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Moonshine Rhyme posted:So I'm doing a reread, and I'm having trouble figuring out whats up with Lord Mozgus, the executioner guy for the religion. It seems like hes an apostle, but does it ever explain how he became one? When Mozgus and his apostles were running from the black ooze, the Egg stung them with a stinger or something, which made them quasi-Apostles. It's the same way the cult guy dressed as a Baphomet got turned into a quasi-Apostle.
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Apr 7, 2013 20:15
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OK, that makes sense, thanks. Guess I forgot about that stuff in the huge wave of words that dumps from the egg apostle.
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Apr 7, 2013 20:32
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Since people are on the topic, what exactly was the wish of the Egg apostle. I've read, re-read, but I never understood how his wish worked.
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Apr 7, 2013 20:44
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He wanted to be the vessel through which a new world was born, which is now going to be the world belonging to Femto/Griffith. He thought by doing this, he could be a part of everything and never have to be alone and afraid again.
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Apr 7, 2013 20:46
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Yup. Basically he was the vessel through which Femto incarnated, along with Guts' unborn child (rather incidentally, mind). This started the gradual movement towards the huge world-change event that happened when the Behelit-Sword caused some kind of cascade.
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Apr 7, 2013 21:17
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Ah, I see. I thought that Griffith actually used the physical body of Guts' kid to manifest his form in the world. That's something I wasn't really clear on.
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Apr 7, 2013 21:19
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The Egg only included the child in the event on a whim; I don't think it was part of the "plan", as it were.
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Apr 7, 2013 21:32
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Thanks for clarifying. I'll probably reread that part again, it's my favorite storyline.
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Apr 7, 2013 21:37
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Zorak posted:The Egg only included the child in the event on a whim; I don't think it was part of the "plan", as it were. Unless he was destined to have that whim  That's the problem with having destiny as the entire plot motivator. You can't really say for sure if anything is whim or coincidence.
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Apr 7, 2013 22:33
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notZaar posted:Unless he was destined to have that whim Quite true. It is regardless out of Griffith's plan, since even he is surprised that he somehow hasn't lost his "attachment" to Guts and Casca - most likely as a result of the thing within him.
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Apr 7, 2013 22:37
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muike posted:Thanks for clarifying. I'll probably reread that part again, it's my favorite storyline. I still hope the prostitute, Luca, is okay. She was great in that arc and it'd be cool to see her again.
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Apr 7, 2013 22:50
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Luca is easily the best character outside of the main cast. I'm really hoping that she shows up in Falconia, which is apparently where the story is headed next.
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Apr 7, 2013 23:57
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Just read all of this series over yesterday and today. Apart from there being way too much rape and attempted rape it was fantastic. Definitely going to be following this now. ...Whenever more comes, that is. Also, I agree that Luca is awesome, and hope she appears again in a not-horribly-murdered capacity.
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Apr 11, 2013 03:48
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Roland Jones posted:Just read all of this series over yesterday and today. Apart from there being way too much rape and attempted rape it was fantastic. Definitely going to be following this now. Once you see how slow the release schedule for new chapters is, you're gonna wish you spread that 23 years' worth of manga over a longer period, my friend. Welcome to Berserk Hell.
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Apr 11, 2013 04:19
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Hatter106 posted:Once you see how slow the release schedule for new chapters is, you're gonna wish you spread that 23 years' worth of manga over a longer period, my friend. Oh, I realized how slow it is before I even finished; I happened to be linked that page where Isma realizes she's a mermaid and throws her arms up in the air on IRC a year or two (or three?) ago; didn't even know it was from Berserk then, but when I saw that panel again I remembered it and thought, "wait, there are 333 chapters so far, and this one's 326 (or whatever it was)..." which made it clear that this series does not update fast. Oh well; I'm also a fan of Hunter X Hunter, which has hiatuses just as bad, so I can deal with it. I was surprised to learn just how old this series is, though; I looked up some info on it and it's three months older than I am, though looking again apparently an even earlier version was released in 1988. That's a pretty long time there.
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Apr 11, 2013 06:56
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Hatter106 posted:Once you see how slow the release schedule for new chapters is, you're gonna wish you spread that 23 years' worth of manga over a longer period, my friend. Get in. 
