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Mazz posted:2. How they handle grouping will be paramount, especially when you consider grouping of different sizes. I will be shocked if less than 80% of matches end up being one way stomps.
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Mar 29, 2013 23:14
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EDIT: Double Post
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Mar 29, 2013 23:15
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I'm going to whine about something. I was unaware that the Kingdoms CD was so restrictive as to require being on the Internet for the sake of it's on-disc copy protection, where standard M2 did not. This I discovered during a recent period, now ended, where I was not Net-capable.
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Mar 30, 2013 11:40
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Captain Beans posted:The drop in was actually great at giving you real armies that were within the same size range of the human player. The drop in feature should be the #1 thing they work on because their games continue to become more complex and their AI will never keep up. I think it would be great if it was always on and it picked human AI substitutes based on the skill of the AI commander compared to the human substitute's online rank. I'd be more or less happy if they just dropped the normal match making and make it 100 percent drop-in battles. It's a really cool feature and I wish more people used it.
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Mar 30, 2013 11:56
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If they pull off the stated goals of designing the game around less frequent but bigger more decisive battles then drop in battles will probably work a lot better than before. They need to heavily incentivise them though, and provide more opportunities for people to play them. Like having an option to drop into other peoples campaigns while playing your own for example.
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Mar 30, 2013 12:11
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There's already an option when you start a campaign for Shogun to 'search continuously for other players drop in battles'. An incentive to actually do so would be great, asides from the obvious fun of smashing people.
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Mar 30, 2013 12:26
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Tommofork posted:There's already an option when you start a campaign for Shogun to 'search continuously for other players drop in battles'. An incentive to actually do so would be great, asides from the obvious fun of smashing people. Really? How did I miss that? I think I assumed it was just the option to have people drop in to your battles for some reason. I never had it happen to me anyway. And yeah, I don't need an incentive, my worry is that no one will play my battles unless they get sweet sweet exp and loot. Also I just went looking for a compilation of info about Rome II and got distracted because they are still throwing hissy fits on TWC about the 1tpy. It's glorious, who knew such a small issue would be the seed for the most perfect storm of TWC bitching, it has it all: misunderstanding of statistics, HAAAAARDDDCOOOOREEE gamer elitism, anecdotal evidence supremacy, entitlement, complaints of dumbing down and bitching about steam. I only wish they'd gone with Hollywood Egyptians now just to see their reactions.
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Mar 30, 2013 12:58
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Shorter Than Some posted:
I would honestly be down with this if they modelled all the Egyptians to look like Arnold Vosloo.
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Mar 30, 2013 13:05
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So I'm drawing very close to Realm Divide with Oda in my second ever game of vanilla S2, and look to be triggering it with the next province I capture. As such, and as I'm actually not at war with anyone at the moment, I'm looking at consolidating a bit (it's only 1566) before dropping the hammer; upgrading all wealth-generating buildings in my provinces, building up my armed forces a little etc. I've actually found Oda quite easy to play with; their Ashigaru archers are actually very slightly superior to Chokosabe archers, and seeing as I've teched up along the Spear route not only do I have Naginata samurai as my general-purpose all-rounders, but my ability to create masses of naturally superior veteran Ashigaru spearmen means that I can go full-on zerg rush thanks to their rock-bottom upkeep. Here's my situation at the moment, I'm playing on Normal: I've got 3 full stacks of about 1:1 spearmen/bowmen with a couple of samurai Nags apiece in my westernmost province right near the central clusterfuck so that I can take out the (relatively undefended) Hattori centre lands and take the capital for my own. In my north-central most province (directly under the green clan - forget who they are) I have a full stack with some Katana Samurai thrown in for good measure defending a bridge as the bulk of the Hattori forces (2 full stacks worth in about 3-4 armies) is milling around there and I'd prefer to defend against them in favourable territory. The north-eastern-most province carries a single full stack of 1:1 bowmen/spear ashigaru, which I'll use to slowly crawl around the northernmost provinces and ensure that I've only got one front to deal with. My capital, and main troop-production facility, is in the westernmost province. I can train armour-upgraded ashigaru, spear samurai, and naginata samurai, and I'm thinking of getting either a stable for light cav, or a sword school - thoughts? (I don't want to get a samurai archer building, as I have plentiful superior ashigaru archers). How am I looking in terms of being able to handle realm divide? Also, what do people do to guard against raids on inner provinces by sea-transported troops? I have no navy to speak of; should I try to have a full stack on the north and south, or concentrate on building up a couple of central troop training castles in order to stave off a successful invasion? (I have +20 rice, so that's probably not a big deal)
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Mar 30, 2013 13:32
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Shorter Than Some posted:
I don't see how the spite outweighs the fact one major faction is staffed with lovely units. I think you all are being a bit obsessive here.
