|
404GoonNotFound posted:Hm, I am sitting on a couple credits until my 3 Cheap Months are up... There is a minor character named Richard and everytime he popped up I kept thinking "WHAT COULD BE MORE IMPORTANT THAN YOUR FAMILY?"
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2013 03:33
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2024 17:07 |
|
|
Zore posted:Malcolm is only special if he is normal, and the last thing Harry needs is more of a special background considering who his mother and grandfather are. And the starborn stuff. And the vampire half-brother. I don't think that having him die in some special way detracts from him as a character though. Making him more than normal would be bad but having him used as a prop in a ritual or something I don't think would take away from him.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2013 06:47
|
|
|
So I just started reading Storm Front. I'm about 4 chapters in, so far I am enjoying it though I am a little put off by the casual sexism. Is that, like, a recurring thing with these books? Because it really puts me off, so much so that it makes me not want to read on.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2013 09:43
|
|
|
electricsugar posted:So I just started reading Storm Front. I'm about 4 chapters in, so far I am enjoying it though I am a little put off by the casual sexism. Butcher becomes a much better author as the series progresses. There are still some instances that left me scratching my head, but I don't recall anything flatout offensive in later books.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2013 12:06
|
|
|
electricsugar posted:So I just started reading Storm Front. I'm about 4 chapters in, so far I am enjoying it though I am a little put off by the casual sexism. It kind of depends on what you're specifically being put off by. Four chapters in makes me think that it might be Harry's little talk about how it totally has to be a woman killer due to emotions and poo poo, since I recall that took place pretty early on. If that's it, then I don't recall much quite like it in later books. I'd say more about it but that'd require spoiling you. Keep in mind Storm Front (and Fool Moon) are the worst books in the series. SerSpook fucked around with this message at 12:36 on Mar 29, 2013 |
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2013 12:33
|
|
|
electricsugar posted:So I just started reading Storm Front. I'm about 4 chapters in, so far I am enjoying it though I am a little put off by the casual sexism. Depends on exactly what you're talking about /find offensive. If it's the dislikeable female characters, yeah that gets dramatically better. If it's Harry insisting on always holding the door for women, or the occasional painful bit where Dresden talks about how hot a female character is, no that stays constant. There are some parts of the first book that yeah dramatically improve. There are other parts that never really do. I'm still a huge fan of the series despite its flaws; compared to the constant rapefest that is a lot of fantasy these days, the Dresden books are relatively gender-awesome.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2013 13:36
|
|
|
electricsugar posted:So I just started reading Storm Front. I'm about 4 chapters in, so far I am enjoying it though I am a little put off by the casual sexism. It sort of peaks at the pornstar vampires book, I forget which one that is.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2013 14:46
|
|
computer parts posted:It sort of peaks at the pornstar vampires book, I forget which one that is. Book six Blood Rites. Which is one of my favorites. There is a big (not so big in this one) furry reason why. why oh WHY fucked around with this message at 15:57 on Mar 29, 2013 |
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2013 15:48
|
|
|
why oh WHY posted:Book six Blood Rites. Which is one of my favorites. It's not a furry pornstar, though. e: Butcher as a whole gets less sexist as the series progresses, but Harry doesn't. He eventually overcomes his 'chivalric' tendencies, and stops being so much of an asshat in general. That said, if it puts you off, I don't really blame you for choosing not to read. I almost put the book down around halfway through Storm Front, but decided to power through. I'm glad I did. Saith fucked around with this message at 18:15 on Mar 29, 2013 |
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2013 18:11
|
|
|
Hieronymous Alloy posted:Depends on exactly what you're talking about /find offensive. If it's the dislikeable female characters, yeah that gets dramatically better. If it's Harry insisting on always holding the door for women, or the occasional painful bit where Dresden talks about how hot a female character is, no that stays constant. Thanks for the feedback guys. The particular line that made me cringe was something along the lines of: "Only a pure focus of sustained hate could have pulled off this spell. So that means it must be a woman." "Why's that Dresden?" "Because only a woman could hate like that. Women hate better than men do." or something like that. I was concerned at this point that this kind of gender-stereotyping and woman-hating would become a recurring theme. That being said, I'll try to stick with it because I did really enjoy those first few chapters, and I believe you folks that it does get better. electricsugar fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Mar 29, 2013 |
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2013 18:57
|
|
|
electricsugar posted:Thanks for the feedback guys. While I'll completely agree that it's a stereotype, I wouldn't call that passage "woman-hating". It gets brought up in Storm Front a couple of times that (at least in the opinion of Dresden/Butcher) women experience emotions with more clarity than men do. That cuts both ways, for both hate and love. This probably isn't the thread to have a full on gender studies conversation, but this is just my two cents.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2013 19:07
|
|
|
electricsugar posted:Thanks for the feedback guys. Feel free to post about with your thoughts on each book as you finish, that's one of the best part about these threads. We try to be really good about spoilers around here.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2013 20:15
|
|
|
why oh WHY posted:Book six Blood Rites. Which is one of my favorites. It also leads to Harry later mentioning "that coven of pornstar witches" and his newly-minted apprentice being utterly dumbfounded.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2013 20:31
|
|
|
Personally, I felt that Blood Rites was the only Dresden book I felt legitimately uncomfortable reading, and that was mainly because of the later half, what with how in-your-face Butcher is with the villain literally being a rapist and all.
