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I personally would do Kyokushin since you don't get punched in the face and don't have to worry about gloves and wraps and whatnot. Kyokushin owns. If you want to do MMA down the road, do MT.
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Apr 9, 2013 14:31
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no head shots is appealing and i dunno theres just something cool about putting on a gi and trading body punches. You will certainly learn some bad mma habits with keeping your hands low but if you don't want to be a fight'a then who cares.Mechafunkzilla posted:I personally would do Kyokushin since you don't get punched in the face and don't have to worry about gloves and wraps and whatnot. Kyokushin owns. Do they wrap their hands in Kyokushin? I thought they did.
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Apr 9, 2013 14:50
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Xguard86 posted:no head shots is appealing and i dunno theres just something cool about putting on a gi and trading body punches. You will certainly learn some bad mma habits with keeping your hands low but if you don't want to be a fight'a then who cares. Pretty sure you don't. I know the few times I've taken KK classes we didn't, and every KK competition I've ever seen was bare knuckle with no wraps. I believe Oyama made a distinct point out of sparring not requiring any extra equipment -- to the point where they'd rather disallow punches to the head than wear gloves. I mean, I don't see why you'd want to wear wraps anyway considering you're only throwing body shots. I guess maybe it'd protect you a little if you punched an elbow or something.
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Apr 9, 2013 14:56
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Wraps also provide wrist support, which is good for body punching since you can catch weird angles.
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Apr 9, 2013 17:50
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Thats what I was thinking, I was really glad for the wraps when I got tired and hit the bag at a bad angle. I rushed getting ready a couple of times and didn't wrap right and def noticed extra soreness and some swelling in my knuckles. This was from a pretty light guy with little striking experience, I can't imagine how bad it'd be if you could really throw with power. Plus wrapping your hands is a really cool exercise to get your mind into fight mode and always made me feel like badass. I'd wrap my hands for bjj and judo if that wasn't insane. Maybe when I get better at judo I can mummify my fingers in tape.
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Apr 9, 2013 19:02
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My jits club is based out of a Kyokushin-kai school, and I see the very lowest belts wearing shin protectors and gloves, while the higher belts spar without, but I imagine that varies from club to club. Afaik there's no protection worn during tournaments, though.
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Apr 9, 2013 19:08
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I ordered a Tatami Nova as my first gi, size A1. At 5'9" and 135 lbs I'm outside the recommended height range but at the low end of the weight range, so I thought this size might work, but I'm concerned about shrinkage, mainly in the sleeves. Based on my research, the sleeves will lose about 3cm after a warm water wash. Here is the gi fresh out of the package. Should I send it back and get an A2? 
The Duck of Death fucked around with this message at 19:28 on Apr 9, 2013 |
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Apr 9, 2013 19:26
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Bohemian Nights posted:My jits club is based out of a Kyokushin-kai school, and I see the very lowest belts wearing shin protectors and gloves, while the higher belts spar without, but I imagine that varies from club to club. Afaik there's no protection worn during tournaments, though. This is pretty much how we do it at my place, though I practice Enshin instead. It's usually safer for the newer people to start off with equipment like that before going without.
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Apr 9, 2013 19:37
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the gi looks fine just wash in cold and air dry to avoid shrinkage.
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Apr 9, 2013 19:44
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Your belt is upsetting me in an irrational way. 
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Apr 9, 2013 20:04
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Because of how/where it's tied or because it's white on white
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Apr 9, 2013 20:09
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Just because it's tied so loosely. I don't harbor seething hatred for white belts.
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Apr 9, 2013 20:10
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The Duck of Death posted:I ordered a Tatami Nova as my first gi, size A1. At 5'9" and 135 lbs I'm outside the recommended height range but at the low end of the weight range, so I thought this size might work, but I'm concerned about shrinkage, mainly in the sleeves. Based on my research, the sleeves will lose about 3cm after a warm water wash. BJJ right? Its fine, for judo if you wear a tight shrunken gi especially as a white belt its a little goofy, but BJJ people are the fashion conscious dorks of the mma community so you can have a slim fit with shorter sleeves and no one will mind. Just do your belt up properly
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Apr 10, 2013 01:04
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What the hell is Shuai Chiao? We have a club on campus, and I'm all over new experiences and what not. I've never seen or heard of it before. After some googling, I see that it's like Chinese wrestling? Is this correct??
