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MrYenko posted:with decent search radar, you're going to know about inbound aircraft early enough that you don't need to panic-launch your interceptors from giant roman candles, in the first place.
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Apr 1, 2013 00:01
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evil_bunnY posted:I don't understand what's not to like when you have planes that are basically designed from the ground up to climb like hell and shoot bombers. I didn't say it was a bad idea, I just said it was unconventional. It seems they got the launching part pretty well worked out, and the scheme might have been more easy to make operational if they weren't also trying to put nuclear weapons on the things.
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Apr 1, 2013 00:48
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If it had wings it could probably carry nukes in the cold war. I'm surprised we never nuclear-ized helicopters. (I am so hoping I am wrong on this and someone posts a hilarious project)
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Apr 1, 2013 00:56
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Alaan posted:If it had wings it could probably carry nukes in the cold war. I'm surprised we never nuclear-ized helicopters. Of course Iran has you covered http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/iran-nuclear-helicopters-AhmadVahidi/2011/05/27/id/397977
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Apr 1, 2013 01:05
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Plinkey posted:Of course Iran has you covered I don't know about the weight of primitive Iran/DPRK style nukes but presumably a heavy lift helicopter could drop them, like that cargo plane that the USAF had launching ICBMS.
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Apr 1, 2013 01:14
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StandardVC10 posted:I didn't say it was a bad idea, I just said it was unconventional. It seems they got the launching part pretty well worked out, and the scheme might have been more easy to make operational if they weren't also trying to put nuclear weapons on the things. If you're going to shoot something off a rocket and have it go explode bombers doing it with SAMs became a lot easier pretty early
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Apr 1, 2013 02:33
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Here's some Cold War stuff. On the left my old Hensoldt DF 8x30 and on the right the NVA Zeiss EDF 7x40 oB I just finished cleaning up. I actually picked up the Zeiss glass thinking it was a fixer-upper and would require servicing to open up the left eyepiece. As it turns out somebody had just locked the IR detector in place at some point which was blocking the visible light spectrum and also apparently the source of the rattling (which it is not supposed to do but has zero impact on anything). Thank god somebody had a translated manual for it online. East and West German surplus field glasses are pretty great and it's surprising how cheap they can go. Warbadger fucked around with this message at 03:59 on Apr 1, 2013 |
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Apr 1, 2013 03:51
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TheFluff posted:I can sperg out for much longer about Swedish cold war stuff if you guys are interested
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Apr 1, 2013 03:51
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Alaan posted:If it had wings it could probably carry nukes in the cold war. I'm surprised we never nuclear-ized helicopters. We had nuclear depth charges and \/ Yeah that'd probably be the most likely CONOPS, but the B57 definitely was capable of being carried on board a helicopter...whether it actually was regularly carried I don't know (I doubt it though). Also I misspoke about the torpedoes, there weren't ever any airdropped nuclear tipped torpedoes...the only nuke torpedo the US had was the wire guided non-homing ASTOR, which given that it was almost 20' long and weighed over a ton probably wasn't going on an aircraft anytime soon (also the whole non-homing thing). \/ iyaayas01 fucked around with this message at 05:24 on Apr 1, 2013 |
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Apr 1, 2013 05:11
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I would think they would use the helo to find the sub and then use SUBROCs before they'd straight load nuke torpedos. Helicopters, particularly '60s ones, weren't the most reliable.
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Apr 1, 2013 05:14
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This thread was having a vaguely B-17-related derail a few pages ago, so here's a present.  I think it'll be in Burbank soon if anybody from that area wants to try and track it down.
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Apr 1, 2013 05:19
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StandardVC10 posted:This thread was having a vaguely B-17-related derail a few pages ago, so here's a present. I got to crawl around inside that plane and throw my squadron sticker on the inside of the starboard fuselage hatch.  Grabbing on and flipping up into the forward hatch is the coolest loving thing ever.
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Apr 1, 2013 05:55
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One interesting bit of Cold War (though in this case it was hot war) trivia - When the British ship HMS Sheffield was sunk by the Argentinians in the Falklands war it was carrying nuclear weapons. These were subsequently recovered from the sunken wreck after the war. That must have been a pretty grim recovery considering the damage to the ship and all the dead still on board and other munitions with the safeties off.
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Apr 1, 2013 07:57
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Baconroll posted:One interesting bit of Cold War (though in this case it was hot war) trivia - When the British ship HMS Sheffield was sunk by the Argentinians in the Falklands war it was carrying nuclear weapons. These were subsequently recovered from the sunken wreck after the war. You sure about that? I didn't think Royal Navy had nukes other than those on SSBNs and on carriers. Was Seadart ever nuclear-capable?
