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Kennel posted:Great comments To be fair, the IWOJIMA could probably handle Call of Duty 1, maybe even Call of Duty 2.
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Apr 7, 2013 02:43
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Did you grow up never talking to anyone xboxpants? Why do you talk like this?
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Apr 7, 2013 02:44
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Inspector_71 posted:No it isn't. I don't think you understand how reviewing things works. Reviews are purchasing advice. They need to reflect, as accurately as possible, a product that someone can buy. If you review software months before it is available it makes your review less likely to be accurate. Which part of that do you disagree with?
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Apr 7, 2013 02:52
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XboxPants posted:Reviews are purchasing advice. They need to reflect, as accurately as possible, a product that someone can buy. If you review software months before it is available it makes your review less likely to be accurate. EDIT: vvvvvvvvvv Unlike Schrodinger's, when you open this particular box, you get only one result: disappointment. 
JazzFlight fucked around with this message at 02:56 on Apr 7, 2013 |
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Apr 7, 2013 02:53
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It's a finished unit! It's a beta test for retail! It's Schrödinger's Console!
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Apr 7, 2013 02:54
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Sankis posted:Just don't review the Ouya 2 until April 2015 because that's when it really launches. I hope they call it the TWOUYA or 2YA.
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Apr 7, 2013 02:54
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JazzFlight posted:60,000 people are gonna be getting this thing you "can't buy" in the next two months. I think they might want to know what they're in for. They were dumb enough to pre-pay for it, Ouya doesn't care anymore.
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Apr 7, 2013 02:55
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XboxPants posted:
The part where you apply: XboxPants posted:Reviews are purchasing advice. They need to reflect, as accurately as possible, a product that someone can buy. If you review software months before it is available it makes your review less likely to be accurate. http://shop.ouya.tv/ Right now, people can buy an OTATOP. The fact that they won't receive it for a month or so makes no difference.
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Apr 7, 2013 03:00
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JazzFlight posted:60,000 people are gonna be getting this thing you "can't buy" in the next two months. I think they might want to know what they're in for. I agree, actually. I agree. That's why I said that in this unusual case, there is some merit to reviewing the product. They'd be interested to read about the OUYA and find out its faults. So there's a small justification for writing a review of the OUYA in its current state: Backers and other readers are curious. So it's fun to read about, but it doesn't serve much practical purpose. The backers have already paid for it; even if they read that review and decide they don't want to buy an OUYA, it's too late for them now. I Greyhound posted:The part where you apply: Why doesn't that make a difference?
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Apr 7, 2013 03:05
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So has anyone with official OOBLY stars and stripes actually come out and said that non-backer/"proper release" units will use different/less broken hardware? Because out of all the bullshit I've read throughout this thread and the one prior, rewarding backers with unfinished "beta" boxes and then selling fixed versions for the same price to the 12 other people that want one a bit later is the worst. ^^ I think part of the conversation about reviews is saying that the point of a review is to review a thing slightly before the public go out and buy it so they can be informed before buying it. Like a review of Pokemon a few weeks before release or whatever. I know you said you're cool with this X-Pant, but the thinking is that now "it's baked, it's done", it's a good time to get reviews out to people that will buy one. It's down to the reviewers to know what Uhrman is going to make up five minutes into the future about beta units or what have you. PoshAlligator fucked around with this message at 03:12 on Apr 7, 2013 |
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Apr 7, 2013 03:09
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No. In fact they've come out and said the exact opposite. Even with that ignored, I don't know how people could believe otherwise. They literally just started manufacturing them. That'd give them 2 months to revise the hardware and line up manufacturing.
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Apr 7, 2013 03:11
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JazzFlight posted:EDIT: Actually, if you open it, take the board out, and put valuables in it, you get a nice safe since no one wants to steal an OUYA.
