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Getting a passport isn't really that hard at all assuming you're not on a shitlist somewhere, or privy to really sensitive stuff. Same deal for the US really: Are in default on a repatriation or medical assistance loan Are behind on child support payments Are subject of certain court orders or a foreign extradition request Were committed to a mental institution, or legally declared incompetent by a court Were subject to a previous denial or revocation Were issued a temporary passport for specific reasons Any of this will get you denied a passport. Same system really, the US won't tell you you cannot go somewhere, but they can deny your passport. The only thing China does different is checking passports on the way out, which is annoying when dealing with visa-on-arrival countries. Both as a means to catch those who should not be traveling and to help catch dual passport holders.
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Apr 10, 2013 17:11
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Bloodnose posted:That's baffling. My best guess is that they manage to discourage most people who would be denied before they are actually considered 'applicants who apply'. I assume of course there is a fee just to get the application, or some other barrier that allows them discourage anyone they want. Saying they approve 90% of applications just means they either prevent people from applying or just shred the applications and don't count them.
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Apr 10, 2013 17:11
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Bloodnose posted:It literally requires a Top Secret security clearance to be a CALNA. Even casually mentioning anything about work will get you drawn-and-quartered if the chain of command found out about it. Yeah I don't believe anything the consulate says. My anecdote of the Shanghai consulate: I'm an American citizen. My wife is Chinese (from Hangzhou), she got denied twice for a visa and they told her to never to apply again. This is with all the bank stuff, Hukou, etc. a letter of invitation from a US congressman (friend of my dad) and a letter from my grandmother's doctor (notarized) saying that she only had a few months to live and it would be my wife's only chance to meet her before she passed away. Not only did they deny her, but the person asked my wife at the interview "have you ever met your husband's grandmother before?" My wife says, "no". He then says something along the lines of (he apparently spoke poo poo Chinese so maybe he didn't realize the kind of tone he was using): If you've never met her before I don't get why you care enough to go see her." And threw in some line about how my wife and grandmother had a bad relationship or something (she had a hard time understanding the point he was trying to make). They said if she wanted to go to America she could apply for immigration, otherwise she could never go. She said she didn't want to immigrate and they just blew her off. I absolutely detest those people and don't believe a word they say about anything. It's one thing to deny someone, but it's another to insult them and treat them like trash while doing so. Edit: I have horrible typing skills. DaiJiaTeng fucked around with this message at 17:28 on Apr 10, 2013 |
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Apr 10, 2013 17:23
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hitension posted:Here's a nice clean map: Edit: nevermind I looked at this map through my tiny browser window at work and didn't see the title. Yeah, looks like my memory was right, Shanghai serves a larger area than simply the city proper. flatbus fucked around with this message at 18:35 on Apr 10, 2013 |
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Apr 10, 2013 18:20
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DaiJiaTeng posted:Yeah I don't believe anything the consulate says. My anecdote of the Shanghai consulate: Way more information than needed to respond to this, but it's the basis of way way way too much research. The "official" reasons she got shot down: Spouse of an USC "Lack of ties" to China The system is really really really not devised to allow for NRA spouses to apply for anything other than a green card. The entire system is setup on the basis of an assumption that "everyone in the world wants to live in the US, and until you can prove otherwise, we assume you want to immigrate". You're honestly best off never telling them anything about being related to an USC, and never putting them into the system with the IRS. The reason is that they love love love their whole immigration process and hate being tricked out of it. As a USC spouse, if she gets over legally on literally any visa of any kind, she can immediately file for AOS and get a green card. Domestically, the agencies do not care as long as it's not overly obvious that that's what the intent was. Intent is everything, and unless they can dig up evidence of selling off assets prior to the move, they more or less rubber stamp it, and everyone who did it the long-way round hates the fact that the loophole exists. The policy also opens up more people to be paying into the tax system without receiving any benefits from it. As far as the USG is concerned "hey, free money". I guess the position the VO was trying to make is: "You've never met granny, so what the gently caress do you care? Sounds like a bullshit excuse to sneak over." I guess he was saying that everything presented was worthless in his eyes and he wanted to see something else to convince him. Applying again immediately without a "significant change of situation" (ie. having a whole lot of other stuff to show), turns it into "you're wasting our time, stop trying", and then you're effectively