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Apr 10, 2013 02:29
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Smoking Crow posted:What the hell is Shuai Chiao? We have a club on campus, and I'm all over new experiences and what not. I've never seen or heard of it before. After some googling, I see that it's like Chinese wrestling? Is this correct?? Shuai jiao, literally just Mandarin for "wrestling". It's pretty cool, it has way-back ties to Mongolian folk wrestling. They wear a sleeveless gi, and you lose if you touch the ground with anything other than your feet, like sumo. If you do judo or sambo you'll be right at home. I have a shuai jiao jacket in my closet somewhere from when I dabbled in it when I was living in Shanghai.
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Apr 10, 2013 03:08
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Tell me you guys are talking about the weird asian folk wrestling with the pink jackets that are only sleeves and the man-diapers.
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Apr 10, 2013 03:10
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Novum posted:Tell me you guys are talking about the weird asian folk wrestling with the pink jackets that are only sleeves and the man-diapers. That's Mongolian folk wrestling. Shuai jiao has opposite uniforms -- pants, jackets and belts, but no sleeves.
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Apr 10, 2013 03:12
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Xguard86 posted:Do they wrap their hands in Kyokushin? I thought they did. Not in my experience. My knuckles were torn up like crazy for the first month or so of sparring.
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Apr 10, 2013 03:13
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Mechafunkzilla posted:Shuai jiao, literally just Mandarin for "wrestling". It's pretty cool, it has way-back ties to Mongolian folk wrestling. They wear a sleeveless gi, and you lose if you touch the ground with anything other than your feet, like sumo. If you do judo or sambo you'll be right at home. I have a shuai jiao jacket in my closet somewhere from when I dabbled in it when I was living in Shanghai. Anybody good at judo could cross over to shuaijiao easily. The old non-sport rules shuaijiao styles allowed strikes, which meant the techniques had to work with quite a variety of resistance. One of the shuaijiao masters in the early part of the 20th century was undefeated in traveling and challenging other kungfu masters. Given the techniques and training methods used by some classical CMA, that's not that surprising, and isn't great testament to shuaijiao's effectiveness. Supporting evidence is that dude clearly lifted once in a while:  Shuaijiao has a certain look to it. Some of its moves and techniques are seen in other CMA, like Taichi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLZmH9jR5eo
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Apr 10, 2013 03:33
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Thanks guys. Yeah, it's for BJJ. Obviously I won't be rolling/drilling with the belt tied that loose.