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Mar 30, 2013 14:57
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CharlestheHammer posted:I don't see how the spite outweighs the fact one major faction is staffed with lovely units. I think you all are being a bit obsessive here. I think you're taking my throwaway facetious comment a bit too serious here.
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Mar 30, 2013 15:09
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British Rifles, Yari Samurai and Teutonic Knight cav spam here I come.
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Mar 30, 2013 15:24
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Shorter Than Some posted:I think you're taking my throwaway facetious comment a bit too serious here. I am just really tired of all the really stupid TWC bullshit.
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Mar 30, 2013 15:25
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Breetai posted:I'm thinking of getting either a stable for light cav, or a sword school - thoughts? (I don't want to get a samurai archer building, as I have plentiful superior ashigaru archers). I'd go with the sword school. Cavalry aren't necessary in single player like they are in multi. You're better off packing some katana samurai with your stacks for a little extra melee instead of having situational and vulnerable light cavalry. And you did good by having a lot of chokepoints before realm divide. If you have to you can fall back and fortify those but it doesn't sound like you'll need to. Chosokabe and the other western clans are probably going to send armies to the weakest point on your coast. The good thing about the AI is they barely protect their transports. Most of the time it'll just be one or two ships. Just having a few small fleets of medium bunes with bow koboyas might be enough to sink whole stacks which will save you the trouble of playing whack a mole in the middle of your clan. But it's best to have a stack or two if you can spare just in case. Naval landings are more of a nuisance than a serious threat.
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Mar 30, 2013 16:05
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Breetai posted:So I'm drawing very close to Realm Divide with Oda in my second ever game of vanilla S2, and look to be triggering it with the next province I capture. As such, and as I'm actually not at war with anyone at the moment, I'm looking at consolidating a bit (it's only 1566) before dropping the hammer; upgrading all wealth-generating buildings in my provinces, building up my armed forces a little etc. I've actually found Oda quite easy to play with; their Ashigaru archers are actually very slightly superior to Chokosabe archers, and seeing as I've teched up along the Spear route not only do I have Naginata samurai as my general-purpose all-rounders, but my ability to create masses of naturally superior veteran Ashigaru spearmen means that I can go full-on zerg rush thanks to their rock-bottom upkeep. Here's my situation at the moment, I'm playing on Normal: You should be fine (although you're on normal so you should always be fine  ).Regards to coast protection: I was going to say plonk a fleet around Tokyo Bay since they're your richest provinces but then I remembered they're usually not and that I'm probably the only person that focuses on them. Otherwise, well a fleet is really the best option, but only if you have the black ship. You have too much land for an army to be effective without one- right now your strategy will have to be to recapture lost towns on your coastline rather than fend off the invasion, and that means you could get looted every time which would be a bit of a pain. Try to capture the black ship, or make like a full stack of heavy bunes. Armies won't cut it unless all your valuable provinces are clustered very close together (like around Tokyo Bay  ). All this said, on normal naval invasions aren't so much of an issue. ^^^ I wouldn't bet on the fleets being tiny; they may be, but if a few ships are your only protection you might be in trouble. Regards to next territories: TAKE MINO AND ECHIZEN your frontier is currently crap. You don't want your capitol right on the border.  Then fortify them. That will be a defensible three provinces on the frontier as opposed to the indefensible fuckload you have right now. Use the mountains to your advantage, think about your borders as you're expanding. Do not go for the western Hattori lands yet. If they have three stacks against your one (I'm assuming the bridge you're talking about is north of Owari?) obviously wait them out there first, they should attack quickly. At the same time as you're getting that frontier, really prioritize the east. Unless the Date are utterly destitute, only thinking of that bit as an afterthought could bite you on the rear end. Blitz Uzen as soon as realm divide hits  The main priority is not to force your way westward immediately since that'll just open your borders even more. Take all of eastern Honshu. Sado too (especially Sado since it has lovely gold). One stack from your west should be able to take all of the Hattori provinces north of you, the other can defend the western border. You can make more Ashigaru in the east easily if that stack doesn't turn out to be adequate. It is much easier to consolidate when you don't have to worry about enemies storming into your lands all the time. And for what to build in your capital, don't go for horses. Horses are poo poo. Plus don't you have a horse speed province right near there? If you must have horses make them there instead. Building up Kaga (which you should have soon) or Sagami for unit production would be really good though, since they have a blacksmith in them. That + the encampment bonus will make your ashigaru utterly ridiculous.
