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RichieWolk posted:In places with medical/legal marijuana it is harder for minors to buy a pipe than it is to get the actual drugs because the headshop owners will card you. You'd have to bribe someone to buy a glass pipe for you to use the drugs you had no problems obtaining. You don't need ID to get an apple or soda can. (Don't use a soda can, kids.)
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Mar 29, 2013 01:10
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Warchicken posted:Before anyone submits any argument of any kind against marijuana, they should have to explain why it doesn't apply to alcohol as well because gently caress me I am tired of bringing out that argument. But it applies to every single point ever raised ever about marijuana prohibition. More adolescents would smoke? Well, do more adolescents drink? It is way easier for underage kids to get alcohol right now as it is legal than it was during prohibition. Even though it is easy to get marijuana it is even easier to get alcohol because you can convince basically anyone to go buy you some Smirnoff from a store, rather than finding a dealer, which believe it or not is a lot harder for most high school kids than finding someone with an older sibling who will buy them a handle or two.
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Mar 29, 2013 02:11
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It is harder, but not as much as you think. Maybe it depends where you live.
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Mar 29, 2013 02:13
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OnceIWasAnOstrich posted:It is way easier for underage kids to get alcohol right now as it is legal than it was during prohibition. Even though it is easy to get marijuana it is even easier to get alcohol because you can convince basically anyone to go buy you some Smirnoff from a store, rather than finding a dealer, which believe it or not is a lot harder for most high school kids than finding someone with an older sibling who will buy them a handle or two. My evidence is only anecdotal but it was way way easier to get weed than alcohol in high school and that was the case for everyone I knew. I think you're misinformed about how easy it is for kids to find weed dealers. Surely there are a few in every school.
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Mar 29, 2013 02:18
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the black husserl posted:My evidence is only anecdotal but it was way way easier to get weed than alcohol in high school and that was the case for everyone I knew. I had the same experience, though I think part of it is just the physical nature of marijuana vs. alcohol. It's a lot easier to discreetly hand someone an eighth than a fifth.
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Mar 29, 2013 02:54
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the black husserl posted:My evidence is only anecdotal but it was way way easier to get weed than alcohol in high school and that was the case for everyone I knew. Depends on where you live. In a rural wet county, that isn't allowing MMJ, its going to be easier to get booze. In an urban dry county, especially in a state that is heavily regulating liquor, its going to be easier to get weed. When dealing in small amounts, i.e. what you'd buy or sell to a high schooler, weed definitely is more concealable and portable so its probably going to be easier all things being equal.
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Mar 29, 2013 03:00
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OnceIWasAnOstrich posted:It is way easier for underage kids to get alcohol... What about tobacco? Care to explain why more kids seem able to get ahold of cannabis than tobacco? According to CDC figures: quote:Current marijuana use among high school students was more common than current cigarette use (23 percent compared to 18 percent) http://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2012/p0607_yrb_telebriefing.html Red_Mage posted:Depends on where you live. In a rural wet county, that isn't allowing MMJ, its going to be easier to get booze. In an urban dry county, especially in a state that is heavily regulating liquor, its going to be easier to get weed. Have you got some evidence that it's easier for children to get cannabis in states that have passed medical marijauan laws? quote:the data are very reassuring that in almost all cases medical marijuana legalized for adults does not lead to an increase in recreational use of marijuana by adolescents.” - California Pediatrician, 2011 http://www.aap-ca.org/news/caPed/California%20Pediatrician%20-%20Winter%202011.pdf quote:we find very little evidence that passing MMLs [Medical Marijuana Laws] increases reported use, among adolescents or any other age group. - Annals of Epidemiology, 2012 http://www.medicine.mcgill.ca/epidemiology/harper/web/papers_files/Harper-Ann%20Epidemiol-2012.pdf KingEup fucked around with this message at 03:10 on Mar 29, 2013 |
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Mar 29, 2013 03:03
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I think you're making an unfounded assumption here. Just because somebody is able to get tobacco doesn't mean they're interested in using it. I knew a fair amount of smokers in high school, but a lot more potheads.
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Mar 29, 2013 03:07
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Does the CDC really not have data on alcohol use amongst teenagers? Because that's the relevant comparison. edit: http://www.cdc.gov/healthyyouth/yrbs/pdf/us_alcohol_trend_yrbs.pdf 38.7% had at least one drink in the last 30 days in 2011 compared to 23.1% for marijuana
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Mar 29, 2013 03:10
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Xandu posted:Just because somebody is able to get tobacco doesn't mean they're interested in using it. Right, so there is no relationship between accessibility and how many teens will use cannabis.