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Apr 10, 2013 03:50
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Amazing thread, this is exactly the sort of thing I've been looking for recently. Forgive the incoming word dump, I'm a newbie to the thread: A little background: About a month ago, I was visiting my girlfriend in Austin for the big SXSW festival up there. As anyone knows who has done that festival recently, parking is a clusterfuck. Even getting out into the city fairly early in the morning, we ended up having to park behind a dumpster in some ratty alleyway in a not-great part of town. Whatever, it's fine, we found parking, we go out and have a great time. Fast forward to 3am, the two of us are walking back to the car when, surprise!, a big scruffy dude jumps out from behind the dumpster with his right hand stuffed ominously in his coat and demands our wallets. I must be living well, because a big group turned into the alley just a second later, and the guy got spooked and ran off. At first I was just relieved, but the more I thought about it the more uneasy I got. A mugging is one thing, even if that group hadn't shown up I'd only have lost a couple hundred bucks tops; I can live with that, that's not worth my life. But I started ruminating on what if that group hadn't shown up, and the guy hadn't just wanted our money? I mean, I'm not a tiny guy, 5'10" and 160 lbs of mostly muscle, but I haven't been in a fight since I was 12. If it had come down to a 'fight or your girlfriend gets raped/you die' situation, I honestly have no idea how I would've fared. So over the last week or so I've been poking around doing research and stumbled on this awesome thread! tl;dr: My girlfriend and I almost got mugged; in retrospect I'm not sure I would've been able to defend us if it had been necessary, I wish to remedy that deficiency The styles that seem most promising given my limited research thus far: Muay Thai: I like the emphasis on quick, accurate striking, since I'm guessing that any real world no-holds-barred fight between two fully grown males is going to be decided primarily by who gets the first solid shot in. Also, in all the real-life fights I've seen (and been a part of), everyone seems to completely forget that they have legs and just go 100% punches. I feel like someone with solid kickboxing training could pretty easily land one good gut kick and peace out while the other party struggles to breathe again. BJJ: Again, I'm not tiny but I'm not huge either, so I really like the idea of a fighting style that can help overcome the disadvantages of having to fight someone bigger than you. Krav Maga: I have mixed feelings. On one hand I absolutely love that this style seems to put so much emphasis on real-world defense. On the other hand, I feel like its popularity has led to a kind of "Hey guys! Wanna be a badass action hero? Come learn Krav Maga!" sort of advertising from a lot of places, which I find rather off-putting. Let me know if I'm way off-base with any of these statements, but that's been my impression of these styles thus far. Do any Houston goons know of any good school+sparring programs for these styles in the area (preferably near the medical center, but I'm willing to drive a ways for a good school if need be)? There seems to be gently caress-all for Muay Thai-a few classes but seemingly no sparring, which I feel is a deal breaker. For BJJ I found this: Rilion Gracie Jiu-Jitsu Academy, which seems very professional and legit, though the FAQ seems to downplay sparring, which worries me a bit. For Krav Maga, these guys seemed ok: Krav Maga Houston, but their reviews make them seem a bit shady: http://www.yelp.com/biz/krav-maga-houston-houston.
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Apr 10, 2013 04:35
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sentientcarbon posted:For BJJ I found this: Rilion Gracie Jiu-Jitsu Academy, which seems very professional and legit, though the FAQ seems to downplay sparring, which worries me a bit. Gracie BJJ is famous and a million times more respectable than krav maga. I took a quick look at the faq and they're not downplaying sparring so much as saying "don't expect to roll on your first day"
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Apr 10, 2013 04:45
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sentientcarbon, you're thinking about total self-defense the wrong way. Your interest in unarmed techniques and the fitness to back that up is fine, but it is no substitute for actual self defense strategies and training (aka guns and running). Training Muay Thai or BJJ is trying to be really awesome in 5% of possible bad scenarios.
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Apr 10, 2013 04:59
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Honest to god, as a die-hard muay thai lover, the only two martial arts that are remotely useful in a fight or die situation are boxing and BJJ. While you may think that kicking is of use, it's really only of use if you have two people who know what they're doing. Even in these cases, boxing nearly always wins. The most important thing that boxing teaches you that a lot of people take for granted is how to move effectively. A lot of asian martial arts and those types of systems (krav maga, etc) teach you a lot of neat flashy techniques, but what people don't realize is how difficult it is to develop the necessary eyes and judge of distance to land those techniques. Boxing teaches how to move in and out of range wonderfully. In addition, learning how to land punches from multiple angles is a lot more difficult than you think. Lastly, as applies directly to your case, learning proper boxing footwork is vital for escaping.
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Apr 10, 2013 05:08
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SentientCarbon, if you get mugged, give them your money and jacket. That's my real world self defense advice. If someone is creeping you out and maybe startles you, go ahead and pepper spray them if you have to and parkour the hell out of there. You trying to Krav Maga someone is going to probably get you hurt. Trying to anything someone will probably get you hurt. But if you have to choose something for practical defense, take Judo or BJJ and get used to wrestling around with someone for real. Maga is Jason Bourne larping and you won't get to choke someone out with their own jacket.