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Apr 7, 2013 03:11
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Sankis posted:They literally just started manufacturing them. That'd give them 2 months to revise the hardware and line up manufacturing. So all the dev OUYAs and the ones shown off at the launch party (including the ones reviewed by PA and the Verge) are beta copies? E: What I also mean to say is, it's fair and easy to say that reviewers shouldn't represent unfinished products as completed when they are evaluating them, but at this point I think it's reasonable for The Verge to believe that the copy they have is representative of the final product since it's something they got during the launch. What would compel OUYA inc to show off uncompleted products at their launch party? The Saddest Rhino fucked around with this message at 03:19 on Apr 7, 2013 |
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Apr 7, 2013 03:13
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Sankis posted:No. In fact they've come out and said the exact opposite. While this relieves me somewhat, it does make me worry for the OHNO community, so insistent as they are that everything will be okay. Whoever wins, we lose. e: It's all too much I just can't stop laughing.
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Apr 7, 2013 03:13
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Sankis posted:No. In fact they've come out and said the exact opposite. Yeah, I think it's totally practical to review hardware early. Like you say, it's not going to change much in such a short amount of time. I'm specifically talking about software. I'll say it again to be clear: in the OUYA's case, the Verge review was helpful to people because it helped inform backers about what they were getting. It was too late to help them make a purchasing decision, but at least it lets them satisfy they're curiosity. It also totally made sense to review the hardware early. But moving on from OUYA, it seems like some people here are saying they think it's totally fine to review software months before it is available to consumers. I have a simple question. In what practical way does it better serve the reader to review software months before it's available, as opposed to when it becomes available to consumers?
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Apr 7, 2013 03:21
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XboxPants posted:In what practical way does it better serve the reader to review software months before it's available, as opposed to when it becomes available to consumers? So that people who didn't back the kickstarter can make an informed decision on whether to buy those units secondhand? You saw those ebay listings for over three hundred dollars.
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Apr 7, 2013 03:23
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XboxPants posted:In what practical way does it better serve the reader to review software months before it's available, as opposed to when it becomes available to consumers? You're working from a flawed assumption: that it isn't available to consumers. It is. Shop.ouya.tv allows me to purchase an OUYA, 60k people are getting them after having paid money, how is this not "available"?
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Apr 7, 2013 03:25
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:You're working from a flawed assumption: that it isn't available to consumers. It is. Shop.ouya.tv allows me to purchase an OUYA, 60k people are getting them after having paid money, how is this not "available"? He's confusing "shipping/shipped" with "purchased."
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Apr 7, 2013 03:26
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Inspector_71 posted:If you want to get technical you could say they should state the review is for the Backer version and the retail may be different, but that's a seriously hollow caveat. Yeah. Honestly I don't see why there should be any significant difference between the "backer" and retail units anyway. I was under the presumption that those who helped fund the kickstarter were to receive functional (or at least the equivalent standard to which OUYA holds itself) units, not, like, Dev Kit 2.0.
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Apr 7, 2013 03:30
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Beef Assistant posted:Yeah. Honestly I don't see why there should be any significant difference between the "backer" and retail units anyway. I was under the presumption that those who helped fund the kickstarter were to receive functional (or at least the equivalent standard to which OUYA holds itself) units, not, like, Dev Kit 2.0. Oh well they said this is an exclusive preview period which is obviously the same as saying "BETA DO NOT REVIEW!"
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Apr 7, 2013 03:31
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Inspector_71 posted:He's confusing "shipping/shipped" with "purchased." That's why I avoided the word "purchased". I was very careful to do so - instead, I used the word "available", which I felt was more like what you said, "shipped". But, you're right, I'm having a really hard time with words like "released", "buy", and "purchase". I'm worried that if I say "the OUYA is not yet available for purchase" or "you can't actually buy one", people will argue with me since you can pre-order them. For instance, a few pages ago I was talking about how I wish I had an OUYA so I could review games, but right now there's no way for me to actually purchase one since they're not released yet. I feel like my meaning is quite clear there, and that it makes sense to use "purchase" and "released" in that way. But am I wrong? Is there a better way to phrase it? I just want to avoid semantic debates because I'm using words that don't mean what I think they mean. If there is no way for me to pay money and receive an OUYA, does it really make sense to say that it is already "released"? If you can pre-order a product, is that the same thing as saying you can purchase it? I'm just trying to figure out what words I should use that people won't have a problem with.
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Apr 7, 2013 03:32
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Well, to be honest dude, people did pay money and they are receiving Ouyas. That's exactly what's happening. They made no indication that this was somehow incomplete as far as I can tell.
