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Wait so to declare war, Dai Viet needs to be a tributary of you first? Why would anyone become a tributary of Ming if that meant Ming was now allowed to invade you?
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Apr 5, 2013 03:32
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DrProsek posted:Wait so to declare war, Dai Viet needs to be a tributary of you first? Why would anyone become a tributary of Ming if that meant Ming was now allowed to invade you? You're not reading the nested requirements correctly. That's nested within a "one of" which is nested within an "all of" which is nested within a "one of" requirement, which means there are other possible options to allow you to declare war. This is clearly a super easy and intuitive way to convey extremely important information to the player in a brief manner and isn't difficult to read at all!
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Apr 5, 2013 03:37
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EU3 is occasionally guilty of the same thing (giant tooltips that are basically problems in propositional logic) but baking it into your game as a key feature? That's something else.
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Apr 5, 2013 03:40
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Vivian Darkbloom posted:EU3 is occasionally guilty of the same thing (giant tooltips that are basically problems in propositional logic) but baking it into your game as a key feature? That's something else. Yeah, I wish some of Paradox's games were more clear about that, too, but it has never been that bad, and especially not for such a basic function.
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Apr 5, 2013 03:41
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:You're not reading the nested requirements correctly. That's nested within a "one of" which is nested within an "all of" which is nested within a "one of" requirement, which means there are other possible options to allow you to declare war. This is clearly a super easy and intuitive way to convey extremely important information to the player in a brief manner and isn't difficult to read at all! Ohh, yeah I reread it and I see now that's an OR block, so either Dai Viet is not a tributary, OR they are a known tributary. Follow up question: Why would you invade a known tributary?
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Apr 5, 2013 03:41
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DrProsek posted:Ohh, yeah I reread it and I see now that's an OR block, so either Dai Viet is not a tributary, OR they are a known tributary. I think there are multiple degrees of tributary status, so maybe "known tributary" is like the lowest tier or something? I know I've sometimes been a little bit frustrated having to reverse actions and cancel deals to invade people so maybe a little bit of leniency isn't so bad.
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Apr 5, 2013 03:42
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DrProsek posted:Ohh, yeah I reread it and I see now that's an OR block, so either Dai Viet is not a tributary, OR they are a known tributary. I'm guessing "satellite" has been renamed to "tributary", and a "known tributary" is a satellite that has a weak enough relationship with its liege nation that you can invade it without declaring war on the parent directly? A shorter version of the above is "Ubik".
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Apr 5, 2013 03:44
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Huh I suppose there are reasons the game may want to allow invasions of tributaries/vassals. Still seems to be a ridiculous system (why not a "Tributary status Known or lower" requirement instead?) but I guess that's MM for ya; a few good ideas with questionable implementation.
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Apr 5, 2013 03:48
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MM's budget was the size of CK II's at some point right? What the absolute gently caress did they spend the money on? It still has mostly EU 3 sounds and the map looks like something from 1999.
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Apr 5, 2013 03:54
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:You're not reading the nested requirements correctly. That's nested within a "one of" which is nested within an "all of" which is nested within a "one of" requirement, which means there are other possible options to allow you to declare war. This is clearly a super easy and intuitive way to convey extremely important information to the player in a brief manner and isn't difficult to read at all! BillBear posted:MM's budget was the size of CK II's at some point right? What the absolute gently caress did they spend the money on? It still has mostly EU 3 sounds and the map looks like something from 1999.
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Apr 5, 2013 04:00
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Shorter Than Some posted:Did anyone save the original fear post? I've looked and I can't find it. I quoted some of it in the old thread. I think it started with Ubik implying that Paradox cancelled MM so they could steal all his good ideas and turn them into EUIV: Ubik posted:David, everyone will be informed of everything in due time. But certainly we will be very keen to explain in detail what has been happening since late last year and how we reached a point where a perfectly releasable game got "cancelled". Please notice the quotes. Then we had the giant rant of which this was just a few 'best hits' clippings: Imagine this read by our handsome hero -  Ubik posted:Fear started to creep in... Ubik posted:Fear must be conquered, Paradox. For once in almost three years. For ONCE. It’s just a matter of accepting our extended hand. We never wished you bad. We never wanted to hurt you. You only reaped what you sowed so far. Retribution is a much cherished word here. But there is still time to turn the wrong right, Paradox. There is still time. We both owe it to the Magna Mundi fans. And I am pretty sure both of us want to keep developing games without linguering and potentially ruinous... issues. Ubik posted:we were perceived as a threat and dealt with ruthlessly. From Kersch:  Somewhere in that rant I believe he tried to make some insane case that the Clauswitz engine, or at least the branch that had been modified for Magna Mundi was somehow now his property because the contract had never explicitly said that it wasn't. Or something. Apparently he's been toiling away in secret 'finishing' the game. Which I presume he now intends to try to sell or distribute somehow? Meanwhile, somewhere in Sweden, Fredrick Wester, Paradox CEO, picks up his phone and calls his lawyers. Fear.
