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robodex posted:That being said, I've always thought "making fun of dead relatives" kind of crosses some sort of line when trolling. I personally cringed when I read the story about how they griefed the dad about his dead son. Griefing people who make memorials or hold funerals in games always walks a fine line. On the one hand, they are letting the game take over such a large part of their lives that they feel it important to turn their personal issues into game elements, which is ridiculous and worthy of grief. On the other, you're definitely crossing the line when you begin griefing someone just for mourning the death of someone close to them, because who wouldn't be sad? If the griefers in that particular situation just creatively blew up or otherwise messed with the space station named after the dead son, I'd probably have no reservations about it. Instead, they went with exploiting the dad's natural feelings about his son's death, which is a boring way to grief along with being a lovely thing to do.
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Mar 27, 2013 19:22
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sleeptalker posted:Griefing people who make memorials or hold funerals in games always walks a fine line. On the one hand, they are letting the game take over such a large part of their lives that they feel it important to turn their personal issues into game elements, which is ridiculous and worthy of grief. On the other, you're definitely crossing the line when you begin griefing someone just for mourning the death of someone close to them, because who wouldn't be sad? Kind of reminds me of the funeral bomb in classic WoW. To explain: On the Illidan realm/server, one of the Horde-side guilds had a member die in real life. They announced on one of the unofficial realm forums that they'd be holding an in-game funeral at one of the dead person's favorite spots to fish in WoW. They said they'd be cool with any Alliance folks showing up, so long as they didn't cause any trouble. That went about as well as can be expected if it's being brought up in a thread like this. And just to add a bit of insult to injury, the mourners supposedly outnumbered the raiders 3:1 and still lost, mainly because so many were dressed up in formal clothing (which, in WoW, tends not to have any stats on it). The community's response.... Well, it can be summed up with the first third or so of the video.
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Mar 27, 2013 19:32
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I was going to write something about griefing but then I decided that arguing about what is acceptable griefing is a really loving stupid derail so can we shut up about it.
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Mar 27, 2013 19:36
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This is my favorite thread in Games and all I have to say on the topic on that guy and his dead son is this: You are not allowed to be outraged/upset at anything that results from you bringing your own personal real life information into a video game you play. It's a video game! It's an artificial environment where everyone has anonymity, and is full of assholes who are not likely to be punished in any meaningful way for breaking social norms. Giving out information that has great personal and emotional value there is equivalent to knowingly rubbing yourself down with a steak and then walking into a cage filled with starving tigers. Again, not saying that guy deserved it. Noone deserves be mocked for such a thing happening to them. But he definitely created the situation that resulted in people mocking his dead son. More griefs, please!
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Mar 27, 2013 20:02
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Sounds like blaming the victim to me. I find griefing funny because it's generally people getting really upset over a video game, which is not serious. Death is pretty serious. On topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s23kS3wS-mM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nasFp1n5BxY Edit: This one is actually pretty good: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpGgubK8kB4 They can be pretty hit or miss, and the guy does the usual Youtube-whoring, but I got a few good chuckles out of it. Tykero fucked around with this message at 20:41 on Mar 27, 2013 |
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Mar 27, 2013 20:26
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Present posted:You are not allowed to be outraged/upset at anything that results from you bringing your own personal real life information into a video game you play. It's a video game! It's an artificial environment where everyone has anonymity, and is full of assholes who are not likely to be punished in any meaningful way for breaking social norms. Giving out information that has great personal and emotional value there is equivalent to knowingly rubbing yourself down with a steak and then walking into a cage filled with starving tigers. This same reasoning can be applied to the entire internet and is kind of wrong on its face. I love griefing and being an rear end in a top hat in video games, because it's really funny to get people super mad at the inherently irrelevant and stupid things that happen in their inherently irrelevant and stupid video games. It's not the same thing at all as mocking a person's grief after they've lost a child, which is thoroughly and indisputably lovely whether it happens in a video game, in an e-mail, over the phone, or face-to-face. It might still get a laugh out of some folks who read about it after the fact, because we are all horrible and sometimes we laugh at the pain of others, but it isn't the same thing as griefing, like, at all. It involves games, sure, but ultimately it's just a lovely thing done by a lovely person to cause human suffering and provoke anger and confusion in someone who did nothing to deserve it. Griefing is just doing things in a game to make other people in that game disproportionately mad at the things happening in the game. If I find out that somebody playing WoW is trans and struggles with depression and I send them a whisper saying, "you're a freak and a disappointment to your parents," I'm not griefing them, I'm just a worthless cowardly fuckhead of a bully with anonymity to shield me from the entirely justified shame and scorn I'd receive if I did the same thing in real life. e: All that said, it's true that there's no generally no reprisal for being a worthless rear end in a top hat on the internet. It is not true that the presence of unchecked worthless assholes automatically renders the victims of their cruelty responsible for said cruelty. This doesn't mean the internet should be heavily regulated to prevent such assholism, just that it's mega hosed up to claim that someone has no right to feel upset or humiliated by things done to them in an online medium. That is outright untrue. Angry Diplomat fucked around with this message at 20:44 on Mar 27, 2013 |
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Mar 27, 2013 20:38
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I'd just like to say that if I were the kind of person who would go for a virtual funeral in a game, I'd much rather have something like that happen, because who gives a poo poo about a funeral in WOW where nothing goes wrong?