blacklisted for a while... afterall, why would someone who doesn't want to immigrate try so hard? "sufficient ties" in the case of a USC+NRA spouse situation are overly burdensome if you're dumb enough to reveal that status (nothing ever asks for it). They want to see that the USC is locked down long-term to China, the marriage has considerable history, hard assets (companies, housing, cars) exist, and ideally the NRA spouse has a stable and secure employment. And even then, it's pretty much luck of the draw and hoping you get a VO that thinks to ask and see all that instead of just doing the easy thing and telling you to gently caress off. Even then, it's easy enough for them to say "housing can be sold or rented out, cars can be sold, companies can be run by someone else, and what's to stop your company from transferring you to the US on request?". My advice in the China thread to all those with wedding plans and no immediate plans to move to the US is: prior to marriage, apply for that visa under whatever bullshit pretense you feel like, because after the first one, they are all easy. If done after marriage, it's best for the NRA spouse to apply through work and leave the whole USC thing out of the picture entirely. If you're already out of the closet about the relationship, seriously, buy some property. Once there's a kid, it gets more fun. It'll cost a small fortune to raise a "foreign" kid in China, but practically nothing if they have a hukou. There's zero benefit to having that US passport, as China will still see them as a citizen and the embassy even admits that they can do nothing if something happens. Under official protocol, they are supposed to attempt to determine if there is a positive claim for citizenship upon visa application and insist that it is resolved. However that process requires, if the USC is the father, submission of sufficient evidence that allows for transmission of citizenship ... and at this phase, yes, you can lie your rear end off with no consequence and later claim you forgot. Unless they can reasonably assert that a valid claim exists, the protocol is to just issue the non-immigrant visa while urging them to assemble evidence to resolve the claim asap (although you never actually have to). Up until the age of 18, you can always waltz in and snap up a CRBA. After 18, it's just a different form and a matter of paying $600 processing instead of $400. It's a one-way street until they are "able to recognize the significance of renouncing", which typically means 18+, and parents have zero ability to renounce, relinquish, suspend, or otherwise alter the USC status of a child. Maintaining a dual-national status is NOT cheap or easy either. The typical setup I have seen for China is: Apply for hukou in some small town that does not care, get China passport Apply for USC, get US passport Take a bullshit trip that routes via HK Swap passports, come back in on US/foreign passport Lose Chinese passport and never speak of it again Maintain valid visa status on the official side to keep up appearances Live life as a Chinese citizen in all other regards and never flash around the US passport inside China apart from border crossings. The PRC is well aware of this scheme and at most tolerates it for minors, however that tolerance shifts with the wind. The system tracks all border crossings and eventually they will see a passport that left, never came back, and if it does come back, has a visa history that raises red flags. Once you're flagged, you're boned. Only way out is to pay for a new hukou and cancel one of them. Either that, or smuggle the kid out of the country and come back. To avoid detection of the dual-status, you travel on the China passport to some neighboring country on a visa that is long enough for the trip and use it as a proxy to mask the foreign passport. However you'll need border control to stamp both passports or, again, it'll create a visa history that raises red flags. The other loophole (now closed pretty much) was to give birth in HK, snap up a HK hukou instead of mainland and maintain the home-return permit, as the only downside is paying an additional fee for local social services / schooling and being disqualified for military duty.
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Apr 10, 2013 18:45
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DaiJiaTeng posted:Yeah I don't believe anything the consulate says. My anecdote of the Shanghai consulate: I think you need to separate carefully the difficulty of getting out of China, to that of getting into the US, and it seems the latter is at play here. I know of a friend who had enormous problems emigrating from the US to live in the UK with her husband, because of a recent government crackdown on 'sham marriages'. They ended up having to get married in a third country, and then do the immigration checks. China isn't the Soviet Union, I don't really see them as having any great interest in preventing people from leaving. The US and a bunch of western countries, meanwhile, has a huge interest in preventing people from getting in. Fangz fucked around with this message at 19:11 on Apr 10, 2013 |
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Apr 10, 2013 19:07
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To be honest though, how many people in a Western guy - Chinese girl relationship are serious about settling down in China? I realize Pro-PRC Laowai is a different case, but by most Western standards eventually settling down in the USA is probably the goal. In those circumstances the policy is quite reasonable. ...Until you get into complex ideas of "what is a nationality, really, anyway?" and "Doesn't everyone have the same human right to live wherever they please", but the adjudicator isn't making immigration policy, just enforcing it.