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Apr 11, 2013 10:42
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So how nerdy is it to get a berserk tattoo?
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Apr 12, 2013 12:24
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I recall a goon getting the crying behelit tattood on his person. It looked pretty good.
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Apr 12, 2013 12:37
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I worked at a Costco with two co-workers (who did not know each other) had tattoos of the Brand.
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Apr 12, 2013 14:14
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Affi posted:So how nerdy is it to get a berserk tattoo? As long as it looks cool out of context and only recognizable by someone intimately familiar how would anyone know?
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Apr 12, 2013 17:54
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Get a tattoo of Puck and Ivalera, the coolest characters.
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Apr 12, 2013 19:59
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The brand would be the only one I could think of that would look cool and doesn't immediately single you out as a dork who has tattoos from (admittedly awesome) comic books.
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Apr 12, 2013 20:34
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Though the brand looks like a generic tribal tattoo almost. The Behelit is pretty cool, saw it in the good tattoo thread. I was thinking one of Guts crazed smiles. From I think the elf/children/hybrid arc.
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Apr 12, 2013 21:31
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Misty Valley has some of the best Guts expressions. The one someone used for 'Get in' earlier was from the same arc.
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Apr 13, 2013 08:54
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A.S.H. posted:Get a tattoo of Puck and Ivalera, the coolest characters. Normal or chestnut?
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Apr 13, 2013 18:13
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Either, or both.
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Apr 13, 2013 19:24
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Roland Jones posted:Just read all of this series over yesterday and today. Apart from there being way too much rape and attempted rape it was fantastic. Definitely going to be following this now. How do you read 37 volumes of Berserk in two days?!  Lets just say, you missed some things.
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Apr 14, 2013 15:35
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Gwynne posted:How do you read 37 volumes of Berserk in two days?! As someone who has just read everything available over an only-slightly-longer time period (4 days) - its emotionally exhausting. I don't want to spoil anything, but I felt shattered by Griffith's torture and crippling, and the protracted massacre of the Hawks, and when it got to the bit where they go into a spiritual realm and it is actually nice and Miyazaki-esque rather than full of cancer, rape and death, I almost started crying with relief. In a lifetime of reading pulp and popular fiction, I don't think I have ever come across a series that swings so rapidly and wildly from the most crass and seedy violence, body horror and tentacle porn to the most heartbreaking emotion and multilayered character drama. I honestly can't decide whether the author is an idiot or a saint and have come to the reluctant conclusion that that probably means he is a genius, since only real genius is so baffling and hard to categorise. Plus he draws real good - he obviously likes his Bosch, Botticelli, Dore and Durer. Griffith looks like a male version of one of Botticelli's graces or his Venus, all wavy hair, pointy nose and gangly limbs, and the scenes of hell are just astonishing: Lovecraft as illustrated by Gustav Dore. Wow. That was quite an experience.
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Apr 17, 2013 15:19
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Lucien_Reeve posted:In a lifetime of reading pulp and popular fiction, I don't think I have ever come across a series that swings so rapidly and wildly from the most crass and seedy violence, body horror and tentacle porn to the most heartbreaking emotion and multilayered character drama. Yeah. It's for that reason that we're all still at least somewhat skeptical about whether we're just on the far upswing before everything breaks apart again. It's only made worse by the snail-crawl update schedule; we've been in this new "kid sidekicks" phase for many years now. So although it seems like the relatively happier times are here to stay, it wouldn't be the first time Guts was built up only to be thrown back down again.
