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Rueish posted:I'm definitely going against the general opinion of 13-2 here, but who cares. I thought the story in 13-2, while a bit convoluted, was way more interesting than 13. The first game was pretty typical "They are heretics! Get them! Choose your own destiny!" whereas the second is all about "What the gently caress is happening with time?" I'm extremely biased though because I absolutely love when something deals with space time fuckery. I wouldn't mind the time fuckery so much if there had been some actual lead in for it instead of just "Oh yeah, time can get hosed up in this FF universe, slipped my mind to mention that." As it is, it is pretty blatantly just grasping for some sort of story hook and if it needs to completely rewrite the ending of 13 it will do it. Caius, Noel, and Valhalla come completely out of nowhere, Lightning talking about the goddess is completely out of what character she has, and Mog pretty much only exists because FF games have to have moogles, I guess. I probably wouldn't hate it so much if it were just a completely separate game or if it had spent more time on Caius and what he was doing. It would actually have been pretty interesting if the game swapped between team morons + pet and team Caius and the thousand Yeuls as the playable characters to give both sides of the story instead of a whole lot of "What's going on" that just sort of ends. gently caress things up with the former team, then try to unfuck them with the latter. Edit: The fal'cie being totally swept under the rug and everyone just getting right along with things also kind of annoys me. There should have been at least some social upheaval from that. Yeah they mention some trouble adapting, but come on. And I have a hard time believing that the humans could easily dismantle the pulse fal'cie. chumbler fucked around with this message at 01:38 on Apr 2, 2013 |
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Apr 2, 2013 01:08
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Proto Cloud posted:I dunno how anyone can recommend XGs with a straight face with how just how poo poo game gets after disc 2. Then there's the lousy platforming and a battle system that is both super easy and terrible. It's one of those games that have great writing and atmosphere but the gameplay drags. It's best experienced in a Let's Play form in my opinion because ultimately it's still a game worth seeing.
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Apr 2, 2013 01:11
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That loving Sned posted:The sequel should have focused on the more interesting aspects of FFXIII, such as the Fal'Cie. Being cursed to carry out a mission, while being given extraordinary powers in order to do so is an interesting concept which was mishandled by the first game. What if they actually gave you the freedom to interpret the vision however you wanted to, and you had several ways to achieve it? Sounds much better than "My girlfriend died a thousand times, so I'm going to destroy the universe". While the fal'Cie are important in XIII, they aren't much more than a footnote in the FNC mythology, which is what XIII-2 expands upon. It's more directly concerned with the actions of gods and goddesses (and by the sound of Lightning Returns, even moreso with the cult of Bhunivelze etc.) that are higher up the food chain. This is why I personally found XIII-2's plot more interesting than XIII's, because underneath the convoluted telling of it, the FNC mythology is pretty drat interesting.
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Apr 2, 2013 01:35
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The main problem with FFXIII/2's storytelling is ironically because of the two pieces of the puzzle have very different priorities. FFXIII is a character-driven game. There's a big, wide world and lots of lore buried in it but, well, that's exactly it- it's buried. The core plot of FFXIII is about six people who are put into a terrible situation where even the best possible outcome for them personally involves pretty much their death and their struggle to figure out what to do while trying to stay alive when every other major player on the field is trying to kill them or force them to finish their geas. The drama of the story comes from collision of the actions, reactions, ideals, and hopes of these six protagonists against first each other, then later those who are forcing on their grim quest. There's a lot going on behind the scenes, but most of that is tied to text entries buried under menus and only appear subtly, if at all, in the game proper. The world of FFXIII ultimately wasn't that important to it's plot (except maybe to explain the actual intentions of Orphan and Barthandelus although it wasn't that complex to figure out in the end) and it mostly served as eye candy and backdrop unless you really got hooked. FFXIII-2, on the flip side, is entirely about the world and mythology of FFXIII. It weaves a long plot about the Gods and the consequence of their actions and the costs of changing fate. You revisit and explore the world multiple times, on multiple timelines, and are drawn in to how your actions are repairing what has since gone wrong. And while there's obviously an antagonist and heroes, they're almost the least important parts of the story except at the very, very end. It's an exercise less in storytelling and more in world-building, except it's a world which the original game almost went out of it's way to not care all that much about.
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Apr 2, 2013 03:33
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Ineffiable posted:Worst comes to worst, I've got the FF5 GBA cart too. Aside from having to play it on a GBA, that's arguably the best version of the game (certainly the best translated/localized), so I wouldn't chalk it up as a worst-case solution.