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Apr 1, 2013 08:15
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Yes it was carrying nuclear depth charges - The Ministry of Defence finally admitted this, http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2003/dec/06/military.freedomofinformation
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Apr 1, 2013 08:22
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As far as I understand it, the Sheffield may have been carrying nuclear depth charges. The Ministry of Defense has refused to either confirm or deny this. edit: baconroll, you should probably actually read that article. The MoD said they transferred off the charges, but gave no concrete details, and I personally don't blame them. quote:The ministry also refused to say whether any nuclear depth charges were on board HMS Sheffield, which was sunk during the war... Memento fucked around with this message at 08:24 on Apr 1, 2013 |
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Apr 1, 2013 08:22
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evil_bunnY posted:e: the problem was that instead of using it for intercepts, they did it by first trying to land tailhook-equipped jets on air mattresses (with predictable results, obviously) then devised a plan that involved trucking nuclear bombers around the country side. 
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Apr 1, 2013 15:02
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I can only hope they made a special medal for the guy(s) that thought that up and made them wear it through the rest of their career.
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Apr 1, 2013 15:06
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The aftermath report says that ingesting the mattresses into the engines did more damage than just belly landing the thing would have done.
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Apr 1, 2013 18:15
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Baconroll posted:Yes it was carrying nuclear depth charges - The Ministry of Defence finally admitted this, Almost everyone with a navy worth mentioning was armed with tactical nuclear weapons at that time. It's like being surprised that the Bismarck might have had armor piercing ammunition loaded when she went down.
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Apr 2, 2013 00:33
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Taerkar posted:I can only hope they made a special medal for the guy(s) that thought that up and made them wear it through the rest of their career. Insert EGA joke here.
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Apr 2, 2013 03:29
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Godholio posted:Insert EGA joke here. hahahaha
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Apr 2, 2013 03:54
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I just found this in 1950s Life: an article on the Swedish defense caves.
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Apr 2, 2013 16:33
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That's an awesome find. Thanks! I went to poke around some more and found this BBC report from 1959, which is similar. Some of those places mentioned are still intact (like Muskö naval base, although these days it's only used by commercial interests), while others have been sealed and forgotten. Saab's underground aircraft factory (measuring 21000 square meters and located some 30 meters below the surface) has not been in use for over a decade, but is still open and the air filtering and water pumps were still active as of last year. It's unfortunately not open to the public and is only remaining open by virtue of Saab's will to preserve their own history (and it's gotta be pretty expensive to keep it dehumidified). There are several huge underground parking garages beneath the Stockholm inner city that were originally built to double as bomb shelters for the civilian population; this one was designed for 15000 people and has several highly surprising entrances from places I pass by weekly but never knew about. Here's a late 50's silent video showing an evacuation exercise involving a similar shelter. Another notable preserved underground facility is "Elefanten", which was a command bunker for the civil defense (including offices for the state-owned public radio and TV broadcasting), that was completed in 1977 and decommissioned in 1998 and then left intact. There are some photos here and even more here. Everything is still there: boxes with air filters marked "only for use after NBC weapons have been deployed", steel helmets, buttons for triggering air raid sirens in the entire greater Stockholm area, 50's vintage phone switchboards, etc etc. One of the underground hangars has been converted to a military aviation museum, and is a great place to spend an afternoon if you ever find yourself passing by Gothenburg. Many other of these have either been sold off (mostly for use as server halls) or just emptied and sealed up. Which is a pity, since I'm just fascinated by bunkers. 
TheFluff fucked around with this message at 23:36 on Apr 2, 2013 |
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Apr 2, 2013 17:23
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I'm just going to point out that Moosepoop's famous underground shooting range lair is one of these as well. I'm pretty sure he also mentioned something about either him or some people in his family renting part of another one as a storage unit, or something like that. I feel like it might have been storage for an RV or a camper or something? Something large-ish at any rate.
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Apr 2, 2013 17:59
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Yeah, there are a lot of them and most of the ones in densely populated areas have been repurposed rather than sealed. It's both fascinating and deeply unnerving how everyone was so convinced that the bomb was going to drop one of these days. I guess I should actually go read this entire thread before I post anything else, so I don't sperg out too much about things that have already been covered in detail. TheFluff fucked around with this message at 18:40 on Apr 2, 2013 |
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Apr 2, 2013 18:15
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Also note that the Swedish destroyer is sitting in an atom-proof pen.
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Apr 2, 2013 22:59
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I ran into this while doing my yearly nuclear enthusiasm research I've found something beyond hosed up. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samson_option I tried to find an official source but given that it concerns Israel's nuclear program and its intentional obscurity couldn't find an unbiased outside source other than antisemitic blogs and proisraeli blogs. Do you guys think this is a viable policy? That Israel would target nominally friendly countries with nukes if they let Israel's enemies overrun her? Has the US ever made reference to this posture? It sounds so out of touch with how cautious and calculating (this is not critic, its a good trait for a country to have) Israel is, that I find it hard to believe.
