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emoticon posted:Oh man. The longer the development cycle, the more of a hit the game has to be to recoup costs. When you're making an FPS, that means moving as far away from simplistic Doom-style run and gun gameplay and as close to CoD-style cinematic gameplay and multiplayer as you can in hopes of grabbing a large audience. And if you're mandated with making something as big of a hit as Skyrim? Man, this makes me really sad. I'm a huge fanboy of id, and it hurts to hear that their digging their own grave down there. Especially after Rage it has become clear that id is not quite able to deliver a compelling player experience. The tech is great, 60fps and beautiful landscapes and all, but people still find their products dull. I don't think any of their games since Quake 3 have been at all relevant. "Shotguns and demons" will simply not cut it in 2013. Wasn't DNF basically that? The train for those titles has left a long time ago. I honestly don't see why they can't just focus all of their efforts on producing tech for the ZeniMax family and selling it to the outside world. Kind of like Epic, minus the successful titles like GoW. I'm sure there's room in the market for another compelling engine. And yeah, they'd probably have to lay off everybody but the developers, which would suck, but maybe is still better than churning out mediocre titles?
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Apr 14, 2013 01:49
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oswald ownenstein posted:Hey - did any of you guys check out that bit about iD and Doom 4? Am I the only one that thinks all they had to do was take Doom 2 and make it 3d? The game itself is still fun. I would kill for an "HD" remake. That's all they had to do with Doom 3 and they fumbled that too 
xgalaxy fucked around with this message at 01:56 on Apr 14, 2013 |
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Apr 14, 2013 01:53
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xgalaxy posted:Am I the only one that thinks all they had to do was take Doom 2 and make it 3d? I would love to see (and in addition, work on) a modern day shooter with gameplay and maps similar to Doom 2 or even Quake 3 maybe, but with the updated graphics. I just think of all the crazy configurations of walkways and stuff you could make with modern engines, like just amping up everything from Doom/Quake/Unreal Tournament/etc to the maximum.
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Apr 14, 2013 02:12
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On a very related note, Chris Roberts did a podcast on the topic of AAA titles and their underlying economics: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZWaBnpSvUk. Probably got posted here before, but just in case...
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Apr 14, 2013 02:17
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xgalaxy posted:Am I the only one that thinks all they had to do was take Doom 2 and make it 3d? Well a lot of us really enjoyed Doom 3 as-is and it sold well/was a critical success. So I wouldn't throw Doom 3 under the bus. Rage was a little weak, though.
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Apr 14, 2013 02:55
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DreadCthulhu posted:Man, this makes me really sad. I'm a huge fanboy of id, and it hurts to hear that their digging their own grave down there. Especially after Rage it has become clear that id is not quite able to deliver a compelling player experience. The tech is great, 60fps and beautiful landscapes and all, but people still find their products dull. I don't think any of their games since Quake 3 have been at all relevant. "Shotguns and demons" will simply not cut it in 2013. Wasn't DNF basically that? The train for those titles has left a long time ago. Shotguns and demons with great level design, enemy behavior and weapons totally could cut it in 2013. DNF's biggest problem was that it was completely tone deaf and also a bad game. I just don't think ID games since Q3 have had the quality level design and focus on gameplay they had 10+ years ago.
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Apr 14, 2013 07:22
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Rage was the most relentlessly mediocre thing I've ever played. There wasn't a single bit of anything that got good enough to be memorable nor bad enough to hate. Towards the end of the game I was continuing just to make sure there wasn't something that would swing it one way or the other, because the only thing interesting about Rage was how uninteresting it was. I'm kind of in the camp of "Just do Doom II again but better" because their attempts at "Modern" FPSes really seem to be falling flat. Just give us a fast, vicious FPS with healthpacks and tons of weapons again, because at this point that's the under-represented genre in the FPS sphere and I'm sure people would eat it up. For everything that John Romero's done wrong in his career, he does make a decent designer, so long as he's working within constraints. Without someone tugging a leash now and then you get Daikatana. Carmack on the other hand is too constrained, and while he's god-emperor of game engines, he's so vanilla of imagination it hurts.