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Mar 27, 2013 20:44
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redmercer posted:I'd just like to say that if I were the kind of person who would go for a virtual funeral in a game, I'd much rather have something like that happen, because who gives a poo poo about a funeral in WOW where nothing goes wrong? This, but any sort of meetup in virtual reality. Especially press conferences. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29361_XFpTc
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Mar 27, 2013 20:50
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hey guys can we shut up about acceptable/unacceptable griefing and share some actual griefing? Like this video, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6DB-OEMw2o, more COD4 griefing. There used to be a perk called "Last Stand" which caused you to go down fighting with a pistol when you were killed with anything other than melee/headshot/explosives. You had like fifteen seconds of time to kill dude with your pistol. It's initially annoying because you have a two or three second window of opportunity wherein you're immortal and it's generally enough to kill the guy who shot you if he's close enough. We used to use it on sniping classes and before we set up in a nest, we'd set a claymore covering the entrance to the nest and one claymore that could hit us. When you go down you'd turn yourself towards the claymore, shoot it with your pistol, and commit honorable seppuku, meaning that your opponent didn't get the kill.
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Mar 27, 2013 20:55
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Mystic Mongol posted:Destroy a ship, and half of it becomes ruins and the other half drops as salvage. But no, there's no way to beat money out of people--just as well. Imagine trying to get started in the game if a larger guild could roll in, use it's superior numbers/equipment to win a confrontation, and simply take all of your money. There would be one guild and a server full of victims. Well maybe if I gave you a 1M Isk, then maybe I could "beat out" of you up to $1M isk. I would think that scams would be better and more exciting in that game if there was a real threat of someone hunting you down and taking the money back by force. It wouldn't be easy, you could hide yourself or whatever, but if someone catches you out in some boondocks area, then sure, why not be able to "beat out" of you the total amount of money stolen. It'd add another dimension to the game for sure. And yeah, the more I look at these "scams" in Eve, they are often how banks in the real world work. You can't get the money out until you specifically request it and they are "supposed" to have the money ready for you.
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Mar 27, 2013 21:27
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Angry Diplomat posted:This same reasoning can be applied to the entire internet and is kind of wrong on its face.... it's mega hosed up to claim that someone has no right to feel upset or humiliated by things done to them in an online medium. That is outright untrue. Love the post/user name combo actually. My point is social norms. That guy whose son died. Would it be reasonable for him to go to a college bar on a saturday night and expect people there to behave in a somber and respectful manner around him because of his grief? Would it be reasonable for him to get up in front of a random kindergarten class and talk about how this death has affected him? Would it be reasonable for him to unload all of his stuff onto a bank teller he's never seen before just because the teller greeted him with a "how are you?" No-one in their right mind would do any of those things, because they can understand the probable consequences of these examples. So how about we start taking responsibility for our actions on the internet just like we take responsibility for our actions in our real lives? Anyway, continuing with the Dust 514, the FPS where friendly fire is off, but where you can run blues (friendly players) over with your LAV (jeep) provided you get out of the driver's seat right before impact. One of our corp goons really likes doing this, and has finally pissed someone off hard enough for them to make a  thread on the official dust forumsquote:Is there any real reason for this level of scum to be in the game really. From the very start of the match he was in a LAV running blues over. Queue two pages of dust players mocking him before the mods shut the thread down. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=66095 (need a playstation online account to view)
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Mar 27, 2013 22:05
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Is DotA 2 worth installing if all I plan to do is move into my teammate's lane and claim they need my help?