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Apr 11, 2013 00:35
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hitension posted:To be honest though, how many people in a Western guy - Chinese girl relationship are serious about settling down in China? The key to that however, is "eventually". All it would take to fix the issue for spouses is to close the loophole. However, closing that loophole is not in the interest of current US policy. The way policy is currently implemented, it's a flat out assumption that any attempt by an NRA spouse to enter is a defacto immigration event and the only possible reason anyone would marry a NRA spouse is to either bring them back immediately or to never bother coming back for any reason. The US really really hates expats, deliberate or not. The way the policy works now: A Chinese student with few ties can score a 10-year without any problems. A Chinese spouse with significant ties is pretty much boned.
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Apr 11, 2013 01:16
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Riso posted:That reminds me of Deng Xiaopings when he was told that to gain favoured trading status, China had to allow free emigration. Unless you're a wealthy businessman, politician, or someone else on China's watch list they are more than happy to show you the door. Actually even if you're rich and promise to leave your money at home they probably don't care all that much either. I think people take the Communist shenanigans that went on in the Soviet Union/East Germany and extrapolate it to include China's policies. When in fact China never cared about people leaving. There's just too many drat people.
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Apr 11, 2013 02:27
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DaiJiaTeng posted:Yeah I don't believe anything the consulate says. My anecdote of the Shanghai consulate:
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Apr 11, 2013 02:34
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Modus Operandi posted:A friend of mine brought his Thai fiancee back to the U.S. and married her. The general talk is that it's much more difficult to bring someone to the U.S. _if_ you get married first in their native country. It sounds like really backwards policy but it's some kind of red flag for the consulate to get married first. The fiance visa is way easier to get supposedly. It might have helped that in this case the guy bringing her over was Thai-American around the same age so it wasn't like they thought it was some shady mail order/bargirl deal. Maybe it's different for Thailand (more visa fraud attempts from China I've heard), but the fiance/e visa should be harder to get; somebody who is actually engaged may think differently, but there's very little paperwork to backup the legitimacy of that kind of relationship. If you get married in China and have your red marriage certificate books you have hard evidence of commitment. I got married to my Chinese wife in Bejiing, then got her to the US on a CR-1 visa, which got her a temporary (2 year) green card. No problems during the whole process for us. timtastic fucked around with this message at 03:22 on Apr 11, 2013 |
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Apr 11, 2013 03:20
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Modus Operandi posted:Mao even made a comment with Nixon (or Kissinger?) about sending surplus Chinese women over to the U.S. No one is sure if it was a joke or not but knowing how Mao was he was probably entirely serious about it. Well recently, in the South East Asian Travel/DND thread, a minister did mention having the women marry the foreign men and take all their assets  The communist government is well aware that foreign governments are reluctant to take in its Chinese citizens. Lots of people already added their experience of getting into the US, but I'm going to focus the discussion more on the China side. hitension posted:I've met Chinese people who were rural migrants with about 0 guanxi who got passports, so it must not be THAT hard. Well how else are we suppose to get street making GBS threads tourists spreading ancient Chinese culture across the world  quote:Actually Communist party members do have to apply to go abroad, or somehow record that they are going abroad, but I don't know too much about the inner workings of that. Actual party members and party members do go through more stringent standards for all sorts of things. Some standards can be enforced but like everyone else in China, the official system is actually pretty weak and people just jump around the law/policy. Pre marital sex remains a bit of a no-no for public school teachers and if a teacher has been found out with a baby bump without being married she can get fired. Think we talked about this previously in the thread, but it's ironic that those going through higher standards tend to be more corrupt or willing to bend the system  Pro-PRC Laowai posted:The other loophole (now closed pretty much) was to give birth in HK, snap up a HK hukou instead of mainland and maintain the Can you elaborate more on the schooling or other social services? I have been to a mainland hospital and paid 10 RMB for the doctor's consultation fee, apparently, it's 5 RMB for other Chinese, I wonder how much more do I have to pay for schooling? And universities consider Hongers to be "international students" How much more will they need to pay compared to average mainland kids?There have been larger patrols and arrests on the agents but was there any new legislation or reinterpretation of the Basic Law? As far as I know legally, everything still remains to be the same. If someone can clarify this that would be great, was there a 0 bed policy for non eligible persons of some sort? And being a Permanent Resident is not a HK hukou. There are no restrictions on mobility/schooling bullshit unlike the rest of China. But there are a few draw backs, you will have trouble integrating with the local infrastructure. Credit cards/online banking/online shopping is harder to do and involves lengthier processes. I can't buy a loving train ticket at a electronic counter outside of guangdong province. And get this, there are some hotels where foreigners are not allowed and the only ID card being recognized is a generic China ID and not a Hong Kong/Macau Resident Mainland Pass (通行证) "tongxinzheng" Being a honger in the mainland means being an anomaly  Sure, I am ethnically Han and belong to the PRC but there's always something in the system which just doesn't know how to deal with me hitension posted:To be honest though, how many people in a Western guy - Chinese girl relationship are serious about settling down in China? After the hand over there have been a few waves of reverse immigration for younger Chinese. Either to avoid the atrocious US job market/discover heritage/or just wanting to live in China and look like a visible minority. How about Chinese guy - Western girl relationships  I'm really interested in the dynamics and figures on the rarer pairing.I agree that for most people settling down in the USA is their goal. The US currency is much more valuable, environmentally safer (crime is iffy), the hours better, etc... There is still a very wide gap but for certain industries/sectors/positions, you can do well economically in China and be end up a lot more wealthy in China than the states. I am a self professed "Ameraboo" and love all things Americana but I'm not so sure if I want to stay in some retirement home in North America. But then again, I'm part of the minority who is living relatively well in Hong Kong. caberham fucked around with this message at 03:49 on Apr 11, 2013 |
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Apr 11, 2013 03:46
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You could always come to New Zealand when you're old and rich. It's all the culture of the west without the Somalians.
