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Baika posted:I am kind of curious, what types of dogs would benefit from a mix of traditional and positive training? I have had people either be one one side or the other, but I never hear too much about mixing the two. Pretty much what Rixatrix said. "Positive training" normally means that you're relying on two of the four quadrants of operant conditioning: positive reinforcement and negative punishment (see the OP for details). "Traditional/balanced training" normally means that the trainer will rely on all four quadrants: positive reinforcement, negative reinforcement, positive punishment, negative punishment. So I would argue that balanced training carries many of the hallmarks of positive training and is already a mix of the two. Positive training posits that it's possible to achieve good, reliable results without the addition of positive punishment, fear, discomfort or intimidation. protobyss posted:A few quick questions to help me out as I begin planning/plotting training for Charlie. The treats are probably pretty trashy, but see my post a few above yours to see my thoughts on training treats. They don't have to be ultra healthy. Don't rely on just one sort though. As far as feeding goes, it's sort of a "know thy dog" situation. Figure out what works best for him through trial and error. With my dog I'll feed her a normal breakfast, do some training in the afternoon and then possibly cut back a bit on her dinner depending on how much she ate during our training session. I'll also use kibble for training treats and feet entire meals that way. I'm lucky to have a dog who sees all food as valuable. Some dogs won't work for kibble. Keep in mind that most dogs you see out on the street are overweight, if not downright obese. Your dog may be a perfectly healthy weight right now. From the photo you posted, he looks fine but if you want to post up more we may be able to comment more accurately. Seeing a few ribs isn't necessarily a bad thing, and visible bones in the back end may just be natural, or may be able to be lessened via putting some muscle on. Vets are normally happy to do periodic weigh ins for free. I have a few boutique pet food stores around me that have scales for customers to use too. They're good options for keeping tabs on weight. Re: time to dedicate to training. Less is more. One hour is a VERY long time to a dog. You'll find you'll get the best results if you train in 5-10 minute spurts, especially to start. If those 5 minute spurts add up to an hour over the course of the day that's cool, but one hour in a row means that you're almost guaranteed to lose his attention along the way and tire him out. You want to keep your training sessions fun and energetic and quit before the dog decides he's had enough. The best trainers in the world may train a behaviour for 5 minutes a day, max. They just make excellent use of their time, their reinforcement and have very clear communication of criteria to their dogs. Quality, not quantity. My guess is that eventually he'll get used to laminate flooring. In the interim you could pick up some cheap bath mats or rugs to help him get more comfortable on it. You can make a bit of a carpet island pathway for him, and gradually as he gets more comfortable space out the carpet islands a bit further from each other. Also try to keep his nails nice and short. Long nails can make it hard for a dog to get purchase on a smooth floor.
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Apr 10, 2013 13:41
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a life less posted:Pretty much what Rixatrix said. Awesome. I figured he looked fine and I am familiar with the profile of how a dog should be an I have a very acute aversion to overweight dogs. I only brought it up because his overhead profile is very pronounced and the hip bones showing concerned me. He doesn't seem malnourished at all. It may just be the breed mixes. For my sessions I meant to break up different behaviors over the course of the day in 5-10 minute spurts. I was planning on one in the morning before work and one or two in the evening separated by a few hours or so. Weekends when I have more free time and can take him on "nose" rewarding walks I might be able get some more time out of him. As far as planning my routine for training goes, I figured I would start with getting him to respond to his name with eye contact and teach him to target my hand first so it would be easier for me to get his attention in higher distraction environments. Gotta get a nerdy little tripod for my camera for taking video so I can start recording sessions. So far the only thing I have done with him is reinforce calm behaviors. For example, when he laid down and put his head in my lap while riding in the car on his own, I gave him a piece of the peanut butter treat. Waited for him to be cool and do it on his own again without any indication he was doing it for food and gave him another etc...
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Apr 10, 2013 15:30
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When we switched from carpet to laminate penny is much more careful in the house. Now she prefers to basically run from rug to rug so that she doesn't have to chance slipping on the laminate if she needs to jump somewhere fast. Slippery floors are scary for dogs I guess. EDIT: oh there was another page. Silly me.