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Apr 10, 2013 05:32
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Muay Thai has plenty of techniques that are useful in self defense, even if the roundhouse kick isn't one of them. Throwing elbows is safer than punching as you are less likely to break your hand or cut it on their teeth, especially wearing a jacket. Clinch techniques and knee strikes work very well on drunk guys getting close. knees to the stomach or balls come from a weird angle for most untrained brawlers, and are hard to block. Teep kicks are pretty safe and hurt like hell if you have shoes on and point your toes instead of pushing. I've honestly never seen a street fight go to the ground, so I instinctively would not think that bjj is very useful in a situation like that, and the risk of getting soccer kicked by someones buddy while you grapple with them seems pretty high?
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Apr 10, 2013 05:38
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You can still choke someone out from a standing position. If you're quick about it too, it's probably the safest way to end a situation you stupidly got yourself into like a big dumb moron idiot.
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Apr 10, 2013 05:42
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eine dose socken posted:I've honestly never seen a street fight go to the ground You haven't seen many street fights, then. quote:the risk of getting soccer kicked by someones buddy while you grapple with them seems pretty high? Most streetfights I've seen involve somebody tackling somebody. If you've taken bjj, or another viable groundfighting art, you'll be working to either sweep the guy on top of you, or get out from under him, while his buddy attempts to soccer kick you. If you haven't taken bjj or another viable groundfighting art, you'll be lying there swallowing your teeth while his buddy soccer kicks you.
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Apr 10, 2013 05:43
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eine dose socken posted:Muay Thai has plenty of techniques that are useful in self defense, even if the roundhouse kick isn't one of them. Yeah, I guess I forgot about clinching and knees. But by god do not think that an elbow will do anything. They're mostly annoying pokes rather than knock out punches. I would not point my toes while teeping even with shoes on though. Also, almost every fight goes to the ground. More than anything I would learn grappling before striking. edit: but don't think that grappling in real life is like grappling on the street. Grappling on concrete loving hurts like hell
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Apr 10, 2013 05:52
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I've seen plenty, but they never went to the ground, maybe we dirty Germans don't have the wrestling instincts/football training you Americans have. They have all been really sloppy boxing and close up brawling, zero ground time. Although people here really like to hit each other with beer bottles and or beer mugs, so that's something to watch out for..
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Apr 10, 2013 05:52
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mewse posted:Gracie BJJ is famous and a million times more respectable than krav maga. I took a quick look at the faq and they're not downplaying sparring so much as saying "don't expect to roll on your first day" Great! I'll definitely give them a second look. kimbo305 posted:sentientcarbon, you're thinking about total self-defense the wrong way. Your interest in unarmed techniques and the fitness to back that up is fine, but it is no substitute for actual self defense strategies and training (aka guns and running). Training Muay Thai or BJJ is trying to be really awesome in 5% of possible bad scenarios. Yeah, I'm mainly interested in unarmed techniques as a way of defending myself when running isn't an option (for example, my girlfriend was wearing heels that night, so running really wasn't going to be practical), without anybody (hopefully) having to die, which is pretty much inevitable when guns come out. Guilty posted:Honest to god, as a die-hard muay thai lover, the only two martial arts that are remotely useful in a fight or die situation are boxing and BJJ. While you may think that kicking is of use, it's really only of use if you have two people who know what they're doing. Even in these cases, boxing nearly always wins. I'm not doubting your experience, but could you explain why boxing seems to be more useful? Just intuitively, I would expect someone trained to strike with four limbs to be more dangerous than someone trained to strike with two. Novum posted:SentientCarbon, if you get mugged, give them your money and jacket. That's my real world self defense advice. If someone is creeping you out and maybe startles you, go ahead and pepper spray them if you have to and parkour the hell out of there. I'm right there with you, I'm totally willing to write muggings off as a loss, it's the guys who might want more than money that I'm thinking about. eine dose socken posted:Muay Thai has plenty of techniques that are useful in self defense, even if the roundhouse kick isn't one of them. This is pretty much my (admittedly inexperienced) thinking. From what of seen, most people can't stand up to one solid punch/kick, so that would seem the more expedient method than getting them to the ground (unless they're way bigger than you and their greater reach makes this all impractical).