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Apr 5, 2013 02:04
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Given Israel's small geographic size and, in a relative sense, numerical weakness, it would sort of make sense as a way of forcing an escalation of a conflict- instead of making possible enemies consider just Israel's own nuclear deterrent, they'd have to consider that and whatever players Israel could force into a war. Or something, I don't really know.
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Apr 5, 2013 03:58
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At least for the duration of the Cold War, I don't think Israel had a delivery vehicle that could realistically reach into Europe beyond Turkey or maybe Greece at the farthest. The Jerichos didn't have the reach. The Dolphins don't start coming online until the turn of the 21st century and I'm not sure if the Gals were nuke capable; even if they were, it seems unlikely in a time of war that they'd be on the far side of the Med. Similarly, I can't see Israel diverting precious strike aircraft on a one-way suicide mission to nuke a random third party in the middle of an existential war against more local enemies. There are claims Israel had warheads slated for Soviet targets but I don't know if any of those actually reached into Russia proper.
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Apr 5, 2013 04:55
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There's also the probability that it's a bluff, similar to Nixon's Madman Theory.
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Apr 5, 2013 08:28
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It gets Israel nothing but the assurance that whatever conventional war they're fighting is now irrelevant.
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Apr 5, 2013 08:48
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So I found a thing: Yep. That would be Team Yankee, the "Graphic Novel" whatever that is.  I'm not cool enough to scan the whole thing (and I don't have a scanner handy) but it's certainly...different? The plotline is mostly intact, although things have been reordered (rather than the limited nuclear exchange being the end of the book, it's at about the 75% mark). Art isn't bad, although it feels like the artist got some vehicles jumbled/proportionality strange. Also, bonus points for having an M60A2 in passing earlier in the book. The really neat part for me, is that the guy who wrote the adaptation makes commentary at the end of what had to be each original issue. If you've already looked, then eh. But if you haven't, basically it's a page worth of David Drake of "Hammer's Slammer's" fame talking about what World War Three would look like, with all sorts of period references (misunderstanding of T-72 use, T-64/T-80 specs, the A-10 as a unproven weapon system etc).
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Apr 5, 2013 15:29
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I remember Team Yankee being a fun book when I was 12.
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Apr 5, 2013 16:26
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Forums Terrorist posted:There's also the probability that it's a bluff, similar to Nixon's Madman Theory. In this context, it is worth noting in the case of Israel the extent to which PTSD has been the national ethos.
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Apr 5, 2013 16:46
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So MY WIFE bought me a flight on the B-25 at the Lone Star Flight Museum. Anyone here been in a B-25? I'm hoping that we get to move around the plane and see the tail gun position, bombardier position, etc. I am stoked.
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Apr 8, 2013 02:39
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PhotoKirk posted:So MY WIFE bought me a flight on the B-25 at the Lone Star Flight Museum. Anyone here been in a B-25? I'm hoping that we get to move around the plane and see the tail gun position, bombardier position, etc. I am stoked. you lucky bastard.
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Apr 8, 2013 02:51
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PhotoKirk posted:So MY WIFE bought me a flight on the B-25 at the Lone Star Flight Museum. Anyone here been in a B-25? I'm hoping that we get to move around the plane and see the tail gun position, bombardier position, etc. I am stoked. Not a B25, but I took a ride in a B17 in 2011. It was a blast; you'll have a blast. Make sure and get lot of pictures. I have a ContourHD with a head mount and I just wore it for the whole flight, then took a bunch of stills when we landed. I posted some of my pictures earlier in this thread, too. http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3373768&userid=58669#post397774152
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Apr 8, 2013 03:11
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Craptacular posted:Not a B25, but I took a ride in a B17 in 2011. It was a blast; you'll have a blast. Make sure and get lot of pictures. I have a ContourHD with a head mount and I just wore it for the whole flight, then took a bunch of stills when we landed. I posted some of my pictures earlier in this thread, too. http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3373768&userid=58669#post397774152 I have my D7000 and a couple small HD camcorders. I'm trying to figure out how to film everything at once. I might set a small camera on a tripod at the tail position for the entire flight. I AM SO STOKED!!!!!! I'm like a 5-year-old that has been eating candy all day.
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Apr 8, 2013 04:56
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PhotoKirk posted:So MY WIFE bought me a flight on the B-25 at the Lone Star Flight Museum. Anyone here been in a B-25? I'm hoping that we get to move around the plane and see the tail gun position, bombardier position, etc. I am stoked. When I was a kid, my grandparents bought me a ride on the Yankee Warrior, a B-25D operated by the Yankee Air Museum at Willow Run in Michigan. I got to fly in the bombardier's seat. Best day of my life.
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Apr 8, 2013 06:39
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