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Apr 11, 2013 03:57
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Fangz posted:I think you need to separate carefully the difficulty of getting out of China, to that of getting into the US, and it seems the latter is at play here. I know of a friend who had enormous problems emigrating from the US to live in the UK with her husband, because of a recent government crackdown on 'sham marriages'. They ended up having to get married in a third country, and then do the immigration checks. Hmm? My whole thing was talking about the US embassy being ridiculous. We've traveled to a ton of other countries no problem. I never understood people saying there were exit visas/leaving China is impossible. hitension posted:To be honest though, how many people in a Western guy - Chinese girl relationship are serious about settling down in China? My wife and I plan on staying in China for the long-term. If we have a kid we would probably give it Chinese citizenship for a lot of the reasons that Pro-PRC mentioned. There are a couple I know of. Some I've known even go to the US just to get a green card (for status) and then come right back and live in China and brag about it, while saying the US is bad because they made next to nothing. The person in question thought that they would just get rich within a few months of living in the US. Also Pro-PRC, thanks for all the words. After everything happened we researched stuff and a lot of the answers we found were pretty much what you said. It still boggles my mind, though.
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Apr 11, 2013 04:21
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There are some major disadvantages to PRC citizenship though. A US citizen can travel visa-free (or visa on arrival) to 166 countries. For China it's more like 30 (and not so much the "good ones"). I know Chinese citizens studying in the USA can't even hop over the border to Canada to see Niagara falls without a visa. Don't get me wrong, I love China. But I would not want a PRC citizenship.
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Apr 11, 2013 13:50
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Is there an equivalent to permanent residency in China?
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Apr 11, 2013 14:01
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computer parts posted:Is there an equivalent to permanent residency in China? Yep hitension posted:There are some major disadvantages to PRC citizenship though. A US citizen can travel visa-free (or visa on arrival) to 166 countries. For China it's more like 30 (and not so much the "good ones"). I know Chinese citizens studying in the USA can't even hop over the border to Canada to see Niagara falls without a visa. That's basically it though, convenience. Once ya have a few decent visas under your belt, it's just a matter of applying.
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Apr 11, 2013 14:13
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hitension posted:There are some major disadvantages to PRC citizenship though. A US citizen can travel visa-free (or visa on arrival) to 166 countries. For China it's more like 30 (and not so much the "good ones"). I know Chinese citizens studying in the USA can't even hop over the border to Canada to see Niagara falls without a visa. While I agree, if said child lived their life here in China, went to school here, etc. It would probably be better to get them Chinese citizenship. It saves a lot of trouble. computer parts posted:
Yup. Easiest way I know of is that you can apply after having been married to a Chinese national for five years (most of that time has to be spent living in China, I can't remember the exact number). Only thing is they usually want you have own a house and have a stable job etc. (housing being the key difficulty here). Just two more years and I never have to do a stupid visa again.
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Apr 11, 2013 14:57
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DaiJiaTeng posted:
What is this visa/program called, so that I might find more information about it? I'd only ever heard about it becoming easier to get a long L visa (whoopee!) if you were married to a Chinese national.