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Apr 14, 2013 08:28
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Maybe I'm in the minority but I thought Rage was better than mediocre. Solid, I would say. It was definitely lackluster in some respects but it was still a decent title all things considered.
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Apr 14, 2013 08:53
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Lieutenant Dan posted:I have a phone interview with Blizzard for quest writing next week! I've only worked at small studios before and this would be my first AAA. To boot, it's the first non-QA industry job I've ever interviewed for. Any advice? I have asked a friend of mine who was formerly a quest designer for World of Warcraft, and he says: quote:a phone interview? This, apparently, got him the job. Apologies for the formatting; I asked him on IRC and reproduced his response exactly. E: he adds: quote:I left out the part where they started laughing Bongo Bill fucked around with this message at 09:15 on Apr 14, 2013 |
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Apr 14, 2013 09:10
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Yep, some Blizzard designers not only read but post in this thread. I'm formerly of the blue myself, and have decent experience there (though not the most current; it's been a few years). I'm sure they've caught it. Hey, at least no one's given you bad advice so far.  Honestly, as far as writing in MMOs goes, I would rather have a competent designer who really gets mechanics and can write at a coherent level than a writer who is entering MMO quest design because he wants to tell stories. The former understands the bulk of his work and needs very little hand-holding; maybe one of the actual writers on staff has to punch up their dialogue a bit, but that takes far less time than correcting poor design. Games need better writing in general, sure, but they don't need a lot of writers to do it. That can be accomplished with a few solid narrative guys and content leads who understand the direction. In interviews, I am generally more impressed with and interested in those who are focused on explaining interesting and fun quest design than those who are waxing poetic about their writing chops. Unless structure has considerably changed (and I'll wager it hasn't) you're applying for quest designer, not quest writer. So yeah, definitely familiarize yourself with the current state of WoW and its quest design direction. (Ask what project you're applying for, but I'm 90% sure it's WoW, considering.)
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Apr 14, 2013 09:38
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The first time I played Minecraft was a day before my interview at 4J and even that was the mobile version.  i am an inspiration to all
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Apr 14, 2013 12:43
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Chernabog posted:Maybe I'm in the minority but I thought Rage was better than mediocre. Solid, I would say. It was definitely lackluster in some respects but it was still a decent title all things considered. Mechanically and systematically Rage was and is fantastic. It's problem is that there just wasn't enough content to give those elements lasting weight and importance.
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Apr 14, 2013 14:52
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Does everyone at Blizzard drink coffee out of boar skull mugs now? I want to imagine so.
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Apr 14, 2013 17:07
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Here's something interesting. To everyone who gets scared by job requirements, here's the responsibilities list for the job I just got hired at (QA Manager): • Interfacing with recruitment ‘firms’ when needing to hire testers- Have never done • Hiring, Promoting, Firing and Laying off of testers/leads- Have never done professionally • Managing the tester’s hours - This entails working with [Name] (corporate controller) in making sure they are correctly paid correctly- Have never done professionally • Managing the testers during the day. Making sure they stay on task, are working up to [Company]'s standards • Point person for managers to interact with when there are QA issues that need to be addressed. • Provide updates and information to the management team in the weekly manager’s meeting. • Relays necessary information to the test teams. • Controlling and being responsible for the equipment inventory- Have never done • Point person and responsible for 1st Party equipment orders and replacements- Have never done • Manages the Dev Site accounts for [Company]- Have never done • Responsible for signing off on product submission – Products should leave the Supervisor’s QA unless he is happy with what is being submitted- Have never done professionally • In charge of setting up OT and helping manage the testers during OT- Have Never Done Professionally • Able to download and burn builds when needed • Effective management of the applicable databases • Localization tests and checks on the PAL builds So, about a quarter of the list I'd never done at all, and another quarter I'd never been paid to do, but it was still enough to get me the job. While it's true I've had a good bit of experience in the things I had done, I can't help but think that an impassioned yet knowledgeable interview is what sealed the deal for me. Bottom line? Don't be afraid to apply for something even if you don't meet all the critera- you might be what they're looking for even if you (and they) don't know it yet! 