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Mar 30, 2013 16:20
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So there I am happily conquering Japan as Nobunaga when I get a popup. Apparently lil' Nobie has been getting too big for his britches so I have the option of either forcing him to commit seppuku or waiting to see if he'll redeem himself. I of course pardoned him, but doesn't that seem screwy, though? Shouldn't you want your heir to be acclaimed and covered in glory? (I ended up running Nobuhide into a swarm of spearmen and crowning Nobunaga as my new daimyo.)
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Mar 30, 2013 22:24
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Koramei posted:Stuff Thanks for that, I'll keep the advice in mind. Played it a little more last night after I posted, and the second I hit 'end turn' from my savegame the Date clan declared war on me - and promptly lost two full stacks by beseiging my northernmost castle where I had a full stack that did most of the conquering up until that point; we're talking about 5-6-rank archers and spear ashigaru. My losses were such that all of my units bar one had a single turn healing time.  I'm not going to do any more conquering until I've really shored up my defences and gotten some navy going, but it's nice that I've effectively broken their backs, as it means that I can probably send out a small force to take out whatever they try to rebuild, and then split my army and just blitz their remaining provinces in one turn.
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Mar 31, 2013 00:07
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Breetai posted:Thanks for that, I'll keep the advice in mind. Played it a little more last night after I posted, and the second I hit 'end turn' from my savegame the Date clan declared war on me This is a perfect opportunity for general training. Send generals that you want to level up to the northern border to beat back the Date and then shuttle them (either by boat or just marching) to points where you will need them when you decide to break realm. Also, do try not to get too large a victory as if you get a little statuette from one battle you can receive +1 score towards the divide. If that keeps up too often you might end up breaking RD faster than you wanted.
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Mar 31, 2013 23:28
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What are the best uses for Foreign Veterans? He seems like an everyman type of character. It looks like he can "assassinate" characters, sabotage buildings and train troops. I will say this, though. They did manage to create practically 3 different games with Shogun 2 and its different campaigns. Also, how to trade routes work in Fall?
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Apr 1, 2013 22:28
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Jimbot posted:What are the best uses for Foreign Veterans?
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Apr 1, 2013 22:36
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Yeah, if you get a foreign veteran with one or two of the +firing rate or +accuracy retainers (like the guns), they do hilarious things with stacks of line infantry early on.
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Apr 1, 2013 22:38
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A friend and I recently picked up Fall and have played pretty far into a long co-op game with me as Satsuma and him as Choshu. I'm finding it really fun despite hating Empire and not buying Napoleon. The main problem I'm having is not actually knowing what the hell I'm doing and just kind of winging it as I go along which has produced some rocky results. I'm almost positive the only reason my friend and I are alive is having each other to lean on and I'd like to expand myself to a solo game, so a few questions: -What's a good research strategy? What are some high priority techs? Research feels like it takes absolutely forever even compared to Shogun 2 vanilla. Am I missing some obvious way to boost it? -What's the best way to build up your economy? Farm spam? Cottage industries? Inn spam? Beeline trading ports? -What's an ideal army composition? What units are good and bad? From our experience so far, the most effective army seems to be making GBS threads out as many Line Infantry(or Levy Infantry in a pinch) as physically possible and blobbing them together with some artillery support. Artillery seems monstrously devastating and a must-have in all armies. Cavalry seems almost completely useless, being both horrifically vulnerable to the spears most of the remaining melee units will be carrying, being even more horrifically vulnerable to being shot to death, and being insanely expensive compared to cramming in more line infantry. Tips are appreciated!