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Mar 29, 2013 03:12
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Perhaps. I think marijuana these days is a lot more appealing than tobacco, which has acquired a negative reputation for a lot of people. So having easy access to tobacco might not increase use, but it might for marijuana. I'll check the studies you posted above, though.
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Mar 29, 2013 03:13
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Xandu posted:I think marijuana these days is a lot more appealing than tobacco, which has acquired a negative reputation for a lot of people. I wonder if it would have acquired such a negative reputation if it had been illegal for as long as cannabis and was sold on the street without health warnings (like cannabis). Xandu posted:Does the CDC really not have data on alcohol use amongst teenagers? Because that's the relevant comparison. Not really, alcohol consumption is heavily promoted and neither tobacco nor cannabis is. Xandu posted:Perhaps. Not perhaps: 
KingEup fucked around with this message at 03:32 on Mar 29, 2013 |
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Mar 29, 2013 03:19
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KingEup posted:Not really, alcohol consumption is heavily promoted and neither tobacco nor cannabis is. Cannabis use is not really that stigmatized. Nowadays I'd say it even has less of a stigma among young people than tobacco (though all of the potheads I knew in high school smoked cigarettes too). Saying that legalization will make it harder for kids to access is frankly just bullshit. Marijuana is simpler to make yourself than alcohol, and plenty of kids already grow it. The point isn't that legalization makes it harder for them to get, it's that they can get it anyway so its a moot point.
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Mar 29, 2013 03:41
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ChipNDip posted:Saying that legalization will make it harder for kids to access is frankly just bullshit. Marijuana is simpler to make yourself than alcohol, and plenty of kids already grow it. The point isn't that legalization makes it harder for them to get, it's that they can get it anyway so its a moot point. No, the point is that legalisation (if done properly) may increase the perceived risk of using cannabis and therefore result in less cannabis use.
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Mar 29, 2013 03:46
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KingEup posted:
Availability is essentially static in that graph, so I don't see how we can determine what would happen if marijauna was suddenly 'very east to get' for 10-20%+ more teenagers (the availability percentage is significantly lower for 8th/10th graders). Not that I really care, I used marijuana fairly often in high school and turned out fine. edit: http://www.monitoringthefuture.org/data/12data/fig12_1.pdf Use and availability seem somewhat correlated for 8th/10th graders.
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Mar 29, 2013 03:56
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ChipNDip posted:Marijuana is simpler to make yourself than alcohol, and plenty of kids already grow it. This makes no sense. You can't magic seeds out of nowhere.
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Mar 29, 2013 04:51
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KingEup posted:
Wow, Berry, that sure is some top shelf science you got goin on there. Some pre-kindergartners didn't pan out as well as you thought they should and some of them used pot as teenagers. Could there be other factors that contribute to how their lives turned out such as abuse, alienation or poverty? Who cares! Certainly not Dr Liz Berry, noted New York psychiatrist. I mean, just look at all these urban youths smoking blunts! Any teacher can tell you that's no way to succeed!
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Mar 29, 2013 06:10
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I went to practically every class, rehearsal and performance of my entire master's degree stoned as loving poo poo. Result? Getting my doctorate. I really hate that argument. Weed does not make people failures.
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Mar 29, 2013 06:28
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Install Gentoo posted:This makes no sense. You can't magic seeds out of nowhere. You can magic them off the internet. 
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Mar 29, 2013 06:58
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Install Gentoo posted:This makes no sense. You can't magic seeds out of nowhere. You don't even need seeds. Go to that one lazy kid's house that throws his seeds out the back porch and clip a branch off one of the small plants that invariably dot his yard. Stick that poo poo into dirt and you're good.
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Mar 29, 2013 07:56
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ChipNDip posted:Marijuana is simpler to make yourself than alcohol, and plenty of kids already grow it. You know that putting a bunch of sugar, yeast and water in a bucket will give you drinkable if somewhat awful alcohol? That's what we did when we were kids here.
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Mar 29, 2013 08:40
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Kemper Boyd posted:You know that putting a bunch of sugar, yeast and water in a bucket will give you drinkable if somewhat awful alcohol? That's what we did when we were kids here. I knew people who would ferment apple cider, but they didn't really know what they were doing so the outcome, while alcoholic, was loving vile.