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Apr 10, 2013 16:10
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This has no basis in real training nor is it at all something I seriously suggest, but we did cure a friend's mastiff of fear of slippery floors by putting a glob of bacon grease in the middle of the floor where she'd have to walk over tile to get it. By the time she had gotten all the grease off the floor to her satisfaction, she was over it. Bacon therapy.
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Apr 11, 2013 06:27
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Pile of Kittens posted:This has no basis in real training nor is it at all something I seriously suggest, but we did cure a friend's mastiff of fear of slippery floors by putting a glob of bacon grease in the middle of the floor where she'd have to walk over tile to get it. By the time she had gotten all the grease off the floor to her satisfaction, she was over it. Bacon therapy. It most certainly does. That's a combination of luring and counter conditioning.
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Apr 11, 2013 16:37
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The girl I set next to at work is proudly proclaiming to a friend right now that she does not use treats to train her new puppy, only corrections. How hosed is this dog?  edit: Also her friend is encouraging her to watch the dog whisperer and describing alpha rolling to her, and I swear to god this is actually happening five feet away from me right now Mirthless fucked around with this message at 17:12 on Apr 11, 2013 |
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Apr 11, 2013 17:06
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Mirthless posted:The girl I set next to at work is proudly proclaiming to a friend right now that she does not use treats to train her new puppy, only corrections. How hosed is this dog? I have never in my life understood the argument for not using food rewards when training "But I don't want to use bribes!!" Reinforcement is not the same as bribing god drat it! (And I'm not ashamed to say I'll happily bribe when need be. I think the last time was when I was leaving Riiseli's place in a hurry and Pi was ratting behind the old piggery and wouldn't come when called. I put some kibble in a metal bowl and shook the bowl a bit so the kibble rattled and lo and behold Pi appeared. I bribed, but we me and him got what we wanted. Who cares.)
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Apr 11, 2013 17:23
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Here are some slightly better cell phone pictures of Charlie's profile to get a better eyeball at his weight. Also, I have some video of our first training section but it's terrible because my wife was the camera man, it was outside, and there were things to distract him. However, we worked on not mugging and laying down. He's getting better about mugging but if he's hungry he really tries hard to get after it. As for laying down, he does it well and does not move his hind legs. However, I am finding it difficult to get him to stand back up without pouncing at my hand. That session was kinda free form and not really planned out, I just wanted to see what it was going to be like trying different stuff with him. I thought it was going to be hard to tell when the dog is getting frustrated or bored, but it is really super easy to tell.   His harness is not tight on him at all, it seems to fit perfectly. It's just weird that the back strap is not connected to the back ring around his waist so it flops from side to side through a loop.
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Apr 11, 2013 19:10
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protobyss posted:Here are some slightly better cell phone pictures of Charlie's profile to get a better eyeball at his weight. He looks a little skinny, but mostly he looks out of shape. I'd probably want a teensy bit more padding on the ribs. You don't need your dog to be famished to train. Some dogs have more trouble concentrating when they're really hungry. Feel out what works for him as far as keeping him motivated and happy. Why are you trying to get the dog to stand up? To reset the exercise? Just release (say "okay" or "break" or whatever) and toss the treat off to the side. He'll get up and go after it. Making sure to release is important. Eventually you'll not have to toss a treat, but for now it's the easiest method. If you're trying to teach a stand cue, I think this is a good method: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmvVJssfLDE Your dog will need to understand a hand touch first, but that's an awesome and very basic behaviour and after a few weeks he'll probably have it down pat.
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Apr 11, 2013 19:25
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a life less posted:If you're trying to teach a stand cue, I think this is a good method: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmvVJssfLDE Your dog will need to understand a hand touch first, but that's an awesome and very basic behaviour and after a few weeks he'll probably have it down pat. We taught Sadie in a similar fashion. A funny side effect is that if you ask her to stand and you're close enough, she targets on crotches. She also gets that excited, slow tail wag so it's extra creepy. I decided to let it slide because I think it's hilarious. protobyss: when you say "mugging" is she mugging you for food in the bait pouch? What's the context here? It sounds like you might benefit from the Doggie Zen exercise, and if you'd like I can put together a post on that sometime this weekend.