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Apr 14, 2013 19:11
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GetWellGamers posted:Bottom line? Don't be afraid to apply for something even if you don't meet all the critera- you might be what they're looking for even if you (and they) don't know it yet! Job requirements are usually way higher than they need to be because it's such a hirer's market (this applies to jobs outside of game development as well; in regular software development, HR departments will put in as many programming languages and certifications they can think of for positions that don't possibly need them). On the flip side, game studios get a lot of resumes from people who aren't even remotely qualified for the positions they are applying for. So it's terrible for everyone all around and the hiring process sucks basically.
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Apr 14, 2013 20:03
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Chernabog posted:Maybe I'm in the minority but I thought Rage was better than mediocre. Solid, I would say. It was definitely lackluster in some respects but it was still a decent title all things considered. Rage had some really mediocre parts because they tried to do too much - a quest system without a real leveling system seems silly, the open world driving around got pretty dull, but the gunplay itself was loving fantastic and certainly better than the mediocre gunplay of everyone's beloved Bioshock series (I love Bioshock don't get me wrong). Oh, and Carmack isn't involved with the creative aspects, he just does his technical thing. He might say something like the article said "guys doom is about shotguns and demons" but he isn't like Blizzard's Metzen or anything. If there's anyone you want to blame for id's problems lately it's probably Tim Willits 
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Apr 14, 2013 20:23
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oswald ownenstein posted:Rage had some really mediocre parts because they tried to do too much - a quest system without a real leveling system seems silly, the open world driving around got pretty dull, but the gunplay itself was loving fantastic and certainly better than the mediocre gunplay of everyone's beloved Bioshock series (I love Bioshock don't get me wrong). ... it's just then that's over, and you're back to weak sauce open world genero talk'y drive'y stuff.
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Apr 14, 2013 20:28
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emoticon posted:Job requirements are usually way higher than they need to be because it's such a hirer's market (this applies to jobs outside of game development as well; in regular software development, HR departments will put in as many programming languages and certifications they can think of for positions that don't possibly need them). On the flip side, game studios get a lot of resumes from people who aren't even remotely qualified for the positions they are applying for. So it's terrible for everyone all around and the hiring process sucks basically. True, but that's half their problem. The half that's your problem is being intimidated into not applying. As Wayne Gretzky famously said, "You miss 100% of the shots you never take."
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Apr 14, 2013 20:31
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emoticon posted:Job requirements are usually way higher than they need to be because it's such a hirer's market (this applies to jobs outside of game development as well; in regular software development, HR departments will put in as many programming languages and certifications they can think of for positions that don't possibly need them). On the flip side, game studios get a lot of resumes from people who aren't even remotely qualified for the positions they are applying for. So it's terrible for everyone all around and the hiring process sucks basically. A lot of job postings are generally the same as each other in regard to lovely required skills etc, so unless it looks like a person has put a lot of effort in describing the kind of person they want, I just think gently caress it and apply anyway. It also doesn't help that lots of postings are listed by recruiters who will follow desired requirements to the dot; "No three years of experience? Not released two games? On 'yer bike son" Speculative application snooping can sometimes help though. I found a new small indie that said they weren't looking for anyone right now, but they liked my stuff and said my skills match up to a role they're looking to hire later in the year.
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Apr 14, 2013 20:46
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Fell behind this thread a while back, and just finally caught up. Happy with my new gig, after about six months in position. Relocated my family from Canada to Germany and we are settled in. Working at Bigpoint, located in Hamburg. Producing for a team of approximately 40 developers on one of the 300 MOBA games coming out this year  I was at GDC, and saw exactly one panel because I was demoing our new title for press the entire time. Fortunately the parties were awesomely productive, and I managed to catch up with a ton of old friends. Still got nailed by some virus, although to be fair to GDC I'm pretty sure someone gave it to me on the plane ride back. If designers, especially gameplay designers are interested in working in Europe, fire me a message.
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Apr 14, 2013 22:38
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anime was right fucked around with this message at 07:09 on Apr 18, 2017 |
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Apr 14, 2013 22:52
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EgonSpengler posted:Fell behind this thread a while back, and just finally caught up. Say hi to Jeremy for me
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Apr 14, 2013 23:16
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Shalinor posted:I loathed Rage, but for that couple of minutes where I was actually just in a place and shooting guys - it was fantastic. The gun mechanics and controls were spot on. The enemies had great reactivity to being shot in different spots, etc, all very fun. Rocket Rally. I kind of want to meet the guy that was like 'you know what's fun? Bullshit random check point racing where the AI is only ever going to come after you and everyone can turn on a dime.'