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Apr 2, 2013 04:58
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I dunno, I strongly favor the RPGe translation and cannot pinpoint precisely why that is. The GBA translation wasn't bad by any means though (and neither was Tom Slattery's FFVI, either!). Woolsey's proto-FFV PS1 script though transforms a great game into an embarrassment, though.
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Apr 2, 2013 06:18
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Evil Fluffy posted:FF2 stuff Bummer! Thanks for the advice though, seems like there are quite a few ways people go about their leveling. Just last night I got to a Certain City and am probably just going to abuse the Swap spell for awhile. And that Toad spell sounds nice! I really didn't enjoy the DS versions of 3 or 4, but that didn't mean the base game was bad...2 I just feel is legitimately a bad game. Oh well, I'm probably about halfway through now and I have plenty of time. Thanks again.
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Apr 2, 2013 06:57
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Blind the Thief posted:Woolsey's proto-FFV PS1 script though transforms a great game into an embarrassment, though. Wait, what? I don't think Woolsey had anything to do with the FFV PS1 translation.
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Apr 2, 2013 08:35
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Woolsey had nothing to do with FFV PS1, and it shows.
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Apr 2, 2013 08:45
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Bongo Bill posted:Woolsey had nothing to do with FFV PS1, and it shows.
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Apr 2, 2013 08:50
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Mr. Locke posted:The main problem with FFXIII/2's storytelling is ironically because of the two pieces of the puzzle have very different priorities. This is a really good assessment of the games. I think both XIII and XIII-2 are worth playing, though there isn't a Final Fantasy I haven't enjoyed to some degree. They have some great atmosphere; the world is beautiful and pretty creative and the soundtrack is probably the best Final Fantasy soundtrack to date (well, maybe XII but different strokes). It absolutely is "anime" as people are saying but every FF game was some flavor of anime for their time so either you like that or you don't. XIII does take far too long to warm up, so to speak, and I say that as someone who very much enjoyed it despite that. I can see why people had a problem with the linearity. The battle system is the best reason to play either game, though it's really refined in XIII-2. I will also say that XIII-2's story got pretty ballsy towards the end and I hope XIII-3 picks up that thread instead of just forgetting it.
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Apr 2, 2013 11:53
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FF5 chat: RPGe translation's pretty bland and tame overall, but it means it's not really bad, either. It's mainly there to tell the story and let you play the game. Considering it's one of the earliest fan translations, it's a really nice effort, but there's not really much to talk about. The PS1 translation's much worse. This was done right before they starting taking translation seriously with FF8, so you have a lot of weird ability and spell names like "Esna" while still keeping with a lot of translation stuff from FF6. It can also be inconsistent, like a NPC talking about Gold Needles when the item is called Soft. And then there are the enemy names, some of which sound close to what they're supposed to be yet end up making no god drat sense (Soccer instead of Sucker, Y-Burn over Wyvern). A lot of character names were also changed, like Lenna becoming Reina, Exdeath being X-Death, and Sarisa becoming Salsa. Most glaringly, you have Faris talking like a stereotypical pirate for the entire game. Even in the other versions, she's not a walking stereotype when she speaks and quickly ditches the accent shortly after she joins the party. It ends up overshadowing any character development Faris gets during the game, because you end up hearing her say poo poo like "Shiver me timbers!" and "F'aar!" constantly. The only plus to it is the unintentional comedy gleaned from her stupid accent at inappropriate times. The GBA version is definitive for good reason. There's more effort than the PS1 version since SE knew to put effort into their translations, and more than the RPGe since this was professional rather than from fans' free time. Its abilities were consistent, and for the most part stuck with the original names than the PS1 versions (other than Bartz over Butz, for obvious reasons). Most importantly, there was a lot of effort put into actually localizing it, adding a lot of flavor to a script that didn't have much originally. Considering this is a light-hearted adventure romp, adding more humorous moments makes the game more memorable, such as Bartz's interactions with Ghido. It's a professional translation with the consistency and accuracy of modern FF translations with a nice helping of Woolsey-esque charm. It's not perfect, but it's certainly enjoyable to play.
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Apr 2, 2013 12:11
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Levantine posted:...and the soundtrack is probably the best Final Fantasy soundtrack to date (well, maybe XII but different strokes). Different opinions about XIII and XIII-2 are all well and good but we need to draw a line somewhere. 