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Apr 11, 2013 20:58
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Mugging is just trying to get food from my hand, I'm not currently using a pouch. I was trying to reset the exercise, I will toss a treat to the side on the ground instead of hand feeding. Thank you for that! I agree he looks a bit skinny, but I have only had him for less than a week. I will be working with him a bunch to get him back in shape.
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Apr 11, 2013 21:42
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You want to be careful if you're holding food in your hands as a treat reward. If you don't use a bait pouch or a baggie hidden on your person somewhere, at least hold your hand behind your back. The danger is that your dog will begin to discriminate to when you have treats in your hand and when you don't. This is the trap that a lot of owners fall into and where the whole myth of R+ being equivalent to bribing comes from. That being said, our dogs have incredible noses. They know when we have treats and when we don't, so the trick is to teach them that it doesn't matter if we have treats on our person or not, because you might be getting them anyways.
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Apr 11, 2013 22:42
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protobyss posted:Mugging is just trying to get food from my hand, I'm not currently using a pouch. In addition to what Mr. Furious said, try playing this version of Leave It. Put a treat in your palm and brace your wrist on your leg or something just so you aren't flailing around. Open your hand up. When dog goes for the treat, close your hand. Hand stays closed as long as dog is actively trying to get treat. Hand opens when dog backs off. You reward* when the dog backs off at a first and then build up duration after he gets the game. Another variation which is nice for teaching eye contact with distractions is to hold a treat in your hand straight out to the side and dog gets the treat when he looks at you instead of the treat. This is a good game for after your dog learns that mugging your hand doesn't work. Once your dog learns that going after or focusing on a treat will never get him the treat, holding food in your hand is not generally a problem as long as you also teach that doing stuff when treats aren't obvious can still be rewarding. *if this is super hard for your dog, you can reward with a different treat from your other hand. Some versions of leave it in fact require that the dog never get the thing they are supposed to leave (it is a leave it FOREVER cue). This can be useful if you want to teach your dog to leave things in the environment alone such as other dogs or people.
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Apr 11, 2013 23:48
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I was switching up having a treat in the hand and not. When I rewarded I showed him there was no treat but he got one anyway. I was also increasing the time before I clicked him being chill about the treat.
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Apr 12, 2013 02:49
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Kiri koli posted:In addition to what Mr. Furious said, try playing this version of Leave It. Put a treat in your palm and brace your wrist on your leg or something just so you aren't flailing around. Open your hand up. When dog goes for the treat, close your hand. Hand stays closed as long as dog is actively trying to get treat. Hand opens when dog backs off. You reward* when the dog backs off at a first and then build up duration after he gets the game. This is Doggie Zen, but I'm very strict about never getting the bait treat, because this builds into Leave It once we put a cue on it. The whole point of Leave It is that you never, ever, get the bait. If they do eventually get it, I don't think Leave It is an appropriate cue. Use "Wait" with a release instead.
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Apr 12, 2013 14:47
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What's the difference between Doggie Zen and It's Yer Choice? You mentioned earlier that Doggie Zen is another good relaxation exercise, can you explain how that works exactly? I'm not really seeing it to be honest.
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Apr 12, 2013 15:43
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Triangulum posted:What's the difference between Doggie Zen and It's Yer Choice? You mentioned earlier that Doggie Zen is another good relaxation exercise, can you explain how that works exactly? I'm not really seeing it to be honest. It's not a relaxation exercise so much as an impulse control exercise. It can help with those over-exuberant dogs because it gives them a new behavior to perform when they want something - to freaking chill out for a second. It's basically the same as IYC, although ALL is our resident IYC & Susan Garrett expert I think, so maybe she can weigh in. The difference, to me, is that most people think of IYC and Leave It as separate exercises, but to me they're the same. One is just cued. It's very valuable to turn Doggie Zen or IYC into a default behavior so that when you drop that bottle of ibuprofen, your dog doesn't immediately gobble them up and force you to pay to have his stomach pumped. The way I teach this in class (just last night in fact), is essentially what Kiri koli posted. We start with a treat in a closed fist. As soon as the mugging stops, click and treat. Stay at this stage until it's reliable. Then begin to shape for eye contact. Accept any orientation towards you to begin, then steadily discriminate for only looks closer to your face, and so on. Once you're at the point where you're getting some eye contact, move to the open palm, but your reward criteria goes back to just leaving it alone (forget about eye contact). Step your way slowly back to eye contact in the same manner as before. Next move the treat in an open palm to the floor. Then on the floor and cover it with your hand. Then drop from a couple of inches, then higher and higher (be careful here, most treats will bounce and roll, you don't want them to be in reach of the dog before you can stop him). Eventually you can dramatically collapse with a bag of treats and watch as your dog just chills the gently caress out while you pick them all up and then click and treat him. Congrats on your default Leave It. Some people prefer to change the criteria before they ask for eye contact, but I find that it actually goes faster this way. The behavior chain is familiar by the end and you're moving through the steps really fast. I got from closed fist to the floor with a dog in less than 5 minutes last night - this is really, really easy for them to learn, it's hard on us, not them.