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Apr 14, 2013 23:24
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I think Rage is a perfect example of how video games
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Apr 14, 2013 23:41
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Shalinor posted:I loathed Rage, but for that couple of minutes where I was actually just in a place and shooting guys - it was fantastic. The gun mechanics and controls were spot on. The enemies had great reactivity to being shot in different spots, etc, all very fun. It annoyed me that when I finished there was no way to go back and do the side missions... then I saw it was in the DLC. 
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Apr 14, 2013 23:43
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Cyster posted:Yep, some Blizzard designers not only read but post in this thread. I'm formerly of the blue myself, and have decent experience there (though not the most current; it's been a few years). I'm sure they've caught it. Hey, at least no one's given you bad advice so far. This is actually really good news, because I'm honestly a game designer who writes, not a writer. I was actually concerned that they'd want someone with more classic screenwriting experience. Bongo Bill, tell your friend thanks! Having to come up with stuff on the fly hadn't occurred to me, so I'll have to practice.
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Apr 15, 2013 06:43
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DreadCthulhu posted:"Shotguns and demons" will simply not cut it in 2013. Wasn't DNF basically that? The train for those titles has left a long time ago. No, DNF wasn't that at all. Their marketing said it was "like an oldschool FPS", but that was just a defense mechanism to deflect accusations about it sucking. Horrible combat feel, turret segments, usually fighting two enemies at a time, tops (I remember a new enemy would teleport in only after you killed the previous enemy)... it was very modern in these respects. I really hated Doom 3. Didn't mind Rage much, liked the shooting, disliked the level design and pretty much everything else that wasn't shooting some dude. Didn't finish it, though. I figure id software is pretty unlikely to make an interesting game in the future, especially if you're hoping that they make a "true successor" to Doom 2. Not just because of their designers (did losing Romero really cripple them?), but because I really doubt Bethesda would let them make something that strayed too far from their proven formulas. I'd really love to see a modernized Doom 2 with RPG elements, though. Maybe I'll try to make one??? If I don't I bet Vlambeer does, or some other small developer. There's a bunch of interesting FPS + procedural content stuff being worked on, mostly by developers that grew up on Doom. A successful DOOM REVIVAL + RPG is definitely going to happen eventually, it's just not going to be made by id software.
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Apr 15, 2013 08:00
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Someone just needs to remake Strife. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bGfU57F06Q alternately: Cybermage!
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Apr 15, 2013 08:07
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Bwhahaha DNF beign shotguns and demons. No the only thing demonic about it was the game. It was horrible. It is example of what happens when a game is stuck in dev hell. It doesn't look pretty. God I can't believe I put 20 hours into that crap. Also yeah ID isn't what it used to be. I would say yes Romero was an essential part of that team. Yeah he did make Daikatana but at least he ain't George Broussard. Carmack is a great person but only one person can do so much for a game. RAGE felt more of technical/graphical showcase much more than a game. And doom 3? Let's not even begin why the hell that game just downright boring.
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Apr 15, 2013 08:08
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Kepa posted:No, DNF wasn't that at all. Their marketing said it was "like an oldschool FPS", but that was just a defense mechanism to deflect accusations about it sucking. Horrible combat feel, turret segments, usually fighting two enemies at a time, tops (I remember a new enemy would teleport in only after you killed the previous enemy)... it was very modern in these respects. Just make an actual first person version of DoomRL. Then the meta-cycle will be complete. Also cause DoomRL is seriously loving awesome, and it has both the RPG and procedurally generated elements you're looking for, with the challenge of a roguelike, and the accessibility of....something not a roguelike.
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Apr 15, 2013 10:26
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I think Doom 3 gets a bad rap, rather unfairly. Possibly because the original Doom meant different things to different people. To some it was a fast paced shooter with tons of enemies on screen. To me, personally it was the atmosphere created by the back story that made the game, it just couldn't be realised with the technology of the time. I thought Doom 3 nailed that atmosphere perfectly.