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Mar 27, 2013 22:21
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no
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Mar 27, 2013 22:24
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Shumagorath posted:Is DotA 2 worth installing if all I plan to do is move into my teammate's lane and claim they need my help? You honestly don't need to do anything at all to grief in Dota 2. Just playing the game will bring grief upon your enemies, your teammates and yourself. Foxhound fucked around with this message at 22:43 on Mar 27, 2013 |
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Mar 27, 2013 22:30
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Captain Capacitor posted:It's what lead to us creating an ad-hoc game called The Postman Dies Twice. Play Shipment, pull pin on grenade whenever you spawn, run to the middle. Can be played regardless of pubbie presence. Martyrdom was especially good on overcrowded point-boosting Shipment servers. People would spawncamp like crazy because with the map so overloaded it was forced to spawn you regardless of enemy placement. This works great until I spawn with a belt full of stun grenades and Martyrdom / Sonic Boom equipped. You'd often get the spawncamper and the person who spawned after you.
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Mar 27, 2013 22:35
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Present posted:Love the post/user name combo actually. My point is social norms. That guy whose son died. Would it be reasonable for him to go to a college bar on a saturday night and expect people there to behave in a somber and respectful manner around him because of his grief? Would it be reasonable for him to get up in front of a random kindergarten class and talk about how this death has affected him? Would it be reasonable for him to unload all of his stuff onto a bank teller he's never seen before just because the teller greeted him with a "how are you?" What probable consequences? Anyone who isn't a broken human being would say something like "I'm sorry for your loss" and move on. Nobody would run up to him and say "Hey, was it something like this?" and dramatically reenact the death of his son in front of him. It would also be perfectly normal for someone to donate money to a school or other public institution to get a building or park bench memorial in the name of their loved one. The point is that that sort of grief is low hanging fruit and kind of lovely in general. It's a lot funnier, for instance, to institute a no-horse law in Age of Wushu and use various abilities to pull people off of their mounts in the middle of a city, shout NO HORSE, and then run off cackling (the sheer confusion and annoyance exhibited by the victims is usually pretty funny). The game even reinforces this because NPCs will run away and yell at people who ride too close to them on horseback. The best part about the NO HORSE thing is that after Groke started doing it, some random pubbies have also apparently joined in on the fun and formed their own NO HORSE enforcers.
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Mar 27, 2013 22:42
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Probable consequences are the college kids cussing him out/mocking him, the little kids in the kindergarten class bawling their eyes out because death is scary, and the bank teller feeling horribly uncomfortable. Not exactly what you want when you're just looking for social support for your horrible tragedy. People are smart enough to know that they need to get that social support from their family and close friends, and no-one else. But this numbskull decided to go get it from a game infamous for its population of anti-social assholes whose greatest pleasures are scams and tear harvesting. He sure thought it through!  Also, NO HORSE is all kinds of hilarious and I wish more Age of Wushu stories would get posted here. I tried reading the MMO thread but the terminology and all other specific game stuff makes it difficult to understand what is going on.