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Apr 12, 2013 17:40
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So I schlepped a ways to an adoption event because there was a beautiful dog that I was dying to see in person. (Unfortunately, my impending move means she'll probably go to another home before I can apply for her. Oh well.  ) What sort of worried me is that one of the volunteers (crotchety old man) alpha-rolled another dog. Just rolled him over, grabbed him by the throat and kept saying, "Calm down!"  Surprise, it didn't work, and he got bit for his trouble. None of the other volunteers made a big deal of it.Should I go with another rescue, or is having one old rear end in a top hat who subscribes to dominance theory common at shelters/rescues?
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Apr 13, 2013 20:15
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Nyarai posted:So I schlepped a ways to an adoption event because there was a beautiful dog that I was dying to see in person. (Unfortunately, my impending move means she'll probably go to another home before I can apply for her. Oh well. Move on. It's common in areas, but it depends a lot upon geographic location and a host of other things that we don't need to go into. Unless you have no other alternative I would strongly recommend you keep looking.
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Apr 13, 2013 20:19
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Hi everyone, I'm a pretty rare lurker in PI and I post even less often, but something's come up today that has me seeking advice. Also cross-posting to the Yappy Rat Central thread. My parents got a dog three weeks ago, Patches. He's a rescue, eight years old, shih-tzu / terrier mix. We've never heard him make a sound. The downstairs neighbors emailed my parents today saying that whenever my parents leave Patches alone at home, he runs back and forth between the front and back doors, barking for an hour or longer. As if this isn't bad enough, the neighbors have an infant daughter who can't sleep with all the barking going on. Mom is freaking out and looking for a solution. She's taking tomorrow off work but obviously that can't last. I've done a little bit of reading and it sounds like maybe crate training will help, but I'd love any advice from experienced dog owners. Help! Please?
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Apr 15, 2013 06:02
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Nyarai posted:So I schlepped a ways to an adoption event because there was a beautiful dog that I was dying to see in person. (Unfortunately, my impending move means she'll probably go to another home before I can apply for her. Oh well. My local indie rescue's tv slot starts off okay, but then ALPHA ROLL TIME! Running a rescue doesn't magically make you a dog genius.
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Apr 15, 2013 13:49
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Lovie Unsmith posted:Hi everyone, I'm a pretty rare lurker in PI and I post even less often, but something's come up today that has me seeking advice. Also cross-posting to the Yappy Rat Central thread. The suggestions you got in the Yappy Rat thread are good ones. To add to those, it sounds like classic separation anxiety. Try picking up the book "I'll be home soon" by Patricia McConnell for some exercises on how to get him more comfortable being alone. Increase exercise so he's most likely just to sleep when you (or your parents) leave. Have a nice long walk with lots of play etc shortly before you leave him alone, and have a special long lasting treat to occupy him for a good while to help him mellow out. Crate training is good. If he's already crate trained, that's great. Give him his frozen stuffed Kong or bully stick or whatever in there and he should finish that off and go to sleep (might want to make sure he has some water). If he's not crate trained, look into crate games to get him more accustomed to being confined. If you need more pointers on crates, please let me know. Definitely talk to your neighbours and explain the situation and ask for periodic updates so they don't feel helpless/ignored and so you can keep tabs on his progress. A web cam will be helpful to keep watch too. Try all of that for a good solid month and see if that gets you anywhere. If not, I'm not completely adverse to using a citronella spray collar in conjunction with proper classical conditioning & desensitization if it comes down to needing him to quiet or he'll be returned to the shelter or your parents risk losing the apartment. Do not immediately leap to the collar however, because you're likely just going to make things worse. Try everything else first. Nyarai posted:So I schlepped a ways to an adoption event because there was a beautiful dog that I was dying to see in person. (Unfortunately, my impending move means she'll probably go to another home before I can apply for her. Oh well. Meh, I wouldn't boycott a group for the shoddy behaviour of one person. If there are other options, it might make me more likely to explore them but boycotting the group kind of seems like it'd be like cutting off your nose to spite your face. a life less fucked around with this message at 18:46 on Apr 15, 2013 |