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Mar 29, 2013 09:00
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RichieWolk posted:You can magic them off the internet. That's not "making weed" that's buying it. Aliquid posted:You don't even need seeds. Go to that one lazy kid's house that throws his seeds out the back porch and clip a branch off one of the small plants that invariably dot his yard. Stick that poo poo into dirt and you're good. That's not "making weed" that's hoping there's someone in town stupid enough to have done such a thing and then replanting it. Kemper Boyd posted:You know that putting a bunch of sugar, yeast and water in a bucket will give you drinkable if somewhat awful alcohol? That's what we did when we were kids here. Meanwhile this, anyone can do. Sometimes you don't even need to find yeast itself, just certain kinds of bread you rip up in chunks.
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Mar 29, 2013 13:27
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Install Gentoo posted:That's not "making weed" that's buying it. What? In both cases it is buy a thing that is not the thing you want in the the end ----> work on thing ----> produce new thing. Are you arguing that since it's easier to find sugar and yeast it's easier to make alcohol? Cause sure, yeah, it's harder to find seeds, but if you're already smoking weed, I'm sure you've bought a bag with seeds in it already.
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Mar 29, 2013 14:15
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SeraphSlaughter posted:Are you arguing that since it's easier to find sugar and yeast it's easier to make alcohol? Cause sure, yeah, it's harder to find seeds, but if you're already smoking weed, I'm sure you've bought a bag with seeds in it already. It's not just easier to find the ingredients but also easier and/or quicker to make alcohol even with all of the ingredients.
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Mar 29, 2013 14:44
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Uh yeah alcohol is definitely easier to make than it is to grow weed. You literally don't need to do anything except buy some apple juice, grape juice, cider, honey, basically anything with a high sugar content from a grocery store and some yeast. And then you just let it sit and boom you have an alcoholic beverage that might not even taste that bad. It's also much more discreet and requires no equipment other than a bucket.
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Mar 29, 2013 14:47
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SeraphSlaughter posted:What? In both cases it is buy a thing that is not the thing you want in the the end ----> work on thing ----> produce new thing. Are you arguing that since it's easier to find sugar and yeast it's easier to make alcohol? Cause sure, yeah, it's harder to find seeds, but if you're already smoking weed, I'm sure you've bought a bag with seeds in it already. Yes I am arguing that the fact you can make alcohol with nothing more than time and basic food items makes it easier to make alcohol then to grow weed. People whip up bootleg "wine" in prisons of all places, that's how easy it is.
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Mar 29, 2013 15:02
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Butt Soup Barnes posted:Uh yeah alcohol is definitely easier to make than it is to grow weed. You literally don't need to do anything except buy some apple juice, grape juice, cider, honey, basically anything with a high sugar content from a grocery store and some yeast. And then you just let it sit and boom you have an alcoholic beverage that might not even taste that bad. It's also much more discreet and requires no equipment other than a bucket. I should have said that its easier to grow decent marijuana than to make decent alcohol yourself. Sure, plenty of people make good homebrew, but fermenting grape juice with bread yeast is going to taste real lovely.
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Mar 29, 2013 15:04
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In my experience as a high/middle schooler, the younger you were the harder it was to get alcohol, but you could get weed whenever. So at around 11th grade when people started looking plausibly adult and you had more friends in college the balance tipped towards alcohol being easier to get. All of this changes, of course, if your parents don't monitor their liquor cabinet.
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Mar 29, 2013 15:05
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ChipNDip posted:I should have said that its easier to grow decent marijuana than to make decent alcohol yourself. Sure, plenty of people make good homebrew, but fermenting grape juice with bread yeast is going to taste real lovely. This is also not true. Decent marijuana requires a ton of time, constant attention, and expensive equipment. You can make a decent homebrew with a $30 malt extract kit, a few buckets, a big pot, and a $10 bottle capper. It also only takes a few hours to brew, and then you just let it sit for a few weeks and bottle it. As someone who has done both, basic homebrewing is many, many times easier than growing good weed. Butt Soup Barnes fucked around with this message at 15:09 on Mar 29, 2013 |
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Mar 29, 2013 15:06
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Install Gentoo posted:That's not "making weed" that's buying it. Uhh, how else do you procure goods in the US? I mean there are tons of places you can order cannabis seeds on the internet if you want to grow your own plants. Pre-feminized, auto-flowering, you name it the internet has it. Seriously, with google and a few pre-paid debit cards, I could have everything necessary to grow a couple high-yielding plants shipped directly to my front door in a matter of days. It's stupid easy to get drugs today in the US. I get a raging irony-boner when I think about how many government employees involuntarily commit drug trafficking felonies every day. 
