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I know a lot of people here in CA have a big 'ol boner for small capacity economy sportbikes and want that to become a new trend here in the US with more choices and whatnot but if you're really trying to move up you might as well just buy a used 600something supersport made in the last decade and call it a day; It'd cost about the same and suspension, power and brakes will all be way better than the new bike.
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Feb 18, 2013 07:43
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Shouting Melon posted:Even having 17"s doesn't necessarily help with tyre choice if they're weird widths. Looking at you, 140/70-17 rear VTR250 wheel.
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Feb 18, 2013 11:24
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Covert Ops Wizard posted:I know a lot of people here in CA have a big 'ol boner for small capacity economy sportbikes and want that to become a new trend here in the US with more choices and whatnot but if you're really trying to move up you might as well just buy a used 600something supersport made in the last decade and call it a day; It'd cost about the same and suspension, power and brakes will all be way better than the new bike. This is pretty much the case. Never again will we have the rad small displacement 400s with top spec suspension that are ultra light 
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Feb 18, 2013 17:27
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Z3n posted:This is pretty much the case. Never again will we have the rad small displacement 400s with top spec suspension that are ultra light Suzuki GSF400 (Bandit 400) weighed in at 370 dry vice 450+ for the current Bandit 650. Put out 59hp at 12K. I strongly considered getting one until reading that they basically barely operate under 10k rpm, redline at 14k. Essentially a bike that stalls out at anything short of blasting down the highway. But still, a decent 400cc that wasn't made solely for recent MSF graduates. I just want something agile and short that handles well, I don't need to hold 110mph on a regular basis, so more small displacement bikes that don't need to have the front end of a nicer bike grafted on and a Penske rear shock to be functional would be nice.
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Feb 18, 2013 17:47
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TapTheForwardAssist posted:Suzuki GSF400 (Bandit 400) weighed in at 370 dry vice 450+ for the current Bandit 650. Put out 59hp at 12K. I strongly considered getting one until reading that they basically barely operate under 10k rpm, redline at 14k. Essentially a bike that stalls out at anything short of blasting down the highway. But still, a decent 400cc that wasn't made solely for recent MSF graduates. The Bandit 400 didn't even fit in that catagory - I was thinking something more along the lines of the RVF400: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_RVF400 Unfortunately, suspension is one of those things that is neglected on anything but the top end supersports and boutique type bikes, so you're pretty much stuck upgrading suspension on any small displacement bike.
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Feb 18, 2013 18:28
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Considering the attitudes of the riders I come across, and the arguments I get into on reddit, I doubt our country will ever accept anything sub 500cc as an actual bike. I catch poo poo from riders anytime I take the 250 out. Of course, non-riders complement me almost everytime, hahaha. No one ever says a thing about my naked FZ6 but the '09 ninja with nice fairings and a bright blue paint job gets a "nice bike" from someone nearly every time. I keep running into older guys, usually cruiser dudes, who enjoy calling my 250 a 'girls bike' but strangely never take up my offer to go ride some country roads.
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Feb 18, 2013 19:05
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Maybe they just don't want to have to drag you out of the bushes after you tried to keep up with them on their 1800cc Harleys.  The funniest part of it all is that a mere 40 years ago, people did cross country trips on 200s and thought nothing of it. Speed limits haven't changed that much in that time...
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Feb 18, 2013 19:10
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Nope but I think the average American male penis size has dropped about 3 inches. I don't mean to single out cruiser riders either, the same attitude exists with sportbike guys. There just seem to be more sportbikers who know the 250 might not be straight line fast, but will keep up with them in those turns.
nsaP fucked around with this message at 19:18 on Feb 18, 2013 |
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Feb 18, 2013 19:16
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Ya'll live in terrible areas. I took my Ninjette to a small local shop to get it inspected and one of the local ancient Harley guys who lived close wandered over to compliment it. "Man that's a neat lookin' bike! And you could teach a lady to ride on it too!" Sure, it was a jab, but a light-hearted one and he genuinely liked the bike. 