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Apr 5, 2013 04:00
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BillBear posted:MM's budget was the size of CK II's at some point right? What the absolute gently caress did they spend the money on? It still has mostly EU 3 sounds and the map looks like something from 1999. Mostly EU3 sounds, yes, but there's that wave/wind noise! That's new! And...yeah. What got me was that the stability hit text was the same. They referred to my Chinese Emperor as "Huangdi," though, which is Chinese for Emperor, so that's a change!
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Apr 5, 2013 04:00
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BillBear posted:MM's budget was the size of CK II's at some point right? What the absolute gently caress did they spend the money on? It still has mostly EU 3 sounds and the map looks like something from 1999. Ubik's still living in a basement (Or does he have a house and just put all his computer poo poo down there?), so it doesn't appear to have been embezzlement. Game budgets are mostly just equipment and personnel, right? Where the hell could it have gone?
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Apr 5, 2013 04:07
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Considering all the half finished garbage Paradox has published and actually allowed to be released, it really says something about Magna Mundi the Game that it managed to get cancelled.
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Apr 5, 2013 04:22
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Kavak posted:Ubik's still living in a basement (Or does he have a house and just put all his computer poo poo down there?), so it doesn't appear to have been embezzlement. Game budgets are mostly just equipment and personnel, right? Where the hell could it have gone? 
Hefty Leftist fucked around with this message at 04:41 on Apr 5, 2013 |
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Apr 5, 2013 04:29
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Wish I could have been a fly on the wall when Wiz got the full, uncensored Ubik/MM briefing. 
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Apr 5, 2013 04:38
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Patter Song posted:Well, Ubik, that's certainly one way of preventing Ming from expanding: If you read through those requirements, it would appear that Dai Vet must both be "a samurai clan" and not be "a samurai clan" at the same time before you can declare war. edit: nevermind, I looked at it again and misread it. Which isn't loving hard to do, by the way.
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Apr 5, 2013 06:15
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Cantorsdust posted:If you read through those requirements, it would appear that Dai Vet must both be "a samurai clan" and not be "a samurai clan" at the same time before you can declare war. Nah, that's not actually it. What it's saying is that to declare war, either you need to not be a samurai clan and they need to be one and your nation be somewhat modernized, or you both need to be samurai clans, or neither of you can be samurai clans. edit: Nevermind, I clicked reply before the ninja edit. It's a silly series of requirements to even list when both countries involved never even have the potential to be samurai clans. It's really weird odd-ball requirements that cannot possibly apply to you that really trip people up, it seems.
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Apr 5, 2013 06:19
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Kavak posted:Ubik's still living in a basement (Or does he have a house and just put all his computer poo poo down there?), so it doesn't appear to have been embezzlement. Game budgets are mostly just equipment and personnel, right? Where the hell could it have gone? Well, just before the UV forums went down, Ubik was claiming to have an office (which had/is a basement, not sure which) as well as Portuguese employees, some of which bravely spoke up in defense of Magna Mundi, usually in ways which indicated that they have no clue what "release-worthy" meant and didn't know the first thing about marketing. For instance, one guy was complaining that multiple months after the initial deadline for Magna Mundi had passed, Paradox was trying not to spread too much publicity about Magna Mundi. Clearly, as Ubik predicted, this was a sign of how The Man was trying to keep Magna Mundi down, and had nothing to do with Magna Mundi being an embarrassing mess of missing features and bugs which they'd like to keep under wraps until it's halfway to being fixed! Anyways, this is glorious news. Please let those of us unwilling to spend the time to download WORLD STAGE know how Ubik's vision has panned out. Edit: uPen posted:I guess Ubik fired that lawyer that's been keeping him quiet for the last few weeks because holy poo poo. Probably ran out of money to pay the man, I'll bet. Tomn fucked around with this message at 07:10 on Apr 5, 2013 |
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Apr 5, 2013 06:59
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:It's a silly series of requirements to even list when both countries involved never even have the potential to be samurai clans. It's really weird odd-ball requirements that cannot possibly apply to you that really trip people up, it seems. e: Also, you want to make sure that human players in MP don't need a CB against each other? Alright. Then make a special CB with the only requirements being "you are human, target is human". Don't wrap the very basic "do you have a CB" condition into yet another OR nest for one of the most common tooltips in the game. NihilCredo fucked around with this message at 07:20 on Apr 5, 2013 |
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Apr 5, 2013 07:16
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Tomn posted:
 .edit: Aaaand I can't figure out how the gently caress to do anything, nothing makes sense, it's running in weird intermittent leaps, and in case I wasn't clear enough, nothing makes sense. A bunch of events I got have broken localization. I'm off to bed now, might try to play again tomorrow when I have more free time, but holy gently caress, whoever else wants to take the plunge, that poo poo is intense. Defeatist Elitist fucked around with this message at 07:31 on Apr 5, 2013 |
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Apr 5, 2013 07:20
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Defeatist Elitist posted:Just launched it up as Venice, hardly done anything, but I immediately noticed, upon selecting my navy, that I cannot scroll down through the list of ships in the fleet, or rather, I can, but it instantly jumps to the top of the list as soon as I do anything. I don't even know what to expect now You're also at war with Milan. I have no idea why, and I have no idea how to get the forces together to beat them up, but good luck!