|
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2013 21:08
|
|
|
electricsugar posted:Thanks for the feedback guys. I'm pretty sure Butcher intends to make it obvious that Dresden has some biases and issues with ladies. He's rather a flawed protagonist in that respect.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2013 22:17
|
|
|
ConfusedUs posted:I loved the book, but it has one major fault: it handles relationships/sex worse than Dresden ever has.
|
|
#
?
Mar 29, 2013 23:13
|
|
|
Be warned though the latest Dresden book gets kind of creepy at points in regard to sex and Harry. I guess it makes sense story wise but that doesn't make it any less creepy.
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2013 05:10
|
|
|
Len posted:Be warned though the latest Dresden book gets kind of creepy at points in regard to sex and Harry. I guess it makes sense story wise but that doesn't make it any less creepy. Maybe I have a different metric of "creepy" but I don't recall much (if any) creepy sex in Cold Days. (I may be forgetting something though). I seem to remember the book going out of its way to avoid creepiness.
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2013 06:21
|
|
|
jivjov posted:Maybe I have a different metric of "creepy" but I don't recall much (if any) creepy sex in Cold Days. (I may be forgetting something though). I seem to remember the book going out of its way to avoid creepiness. Pretty sure he's referring to Harry's rapey urges due to the Winter Knight mantle.
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2013 06:23
|
|
|
SerSpook posted:Pretty sure he's referring to Harry's rapey urges due to the Winter Knight mantle. Ahh, that. Right. Yeah, I honestly found that unsettling, but not creepy because it was result of an outside force messing with Harry's head, not Harry himself
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2013 06:33
|
|
|
jivjov posted:Ahh, that. Right. Yeah, I honestly found that unsettling, but not creepy because it was result of an outside force messing with Harry's head, not Harry himself It helped that Harry himself called it out as being hosed up.
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2013 06:40
|
|
|
King of Solomon posted:It helped that Harry himself called it out as being hosed up. Along with everyone else. Having a murderboner (literally) is almost solely responsible for him getting shoved back into "wait and see" territory with Murphy, for example.
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2013 09:35
|
|
404GoonNotFound posted:It also leads to Harry later mentioning "that coven of pornstar witches" and his newly-minted apprentice being utterly dumbfounded.
|
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2013 14:12
|
|
|
Tunicate posted:I'm pretty sure Butcher intends to make it obvious that Dresden has some biases and issues with ladies. He's rather a flawed protagonist in that respect.
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2013 20:45
|
|
|
Cicero posted:I think that this is true, and also it's done so that the target demographic can empathize with Dresden. Dresden is an amazing piece of nerdy fanwankery. He has all the stereotypical nerd traits but still manages to be awesome. Butcher knows his target audience really well.
|
|
#
?
Mar 30, 2013 20:50
|
|
|
Putting aside Harry's views on women specifically, I love the way Butcher writes strong female characters. Mab, Leah, Lash and Lara are probably some of my favorite characters in the series. When he needs one of his female characters to be weak or vulnerable for the narrative it comes across as forced though.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2013 08:18
|
|
|
Thought I'd look up thegreywalker books because they came so highly recommended, saw that Audible had an extra three credits sale. Books 1-3 aren't available in my region, but books 4-6 are. Thanks, I think.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2013 09:04
|
|
|
electricsugar posted:The particular line that made me cringe was something along the lines of: "Only a pure focus of sustained hate could have pulled off this spell. So that means it must be a woman." I actually think that this was a clumsy attempt to show that Dresden had some unfortunate views of women, rather than an attempt to express the author's views. My main evidence comes later in the book when it turns out that he was just plain wrong. The villain was a man. Edit: added spoiler tags.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2013 12:57
|
|
|
Also with the pornstar storyline he just took the job as a favour and didn't really care about the whole naked lady aspect. His normal friends calling him a creep and a perv for signing up for the job and it was mostly a bunch of normal, everyday people instead of super sexy awesome wankbait. When he meets the succubus he isn't thinking "hell yeah time to get my bone on" he is terrified because he can tell he is almost entirely under her power within seconds and he is about to have a very bad time.
|
|
#
?