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Apr 15, 2013 12:53
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The Oid posted:I think Doom 3 gets a bad rap, rather unfairly. Possibly because the original Doom meant different things to different people. To some it was a fast paced shooter with tons of enemies on screen. I did QA for Bethesda last summer and ended up spending a lot of time on Doom 3 BFG. I'd never played it before but I thought it was pretty fun overall. The atmosphere was great and I found myself enjoying it more than I have with the latest in CoD and Halo, though maybe that was just for the sake of it being different. Its encounters were pretty well done, I thought. Lots of fun, quick fights in tight spaces made for some pretty tense situations. Especially on Nightmare.
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Apr 15, 2013 13:06
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Theoretical question time. You work your way up from QA and become a designer within say 6 years. You pitch a game to the studio, the game is made, you are lead designer on the title. How hire-able are you by other studios and what sort of positions would you theoretically be looking at applying for?
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Apr 15, 2013 13:25
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Monster w21 Faces posted:You pitch a game to the studio, the game is made, you are lead designer on the title. "Very" (assuming the title wasn't a total clusterfuck). Depending on team-size on the previous title, you'd be looking at another Lead Designer gig, maybe creative / design director at a smaller studio. At a larger AAA place, you might slot down to a Senior Designer or a Lead X Designer (Lead Systems, Lead Content, etc).
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Apr 15, 2013 13:29
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Monster w21 Faces posted:Theoretical question time. How long did this person spend as a lead designer? That has some relevance. If I were interviewing this person I would be wondering why it took them 6 years to get out of QA. If I were hiring for a lead design role I would probably (bear in mind I'm in the UK here but I expect it's the same in most places) expect to get a bunch more qualified candidates (in terms of years spent as a designer, and maybe lead designer). So this person's chances of landing that role would be slim unless it fit them exceptionally well for some reason. I would consider them suitable for a full design role, with the expectation of transitioning to senior designer reasonably quickly if they performed well. [Edit: I like how different my response is from devilmouse's. I guess my hiring criteria are pretty stringent! ]
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Apr 15, 2013 13:36
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Maugrim posted:[Edit: I like how different my response is from devilmouse's. I guess my hiring criteria are pretty stringent! Heh - I tend to give the benefit of the doubt and if I saw a resume with Lead Designer on some vaguely decent-ish game, I'd give him a phone call at least. If it was Lead Designer on some student project, that's a very different story. I also may have read "6 years" as "6 years in Design" and not "It took me 6 years to get promoted out of QA". Reading is hard in the morning =(
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Apr 15, 2013 13:50
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Monster w21 Faces posted:How hire-able are you by other studios and what sort of positions would you theoretically be looking at applying for? To me senior positions are people who have been doing that discipline for a while and shown they have a lot of aptitude (they may have been leads on a few other projects, but the lead position was already taken on this one). To me, depending on the scale & since the length of experience isn't there I'd probably look at hiring them just as a "designer" still, but with a thought that depending on how the next year / project went they could be getting bumped up quite quickly.
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Apr 15, 2013 14:22
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Diplomaticus posted:Just make an actual first person version of DoomRL. Then the meta-cycle will be complete. Also cause DoomRL is seriously loving awesome, and it has both the RPG and procedurally generated elements you're looking for, with the challenge of a roguelike, and the accessibility of....something not a roguelike. That's the plan. I often say the exact same thing above to the guy that makes DoomRL. I've been wanting to do this for awhile, and we're going to make some time for it after we port our next game to PC. Will see what we can do with it in a short time, as a sort of break between projects.
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Apr 15, 2013 18:31
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I kind of want to do something FPS'y now, if only so that I can play with the cool kids and try out the Occulus Rift. 3D sidescrollers are... not such a good choice for that hardware. (which is to say, please make your FPS DoomRL support that, because a VR-supportive roguelike would be awesome)
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Apr 15, 2013 18:50
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Maugrim posted:
This part worries me because I'm on year 6 of QA. Essentially it took until I was 20 to get out of a toxic home life and since then I've been learning to focus and deal with the leftover anxiety, but that's pretty personal and I really hate whining about personal issues. I prefer to deal with them, but dealing with them has taken time. D1Sergo fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Apr 15, 2013 |
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