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Mar 27, 2013 23:22
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In more actual griefing and not lovely derail news, the other thing you can do in Dust to irritate pubbies is suicide grenade them, where you hold a grenade till it explodes, which will kill you and sometimes an enemy, it's fairly inconsistent, maybe depending on the pubbies fitting. The fun bit is that if you kill someone, it counts it as a kill for you, even if you don't get points, which keeps the game from cutting down on your earned SP and isk, which it can do if you remain too inactive and stuff to prevent people from idling in games. In other words, the game rewards you for team killing
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Mar 27, 2013 23:31
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Chomp8645 posted:I have a pretty funny story about this in Battlefield: Bad Company (the first one). You see, I have a life long hatred of snipers in video games. Oh sure, I don't mind the ones that actually play the class in a reasonable fashion and support the team, but we all know that most snipers just skulk on a hill ten miles from the fighting trying to get pot shots and generally being worthless. A sequel, most of it featuring the most useless, snipe-iest species in Bad Company history: Port Valdez Hill Wookies https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPGjQOS3WBM This video is the reason teamkills were decreased to -50 from -15, as the points you got from reviving friendlies actually meant revive-griefing was actually profitable. Shumagorath fucked around with this message at 23:46 on Mar 27, 2013 |
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Mar 27, 2013 23:40
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Segmentation Fault posted:This, but any sort of meetup in virtual reality. Especially press conferences. Just FYI, Anshe Chung was the first real millionaire for selling virtual real estate. The bulk of her cash was made from Second Life, but she only went there after raping other online worlds/games for their real estate business. She's a straight up business lady, in the real world too, which makes it even more funny.
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Mar 28, 2013 00:01
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Tykero posted:On topic:
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Mar 28, 2013 02:43
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Vib Rib posted:For a moment I thought this was more of that one guy who could do a really legitimate Hank Hill impersonation. A good celebrity impersonation is better than any soundboard. I'll attest to that. I used to play TF2 on a goon server that had a guy who did a drat good Hank Hill impersonation. It was pretty hilarious to see him go pyro and immolate guys while preaching the benefits of propane and propane excessories.
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Mar 28, 2013 05:23
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Regalingualius posted:Kind of reminds me of the funeral bomb in classic WoW. I still can't feel bad for the funeral people in this story, because what in the holy gently caress were they thinking announcing this on a public forum? Like they might as well have just said "Hey we are having an in game funeral, please come and attack us especially since we'll be wearing mostly statless gear." If they had not announced it it probably would've gone a lot smoother. Yeah people just running along in the zone may have started something, but going on the public forum and asking people to not attack them in a PVP zone was basically an open invitation to do just that.
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Mar 28, 2013 05:38
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Macaluso posted:I still can't feel bad for the funeral people in this story, because what in the holy gently caress were they thinking announcing this on a public forum? Like they might as well have just said "Hey we are having an in game funeral, please come and attack us especially since we'll be wearing mostly statless gear." If they had not announced it it probably would've gone a lot smoother. Yeah people just running along in the zone may have started something, but going on the public forum and asking people to not attack them in a PVP zone was basically an open invitation to do just that. Exactly. Someone in the group had to have, at some point, pointed out how stupid of an idea it was to announce it publicly. Do not count on the kindness of strangers! Especially not in a game, where there is no real retribution. If at any point in your planning session, for anything, you utter something along the lines of "Don't worry guys, we'll just appeal to their sense of decency.", immediately cancel your plans or you are in for a rude awakening.
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Mar 28, 2013 05:53
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Tykero posted:Sounds like blaming the victim to me. I find griefing funny because it's generally people getting really upset over a video game, which is not serious. Death is pretty serious. "Do you snort cocaine?" "No, I sell propane" I loving lost it. Absolutely loving lost it. That was brilliant
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Mar 28, 2013 13:56
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmYceaBKipY Amazing. "Why would I watch a show about ponies?" "What if Bobby got into it?" "If Bobby... I would whoop his rear end!" I agree with the dude who thanks him for sharing his gift with the world.