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Apr 1, 2013 22:57
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Against the AI, line infantry backed by good artillery (anything but wooden cannons) will pretty much win you every battle. Cavalry pretty much has to flank a line or else it dies. That said, when you research revolver cav your horsemen become harassers from Hell. You will laugh at those spears that used to fend them off. Economy-wise, the important thing to note about farms is that, unlike vanilla Shogun 2, the income displayed by the tooltip isn't modified by fertility for some reason. It displays the value you get for a barren province. A very fertile province will make a hell of a lot more money than the tooltip would lead you to believe. Research speed is naturally boosted as you work your way up in modernization. Just make sure you have the means to deal with the unhappiness. It adds up.
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Apr 1, 2013 23:13
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Kanos posted:A friend and I recently picked up Fall and have played pretty far into a long co-op game with me as Satsuma and him as Choshu. I'm finding it really fun despite hating Empire and not buying Napoleon. The main problem I'm having is not actually knowing what the hell I'm doing and just kind of winging it as I go along which has produced some rocky results. I'm almost positive the only reason my friend and I are alive is having each other to lean on and I'd like to expand myself to a solo game, so a few questions: I'm interested to hear what other people have to say about the researches, but I think it's pretty drat well balanced to do whatever you want. The only techs I tend to avoid are the agent stat boost ones unless I use that particular agent type a hell of a lot. Explosive shells early mean you can win naval battles for a long time with minimal effort, the repression and conversion boosting ones will save you some grief come realm divide if you go Republican, otherwise it doesn't really matter. The kneel fire tech will make your line units nearly unbeatable. Cottage industries down the cotton path will eventually turn out to be the most profitable I think, but you can fit cottage industry + market in nearly every province. And always go market in that building chain unless it's a province you really don't want to have to deal with unrest in. Farms in general seem to be a lot less useful in FotS, probably because most of the map is barren, but building up the farms in your fertile provinces is always a good idea. Make a trading port as fast as you can to get trade with the western powers; that'll give you a ton of money. And army composition sort of depends on how you want to play. I think cavalry is much more feasible in this period than in vanilla, actually; revolver cavalry are absolutely devastating. If you're looking for easy wins though, artillery all the way. Koramei fucked around with this message at 23:16 on Apr 1, 2013 |
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Apr 1, 2013 23:13
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For some reason I feel a bit silly asking this: are there any rifle type units in ROTS? I have FOTS, and while it's fun, I greatly prefer earlier periods to line infantry. I'm assuming there's a larger focus on bows and melee than rifles?
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Apr 1, 2013 23:27
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Pope Mobile posted:For some reason I feel a bit silly asking this: are there any rifle type units in ROTS? I have FOTS, and while it's fun, I greatly prefer earlier periods to line infantry. I'm assuming there's a larger focus on bows and melee than rifles? Rifle units in the 12th century?  No, no there are not. The arquebusiers you get in vanilla are one of the earliest forms of mainline gunpowder troops in the world. The closest you'll get in RotS is an army of fire rockets.
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Apr 1, 2013 23:37
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Koramei posted:Rifle units in the 12th century? That's sweet. Unfortunately, I didn't do my homework when I bought FOTS and didn't realize it's standalone  Technically I don't "own" Shogun 2, and I don't feel like paying $40 for ROTS.
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Apr 2, 2013 03:18
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e: ^^^^^^^^ You should be able to find Shogun 2 and RotS for less than $40 surely? What country are you in?Koramei posted:Rifle units in the 12th century? There are no fire rockets in RotS. I assume you mean Fire Bomb Throwers? shalcar fucked around with this message at 03:43 on Apr 2, 2013 |
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Apr 2, 2013 03:39
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shalcar posted:e: ^^^^^^^^ You should be able to find Shogun 2 and RotS for less than $40 surely? What country are you in? He's probably in some backwards country like Australia. But still, Pope Mobile, it'll go on sale eventually for a lot less. Buy it then. And FINE MISTER PEDANTIC, yes I did. Are fire rockets even a thing? I don't remember them. I don't build anything in the siege line very often though.