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Apr 10, 2013 05:53
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eine dose socken posted:I've seen plenty, but they never went to the ground, maybe we dirty Germans don't have the wrestling instincts/football training you Americans have. Maybe it's because all the fights I've seen are mainly from bouncers who have to throw out awful tourists from clubs in Berlin. sentientcarbon posted:I'm not doubting your experience, but could you explain why boxing seems to be more useful? Just intuitively, I would expect someone trained to strike with four limbs to be more dangerous than someone trained to strike with two. Even in ring fights, boxing is one of the most important skills to have. While having a good leg game makes or breaks fights, usually it's because you have or need a good basic boxing game. Nearly all fighters who fight real striking competitions and win regularly are good boxers at the least, doesn't matter if it's muay thai, MMA, kickboxing. Maybe savate is different, but even then, a good boxer will dominate in savate. I guess what I'm saying is, if you want quick and easy self-defense, learn boxing. You can't go wrong. Even if you decide to branch out to other arts later, you will be a monster at whatever you choose. Also, most people CAN stand up to most punches or kicks. It's a punch or a kick thrown by someone who knows what they're doing that most people can't stand. Guilty fucked around with this message at 06:00 on Apr 10, 2013 |
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Apr 10, 2013 05:54
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Boxing gives you a fast and stable base. You can scoot around quickly, move your head and torso very fast, and get your weight behind pushes very quickly. I have some thoughts on the relative ineffectiveness of elbows and knees: - elbows and knees both swing on much shorter radii than punches or kicks, and don't benefit from the speed multiplication through the lower leg or forearm. - they tend to "bind up" at the end of their travel, reducing their speed and thus power. I'd much rather take an elbow or knee over its last 3 inches of travel than a punch. - a lot of places don't train you to use elbows to the same degree of finesse as other strikes, presumably for practical reasons. You can drill a lot, but few places will have you regularly chopping your elbows at your partners' heads with the same force as punches and kicks. For me personally, this is purely a sport, and I immediately do a foul response (back away, signal "sorry" with hands) when I accidentally clip someone's face with a knee (our sparring ruleset is body knees only). In fact, I take special care to aim knees to the body that would otherwise be great for the head. I'm curious how easy or hard it is to retrain yourself to go full powered in a knees and elbows ruleset. Back to self defense. And this is all purely theoretical -- you need your most-practiced, most reflexive techniques at hand if you ever wanted to use them effectively. I've elbowed pads every now and then, but I've punched people in the face hundreds. I could do a 1-2-3 very very readily. I doubt I could instinctively tie someone's head up and flat or overhand elbow. 95% of my training has prepared me to never throw those. Phrost and the people at Bullshido have this saying "you can always add dirt," meaning you can mix in stuff you wouldn't normally do in the confines of rules. That's true. But it's still better to have an amazing bread and butter combo that works off the bat than to have to go to stuff you don't usually do.