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Apr 5, 2013 07:33
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DrProsek posted:You're also at war with Milan. I have no idea why, and I have no idea how to get the forces together to beat them up, but good luck! Fear!
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Apr 5, 2013 07:47
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I don't know if this is actually Ubik or not, but poking around a bit, a few weeks ago someone uploaded the demo for World Stage on a Total War forum somewhere. Said person SEEMED to be speaking as though he was a corporate representative, and pointed out Facebook and Twitter links for World Stage (neither of which are very interesting right now - Facebook has a few photos, mostly old Magna Mundi screenshots, and Twitter is empty). He also made a particular claim...Ubik? posted:Universo Virtual owns all the rights, title and interest to the computer engine and the work done. If this actually IS Ubik or a proper representative of Universo Virtual, I'm starting to think they DID decide to fire their lawyer.
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Apr 5, 2013 08:03
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Fintilgin posted:Fear. I SAID LISTEN posted:Fear!  FEEEEAAARRR! Viscardus fucked around with this message at 09:18 on Apr 5, 2013 |
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Apr 5, 2013 08:42
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Viscardus posted:
 For those who might be interested but aren't following it Patter Song is going to at least try to brave the depths of WORLD STAGE and bring back a coherent report in the Steppe Wolfe LP thread.
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Apr 5, 2013 09:39
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:I love it when conducting basic diplomacy requires you to read and understand an essay of requirements for each option. That's actually just an extreme example of a general problem Paradox has - the tooltips on event/decision requirements and effects are often very unclear and require you to at least some degree to adjust to reading scripting language (not so much with CK2).
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Apr 5, 2013 09:58
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Well, there's a Portuguese article hailing World Stage as a new entrance of Portuguese games in the strategy market, about how Paradox wronged Magna Mundi the Game, and how Ubik now owns all Paradox franchises! It's a fun read if you don't mind reading google translated text!Defeatist Elitist posted:Just launched it up as Venice, hardly done anything, but I immediately noticed, upon selecting my navy, that I cannot scroll down through the list of ships in the fleet, or rather, I can, but it instantly jumps to the top of the list as soon as I do anything. I don't even know what to expect now Are you doing that while unpaused? Because well... that happens in all Clausewitz games.
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Apr 5, 2013 10:05
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YF-23 posted:Well, there's a Portuguese article hailing World Stage as a new entrance of Portuguese games in the strategy market, about how Paradox wronged Magna Mundi the Game, and how Ubik now owns all Paradox franchises! It's a fun read if you don't mind reading google translated text! Wait, WHAT? Can somebody who can read Portuguese translate some of the key points? Because if I'm reading Google Translate right, Ubik is claiming that Paradox doesn't own the rights to the Clausewitz engine and something about him being able to press claims against Victoria, Hearts of Iron, EU, etc? I mean, holy gently caress, what? Tomn fucked around with this message at 10:14 on Apr 5, 2013 |
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Apr 5, 2013 10:11
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Paradox, wait till you have another lawyer (+1.5 per year) and then send the lawyer to 'commit sue' in Portugal.
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Apr 5, 2013 10:14
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Tomn posted:Wait, WHAT? Can somebody who can read Portuguese translate some of the key points? Because if I'm reading Google Translate right, Ubik is claiming that Paradox doesn't own the rights to the Clausewitz engine and something about him being able to press claims against Victoria, Hearts of Iron, EU, etc? This is something he's been saying since Magna Mundi was canceled. He claims that since the contract he signed didn't specifically say that he can't claim the entire Clausewitz engine as his own, that he now can and that Paradox should pay him for it. If that sentence made no sense to you, then congrats, you're a human being and are unable to comprehend such a massive leap of logic.