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Apr 11, 2013 15:33
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VideoTapir posted:What is this visa/program called, so that I might find more information about it? I'd only ever heard about it becoming easier to get a long L visa (whoopee!) if you were married to a Chinese national. 外国人永久居留证 If you go to a visa office they can answer questions you have about it, or you can just 百度 and get a bunch of info. Honestly I don't know how hard it is to actually get one. When I talked to the guy at the visa office he made it seem like it wouldn't be too difficult after fulfilling the time requirements and having a steady job and a house, but I honestly don't know for sure.
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Apr 11, 2013 16:25
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VideoTapir posted:What is this visa/program called, so that I might find more information about it? I'd only ever heard about it becoming easier to get a long L visa (whoopee!) if you were married to a Chinese national. DaiJiaTeng posted:外国人永久居留证 5 years of marriage, with 9+ months each year in-country and having stable housing and living conditions. Basically meaning, yes, you own an apartment and have either a very stable job or a nice pile of cash (honestly speaking, cash is best, time deposit in your name of 10w+ should do it). Then the hassle of proving you're not a criminal via a background check that is notarized by the Chinese embassy. Something showing you have stable income (either you or spouse), and be prepared for the PSB to poke around your area finding out about you. If you're not entirely sure of the current expectations, you're best off finding an attorney for a consultation to help. Perks (apart from the obvious): No more work permit required, if you're a freelancer, you can freelance all you want. No more fear of deportation for doing something stupid, it becomes really really really hard to just kick you out. If you do something stupid, you're treated just the same as everyone else (yes, that means detention/prison/etc. but no deportation). You get to cause confusion when someone asks for a passport, and you show them the card instead (which they have probably never seen before in their lives)
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Apr 11, 2013 20:49
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Why would you voluntarily choose to send your kids to school in China  I mean we're veering into personal life decisions which is not really what this thread is for, but in general I think the system which produces adults that are creative/assertive and somewhat worse at math is better than the other way around. Gaokao (and the similar systems they have in Korea, Japan, etc) just seems to ruin childhoods somehow. Not to mention whatever teasing your child would get for looking different.
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Apr 12, 2013 00:11
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On Chinese passports. There are actually 2 kinds of passports. One is a blue one for diplomatic/business passport and the other one is an ordinary one. During the 70's/early 80's there were major restrictions on overseas travel for the average Chinese. It was not easy to travel back then and Chinese could only do group tours with a one time use diplomatic passport. Wonton's dad was all over Europe and East Germany during the 70's and traveling was actually very very hard. The RMB was worthless compared to foreign currencies and many items such as a dress shirt for a business meeting had to be scrounged up from personal savings. People had to borrow from families to purchase a camera to keep up with appearances. This is more of a personal story than DnD. Nowadays, it's easy to get out of China as long as the other countries welcome you  Pro-PRC Laowai posted:No more fear of deportation for doing something stupid, it becomes really really really hard to just kick you out. If you do something stupid, you're treated just the same as everyone else (yes, that means detention/prison/etc. but no deportation). But does this make you a Chinese national? Can you actually become stateless and pick up Chinese Nationality and get a China passport? So if you travel overland to Hong Kong, does that mean you can't use the non-mainland visitor line and wait for 2 more extra hours like every mainland tour group A Hong Kong goon from the US recently gained HK permanent residency. He has the Right of Abode but he still needs a passport for other countries. So he is in the processing of renouncing his US citizenship and picking up Chinese nationality and a Hong Kong SAR passport. Just wondering if non Chinese citizens can do the same in mainland China after gaining Permanent residency. Nice thing about HK compared to the mainland. No need to get married  And homosexual marriages from foreign countries are recognized! Except local ones because of our evangelical Christians who also happen to be the same guys for Universal Suffrage hitension posted:Why would you voluntarily choose to send your kids to school in China Yes yes yes, education in China is horrifying. But a local public school is one of the faster & cheaper ways to learn Chinese which does wonders to children growing up in China. With careful planning and parenting you can always put your child to another country or type of schooling. Schooling is not mutually exclusive  The greatest institute of education won't help your kid if he gets shot in a Kindergarten But then again, he might get stabbed by a crazy dude from Henan. Yes Chinese can be awfully racist against people with a darker complexion but do they do the "mixed blood kid" bullying like Japan or Korea? I thought everyone goes crazy over multiracial babies "because they look so beautiful" 
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Apr 12, 2013 05:46