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Feb 18, 2013 19:18
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Z3n posted:Maybe they just don't want to have to drag you out of the bushes after you tried to keep up with them on their 1800cc Harleys. 40 years ago the national speed limit was 55 mph, and cars themselves were scary at much above 70 or so for long distances (hello bias ply tires), you actually had to pay attention and drive. These days, you've got 4x as much traffic, interstates are 70-75 in most places and Suzy Soccermom's expedition hybrid can do 90 all day long 4 inchs off your tail as she steers with one finger while staring down at her iphone. She's also really pissed off that you're on her highway. Oh yea, the bikes and riders are also a hundred pounds heavier apiece.
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Feb 18, 2013 19:25
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nsaP posted:Nope but I think the average American male penis size has dropped about 3 inches. I don't mean to single out cruiser riders either, the same attitude exists with sportbike guys. There just seem to be more sportbikers who know the 250 might not be straight line fast, but will keep up with them in those turns. Eh, that's specious reasoning and boils down mostly to the rider anyway. Especially when considering most 4/10ths riding on lovely off camber asphalt and double yellow lines. Kind of like when you see a 150 hp crappy car at track days in the novice group passing 330 hp M3s because the driver is scared and lost. Given a rider of equal skill on both bikes, the archaic 250s aren't going to hang with a proper middleweight bike in anything. They don't have the tire, the suspension, nor much of a weight advantage. Obviously if the guy on the 600 or 750 is just a point and squirter vs the 250 understanding what an apex is and how to hold a line, he can harass him when he parks it mid turn.
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Feb 18, 2013 19:36
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ThatCguy posted:40 years ago the national speed limit was 55 mph, and cars themselves were scary at much above 70 or so for long distances (hello bias ply tires), you actually had to pay attention and drive. These days, you've got 4x as much traffic, interstates are 70-75 in most places and Suzy Soccermom's expedition hybrid can do 90 all day long 4 inchs off your tail as she steers with one finger while staring down at her iphone. She's also really pissed off that you're on her highway. Nah, most speed limits back then were actually higher. The 1974 NMSL law passed to conserve gas set a nationwide max of 55mph, but adoptation of it was pretty hit or miss, and the overall number of states pre-1974 that had speed limit laws at 75mph or higher was pretty much the same as it is now. In fact, in most of the northeast, speed limits are slower now than they were then. People haven't changed since then either, they were just as distracted, bored, not paying attention, drunk, or otherwise incapacitated. For some context, driving drunk back in the day used to get a police escort to get you home safely, not an arrest as a public danger. People have a tendency to really whitewash the gently caress out of how things were back then, they were a lot more laissez-faire than they are these days. Here's a picture for the sake of it:  A car in decent shape back then would just as easily do 75 as they do now. Braking/cornering is another matter, but most highways are drat straight. And the bikes these days are generally lighter for the larger displacement bikes, and make vastly more HP on the smaller displacement bikes. A ninja 250 in 1973 would be insane when compared to something like a CB200, with it's staggering 12 rwhp. quote:Given a rider of equal skill on both bikes, the archaic 250s aren't going to hang with a proper middleweight bike in anything. They don't have the tire, the suspension, nor much of a weight advantage. Obviously if the guy on the 600 or 750 is just a point and squirter vs the 250 understanding what an apex is and how to hold a line, he can harass him when he parks it mid turn. The problem with this is that there is no "equivalent rider". Up until about B class track pace, the bike you are on is pretty much totally irrelevant. Most guys go faster on smaller bikes because they're not terrified of highsiding or simply the experience of opening the throttle in general. Once your throttle seems "boring", then you can start learning how to really get the most out of it when it comes to speed, getting on the gas early, carrying cornerspeed through a corner, etc. Lots of 600 riders never actually learn how to open the throttle while leaned over, let alone learn to maximize drive out from the apex. You put a new rider on a 250 and have them ride for a year and put a new rider on a 600 and have them ride for a year and nearly all riders will be faster and more in control after riding the 250. The 600 rider will be choppy on the throttle, brake early and hard, park it in the corners, and then wait until the bike is nearly upright before pinning it. I've seen it played out over and over in the years I've been helping people learn to ride. Z3n fucked around with this message at 20:11 on Feb 18, 2013 |
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Feb 18, 2013 19:56
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drat, double post.