Mar 31, 2013 13:43
|
|
|
jivjov posted:Ahh, that. Right. Yeah, I honestly found that unsettling, but not creepy because it was result of an outside force messing with Harry's head, not Harry himself Honestly I think the biggest issue with that is that Butcher didn't do enough to emphasize how horrified Harry was to be thinking that. He's all what the gently caress at himself earlier on, but by the time he's actually catching himself wanting to rape Molly and Sarissa he's way too matter of fact about it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2013 00:07
|
|
|
Donraj posted:Honestly I think the biggest issue with that is that Butcher didn't do enough to emphasize how horrified Harry was to be thinking that. He's all what the gently caress at himself earlier on, but by the time he's actually catching himself wanting to rape Molly and Sarissa he's way too matter of fact about it. Yeah, I would be much more accepting of the creepiness if he followed it up as you said.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2013 02:14
|
|
|
Snipee posted:Yeah, I would be much more accepting of the creepiness if he followed it up as you said. I suppose you could argue that it makes sense because by that point Dresden knows the mantle is messing with his head and he's trying to just stay focused on resisting it and doesn't want to waste energy on mentally castigating himself, but even if it's justifiable it's still the least best way to go about it. Dresden's compulsive need to protect women and children (which Molly still is to him on some level) is a huge part of his character. When he realized what he was thinking by all rights he should have been fighting the urge to vomit and/or considering putting a bullet in his head, because that poo poo's way beyond catching himself thinking about hurting Bob or Toot Toot.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2013 09:02
|
|
|
Cold days stuff. I agree with you. But on the other hand, Harry didn't really had time during Cold Days to sit down for a moment and have a proper freat out.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2013 10:30
|
|
|
I think we should be pretty much done with spoiler tagging the latest book. It's been a while now.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2013 18:40
|
|
|
Donraj posted:I suppose you could argue that it makes sense because by that point Dresden knows the mantle is messing with his head and he's trying to just stay focused on resisting it and doesn't want to waste energy on mentally castigating himself, but even if it's justifiable it's still the least best way to go about it. Dresden's compulsive need to protect women and children (which Molly still is to him on some level) is a huge part of his character. When he realized what he was thinking by all rights he should have been fighting the urge to vomit and/or considering putting a bullet in his head, because that poo poo's way beyond catching himself thinking about hurting Bob or Toot Toot.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2013 19:03
|
|
|
GreenNight posted:I think we should be pretty much done with spoiler tagging the latest book. It's been a while now. Someone recently posted that they are starting the series and a few people requested they come back and post their thoughts on each book. When that happens we try to be considerate and use spoilers.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2013 19:45
|
|
|
MasterFugu posted:Dresden's entire shtick kinda revolves around being hardheaded and resistant to mental hijinks. besides, all the Winter Mantle stuff kinda becomes small potatoes past the first third of the book. Imagine how crazy the next book is going to be when we see how Molly behaves as the Winter Lady.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2013 20:20
|
|
|
GreenNight posted:I think we should be pretty much done with spoiler tagging the latest book. It's been a while now. Agreed Clinton1011 posted:Someone recently posted that they are starting the series and a few people requested they come back and post their thoughts on each book. When that happens we try to be considerate and use spoilers. But there's no harm in doing this either. At this point, I would consider spoiler tags for Cold Days to be a courtesy, not a necessity.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2013 21:57
|
|
|
Wade Wilson posted:Imagine how crazy the next book is going to be when we see how Molly behaves as the Winter Lady. Its pretty up in the air. Lily had the summer mantle for a decade and still seemed to be Lily, but we really don't know much abouy Aurora when she wasn't Nemesis' d. They may have just been similar enough the differences were hard to tell, or a decade might not be long enough to fully change someone. Molly and Maeve we know a lot more about, but Maeve has potentially been infected since she's been on screen. And she's been neglecting responsibilities and acting eratticly. Plus, Molly isn't Harry and historically hasn't dealt too well with temptation. Either way, Molly is going to be badly off. Maybe bitter, maybe crazier, maybe overcautious. And considering the hints Odin/Kringle dropped, a future plot is probably going to revolve around removing a mantle without murder.
|
|
#
?
Apr 1, 2013 22:40
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2024 17:07 |
|
|
Donraj posted:I suppose you could argue that it makes sense because by that point Dresden knows the mantle is messing with his head and he's trying to just stay focused on resisting it and doesn't want to waste energy on mentally castigating himself, but even if it's justifiable it's still the least best way to go about it. Dresden's compulsive need to protect women and children (which Molly still is to him on some level) is a huge part of his character. When he realized what he was thinking by all rights he should have been fighting the urge to vomit and/or considering putting a bullet in his head, because that poo poo's way beyond catching himself thinking about hurting Bob or Toot Toot. He already did the bullet thing and he realized that it wasn't the answer he hoped it would be. Also, at the end when he decides to stay on the island for a while that's him finding time to deal with all of the mental stuff. I feel we'll get more revulsion in the next book.
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2013 00:02
|
|