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An SCMP article mentioned a video circulating online of a mainlander refusing to pay for the MTR and demanding to speak to the 'leader of the station' only to be told by the staff that Hong Kong is a society of rules and laws and not powerful leaders, which got him to shut up and everyone clapped and a hot woman gave Hong Kong a blowjob. I really wanted to see this video because it sounded like HK's very own shitthatdidnthappen.txt I couldn't find it. But I did find the best YouTube channel ever: ChineseGoBackToChina. It sounds like something from turn-of-the-20th-century North America, but it's really apparently a pissed off liberal Hong Konger. The huge majority of the videos are of anti-establishment politicians making fiery speeches in the LegCo, but they also have some fun videos of mainlanders embarrassing themselves. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHw48wj_v5c Here's a guy on the ferry to Macau, being told he can't just let his baby stroller block the aisle. He flips his poo poo and says everyone is leaving strollers in the aisle, so why are they discriminating against him? The staff proceed to show him up and down the entirety of the ferry, demonstrating that no one else has left a baby stroller in the passenger aisle. He decides to leave the unfolded stroller in the luggage rack, which the staff tells him is also unacceptable because it's for luggage. He flips his poo poo even more, literally calls the attendants dogs and says that Hong Kong people are bullies. The (presumably majority Hong Kong) passengers begin to boo him and tell him to go back to China. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HiD9vpHMmU I don't know too much of what's going on in this literal brawl, but the description says it arose from a mainland couple not giving up their seats on the MTR to the elderly and infirm. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7pqR08NM1I This beatdown has no explanation. They say the police have a suspect. It's hard to watch
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Apr 12, 2013 07:11
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For all your English translations concerning mainlanders: badcanto.wordpress.com https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arew6jVcs-k Get all your horrible news involving mainlanders here! When Thatcher fell lost her balance in Beijing, everyone in Hong Kong saw it as a sign of "HK will be hosed over" because losing your step in Cantonese slang literally means “falling down the street" (扑街) And now the opening conference for the HK Alliance for True Democracy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueDcjHVI4M8 Yep. I see the sign of the times And then you see some conspiracy stuff  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVdNiwfZxVc caberham fucked around with this message at 08:03 on Apr 12, 2013 |
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Apr 12, 2013 07:24
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caberham posted:
1. The chance of dying in a school shooting in the United States is so minimal, let alone in a kindergarten, as to be a virtual non-issue compared to the near-guaranteed destroyed childhood that Chinese schooling will give you. 2. The extra attention is NOT a good thing. I knew a couple in Beijing, American dad and third-country wife sent their kid to local preschool and she was basically subject to all kinds of scary "oh how cute" assaults by strangers who would presume to pick her up. Of course, they were not actually equipped to deal with a kid from another background, so she was simply presumed to be mute and basically left out of everything. Last time I saw her her language development was pretty messed up. I'm worried about how that kid is going to turn out. They should really have gone back to the states, but I think the dad found a job above anything he would get back home.
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Apr 12, 2013 13:13
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Fiendish_Ghoul posted:1. The chance of dying in a school shooting in the United States is so minimal, let alone in a kindergarten, as to be a virtual non-issue compared to the near-guaranteed destroyed childhood that Chinese schooling will give you. That's a wee bit dramatic isn't it? quote:2. The extra attention is NOT a good thing. I knew a couple in Beijing, American dad and third-country wife sent their kid to local preschool and she was basically subject to all kinds of scary "oh how cute" assaults by strangers who would presume to pick her up. Of course, they were not actually equipped to deal with a kid from another background, so she was simply presumed to be mute and basically left out of everything. Last time I saw her her language development was pretty messed up. I'm worried about how that kid is going to turn out. They should really have gone back to the states, but I think the dad found a job above anything he would get back home. I know a couple (both Italian citizens) who work in China. Their daughter has blonde hair and blue eyes, goes to Chinese schools and speaks fluent Chinese (as in, exactly the same as the Chinese kids, no accent or anything). She has a lot of friends and gets along well with her classmates. I mean it's just anecdotal, but since you threw one out I thought I would too. But since our conversation was more about half-Chinese babies: language development, in cases where one spouse is Chinese, would probably be a non-issue since they would grow up hearing and speaking Chinese from a very young age. I mean it's a life choice thing and just comes down to where you want to raise your child. Both the US and China are valid choices, you can raise a well-adjusted, educated child with excellent critical-thinking skills in either country. Edit because I forgot to add this: caberham posted:Nice thing about HK compared to the mainland. No need to get married And homosexual marriages from foreign countries are recognized! I didn't know this and it's really cool. I hope that the mainland can improve in this sense, gay marriage and homosexuality in general is becoming a more discussed topic in the mainland. While there is still tons of prejudice (god don't even need to go into that), the acceptance of homosexuality and transgendered people is improving in many ways. Has anyone ever watched 金星撞火星(It first started showing in 2012)？