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Apr 15, 2013 18:43
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a life less posted:Meh, I wouldn't boycott a group for the shoddy behaviour of one person. If there are other options, it might make me more likely to explore them but boycotting the group kind of seems like it'd be like cutting off your nose to spite your face. Right. Thanks for the advice. I was just a bit shaken after watching an old douchebag (the one carrying the leash of my ideal dog, no less) manhandle an excited puppy. Part of me really wanted to tell him off, but I had no real authority to do so.  They rescue dogs from high-kill shelters in the South, so definitely an endeavor I'd like to support. If my pretty dog stays un-adopted, I'll definitely check them out in a month and a half (when I finally move). Also any other dogs. :P Nyarai fucked around with this message at 01:00 on Apr 16, 2013 |
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Apr 16, 2013 00:38
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My roommate's brother's pit bull is living with us right now because her owner, the brother, lives in an apartment where he can't have dogs living with him but he can have a dog "visiting" for up to 2 weeks at a time. So she has been staying with us for 3-4 weeks at a time and then going back to him for a week or two. She's 2 years old and the brother has had her since she was a puppy, and hasn't trained her to do anything other than "shake" and "high five." So she absolutely sucks at walking on a leash, she jumps, she begs - pretty much every annoying, poorly-trained dog behavior, she does it. So she's with us right now and has been for like a month. I've managed to teach her "don't pull," "slow down," and "wait" when we're on walks and she's doing pretty well with all of those commands. I'm tempted to train her out of some of her other annoying behaviors like jumping and begging, but I'm also wondering if it's worth it since she will eventually, for a couple of weeks, be going back to her owner who doesn't do any kind of training with her and refuses to put any effort into fixing his dog's behavior. Will she forget what I've taught her once she goes back and the training isn't consistently reinforced anymore? I've only taught her to be better on the leash within this last month, so I haven't had the experience of her leaving and then coming back to see if it sticks or if she completely forgets it. Will my effort go out the window once she's with her owner for a couple of weeks, or will she still associate her training and good behavior with being at my house and maybe continue to be better-behaved when she's over here?
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Apr 16, 2013 03:20
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Budget Bears posted:Will she forget what I've taught her once she goes back and the training isn't consistently reinforced anymore? I've only taught her to be better on the leash within this last month, so I haven't had the experience of her leaving and then coming back to see if it sticks or if she completely forgets it. Will my effort go out the window once she's with her owner for a couple of weeks, or will she still associate her training and good behavior with being at my house and maybe continue to be better-behaved when she's over here? She won't forget; she might need a reminder when you get back, but it'll go faster each time. You're the more important factor than your house, and if you're consistent she'll behave well around you.
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Apr 16, 2013 03:25
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So we're getting a new addition in a little over a week and I'm looking for crate recommendations as well as what the proper size to purchase is. Cattle Dog's don't get larger than about 30-40 pounds and she'll be 3 months old when we get her so I'm hoping to be able to get a crate that's large enough she'll be able to continue to use it when she's full grown. I also need to find a good dog bed and order some clickers for training. I'm sure I'll be posting in this thread regularly after we get her. I should say, this isn't my first rodeo, I've had an ACD before so I have a pretty good idea of what I'm in for energy-wise, but I'm hoping we can be diligent about the training from a young age and end up with a super-star dog that can read our minds. 
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Apr 16, 2013 19:41
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MMD3 posted:So we're getting a new addition in a little over a week and I'm looking for crate recommendations as well as what the proper size to purchase is. Cattle Dog's don't get larger than about 30-40 pounds and she'll be 3 months old when we get her so I'm hoping to be able to get a crate that's large enough she'll be able to continue to use it when she's full grown. God have mercy on you. (I hope everything works out! Pup is super cute.)