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Feb 18, 2013 19:59
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Z3n posted:
I must be wired weird. First 10 minutes I was on a bike (gixxer 750 no less), go to corner and it wobbles a bit, first instinct is "gently caress it, POWER" and just roll on through that. Having ridden road bikes for 15+ years, I wonder how much of that transfers over to just saying "keep loving accelerating, rear end in a top hat". I was moreso adressing the specious reasoning I see a bunch about the "250s being faster in the turns" and such. Usually accompanied by the Laguna video of the pro level guy carving up D groupers. Frankly, on the street, you're right, it's all going to be about the same speed, at least from my perspective with lovely asphalt and traffic.
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Feb 18, 2013 20:11
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ThatCguy posted:I must be wired weird. First 10 minutes I was on a bike (gixxer 750 no less), go to corner and it wobbles a bit, first instinct is "gently caress it, POWER" and just roll on through that. Having ridden road bikes for 15+ years, I wonder how much of that transfers over to just saying "keep loving accelerating, rear end in a top hat". There are the rare riders that don't get intimidated by the throttle, usually they have previous experience (usually with dirtbikes, although I've known some fast guys that came up from road bikes or downhill mountain bikes), but the majority of people are scared shitless the first time they experience high levels of lean, and that exacerbates the lack of skill on the controls of a bike. I think the core of this is really not that 250s are faster in the corners, but they're easier in the corners. The quicker speed through the corners is a side effect of that ease of use. From a stats standpoint, they're slower, smaller tires, lovely suspension, but feeling in control is what really determines how fast any rider goes through a corner, and the 250s rarely feel out of shape. They don't feel out of shape so the rider pushes harder, and all of the sudden they're blowing through corners much quicker while not really realizing how much faster they're going. A smaller displacement bike makes that much easier, because your lizard brain isn't spazzing about the feelings of going fast.
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Feb 18, 2013 20:19
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The last few posts in this thread really puts into words my learning experience on my 250. I have zero prior bike experience and my need for going fast has only just showed up in my 24 years of existence. Once in a while I"ll push it just a tad more on a road I've been on over 2 dozen times and I feel a new 'oh poo poo' sensation and stop to ponder what I did wrong. It's a fun learning experience but holy poo poo I don't need to be doing it on the street.
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Feb 18, 2013 20:51
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-Inu- posted:140/70-17's are what will fit on the 300, CBR250R, and Ninja 250R. You can find everything from sport touring (Sport Demon, BT045), to sport (Rosso 2), to track (BT003RS) in that size. Which is great, until Bridgestone decide they don't want to import bike tyres into your country any more, and the wholesaler doesn't stock Sport Demons, and you have to wait three weeks to get something you can actually ride to work on from Michelin. I run Diablo Rossos on my RS125, but drat if that isn't far too much tyre for a commuter.
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Feb 19, 2013 13:26
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Off the top of my head Diablo Rossos are a fairly sporty tyre, how quickly do they wear vs a more sport touring tyre such as the Battlax?
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Feb 19, 2013 14:20
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Shouting Melon posted:Which is great, until Bridgestone decide they don't want to import bike tyres into your country any more, and the wholesaler doesn't stock Sport Demons, and you have to wait three weeks to get something you can actually ride to work on from Michelin. I run Diablo Rossos on my RS125, but drat if that isn't far too much tyre for a commuter.