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Apr 2, 2013 12:54
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On top of that the GBA version added some end-game extra jobs, and a lot of post-game content (although a lot of it is hard to the point where you have to look up a guide to get through it). The iOS version that came out recently is the exact same as the GBA one so far, except with fancy sprites, fancy touchscreen menus, and autobattle. Autobattle is pretty cool. Looks really good in motion since they redid a lot of the lovely looking special effects. Also Thieves make you run a lot faster than before in some places, you couldn't Sprint on the world map before right? The one thing the game needs now is an option to speedup cutscenes. They feel so slow now that the rest of the game is faster.
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Apr 2, 2013 13:23
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Rueish posted:I'm definitely going against the general opinion of 13-2 here, but who cares. I thought the story in 13-2, while a bit convoluted, was way more interesting than 13. The first game was pretty typical "They are heretics! Get them! Choose your own destiny!" whereas the second is all about "What the gently caress is happening with time?" I'm extremely biased though because I absolutely love when something deals with space time fuckery. I agree. I didn't particularly dig the story of either but I thought 13-2 was more interesting at least. Also they made Hope not insufferable so that counts as an improvement in my book. Kanfy posted:Different opinions about XIII and XIII-2 are all well and good but we need to draw a line somewhere. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEUOOgNzOv4
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Apr 2, 2013 14:05
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Levantine posted:This is a really good assessment of the games. I agree. With the minor nitpick that I actually liked Caius as a villain in 13-2 a lot.
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Apr 2, 2013 14:20
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This is still the best theme.
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Apr 2, 2013 14:38
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I just wish they hadn't pushed wound potions in, for XIII-2. I was all "Hey, now all fights are on a soft enrage timer, cool! and then on the last boss i found out there were potions to restore the maxHP missing. Shrug, please let me have a 1999 mode.
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Apr 2, 2013 15:22
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Aureon posted:I just wish they hadn't pushed wound potions in, for XIII-2. I completely missed the existence of those potions and ended up beating the last boss without them  I'm pretty sure that made the final boss the hardest final boss in the series, perhaps with the exception of the three first ones. Renoistic fucked around with this message at 15:34 on Apr 2, 2013 |
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Apr 2, 2013 15:32
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Yeah, I ended up just using elixirs on the last boss because I never bothered with buying Wound Potions. However, when doing the post game cleanup I found that they are cheap and restore a good chunk of missing HP for everyone so I should have been using them the whole time.
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Apr 2, 2013 15:34
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I figured out the best thing for FF:Dimensions, and it's playing it with little kids. I'm babysitting my nephew, so I pulled out my phone and started playing. He came over and started watching, so I said "where's the snake?" and he touched the snake on the battle screen. So now I move around and he takes care of the enemies in battle (and then dances to the victory music). It's pretty much the best thing 
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Apr 2, 2013 15:53
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Renoistic posted:I completely missed the existence of those potions and ended up beating the last boss without them You played a better game. Tbh, i just rushed through everything, so the game was pretty hard at all times. The last boss was just freaking brutal, it took me (i kid you not) eight hours of wipes.
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Apr 2, 2013 16:25
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Kanfy posted:Different opinions about XIII and XIII-2 are all well and good but we need to draw a line somewhere. And that line is that XIII and XIII-2's soundtracks are excellent.
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Apr 2, 2013 20:05
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Bongo Bill posted:Woolsey had nothing to do with FFV PS1, and it shows. I was under the impression that the ps1 version used Ted Woolsey's script from the SNES days. I know that wikipedia and the FF wiki both say that his translation was completed back then, and romhacking agrees as well. But I can't find a particularly good official source on the matter. http://www.romhacking.net/translations/353/
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Apr 2, 2013 23:34
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In fairness to Woolsey, it's not like FF5 has a very good story in any language or translation. Also maybe I'm an idiot for just noticing this, but I realized today that the three SNES/SFAM Final Fantasies all feature multiple world maps. There aren't very many JRPGs that do this, including prior and later Final Fantasies, and it's a really clever trick that lets you get flying transportation and some rudimentary freedom and a sense of empowerment before the endgame while still having gating and some surprises and new things in store. Instead of making a gargantuan world map and not giving you a way to freely explore until the last act, they just replace the map when they feel like it.
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Apr 2, 2013 23:38
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Pyroxene Stigma posted:Xenogears is pretty awesome. If you have any tolerance for PSX RPGs, it's a must-play. Xenogears is basically the single most 90s JRPG ever made. It's beautiful.