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Apr 17, 2013 00:07
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Here's a new video of my handstand training with Cohen. We've had lots of false starts over the months (and years) but I think I'm finally on track to getting a consistent long duration and maybe a few steps while holding it. http://youtu.be/pjf6eiVnKok 
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Apr 17, 2013 13:45
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Cohen and you are awesome, those are sweet handstands. It looks like she's trying to hold it for as long as she can even after you click by the end.
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Apr 17, 2013 14:26
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Budget Bears posted:My roommate's brother's pit bull is living with us right now because her owner, the brother, lives in an apartment where he can't have dogs living with him but he can have a dog "visiting" for up to 2 weeks at a time. So she has been staying with us for 3-4 weeks at a time and then going back to him for a week or two. She's 2 years old and the brother has had her since she was a puppy, and hasn't trained her to do anything other than "shake" and "high five." So she absolutely sucks at walking on a leash, she jumps, she begs - pretty much every annoying, poorly-trained dog behavior, she does it. Just to add to what Engineer Lenk said, what is likely to happen is the dog will quickly learn that she can get away with all that bad behavior with the brother, but not with you. So she will behave around you (especially if she's spending the majority of her time with you) and not with him -- which is likely to frustrate him down the line. Good luck!
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Apr 17, 2013 14:51
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I'm currently dealing with a 7 month old Black Lab puppy. He is one of the sweetest and most intelligent dogs I have ever met and I love him to death but I have been having some behavioral issues with him. From what I have read and been told, Labs remain in the puppy stage for up to three years and that idea is terrifying right now. I can not stop him from jumping on people or things. When I walk him, he is generally well behaved. He's a gorgeous dog and everyone wants to pet him. I make him sit before I allow anyone to pet him, because he used to try to jump on everyone. Now he sits patiently and lets them pet him, but as soon as they stand up he tries to jump on them. He's big enough now to knock people over, and he's also big enough to get on the counters and tables around the house. Anything left in the open will be taken. He will sometimes jump up on the counter in the kitchen and take food while I am trying to cook it. I can not get him to stop this. No matter how much I scold him he will not get down unless I forcibly remove him. He will take anything that he knows he's not supposed to have and just run away from me. I've found that the best way to get him to stop doing this is to not give him any attention until he drops it, but sometimes he will then just go and tear it up. He has hurt himself by jumping up on a hot stove but did not learn his lesson. He climbs on (and knocks over) furniture. He also gets really riled up and runs around the house knocking things over and leaping at people, but I think this is just part of being a puppy. Does anyone have any ideas for how I can get him to realize that he is not allowed to jump up on people or counters or tables or furniture? This is the first dog I have had that will not listen to me about such things. A less pressing matter is that I can not teach him to bark. This means that I have not been able to teach him to make noise when he wants to go outside, so I often wake up to puppy turds in front of the back door. I know he is capable of it because he barks at things sometimes, and I always praise him and give him a treat and tell him he's a good boy for speaking, but he doesn't seem to make the connection when I am commanding him to do so. He hasn't had a problem learning any other commands other than roll over, he will roll like halfway and then just stop, but that's cute and not a problem. Here's a crappy cellphone picture to make up for your time! His name is Gatsby. 