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Apr 10, 2013 06:28
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxe9pTqPwDk Be a good boxer
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Apr 10, 2013 06:52
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sentientcarbon posted:I'm not doubting your experience, but could you explain why boxing seems to be more useful? Just intuitively, I would expect someone trained to strike with four limbs to be more dangerous than someone trained to strike with two. My 2 cents: in a movie or under a rule set where you compete with four limbs, then yes. But you won't really kick in a street fight, unless it's a soccer kick on someone who is already down. Guilty there is 100% right about the footwork and distancing stuff too. As an anecdote, not long ago someone tried to repeatedly punch me in the face in anger and could not, because I have boxed and he had not. Then again I could punch him in the face when I wanted to, and he could do nothing to prevent this, because I had boxed and he... I only noticed after the fact that I was calm and had slid into boxing ring mode without thinking - and I'm not even bad amateur level at boxing. Listen to these guys, boxing is all practical stuff that works and zero bullshit of untested theory. Instead of having dozens of techniques for whatever scenarios you can never commit to muscle memory unless you train for 40 years, you simply use two hands to throw a few punches and learn how to stop stuff that is coming at your face. You could become a semi-decent boxer in a year, which means you can already punch someone and have them not punch you. You could practice Krav Maga for who knows how long, depending on the school, and still not be able to do those two things. Grappling is also good because you can wrestle and throw or choke someone and at least know how to break or defend them if they try to grab or choke YOU. Both will give you confidence and that is good, because being calm and confident is a deterrent. (FYI I have done kickboxing/MT/Savate/SD/boxing/BJJ all at some point or other.) Ligur fucked around with this message at 11:10 on Apr 10, 2013 |
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Apr 10, 2013 11:02
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Anyone got anything good or bad to say about Budoshin jujitsu or the American Jujitsu Association? The system seems to be affiliated with George Kirby although the guy I'd be training under is two degrees of separation his junior. I haven't trained in several years but I ran into a guy at the gym who teaches and I was thinking of stopping by his class to see what they're all about. I used to be a regular in this thread but it's been so long I don't know if anyone will remember me. I trained in several different systems as a result of moving around, so I never acquired anything approaching mastery in any of them. My base was Wado-ryu karate; also had significant experience in Isshin-ryu karate and Filipino martial arts (a bit of Pekiti-tirsia, moved away, more substantial experience in Kali Ilustrisimo), and dabblings in other systems. So I'm acquainted with what makes a good school and teacher, just looking for info on this particular system and verifying that the umbrella organization is legitimate. Please, no opinions from people on the basis that it "sounds Japanese" or that I should "just train BJJ." The class schedule and location here would work well and I'd like to know if I should be interested or if I'd be wasting my time. I'm not necessarily looking for the most combatives-focused thing around, but I'd like to be doing reasonably practically-minded stuff.
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Apr 10, 2013 12:05
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guppy posted:Anyone got anything good or bad to say about Budoshin jujitsu or the American Jujitsu Association? The system seems to be affiliated with George Kirby although the guy I'd be training under is two degrees of separation his junior. If you're looking for something practical-minded, Japanese jiu-jitsu has the same aliveness problem as a lot of other traditional martial arts. Stick to something that has full-resistance sparring as a core part of training.
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Apr 10, 2013 14:03
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That site doesn't really say enough to judge. They might have schools in their org that really spar and they might have some that do flips and yell "fireball". I agree with Mechafunkzilla, the odds are high a JJJ school isn't doing real sparring or alive training. RE self defense: The only adult fight I've ever been in, I used double underhooks to pin a dude who jumped on my friend (who was fighting his friend) to the wall while he threw drunken haymakers over my head then someone yelled cops and everyone ran off. I had a semi-fight where a friend blind side tackled me, I scooted out from guard to his back and held him in the referee position until he relaxed. Once again, W.R.E.A.M.
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Apr 10, 2013 16:47
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Re self defense boxing chat. Besides the excellent footwork that will let you get yourself to an angle where you can run away the jab is an excellent punch in a street fight. A good jab can let you stun a guy and run. A jab can keep them at a good distance. The only time a jab really won't help is if they bullrush in and try to ugly double leg you. But seriously don't fight in the street or think about self defense in terms of I have to hit this guy to get him to stop. De-escaltation techniques are a lot more useful and safe. Also depending on the place you live in you may get in trouble for hurting your attacker.
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Apr 10, 2013 17:03
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guppy posted:Anyone got anything good or bad to say about Budoshin jujitsu or the American Jujitsu Association? The system seems to be affiliated with George Kirby although the guy I'd be training under is two degrees of separation his junior. Can't hurt too much to check it out. Look for aliveness and the physical fitness of students. Check if they do competitions. As long as they compete and spar etc, it should be fine.
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Apr 10, 2013 17:06
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