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Apr 7, 2013 03:34
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Fergus Mac Roich posted:Well, to be honest dude, people did pay money and they are receiving Ouyas. That's exactly what's happening. They made no indication that this was somehow incomplete as far as I can tell. Yeah, but that's not the current situation. Right now there's no way for me to pay money and get an OUYA except for the occasional units showing up on eBay. And most of the listings right now are for people that don't even have them yet. The Saddest Rhino posted:So all the dev OUYAs and the ones shown off at the launch party (including the ones reviewed by PA and the Verge) are beta copies? I'm in definite agreement there, and that's another reason why the Verge & co reviews were relatively reasonable. OUYA should have been way, way clearer about the status of these devices if they didn't want them to be reviewed. XboxPants fucked around with this message at 03:40 on Apr 7, 2013 |
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Apr 7, 2013 03:37
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XboxPants posted:That's why I avoided the word "purchased". I was very careful to do so - instead, I used the word "available", which I felt was more like what you said, "shipped". You understand you are making up your own definitions for words at this point, right?
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Apr 7, 2013 03:39
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Think of it like this instead. 60,000 people pre-ordered a new console and then it sold out. Don't worry, you can be put on a waiting list and it will ship in 2 more months. Meanwhile, those first 60,000 will be getting theirs. This thing should be reviewed the second the backers get it. They can't be expected to leave it in the closet for two months and wait for it to "bake" a little more. If this was a completely free closed beta test with an NDA, then it'd be different. These people spent money. The comments on Destructoid's coverage of the goofy "don't review us yet" announcement are more level-headed than Techcrunch's ones. http://www.destructoid.com/these-things-take-time-ouya-reacts-to-early-reviews-250969.phtml
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Apr 7, 2013 03:40
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Inspector_71 posted:You understand you are making up your own definitions for words at this point, right? He's as good a spin-marketing man as I've ever seen. Julie Uhlnar, you need him on your team.
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Apr 7, 2013 03:42
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JazzFlight posted:Think of it like this instead. This makes sense, I can completely agree with all of this. From now on, I'll probably just quote your post if my thoughts about the validity of the "early" reviews come up again. Thank you for trying to help me think of those reviews in a different light; you have succeeded. Inspector_71 posted:You understand you are making up your own definitions for words at this point, right? I was just trying to ask if that's what "purchase" meant.  What is the word, then, for "order and acquire something"? I know it's stupid to argue about words, but people are telling me I can't use the word "purchase" to refer to this. Rather than argue about the definition of the word, I'd rather just find one everyone can agree on. So what word can I use?
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Apr 7, 2013 03:49
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XboxPants posted:So what word can I use? I think you should stop using words at all
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Apr 7, 2013 03:51
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XboxPants I don't see an answer to this:MrBims posted:So that people who didn't back the kickstarter can make an informed decision on whether to buy those units secondhand? You saw those ebay listings for over three hundred dollars. Edit: Oh, well, there is also this post below. Unless they have somehow have some block set up after you log in through PayPal, which would be completely unprecedented, then that process to order takes you all the way. MrBims fucked around with this message at 03:56 on Apr 7, 2013 |
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Apr 7, 2013 03:53
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XboxPants posted:Yeah, but that's not the current situation. Right now there's no way for me to pay money and get an OUYA except for the occasional units showing up on eBay. And most of the listings right now are for people that don't even have them yet. Right now at https://www.ouya.tv   And so on. Pay money, get Ouya.
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Apr 7, 2013 03:53
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Conclusions posted:Google "microconsole" and you find another article, written by the same guy. http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/184465/2013_The_year_of_the_microconsole.php Well how convenient that he can make up rules for what a "microconsole" is or is not as he goes along to justify his sunk cost. Can I have microconsoles at my microbrewery?
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Apr 7, 2013 03:55
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At what point did it become acceptable to say that the console is not released? How can anybody look at the kick starter campaign and not think that the console is out (or done or baked, which you would have to be to think this is going well...)? It is a massive bait and switch. Looking back at their initial video, I thought that it was a great premise at the time. The video also heavily implied it was something that it wasn't. Highly produced marketing video making them look like they were much further ahead. The console is released. The operating system is released. The OS and firmware may be patched just like most games these days are. IT'S loving RELEASED. Stop deluding yourself unless you need to make yourself feel better by doing it. Next thing you'll tell me is that we have always been at war with Eurasia.