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Apr 5, 2013 10:14
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I think Ubik is mentally ill, no fooling.
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Apr 5, 2013 10:16
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John Charity Spring posted:I think Ubik is mentally ill, no fooling. I don't know about that, maybe if we all visited his basement....
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Apr 5, 2013 10:17
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Nero was less insane than Ubik at this point.
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Apr 5, 2013 10:18
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Patter Song posted:There's a lot of required reading to understand the true depths of hilarity here, but the short version is (and Paradox devs, feel free to correct anything I say that might be wrong): Then of course things went all wrong. The developer diaries started off alright, but it soon became clear that the developers needed the restrictions that modding had forced upon them. Instead of just taking the mod and making a better and less cumbersome version it, with a few bells and whistles, the team went all out on feature bloat.2 That, along with the developers obviously not caring about such things as usability (see Pattersongs screenshot) is what personally started to make me lose hope/interest in the game. It was painfully obvious that allowing Ubik control over the engine (which he owns now) had removed the one thing that kept him from running with his dumber ideas, and now he was implementing every goddamn stupid idea without a care for stuff such as "How does the player know what's going on" and "Is this fun? Like, at all?". During this time, from what I can tell, some of Ubik's underlings realized the sad state of affairs as well, though despite their efforts Ubik somehow managed to retain Paradox support for a while without actually changing anything. Then finally, after being a year late and not even having working diplomacy/war, the project was canceled and there was much schadenfreude in the thread. 1.Technically closed, since Strannik's Map didn't work anymore. Strannik's Map is still the best looking map EU3 ever had in my book, would love to see an updated version in the HD world of EU4. 2.The dumbest feature bloat. since they seem to have been treating the whole thing like modding, instead of actually questioning basic features from EU3. If reading ain't your thing, this image sums the whole thing up (updated for recent events): 
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Apr 5, 2013 10:36
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Moving away from Ubikchat for a while: EU4 dev diary mostly going into detail over how peace negotiations will work. I think the majority of this information has been hinted at or outright stated before but it's nice to have it all in one place. I think the idea of the new system is that most wars will be limited wars over a single province or a trade concession etc. but if the loser tries to hold out for longer than he really should then you'll be able to punish him with more wargoals. The ability to give cores to 3rd parties is a nice addition, and the new peace offering screen is a big improvement over the old one. From the look of the screenshot, making demands in a peace treaty will cost diplo power which is... interesting, though it certainly makes historical sense.
RabidWeasel fucked around with this message at 11:34 on Apr 5, 2013 |
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Apr 5, 2013 11:28
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Still holding out that snake Bohemia/Poland/Lithuania won't happen in EU4. Maybe Wiz will work his magic on the AI.
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Apr 5, 2013 11:52
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I'm guessing that the plan is for AI vs. AI wars to usually conclude with white peace or the victor attaining his original wargoal and nothing else, because of how the warscore calculation works now.
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Apr 5, 2013 13:15
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Tomn posted:Wait, WHAT? Can somebody who can read Portuguese translate some of the key points? Because if I'm reading Google Translate right, Ubik is claiming that Paradox doesn't own the rights to the Clausewitz engine and something about him being able to press claims against Victoria, Hearts of Iron, EU, etc? Pretty much, here are the juicier bits translated by a human machine. Brazilians often make jokes about Portuguese being dumb, but goddamn posted:Let us start from the beginning... "Paradox lost the rights to the code (engine) and is selling about 20 games with this code", claims Carlos Gustavo. I've played the Magna Mundi beta from March last year when it leaked, and it was an horrific unoptimized mess with broken tooltips and multiple crashes. That thing was nowhere ready for launch and would actively harm Paradox' IP, so I can understand why the company decided to cancel the game. It's kind of sad really, Ubik is this kid with a vision and a dream that he lives for, except it is a really dumb vision and a horrible dream he's brought to reality. Playing this demo, I must admit he has two things which I wish Paradox would steal: The political map is the default one when you start the game (rather than terrain) and the ledger has a functional index. Everything else is painful to look at. ZearothK fucked around with this message at 13:40 on Apr 5, 2013 |
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Apr 5, 2013 13:36
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So you having played both the leaked beta and the demo is there any big changes that have occurred in this year of development? Also what kind of loving lawyer have he found that says that he can sue Paradox?
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Apr 5, 2013 13:44
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