The host, 金星(Jin xing) is pretty much the most famous modern dancer in China, and probably one of the most famous modern Chinese dancers in the world. Jin xing got a sex change (male to female) in 1995. Went through a lot of hardship (her family was apparently horrified), but is still highly highly respected in the dancing world, still teaches dancing and hosts shows, etc. She adopted three children and is currently married (I believe her husband is German). Anyway the show above is a talk show where she discusses different issues of the day with experts, etc.. It's kind of hit or miss, but sometimes they touch on some really interesting topics and opinions. Anyway, I just think she has an interesting story. It shows that more people are opening up and hopefully it will continue. DaiJiaTeng fucked around with this message at 07:22 on Apr 13, 2013 |
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Apr 13, 2013 06:59
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caberham posted:Yes Chinese can be awfully racist against people with a darker complexion but do they do the "mixed blood kid" bullying like Japan or Korea? I thought everyone goes crazy over multiracial babies "because they look so beautiful"
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Apr 13, 2013 08:31
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Reception of half black, half Chinese in China: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=120311417 (There's the tacky China Smack article if you want to go search for that too) Anyway, I really feel like to "get ahead" in China as a Chinese citizen it's all about becoming a Party member. I'm not even sure if half Chinese people qualify for this. The other problem is once you are a Communist Party member, it becomes harder to immigrate to the USA. Basically if you're looking at just the USA and China, what is considered desirable in one society is undesirable in the other and vice versa. If you have to hedge your bets with just one country, despite the fear-mongering I think the USA is still a safer bet than China.
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Apr 13, 2013 15:34
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Doctor Meat posted:I don't know what the experience is like for children specifically, but I received many compliments as a Eurasian adult in mainland China, and even more in Hong Kong. The Eurasian look is depicted as a common ideal of beauty in many ads. People would often say I had "the best of both worlds". That being said, I'm pretty sure this phenomenon does not extend to other multiracial combinations. If I was half black and half Chinese instead I think that my reception would have been very different. This sort of thing is very colonial. It's kind of like how the French used to breed half white and black individuals to create a rift in the ruling class in countries like Haiti. It's really brilliant because it reinforces the class system with physical attributes like race. In Asia it's a bit more superficial since I don't recall very many high ranking ceos of major industry or politicians that are hapa. I think those doors tend to slam shut pretty quick but a lot of hapas become very successful in show biz in Asia. Dancing monkey/white god syndrome.. There was a Thai princess who did marry an American guy though but I think her royal title and that of her deceased kid got demoted to symbolic status pretty quickly. Modus Operandi fucked around with this message at 23:39 on Apr 13, 2013 |
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Apr 13, 2013 23:36
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Yeah, the eldest one who makes movies. They met at MIT when she was getting her degree in molecular biology or something. I believe he was a USAF pilot. Random factoids that may or may not be true. She was returned some official status when she left him, but I believe she is no longer technically in the line of succession. I agree with your assessment, at least among the Thai-Chinese/Thai cultures. Luu-Kreung (half-bloods, literally) can often be adored, especially as children, and probably would be able to rise quite high in any profession, but the Thai-Chinese run a pretty closed shop in the economy and the Thais and Thai-Chinese run a 100% closed shop in the military-political end of the equation. Still, let us never forget the examples of Bill Heinecke, Jim Thompson, Robert Rosenstein, Michael Kenny and others. Thailand will let you succeed on the economy side as a foreigner provided you manage not to upset the apple cart and plenty of Thais and Thai-Chinese get rich with you, one way or the other. I don't see that this wouldn't apply to a mixed race Thai kid, though they would get different treatment than a pure foreigner. Still, yeah, the desire is for you to be sit around being pretty, not to try to take over SCG, heh. I'm surprised the half-breed thing is considered colonial, though. I don't know if I can agree with that here in never-really-colonized-except-by-Japan-sort-of-don't-mention-the-war-okay land. I think it's tied into some kind of largely urban affection for interrrrrr things. Like, how pretty your baby na ka, look very society! I want one!!! It's like having a chihuahua in your purse or using the latest iPad publicly or whatever. My fiance jokes that she's worried that by the time we have kids half-blood kids won't be popular anymore because of all the sex pensioners having kids with bargirls, heh. Jokes, half-jokes, not sure. Maybe right! Are there any examples of foreigners starting and successfully running relatively large companies in China?