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Mar 29, 2013 19:46
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RichieWolk posted:Uhh, how else do you procure goods in the US? You know, actually making a thing. Instead of buying it.
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Mar 29, 2013 19:49
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It's still tough to get seeds without access to a dealer of some sort, it may change when states legalize. Speaking of which does anyone from Maine/knowledgeable about Maine want to speak about this http://www.seacoastonline.com/articles/20130328-NEWS-130329728? How likely is this to pass?
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Mar 29, 2013 20:06
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December Octopodes posted:It's still tough to get seeds without access to a dealer of some sort, it may change when states legalize. Highly likely. Maine has been out front on almost all marijuana developments over the past decade, and I think we feel a bit chuffed that CO and WA beat us to the legalization punch. It will either be passed through the state house, or put up for a referendum this year or next.
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Mar 29, 2013 20:29
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Install Gentoo posted:You know, actually making a thing. Instead of buying it. Using this logic no one has ever made weed, they just bought/found seeds and planted them. No one is synthesizing cannabis dna from scratch. You are "just buying" the homebrew alcohol too because you bought the yeast and sugar. This argument makes no sense.
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Mar 29, 2013 20:47
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Install Gentoo posted:You know, actually making a thing. Instead of buying it. "If you wish to grow some killer buds from scratch, you must first invent the universe."  Unless you mean people should go foraging for wild marijuana plants, buying the seeds and growing your own plant from start to finish is about as close to "making your own" as cannabis gets. You start with the same components as everyone else - light, water, seed, nutrients, etc. - but how you combine them directly affects the end product. There are infinite variations of tastes, effects, and colors from the different growing methods and strains. December Octopodes posted:It's still tough to get seeds without access to a dealer of some sort, it may change when states legalize. You need to get someone under 25 to teach you how to use google better because it's dead simple to find a place that has no moral qualms about supplying stealthy seeds.
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Mar 29, 2013 21:14
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Butt Soup Barnes posted:Uh yeah alcohol is definitely easier to make than it is to grow weed. You literally don't need to do anything except buy some apple juice, grape juice, cider, honey, basically anything with a high sugar content from a grocery store and some yeast. And then you just let it sit and boom you have an alcoholic beverage that might not even taste that bad. It's also much more discreet and requires no equipment other than a bucket. it's easier to make crappy alcohol than it is to make good weed, for sure, but it's also easier to make crappy weed than good booze. Depending on climate, you can literally stick seeds in the ground, do absolutely nothing, come back in 4 months and have a shitload of weed. Yes, it will be seedy and probably not very potent, but prison wine is also really lovely. Install Gentoo posted:That's not "making weed" that's buying it.
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Mar 29, 2013 21:19
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spengler posted:
Alcohol comes from things that contain sugar.
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Mar 29, 2013 21:31
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On the subject of lovely prohibitionist arguments I just have to post this, it's been on my mind for the past couple weeks because I really think this might be the single worst/most misinformed op-ed I have ever read out of tens of thousands. Not only is this guy rabidly anti-pot but is also ardently pro-tobacco and constantly tries to downplay the risks of tobacco on his radio show. Thousands or possibly over a million people listen to this rear end in a top hat's advise on a regular basis, so with any luck some lucky souls will eschew the demon weed in favor of lung cancer and emphysema. quote:Marijuana: Another Gift of the Left to America's Youth MaxxBot fucked around with this message at 21:36 on Mar 29, 2013 |
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Mar 29, 2013 21:32
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Jeffrey posted:Using this logic no one has ever made weed, they just bought/found seeds and planted them Yes, bro, that is the point. Like literally the point. RichieWolk posted:"If you wish to grow some killer buds from scratch, you must first invent the universe." You're still not understanding that you can make alcohol just about anywhere you have common foods to ferment versus planting and growing a marijuana plant to maturity. spengler posted:This is a completely insane argument. Alcohol comes from plants; weed comes from a plant. Plants grow from seeds. There is literally no difference. You're not really understanding why alcohol is a whole lot harder to suppress than marijuana is, do you? Since you can make alcohol out of almost any crop you'd otherwise eat versus marijuana being a specific plant. computer parts posted:Alcohol comes from things that contain sugar. Exactly.
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Mar 29, 2013 21:51
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