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Mar 28, 2013 14:11
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Shumagorath posted:A sequel, most of it featuring the most useless, snipe-iest species in Bad Company history: Port Valdez Hill Wookies You forgot the best part. In Bad Company 2, you couldn't decline a revive. That means a friendly medic could revive you over and over in front of enemy fire. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nc4PzX3FzEU While this made for some good griefing, it wasn't nearly as fun as working with your buddies on the enemy team. Snipers in most FPS games are completely useless. They go to the farthest corners of the map to protect their Kill Death Ratio, and end up getting 1-2 kills a round. One of the members of our party would join the other team, and switch squads until he found a lone sniper way out in the boonies. He would then spawn on him as a Medic, and tell the rest of the party (who were still on the enemy team) where to find the sniper. When they arrived, they would quickly kill the sniper, and the fun would begin. After each death, the medic would run in and revive the sniper. The sniper would be able to run a few feet until revive invulnerability wore off. Then the enemy team would quickly kill him again, followed by him getting revived, killed again, revived again, etc. etc. etc. One particularly angry sniper was trapped in revive hell for a good 5-10 minutes as he tried to escape. Every time he was killed, we would pick up his kit, fire off a few rounds and then drop it back at his feet so he would auto-pick it up again when he was revived. After about a minute of doing this, he was completely out of ammo for his main weapon and his pistol, so he wasn't even able to rapidly panic fire hoping to kill one or two of us before he was put down again. At the end of the map he ended up with around 2 kills and 40+ deaths. And sent a lot of hate mail. Raskolnikov2089 fucked around with this message at 16:07 on Mar 28, 2013 |
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Mar 28, 2013 16:03
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It's funny seeing the attitudes towards griefing from players who are, I guess, more or less inherently rear end in a top hat (I'm an rear end in a top hat). A friend of mine was super stoked about BC2 in beta. Within the first ten minutes of playing, my more 'griefy' buddy and I had already decided that the game was a colossal trainwreck of griefing just waiting to happen. His response to us complaining about the ability to gently caress over your own victory points was basically 'people won't do that!'. I tend to simply avoid games that I view as having been poorly designed in terms of compensating for the internet rear end in a top hat factor. It's more entertaining to play a well designed game seriously, and its more fun to grief it in an funny manner when it is well built 
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Mar 28, 2013 17:32
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victrix posted:It's funny seeing the attitudes towards griefing from players who are, I guess, more or less inherently rear end in a top hat (I'm an rear end in a top hat). They really need to test with griefers in mind. Hell even when I was playing seriously I exploited the medic griefing. If a friendly got killed trying to breach a room, I would just keep reviving him from around the corner until the enemies in the room ran out of ammo and had to reload. Friendly would get 4-5 deaths, I would get 2-3 kills when I burst into the room. It's a great mechanic, but I don't think they give much thought to just how game breaking it can be.
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Mar 28, 2013 17:46
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Foxhound posted:You honestly don't need to do anything at all to grief in Dota 2. Just playing the game will bring grief upon your enemies, your teammates and yourself. I just started a week ago, and this is so spot on. People get SO PISSED when they die. Hilariously, incoherently, pissed. And somehow it's always the team's fault. God forbid you play a support and someone dies within a mile of you. The best grief I've seen so far in the single-digit games I've played was a disconnect-fest that left it me and two others against one enemy. I don't remember what he was but we fed him way too much and he ended up as max level while we were maybe half that. He did everything in his power to not win the game, while also stopping us cold from making any progress. It was hilarious but my teammates went from suggesting "please win" to begging and pleading for him to win so we could get our precious battle points.
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Mar 28, 2013 18:11
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Raskolnikov2089 posted:In Bad Company 2, you couldn't decline a revive. I was on the receiving end of this one. I was happily running around in the open when a tank blew me the gently caress up. A friendly nearby medic, hidden behind some invincible cinderblocks, revived me. The tank killed me a 2nd time. Repeat forever. Just let me die!
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Mar 28, 2013 18:17
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Arrath posted:I was on the receiving end of this one. I was happily running around in the open when a tank blew me the gently caress up. A friendly nearby medic, hidden behind some invincible cinderblocks, revived me. The tank killed me a 2nd time. Repeat forever. Why do people put up with that. Why don't they just go play on another server?