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Apr 14, 2013 02:45
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ReindeerF posted:
Fonterra and Zespri are the closest companies I know that had foreigners start up their local domestic farms in the Mainland. Probably a collective thing though, being a monopsony and all.
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Apr 14, 2013 03:39
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If there are any, they'd have to be super recent. China didn't really have companies besides SOEs in 1950s-1980s (time period based on the Westerners in Thailand you linked) and for quite a long time after that firms had to be joint ventures with at least 50% Chinese ownership/involvement. Now a wholly foreign owned firm is OK but it's still kind of a mess to navigate the Chinese system on your own.It's only recently that I've heard of Chinese brands having any influence outside of China in general (Haier? Lenovo?) so a foreign owned firm within China seems even less likely. Maybe I am overlooking something? e: VVV I love when white people use 白 in their Chinese names 
hitension fucked around with this message at 04:11 on Apr 14, 2013 |
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Apr 14, 2013 03:54
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There's also Sidney Rittenberg. Not a CEO but probably rose to higher levels in modern China than any other foreigner. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidney_Rittenberg On another note, Singapore has actually had some fairly high level Eurasian politicians.
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Apr 14, 2013 03:58
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Speaking of Chinese business, should I be concerned that Huawei is going to be linking my country up to 4G broadband?
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Apr 14, 2013 04:11
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WarpedNaba posted:Speaking of Chinese business, should I be concerned that Huawei is going to be linking my country up to 4G broadband? I dunno, how much was your country already spying on you?
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Apr 14, 2013 04:47
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DaiJiaTeng posted:
Adrastus fucked around with this message at 04:56 on Apr 14, 2013 |
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Apr 14, 2013 04:53
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Adrastus posted:Is there? I myself have never perceived any objection to homosexuality from mainlanders, though granted its been a while I was last there. It was just a thing that nobody knows or cares about. Yeah absolutely, the young people are talking about homosexuality and in the cities you see people coming out pretty openly, there are gay bars and hangouts etc. It was never a thing that nobody knows or cares about; that's what people think when they see a culture that has repressed it so much that random heterosexuals don't know or care about it. I expect there will be a backlash when whoever's in charge of sexual repression figures it out. I don't really talk to the people who I would expect to form the backlash. Honestly I think the people who would be the vanguard of suppressing homosexuality have their hands full with a burgeoning sexual revolution in China. It's basically going on without people talking about it in the open but young people have very different, you might even say diametrically opposed attitudes towards sex compared to the senior cohort. I can't stress enough the effect the internet has had in reversing attitudes about sex. Chinese sex education is virtually nonexistent and apparently people just don't talk to their kids about it; so the repressed attitude was the norm and passed down to kids. Now with the internet people have access to a huge variety of information and attitudes about sex, and naturally it is making them more confident and adventurous. Pretty soon talk about sex is going to come off the internet and the older generation is going to realize that 70+% of the under 30s cohort is having premarital sex. China really needs to get on sexual education though because kids are getting their sexual education from internet forums and internet porn, which is better than the nothing whatsoever they were probably getting before but not great. Condom usage is abysmal both from anecdotal evidence and from studies, and birth control in general isn't keeping up with sexual behavior. Abortions are used way too commonly as a form of birth control, from any standpoint you choose to look at it.
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Apr 14, 2013 05:03
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Arglebargle III posted:I dunno, how much was your country already spying on you? Considering I work for our version of the Bureau of Weights and Measures, I'd go out on a limb and say 'Up to and including my favorite logged fetishes'.
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Apr 14, 2013 05:21
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WarpedNaba posted:Considering I work for our version of the Bureau of Weights and Measures, I'd go out on a limb and say 'Up to and including my favorite logged fetishes'. Well then nothing should be appreciably different, only now China's internet security groups will be able to access that information by leaning the slightest tiniest bit on Huawei. It's slightly hilarious that China is mad about Huawei being shut out of the U.S. market by Congress as their military is hacking everything willy nilly and giving no fucks about whether they get caught because there are "no consequences." It's like Chinese society in macrocosm, everyone treat each other like poo poo and there are no consequences except hey bro why are you treating me like poo poo?! Too unexpected!
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Apr 14, 2013 05:29
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