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Apr 17, 2013 19:33
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Zenzirouj posted:Yeah. It's for that reason that we're all still at least somewhat skeptical about whether we're just on the far upswing before everything breaks apart again. It's only made worse by the snail-crawl update schedule; we've been in this new "kid sidekicks" phase for many years now. So although it seems like the relatively happier times are here to stay, it wouldn't be the first time Guts was built up only to be thrown back down again. Having had a chance to catch my breath a bit, I think that the series has undergone a pretty major tonal shift. Around about episode 200, it moved from being a world in which the only supernatural creatures were demons (and elves) and the design aesthetic was very much Geiger/Lovecraft/Barker meets Renaissance Europe, to one with a much more "Japanese fantasy" feel, especially the witch and the golems. Bits like the comedy pirates feel like they come from some completely different series. The speed of the storytelling, never mind the updates, has slowed right down: looking back, I was amazed that the whole Golden Age arc, which is the most powerful in the series and the foundation stone on which the entire saga rests, was over and done with by episode 100. Caska hasn't spoken now in more than 2/3 of the published chapters. And I don't think that this is just a case of "I WANT MORE UPDATES AND I WANT THEM NOW!!!". It's an aesthetic issue. The alteration in the pace goes with the alteration in the whole tone of the series. I almost feel that he should have finished Berserk on its own terms and then started a new and different series. Still, another thing I noticed looking back is that the last we see of the human Griffith is him trying to tell the Band of the Hawk to go back. He knows that by using the Behelit he has done something awful, he knows that his friends are in terrible danger and he tries to warn them - and, of course, he no longer has a tongue. It's heartbreaking... 
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Apr 18, 2013 10:11
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I've got a terrible feeling that Casca is going to die soon, and it will send Guts and the storyline back into darker territory. I just don't think the nice times can continue for much longer.
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Apr 18, 2013 12:07
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Lucien_Reeve posted:Having had a chance to catch my breath a bit, I think that the series has undergone a pretty major tonal shift. Around about episode 200, it moved from being a world in which the only supernatural creatures were demons (and elves) and the design aesthetic was very much Geiger/Lovecraft/Barker meets Renaissance Europe, to one with a much more "Japanese fantasy" feel, especially the witch and the golems. Bits like the comedy pirates feel like they come from some completely different series. Well, there has been a shift, but it's to do with the amount of supernatural stuff, not really a difference between European and Japanese aesthetics. In the Golden Age there are only a few Apostles (before the Eclipse, that is ) and the Behelit on the supernatural side of things. Gradually the magic ramps up with witches, faeries and trolls and Mozgus. Now Griffith has a bodyguard of half a dozen Apostles, Ganishka was a giant rampaging thing, Schierke's using magic all the time, and there are plenty of other monsters. There's also a bit of powerlevels with regards to Ganishka's fights with Griffith.Meanwhile witches in black pointy hats are a European stereotype, Prague was in Europe last I checked, most of the magic talk (od, qlippoth, astral realm) is European, and the monsters aren't especially Japanese to my eye - no foxes or snow women, etc. Agreed on the pirates, though.
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Apr 18, 2013 12:25
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House Louse posted:Meanwhile witches in black pointy hats are a European stereotype, Prague was in Europe last I checked, most of the magic talk (od, qlippoth, astral realm) is European, and the monsters aren't especially Japanese to my eye - no foxes or snow women, etc. Agreed on the pirates, though. Yeah, I agree that the magic gradually increases and that is definitely the point - Griffith's 'Fantasia' kingdom is set up as being the return of fairytale creatures to the world, making the world into a magical and unreal place as a way of beautifying it into his dream; I think we are supposed to be suspicious of Griffith's too sugar-coated imagination and sensibilities - he wants the world to be a fairytale castle with him at the center and is willing to slaughter thousands of real people to get it. I'm not so sure I agree about the witches though - yes, the black pointy hats are a European stereotype, but the idea that witches are representative of an older religion, elementalists and connected with the Earth is much more modern than the period in European history Berserk pastiches. It's really only a twentieth century idea and depends on a reinterpretation of history that I don't think historians would support, so I don't think it fits the period in which BERSERK is set (or initially appeared to be set). Also, the cute-child witch with that kind of slightly unrealistic squiggly hat is cutesy in a very Japanese way - the design of that character could come from a Final Fantasy game. And the golems, although a golem is obviously an Eastern European Jewish story, look very Miyazaki-primitivist. This kind of judgment is pretty subjective, but that's why I felt that there was a bit of a shift in tone. To begin with the world of BERSERK was put together out of European pieces to create something that had quite a European feel. Later chapters, although they still use European pieces, have started to feel a bit more like other bits of Japanese pop-culture in terms of how those elements are being used. One thing BERSERK really reminded me of, actually, was DEVILMAN: I'm sure someone has made this comparison before, but the central relationship, between two young men, one gritty, enduring and dark, the other angelic, light and beautiful is also there in DEVILMAN; and the arc of the story is similar, as the human world is invaded by horrifying demons, gradually destroyed in a series of apocalypses and finally reduced to a single kingdom.