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Feb 19, 2013 14:57
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ThatCguy posted:Eh, that's specious reasoning and boils down mostly to the rider anyway. Especially when considering most 4/10ths riding on lovely off camber asphalt and double yellow lines. Kind of like when you see a 150 hp crappy car at track days in the novice group passing 330 hp M3s because the driver is scared and lost. I was never assuming riders of equal skills, and you're reading way too much into it. I mean, in my real life, I can hang with people riding bigger bikes when I'm on a 250. ThatCguy posted:I must be wired weird. First 10 minutes I was on a bike (gixxer 750 no less), go to corner and it wobbles a bit, first instinct is "gently caress it, POWER" and just roll on through that. Having ridden road bikes for 15+ years, I wonder how much of that transfers over to just saying "keep loving accelerating, rear end in a top hat". Every time you hop in a thread to poo poo talk 250s you make up arguments in your mind then get upset at them. Before, when people were suggesting a 250 as a good learner bike, all you could read was "start on a 250 or you're going to die" even though literally no one said that. Now, somehow you're reading "250s being faster in the turns", which again no one has said. I said I can keep up with bigger bikes, that's it. It's really just a waste of text responding to you cause I'm sure your reply to this will really be a reply to some idea you already have in your head. ed: pre-emptively took care of that with the ignore list...I forget about it sometimes. nsaP fucked around with this message at 19:24 on Feb 19, 2013 |
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Feb 19, 2013 19:22
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nsaP posted:I was never assuming riders of equal skills, and you're reading way too much into it. I mean, in my real life, I can hang with people riding bigger bikes when I'm on a 250. Our friend here tends to do a post with some semi questionable wording then gets a bit defensive with his reply explaining what he actually meant. Pretty sure he doesn't actually hate 250s, just tired of the starting with a 250 formula. I started on a 900 sport bike when I had the luck of the young and the stupid, now I'm enjoying wringing the ever loving hell out of my 250 and not having to worry about breaking traction on the back wheel during a turn. And now that I think about it, I never had anybody come up and say "oh ho man that's a girl bike right there". The most I ever get are people on cars or scooters say "oh hey nice bike what is it?" "oh it's a 250? I have an R6/R1 and I'm not riding right now because I <insert something stupid sounding>". Ya know, non-riders that wish they were riding. I'd just nod and go on my way.
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Feb 19, 2013 20:16
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nsaP posted:I was never assuming riders of equal skills, and you're reading way too much into it. I mean, in my real life, I can hang with people riding bigger bikes when I'm on a 250. Jesus dude, eat a little fiber.
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Feb 19, 2013 20:16
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Z3n posted:The funniest part of it all is that a mere 40 years ago, people did cross country trips on 200s and thought nothing of it. Speed limits haven't changed that much in that time... blugu64 posted:I rode mine from Dallas to LA and Back, meandering along the way. 5.5k miles, all I needed was tires, oil, and a valve adjustment. I had to replace the cam chain tensioner as it started rattling, but I think that was going to happen anyway.  I need to get off my rear end and sell my broken transalp, and get my Nighthawk 750 running again so I can party with you guys.
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Feb 20, 2013 18:43
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Does anyone here have any parts for 88-07? I need to replace a few things after my crash.
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Mar 5, 2013 18:10
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AncientTV posted:Does anyone here have any parts for 88-07? I need to replace a few things after my crash. I have a ZeroGravity Double bubble and possibly a stock windscreen as well (not sure about the stocker).
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Mar 5, 2013 18:36
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Fortunately my windscreen was spared of the carnage. I suppose I should've stated what I need, specifically a right handlebar, right rearset/peg/brake pedal, front right blinker, and a right mirror. Thanks though!
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Mar 5, 2013 21:28
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You should probably also mention where you're located 
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Mar 6, 2013 07:39
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That's what shipping is for  I already know that there isn't anyone even remotely near me. I'm rescinding the request though, I've had to order them on eBay; can't have the bike out of commission for too long.
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Mar 6, 2013 21:17
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AncientTV posted:That's what shipping is for How much did you end up paying for the right handlbar? I've been needing one of those for a while :-p
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Mar 18, 2013 17:41
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$40 for the riser, bar, throttle tube, and bar-end all together. Probably a little on the high side, but eh.
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Mar 20, 2013 02:26
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Curious if there is a thread for the Ninja 300? I'm buying my first bike and it seems like it's highly recommended for beginner level riders.
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Mar 25, 2013 03:54
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Might as well just use this one.
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Mar 25, 2013 05:09
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Ninja 300 is a good bike from all I've heard and it looks badass but for your first bike you should buy used. A lot of people get rid of their beginner bike pretty quick and while that shouldn't be taken as "get a supersport" you should buy something that won't depreciate much. If you can't get the 300 used (you won't) get the 250, it's a great starter bike.
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Mar 25, 2013 05:23
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What COW said. There's also a very good chance you're going to drop your first bike at some point, and dropping a nice, new 300 wouldn't be too great for your mood or wallet. I'd recommend picking up a ratty 08-12 Ninja 250 (or the earlier ones, if you don't mind the styling), ride it until you're comfortable, and then move on to the 300 when you feel like you're ready. You'll be able to a appreciate it that much more with some riding experience under your belt as well.