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Apr 2, 2013 23:47
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Blind the Thief posted:I was under the impression that the ps1 version used Ted Woolsey's script from the SNES days. I know that wikipedia and the FF wiki both say that his translation was completed back then, and romhacking agrees as well. But I can't find a particularly good official source on the matter.
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Apr 3, 2013 01:06
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So, I'm at the end of disc 3 of FF8 right now, and haven't been paying too much attention to getting great magic, junctions etc. I'm around level 35. Can I just walsh into disc 4 and have any hope to win, or should I take special preperations?
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Apr 3, 2013 01:27
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Grawl posted:So, I'm at the end of disc 3 of FF8 right now, and haven't been paying too much attention to getting great magic, junctions etc. I'm around level 35. Can I just walsh into disc 4 and have any hope to win, or should I take special preperations? I'd go around doing the extra quests and GF's because once you hit disc four, you can't visit any towns or complete any sidequests.
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Apr 3, 2013 01:31
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Grawl posted:So, I'm at the end of disc 3 of FF8 right now, and haven't been paying too much attention to getting great magic, junctions etc. I'm around level 35. Can I just walsh into disc 4 and have any hope to win, or should I take special preperations?
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Apr 3, 2013 01:39
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Col. Roy Campbell posted:I'd go around doing the extra quests and GF's because once you hit disc four, you can't visit any towns or complete any sidequests. Yup, you gotta get all that stuff done before you ram the Ragnarok into Lunatic Pandora. Your level is a moot point, all you gotta worry about is good junctions. As previously stated, you can throw on Enc-None and just grab a ton of powerful magic from the dozens of draw points on the Islands closest to Hell and Heaven, and refine cards and items into the good stuff. I'm guessing you haven't gotten Odin yet, so you can get Death and Triple from his fight.
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Apr 3, 2013 01:44
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Still no consensus on XIII-2? Eh, whatever. Even if I don't like the trilogy, I can laugh about it later.Kanfy posted:It's one of those games that have great writing and atmosphere but the gameplay drags. It's best experienced in a Let's Play form in my opinion because ultimately it's still a game worth seeing. It's definitely worth it to try something new and I do agree with the atmosphere, I just thought the story was a convoluted mess as well, much like Evangelion was. (Unless it's just an issue of bad translation)
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Apr 3, 2013 03:04
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The story is both a convoluted mess and kinda bonkers via translation The basic *story* is simple enough, the worldsetting just contains a lot of extraneous details which don't matter at all.
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Apr 3, 2013 03:06
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Proto Cloud posted:It's definitely worth it to try something new and I do agree with the atmosphere, I just thought the story was a convoluted mess as well, much like Evangelion was. (Unless it's just an issue of bad translation) After thinking on it for a day, I agree with the poster that said it's best experienced in a Let's Play. The platforming that stops responding while the game loads a random battle is loving. infuriating.
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Apr 3, 2013 04:36
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I think watching an LP kind of changes your opinion on things though. I've done that and wasn't really bothered by Serah's character or the story. It might just be because I compared it to the first game (which I also never played myself), but it seemed to "know its place" better. Noel totally should've been Dahj from the future, though.
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Apr 3, 2013 04:41
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Kanfy posted:It's one of those games that have great writing and atmosphere but the gameplay drags. It's best experienced in a Let's Play form in my opinion because ultimately it's still a game worth seeing. That reminds me: The Dark Id hasn't been around in a long time. I hope one of those storms didn't finally get him.  Momomo posted:I think watching an LP kind of changes your opinion on things though. I've done that and wasn't really bothered by Serah's character or the story. It might just be because I compared it to the first game (which I also never played myself), but it seemed to "know its place" better. They were talking about watching an LP of Xenogears, not XIII-2.
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Apr 3, 2013 04:44
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Momomo posted:Noel totally should've been Dahj from the future, though. Did I suddenly stumble into the LOST thread circa 2008?
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Apr 3, 2013 04:44
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Schwartzcough posted:That reminds me: The Dark Id hasn't been around in a long time. I hope one of those storms didn't finally get him.
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Apr 3, 2013 04:57
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Schwartzcough posted:That reminds me: The Dark Id hasn't been around in a long time. I hope one of those storms didn't finally get him. He popped his head out in the NIER thread at the Drakengard 3 announcement. Will be doing an LP of that too.
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Apr 3, 2013 05:02
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I hope he gets to finish his FFX LP. Did he say anything about that? Oh, and to keep things on topic, what's everyone's favorite magic spells? I'm a big fan of Ultima. 
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Apr 3, 2013 05:04
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