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Apr 7, 2013 03:58
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bagina posted:At what point did it become acceptable to say that the console is not released? After it got some bad reviews.
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Apr 7, 2013 04:01
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XboxPants posted:Oh, you're going to argue semantics. If you don't want people reviewing your software, you don't send it out to the media. If you absolutely have to, you put up giant "THIS SOFTWARE IS IN DEVELOPMENT" warning every time the system boots up. e: XboxPants posted:Reviews are purchasing advice. They need to reflect, as accurately as possible, a product that someone can buy. If you review software months before it is available it makes your review less likely to be accurate. If you throw a dead cat off a high rise, it theoretically could fly away, but realistically it's not going to change trajectory. Same here. boo_radley fucked around with this message at 04:10 on Apr 7, 2013 |
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Apr 7, 2013 04:02
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raditts posted:Well how convenient that he can make up rules for what a "microconsole" is or is not as he goes along to justify his sunk cost. Well what microconsole actually means is " not actually a console" sooo... he's accurate about it being a microconsole I'd say.
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Apr 7, 2013 04:02
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MrBims posted:XboxPants I don't see an answer to this: Yeah, that, along with deciding whether to sell your system on eBay, is another reason it makes sense to review the OUYA right now. But it's really just an edge case and I think JazzFlight's answer is better. bagina posted:At what point did it become acceptable to say that the console is not released? How can anybody look at the kick starter campaign and not think that the console is out (or done or baked, which you would have to be to think this is going well...)? It is a massive bait and switch. I think the word I should use in this case, instead of "released", is "available". It's released, and thus open to any level of criticism. It's just not available because of a long wait list. boo_radley posted:If you don't want people reviewing your software, you don't send it out to the media. If you absolutely have to, you put up giant "THIS SOFTWARE IS IN DEVELOPMENT" warning every time the system boots up. If you're implying that they sent out review units to media, that didn't actually happen, the reviews were just Kickstarter units. But that's a small detail; JazzFlight's point still holds, and it still made sense to review the systems. XboxPants fucked around with this message at 04:05 on Apr 7, 2013 |
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Apr 7, 2013 04:02
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XboxPants posted:If you're implying that they sent out review units to media, that didn't actually happen, the reviews were just Kickstarter units. But that's a small detail; JazzFlight's point still holds, and it still made sense to review the systems. quote:So let’s be upfront about a couple of things.
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Apr 7, 2013 04:10
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Tarranon posted:What exactly are they hoping modders and devs do with the Ouya? Why is everyone saying "Well, sure it sucks now, but think about what people might do...in the future!" I'm more curious as to what they think people will do to take advantage of the OPEN DESIGN (meaning you can take out the screws and OPEN this little trash can to get at the little SoC inside). Waffleman_ posted:Actually, if you open it, take the board out, and put valuables in it, you get a nice safe since no one wants to steal an OUYA. There's always money in the BANOUYA STAND.
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Apr 7, 2013 04:11
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zylche posted:via Techcrunch's article You're right. I was thinking that the party was just for backers, but they totally did invite press, and then give them systems. No way around that. PoshAlligator posted:I think part of the conversation about reviews is saying that the point of a review is to review a thing slightly before the public go out and buy it so they can be informed before buying it. Like a review of Pokemon a few weeks before release or whatever. Before I forget, I also wanted to say that even though this is a common practice, it's still something you have to be careful with. Something like Pokemon is fine, but if it's software that can be updated - like SimCity - it's best to wait until release.
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Apr 7, 2013 04:15
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XboxPants posted:If you're implying that they sent out review units to media, that didn't actually happen, the reviews were just Kickstarter units. But that's a small detail; JazzFlight's point still holds, and it still made sense to review the systems. I'm not implying poo poo: If you send out software before it's ready -- you warn people at every opportunity. Media reviewers, crustbeards, whatever. THIS IS NOT PRODUCTION SOFTWARE. Doesn't matter if you're showing your mother or your husband or your realdoll. THIS IS NOT PRODUCTION SOFTWARE.
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Apr 7, 2013 04:17
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