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Mar 28, 2013 18:19
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SpookyLizard posted:Why do people put up with that. Why don't they just go play on another server? I did after the 4th revive, actually. It was just a hilarious situation. *boom* ARRRHgh *bzzzzzZAP* You're gonna be alright! *boom* etc
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Mar 28, 2013 18:22
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Knightmare posted:It was hilarious but my teammates went from suggesting "please win" to begging and pleading for him to win so we could get our precious battle points. What's funny about DOTA was that you two could've probably won the game by just avoiding combat with him entirely and constantly push lanes. Counter trolling a troll who doesn't push by winning the game is easy in that game. Like really easy especially if you out number him. The whole game is a troll. Buckwheat Sings fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Mar 28, 2013 |
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Mar 28, 2013 18:30
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Buckwheat Sings posted:The whole game is a troll. Or when Techies comes in anyway. For the uninitiated: Goblin Techies is probably the most annoying character in Dota. All of his abilities are basically the height of "I want to piss you off". His main gimmick is that he can lay dozens of land mines around the map, which do substantial damage and last a very long time (I think forever on the main mines). The landmines are invisible, however, which means that unless you have some invisibility detection you're going to get blown up. Another one of his abilities is a statis trap. Basically, when you trip it the trap waits for a second or two and then activates, stunning every enemy in the area. These have a limited life time but they can last up to like 5 minutes I think. His third ability is called Suicide squad, and it basically makes it so you never get gold from him. When he activates it, he basically goes self destruct like some Pokemon do, killing himself and inflicting massive damage on anyone in the area. The best part about it though, is that it counts as a "deny" for him - basically you get zero gold from his death, and massively reduced experience. Oh, and he respawns in half the time of if he normally dies. This can be very funny if you pair him with Tiny (another hero), who has an ability that lets him throw random people at an enemy. You just let Tiny throw Techies at someone, Techies suicides, and the dude probably dies. His ultimate is a triggered mine, where it's placed like the landmine is but you can make it go off whenever you want. It also does a lot of damage, but it also has twice the explosion radius of a normal landmine and it can be placed at a much greater distance. Overall, his abilities are annoying, but if you have invisibility detection reasonably trivial to disarm. Creeps however aren't as smart as you are, so if you push Techies' team into their base, he can basically turtle indefinitely, which makes him super annoying to play against. He's also probably the last hero Valve will port over into Dota 2 for these reasons.
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Mar 28, 2013 18:47
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SpookyLizard posted:Why do people put up with that. Why don't they just go play on another server? If I recall correctly, revives like suicides would temporarily disable your menu button. It's the same in Battlefield 3, if I commit suicide to respawn elsewhere, and immediately open the menu to change my settings, the game pulls you out of the menu so you can see the "Bad Luck" dogtag. So with fast enough revives, he would never get the chance to exit the server unless he closed the entire game and reloaded. Plus there's the rage factor. He's pissed about losing his dogtags 10 times in a row, so he wants to eventually get revenge.
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Mar 28, 2013 19:04
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Raskolnikov2089 posted:If I recall correctly, revives like suicides would temporarily disable your menu button. It's the same in Battlefield 3, if I commit suicide to respawn elsewhere, and immediately open the menu to change my settings, the game pulls you out of the menu so you can see the "Bad Luck" dogtag. Oh wow. Ok few things would piss me off about a game but being forced into a revive trap which actively closes my menu and prevents me from disconnecting from the server would have me uninstalling the first time it happened to me. I'd be calling the company demanding a refund or something, how can you be so abysmally stupid as to give any game a way to pull a player out of menus.
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Mar 28, 2013 19:51
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Raskolnikov2089 posted:If I recall correctly, revives like suicides would temporarily disable your menu button. It's the same in Battlefield 3, if I commit suicide to respawn elsewhere, and immediately open the menu to change my settings, the game pulls you out of the menu so you can see the "Bad Luck" dogtag. Hahahaha holy poo poo what, that's amazing
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Mar 28, 2013 21:02
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TheSpiritFox posted:Oh wow. Ok few things would piss me off about a game but being forced into a revive trap which actively closes my menu and prevents me from disconnecting from the server would have me uninstalling the first time it happened to me. I'd be calling the company demanding a refund or something, how can you be so abysmally stupid as to give any game a way to pull a player out of menus. It's the same in Battlefield 3
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Mar 28, 2013 21:07
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That's a common problem in a ton of pc games. I don't know if it's for technical reasons, or is part of a common design philosophy, but having to use the task manager or alt F4 to exit a program exactly when you want to is pretty stupid.
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Mar 28, 2013 21:44
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