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Mar 25, 2013 13:56
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Just passed the MSF course this weekend, pretty sure I'm going with a Ninja 250, GS500 or SV650 when I find a good deal. I asked the instructors for a bike recommendation just to hear their input, and both advised against the Ninja because I would "grow out of it too quickly". From what I've been researching lately I'm pretty sure this won't be the case and will still get a 250 if the opportunity arises. Anyone know why both (very experienced) riders would say this?
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Mar 25, 2013 16:08
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icebeam! posted:Just passed the MSF course this weekend, pretty sure I'm going with a Ninja 250, GS500 or SV650 when I find a good deal. I asked the instructors for a bike recommendation just to hear their input, and both advised against the Ninja because I would "grow out of it too quickly". From what I've been researching lately I'm pretty sure this won't be the case and will still get a 250 if the opportunity arises. Anyone know why both (very experienced) riders would say this? ---- When people say they "got bored" with a 250 what they mean is they got used to it's slow straight line acceleration and wanted more acceleration. If you just want to go fast in a straight line, by all means buy a 600. If you want to actually learn to ride well, smaller bikes with tame, predictable motors are the way to go. It's your first bike, not your last. You should be focused on learning the basics on your first bike: clutch control, throttle control, braking and cornering. A ninja 250 is forgiving of beginner mistakes and great for learning the basics. It's no speed demon in a straight line but you're still quicker than half of the cars on the road, and once you get it up to speed, it's much more agile. I keep up with 600s and 1000s on the backroads because I can run the same pace as them even though they accelerate way faster. 600s are much less forgiving on newbie mistakes and it's a lot harder to learn throttle control on them, since you can barely twist the throttle without breaking laws usually. You can run a ninja250 to redline in 3 gears and you're only going 55. That's the top of 1st for most 600s. People say to buy old ninja 250s because they are great learner bikes and hold their value, so after you spend a season on one learning to ride, you get your money back out of it and buy the bike you really want. Again, if all you want is the thrill of straight line speed then buy whatever and go wring it out on the highway. There's tons of riders like that and you can spot them by their poor low speed control, awkward body positioning and tendencies to crawl thru corners. If your goal is to become a competent rider, small and low power bikes like the ones in the FAQ are the right tool. I'll say too that while a sv650, ninja 500 or ninja 650 are all tame and decent learners, they are heavier. A ninja 250 is 100-120 lbs lighter than any of them and when you're learning that is very nice. It makes low speed maneuvering so much easier. The other bikes are not* particularly hard, compared to like big 800 lb cruisers or something, but they are harder than the 250.
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Mar 25, 2013 16:48
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nsaP posted:I made a post on reddit a while back mostly covering this so I'll just c/p, the OP was asking about getting a 600 but the points stand. I can't actually say why your instructors said that, but I'd think they either believe it, or they've seen enough riders that do "get bored" with the 250 and they know a 500 or 650 isn't a death sentence. The second part is true, while I love the little 250s, a gs500 is a fine starter bike as well. Just a bit heavier. Anyway: Awesome dude, thank you for this. The comment about riding a straight line makes a lot of sense for why people get bored. I definitely want to go the route of learning fundamentals on an easy bike and develop riding skills before getting on anything faster.
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Mar 25, 2013 16:55
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Probably one of the more concise arguments for the small beginner bike side, this should go in the OP.
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Mar 25, 2013 17:05
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AncientTV posted:Probably one of the more concise arguments for the small beginner bike side, this should go in the OP. I edited it in, if there's anything else you guys want let me know!
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Mar 29, 2013 00:50
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An excellent addition to the OP. I've had my Ninja 250 for almost nine months now and I'm still in love. It's faster than any other vehicle I've ever owned and exactly one thousand times more fun. I've come close to dropping it during newbie mistakes, and (thus far) I've been lucky enough to just muscle it upright each time. It's a wonderful little bike. It hates starting in the cold, but I would too so I can't blame it.
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Mar 29, 2013 01:01
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