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Apr 2, 2013 03:45
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Koramei posted:He's probably in some backwards country like Australia. But still, Pope Mobile, it'll go on sale eventually for a lot less. Buy it then. I'm in some backwards country like Australia! He can try Green Man Gaming, they tend to be significantly cheaper than steam and often have the TW stuff on sale. Might be able to wrangle both for $30 or something. I would say it's worth it, but I concede I might be biased. Also yes, Fire Rockets are available at the top of the siege line in vanilla. They need an Arsenal to build. They sound much more fun then they work out being, sadly (unlike Hand Mortars, who are every bit as hilarious as you would think).
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Apr 2, 2013 03:48
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Fire rockets are indeed a unit in vanilla Shogun 2. Never used them personally, but they don't seem all too effective. EDIT: Dammit, this is what preview post is for.
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Apr 2, 2013 03:49
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Gimnbo posted:Fire rockets are indeed a unit in vanilla Shogun 2. Never used them personally, but they don't seem all too effective. They murder cavalry with incredible effectiveness, they make fantastic general snipers. That's about it, though.
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Apr 2, 2013 03:51
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Doesn't everything murder cavalry though?
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Apr 2, 2013 03:52
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I'm in the US, and all I can find are the Master Pack for $50 and Shogun 2 for $30 & ROTS for $10. I can wait for a sale.
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Apr 2, 2013 04:20
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Pope Mobile posted:I'm in the US, and all I can find are the Master Pack for $50 and Shogun 2 for $30 & ROTS for $10. I can wait for a sale. What's your steam id? I may have a spare Shogun 2 key. I'll check in the morning.
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Apr 2, 2013 04:39
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Pope Mobile posted:I'm in the US, and all I can find are the Master Pack for $50 and Shogun 2 for $30 & ROTS for $10. I can wait for a sale. Either GreenManGaming and/or Gamefly had the TW franchise on sale. Though I heard some US goons have trouble with the payment, since some banks scream bloody murder at the word "Game".
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Apr 2, 2013 04:43
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Josef bugman posted:This is a perfect opportunity for general training. Send generals that you want to level up to the northern border to beat back the Date and then shuttle them (either by boat or just marching) to points where you will need them when you decide to break realm. Also, do try not to get too large a victory as if you get a little statuette from one battle you can receive +1 score towards the divide. If that keeps up too often you might end up breaking RD faster than you wanted. That... might be a problem....  There's one single solitary pixel's difference between me being a cool dude that everyone gets along with and being a pariah that every other clan wants to pound into the ground. Then again, the Hattori (2nd most powerful clan after me) have seized the Shogunate leading to a clusterfuck where EVERYONE hates everyone else and the other clans have all started warring. So I've taken the opportunity to strike in the confusion, and look like blitzing 4 Hattori castles in a single turn, triggering the divide. I have about 7-8 full stack armies. That being said, Naval victories don't seem to affect your fame that much, so I was able to annihilate the Date navy and reclaim the Northernmost trading node with about 7 captured trading ships.
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Apr 2, 2013 05:03
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Holy smokes, Fall is tough early on. Money is sparse as is happiness. drat rear end-backwards peasants, modernization is a good thing! Give it a chance!  What's the deal with all those fancy infantry troops with the different hats? Aside from some minor stats differences (and the hats) there doesn't seem to be much of a difference. Are they there mainly to spice up the visuals and easy to identify on the battlefield? Are the sword units worth getting? I'm playing as Satsuma and it's just wrong to see Shimazu without an army of katana samurai.
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Apr 2, 2013 05:45
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The stat differences aren't SO minor, for instance, an army mainly comprised of red bear infantry can give a reasonable account of themselves in melee, even against samurai, while an army comprised of line infantry can't. Unless you mean, like, red bear vs black bear, which is pretty much just for visuals and some clan variation. Katana Kachi are likely going to be the best melee troops you can recruit for a long time, and that can be everything in a siege battle, and combined with yari kachi(whose bonus against cavalry will come in handy all the way to the end game) they give you more options in dealing with certain enemy army compositions, so I'd say it's worth it to get a samurai dojo going in one province.
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Apr 2, 2013 06:15
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| # ? Jun 7, 2024 08:41 |
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Enigma posted:What's your steam id? I may have a spare Shogun 2 key. I'll check in the morning. Really? That'd be awesome. My Steam ID should be S0cr8t3s.
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Apr 2, 2013 18:08
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