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Apr 18, 2013 14:58
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Lucien_Reeve posted:Yeah, I agree that the magic gradually increases and that is definitely the point - Griffith's 'Fantasia' kingdom is set up as being the return of fairytale creatures to the world, making the world into a magical and unreal place as a way of beautifying it into his dream; I think we are supposed to be suspicious of Griffith's too sugar-coated imagination and sensibilities - he wants the world to be a fairytale castle with him at the center and is willing to slaughter thousands of real people to get it. The increased emphasis on magic begins long before Fantasia. Although it might be related, in plot terms, to Griffith's rebirth. quote:To begin with the world of BERSERK was put together out of European pieces to create something that had quite a European feel. Later chapters, although they still use European pieces, have started to feel a bit more like other bits of Japanese pop-culture in terms of how those elements are being used. OK, but the witches and golems are pretty unimportant compared to the other stuff that's going on! Maybe Berserk has got a bit more Japanese, but I hardly think that's the biggest change in tone. Forgot to say earlier that the pirates feel weirdly out of place to me too - they're "bumbling icompetent minor villain"-style comic relief* rather than because they're not Medieval. *As opposed to "bumbling icompetent sidekick"-style comic relief, which we've had since the start
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Apr 18, 2013 20:42
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As a side note: the magic of Schierke is the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odic_force , which I didn't know was a real thing. Guts is (probably) inspired from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6tz_von_Berlichingen
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Apr 18, 2013 21:47
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House Louse posted:*As opposed to "bumbling icompetent sidekick"-style comic relief, which we've had since the start
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Apr 19, 2013 02:03
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When I was rereading this a while back, I noticed the big shift in tone around the time Schierke showed up. The magic being something that is comprehensible to humans is a huge shift in the dynamics. Before then, it's just evil spirits, and Puck, and that's it. Then we get named "great spirits" of different elements and directions that are sympathetic to humans, and now magic is something you can use instead of just being used by it, in the form of apostles and whatnot. I don't think it's bad, necessarily, but it's definitely different from everything that came before. There's a definite difference in tone between Guts chopping apostles apart with a giant hunk of iron and his kid sidekick stabbing a troll with a fire-enchanted dagger. That said, there was a chapter last year where Guts cut apart a sea god's heart and literally almost drowned in the blood, so the old grim tone isn't completely gone, to say the least. It's just muted, most of the time.
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Apr 19, 2013 02:17
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temple posted:As a side note: the magic of Schierke is the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odic_force , which I didn't know was a real thing. This is really interesting! I always wondered what the inspiration for the magic was in Berserk because it struck me as being so different than anything I'd ever seen before. Thanks for sharing it!
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Apr 19, 2013 02:34
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Begemot posted:When I was rereading this a while back, I noticed the big shift in tone around the time Schierke showed up. The magic being something that is comprehensible to humans is a huge shift in the dynamics. Before then, it's just evil spirits, and Puck, and that's it. Then we get named "great spirits" of different elements and directions that are sympathetic to humans, and now magic is something you can use instead of just being used by it, in the form of apostles and whatnot. The tone of the horror has changed from things that shouldn't exist to things you hope don't exist. Or maybe the other way around, I don't know that's where individual interpretations lie. The best and seminal scene for me is when he fought Zodd for the first time because he is genuinely afraid but he confronts his fear consciously as a man. He either has a forlorn hope, like as a kid versus the wolves, or he is consciously confronting his challenges as an adult. The current story is a cycle of the two types of resolve.
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Apr 19, 2013 04:02
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temple posted:As a side note: the magic of Schierke is the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odic_force , which I didn't know was a real thing. That's really interesting. I did not know about the Odic force at all. I wonder if Griffith is even slightly based on John Hawkwood, an Englishman who commanded a mercenary company called the White Company in France and Italy in the fourteenth century, if only because of the "Hawk" connection. There is an interesting history book about him called Hawkwood: Diabolical Englishman that looks like it would be the kind of "blood and plague and horrible death" school of history that would appeal to someone who liked BERSERK.
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Apr 19, 2013 16:30
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