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Apr 22, 2013 04:22
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Blunt Force Trauma posted:I'm currently dealing with a 7 month old Black Lab puppy. He is one of the sweetest and most intelligent dogs I have ever met and I love him to death but I have been having some behavioral issues with him. I'm going to try to help you because I have a black lab and a soft spot in my heart for them but this is reading like a train wreck. I'd like to know more about how much exercise he's getting and how often and what methods you're using to train him. House training, sitting around people and not counter surfing are the most trivial things to teach a puppy and you've spent 5 months teaching the dog that it's okay to crap in the house, jump on people and get on the counter which led to him burning himself. So please spend some time on this and learn how to train your dog. Read the OP of this thread and the new puppy thread. - Stop scolding your dog. It doesn't do anything. Read the OP and start clicker training him. It's easier to train him to do what you want than to train him not to do a thousand other things. - Start teaching him stuff all the time, 2-3 10-15 minute sessions a day. Just youtube kikopup and clicker training. You'll have a better relationship with the dog and he'll get in the habit of doing what you tell him to. - Puppy stage? You got a pretty energetic breed. Mine started to slow down a tiny bit at two years but they're going to have a lot of energy and need a lot of exercise their entire life. None of what you described can be attributed to "puppy stage" though, just bad management and training. Especially, don't let him get in the habit of destroying things. Get him an antler or nylabone or something he can chew on without ripping it apart. These problems aren't going to magically disappear when he turns three, you're just going to have a dog that has spent 3 years ingraining really bad habits. - I can't fathom why somebody would teach a pet dog to bark but I would put it on hold until you have mastered getting your dog to poop outside and stay off the stove. If you screw it up and have a dog that barks at you constantly, it'll be hard to untrain. - If he's tearing around the house constantly, he probably just needs more mental stimulation and exercise. And a conclusion because I want to make this really clear. It's not that the dog "isn't listening to you", he isn't in "puppy stage" and he doesn't know what he's supposed to have or not. All his misbehaviour is your failure to train him to do the things you expect and your failure manage his environment. Appendix: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEeS2dPpPtA Leave It. Start doing this everyday, I think it's one of the most important tricks you can teach a lab. You can use this to train him to Leave things on the counter alone too. For now, I would just babygate him out of the kitchen while you're cooking and don't leave stuff on the counter. Postess with the Mostest fucked around with this message at 05:07 on Apr 22, 2013 |
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Apr 22, 2013 05:00
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Yeah, Labs seem like one of those breeds who are slow to mature. However, as Ikantski mentioned, it's a training & management issue, not an age issue. Training is about replacing an unwanted behaviour with a more appropriate behaviour. Management is about controlling the environment so the dog isn't given the opportunity to practice unwanted behaviour in the interim. Practice makes perfect, and you don't want to solidify those "bad" behaviours any more than they currently are. The key to dog training is about teaching a dog self control and how to make good decisions even when you're not there telling him what to do. Along with a basic "leave it" cue, you'll really benefit from "Its Yer Choice". We talk about it a lot in this thread. It starts off looking similar to teaching leave it, but you can grow it to apply to just about anything in the dog's life from jumping up on people to chasing squirrels. Here is a basic video about how to get yourself started. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipT5k1gaXhc Dog training is also about understanding where the reinforcement is coming from. Jumping up on counters and stealing food is obviously highly reinforcing even though you scold him. So is jumping up on strangers. You need to make the other, more appropriate behaviour more reinforcing to the dog. You need to be paying out ridiculous amounts of food, play or anything else that the dog finds rewarding for the good decisions the dog makes, and you need to start off small so you don't expect too much from your dog too soon. Jumping up on people Training: In class, we treat greeting people as a sit/stay exercise. We have the handler standing next to the dog, cuing it to stay, and popping loads of treats into its mouth as a greeter approaches. With practice, holding that sit/stay becomes more rewarding for a dog. Management: Don't let him greet other people if you suspect he'll jump up. Keep him by your side and focused on you with food while you speak with greeters. Counter surfing Training: This one is tough since he's received so much reinforcement from it already in the past. Teach him to stay on a bed or a mat in an appropriate place in the kitchen. While he's there, treats will rain from the sky. Toss food to the bed even when you're seemingly not paying attention, as long as he's laying on it. Its Yer Choice will also come into play here. Management: Gate him out of the kitchen. Don't leave food or other desirable items on surfaces he can reach. Stealing items Training: Here's a good method for teaching your dog "drop it". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndTiVOCNY4M Also IYC. Management: Same as above. Don't leave tempting items around. Housebreaking Training: Some people train their dogs to target/ring a bell when they want to go outside. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M76z12srr-4 Management: I have a dog who never gave me any obvious signals that she had to go outside to pee/poo. We dealt with it primarily through management. We did regular potty breaks (very regular -- so regular you can set your clock to it) ever 2-3 hours. I got very familiar with the daily potty routines of my dog and would not end the potty break until I saw sufficient pee/poo. I also used a crate or gate overnight or when I couldn't directly supervise so the dog couldn't sneak off while my back was turned and make a mistake indoors. I highly recommend heavy duty management for a solid month after a housetraining accident to really set the dog back on track. Again, we talk about housebreaking a lot in this thread, so searching through it will provide more details. Barking on cue I'd consider this one a non-issue if you address housebreaking properly. I taught my dog to speak by capturing it. She would bark excitedly when we played training games, specifically when we were hand targeting. I used a clicker in a somewhat controlled environment and she got the hang of it pretty quickly. Timing your marker and your reward plus making sure the environment isn't too distracting is probably key here. E: Your dog will likely benefit from a lot of the exercises in Leslie McDevvitt's Control Unleashed book. She offers up a number of exercises aimed at growing your dog's self control and reliability even when off leash. a life less fucked around with this message at 12:37 on Apr 22, 2013 |
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Apr 22, 2013 12:23
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Great thread, and I'm sure I'll be spending a lot of time reading it over the next few weeks. We recently adopted a 9 year old yellow lab from the Purdue Vet Program (Andrew if there are any Purdue vet folks reading). He seems to be in really good shape and health for his age, and is just as energetic as a puppy. Is there anything specific we need to take into account trying to teach him things being that he's 9 years old? The main thing I'm trying to break him of is trying to get up on the counter and get food, and eating the cat's food. We put the cat food up on an end table so he can't reach it for now. As for the counter I'm not so sure about the best way to break him of that. Also when he drinks water he makes a huge mess. I'm not so sure he isn't just letting the last drink run back out of his mouth instead of swallowing it. Is that even something you can "fix"?
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Apr 23, 2013 15:18
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See my response right above your post re: some ideas for counter surfing. It's not an easy habit to break since there's likely a long history of reinforcement associated with the behaviour. You can probably cut down on the water mess by only keeping a small amount of water in the bowl at one time. I've seen bowls that only allow a little bit of water to trickle in at once, keeping the rest in a reservoir under or behind it. Something like this one: http://leerburg.com/1207.htm It's not a training problem, but a management one. As far as training with a mature dog, I'd suggest you approach it the same as you would a puppy. Keep sessions short, fun and highly reinforcing. Don't drill for too long and always leave your dog wanting more. Be aware of your environment and try to predict problems before they happen, rather than react to them after the fact. Taking a training class will also give you some time to bond with your dog and teach the two of you to work together in a distracting environment.
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Apr 23, 2013 15:39
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Maniaman posted:Great thread, and I'm sure I'll be spending a lot of time reading it over the next few weeks. We recently adopted a 9 year old yellow lab from the Purdue Vet Program (Andrew if there are any Purdue vet folks reading). He seems to be in really good shape and health for his age, and is just as energetic as a puppy. Awesome, I'm loving the influx of labs to PI. The post right above yours talks about counter surfing, check it out. It's Yer Choice and Leave It are great for this. For the water issue, you can get little plastic mats with a lip on them larger than the bowl. You'll probably never be able to leave the cat food on the ground. I don't know about age specific things, try not to stress out his joints I guess.
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Apr 23, 2013 15:49
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are there any considerations I should keep in mind when crate shopping or are they all fairly equal? This is the one I was about to order: http://www.amazon.com/Midwest-Stage...dog+crate+36%22 The australian cattle dog we're getting should only get to be ~35-40lb but apparently they suggest a 36" size for larger than 40lb.
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Apr 23, 2013 16:12
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That should be just fine. I like the two doors option. To me, metal crates are all pretty equal.
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Apr 23, 2013 16:15
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We're having a hard time teaching him to do the sterotypical sphinx lay down, I'm thinking it might be too hard on his joints. I'll definitely use some of those suggestions on counter surfing. The fiance has a tumblr for the dog that gets updated occasionally.. http://newolddog.tumblr.com/ He loves bringing us clothes and shoes, which makes me want to try to teach him to bring my slippers to me at the couch and take my shoes and put them in the bedroom. Its kind of funny, you'll take your shoes off and put them in the bedroom and 15 minutes later he'llgo in there, get them, and bring them back out to you and sit them down at your feet.
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Apr 23, 2013 17:07
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a life less posted:That should be just fine. I like the two doors option. To me, metal crates are all pretty equal. thanks! any crate training resources that you could suggest reading up on? would love to know if we should start crating at night as soon as we get her or slowly work up to overnight. Also, should the crate be in our bedroom or outside of it?
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Apr 23, 2013 17:36
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