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Giving that much money you'd be way better off contacting the developers and demanding a percentage share of the finished project. Like how investing worked before kickstarter. The entire point of which is diminished by one person funding a quarter of it.
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Apr 13, 2013 20:14
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Hey look I found an awful kickstarter Prince Michael Jackson's first album THE MARTYRS So he's a street performer who legally changed his name to Michael Jackson, and he intends to continue the legacy with his fantastic album. Or, as he helpfully explains, "an EP, also known as an “Extended Play” or "Mini-Album"". The video on the project doesn't feature any demos, just a series of written notes and footage of him busking as MJ. He's only 29,970 pounds shy of his goal of 30K with a whole seven minutes remaining! We can do this!
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Apr 13, 2013 20:14
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Can someone explain to me why Kickjacking is bad? Not being snarky, I really don't know much about the situation. I'm hoping to get my Kickstarter up in June and have done a lot of reaserch, but I also value to words of a Goon.
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Apr 13, 2013 20:33
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Rapdawg posted:Can someone explain to me why Kickjacking is bad? Not being snarky, I really don't know much about the situation. I'm hoping to get my Kickstarter up in June and have done a lot of reaserch, but I also value to words of a Goon. well you see, when you're asking for money and people pledge to give it to you, and then you get more money so they actually have to give it to you, but its because you had to raise the funds directly instead of from the crowd, then their confidence is shaken because... Crowdfunding is 98% feels and 2% business. Every kickstarted project has been funded because people are effectively a charity, supporting something they want to exist, rather than investing with an expectation of profit. A bit part of the feels here is that "the crowd" will decide whether or not something exists. So if you start courting specific big-name donators to join the crowd, it ruins the magic. There is no cold robot explanation that makes sense. It is just how people feel about things. There is literally no logical reason to donate to a kickstarter.
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Apr 13, 2013 20:38
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Sigma-X posted:well you see, when you're asking for money and people pledge to give it to you, and then you get more money so they actually have to give it to you, but its because you had to raise the funds directly instead of from the crowd, then their confidence is shaken because... Okay, makes sense. Especially with $20,000 that is like... a major step. If it was like one day before the project and I was down $1,000 and my father then donated the money being a good sport- thats him being a nice guy and not being an investor. Someone who is asking a crowd for money but can secure a $20,000 investment really defeats the purpose of Kickstarter.. people who would never get that money.
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Apr 13, 2013 20:47
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I always understood kickjacking to be either loaning your kickstarter your own money(through some middleman), or getting someone to pledge a large amount with the promise that they would be repaid once the goal was reached. So you end up reaching your goal, but your net income from the kickstarter is much less because you have to pay back your friend/yourself the money used to get to the finish. So you have less money to accomplish all the goals of your kickstarter and meet the obligations to your backers. Its sketchy because it allows people to effectively drop their goal mid-campaign, and collect whatever money has accumulated. It makes campaigns closer to flexible funding which is also bad, especially in projects where they realistically need the full pledge amount, and due to the lack of accounting for where money goes there's not a lot of recourse for backers.
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Apr 13, 2013 21:34
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It also gives a false impression of your ability to pull off the project. Say I asked for £30,000 to create something, my backers would look at that and say "yeah, £30,000" seems right to develop that thing" and hand over the cash. But if I plan to kickjack it at £10,000 I'm only really seeking a third of the budget and being untruthful about the amount I really want to raise. Many of the bad KS's discussed here have wildly under-estimated the amount required and asking for too little is a major red flag.
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Apr 13, 2013 22:03
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There are several reasons to kickjack your project. One, you decide you can follow through on the funding level it's currently at and don't want to start another campaign, so you throw in your own money through a false account or third party. Two, you're close to the goal and figure a goose might bring in more bidders who just want to help push it over the top, like the Pulse project. Three, the whole campaign is a scam and you're just paying yourself to bring the project to the success level to get everybody's money. It's a good thing kicktraq is around to get a better look at the funding. For the sub-$2K projects, the angel investors are likely family members just helping out. Anything above that level and there's some proper shenanigans going on. In the end, it's up to the supporters to decide if a project is viable. KS doesn't really care since they're protected by their TOS. I imagine Amazon Payments can reverse something that's clearly a scam. What really bugs me is IndieGogo's flexible funding bullshit. If someone needs $100K and gets $12K, why should they get that when they needed the goal amount to actually complete the project? I guess in that case it's up to the supporter to pull their funding, but I believe they can't do that in the last 24 hours.
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Apr 14, 2013 00:00
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:Sony Pictures have picked up the rights to ALF and are currently developing a CGI/live action movie. Hooray! I really want to see a continuation of the Showtime series Melmac Nights, that's when ALF really developped as a character: they introduced the illegal narcotic RUFF that people on his home planet were addicted to and we got to see ALF break out the soulbreaker, which is maybe the most badass gun in television history. It really evened the playing field for his character in the biolords sagas, but I think if they do a reboot of the franchise, they don't need to bring the biolords back - I think they concluded and fully explored the vein of biolords stories after the droid incident on the moon and it would look like pandering to bring them back into the mix.
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Apr 14, 2013 00:43
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Just like The Smurfs and The Chipmunks! Oh. 
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:Sony Pictures have picked up the rights to ALF and are currently developing a CGI/live action movie. Hooray! I bet he won't even eat a cat in that movie. pathetic little tramp posted:I really want to see a continuation of the Showtime series Melmac Nights, that's when ALF really developped as a character: they introduced the illegal narcotic RUFF that people on his home planet were addicted to and we got to see ALF break out the soulbreaker, which is maybe the most badass gun in television history. Goddamn, I wish this was true.
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Apr 14, 2013 00:51
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DoctorTristan posted:My personal fantasy is that JMS will kickstart an HD release of Babylon 5 with CGI that doesn't look like utter poo poo. A man can dream I suppose... This 100%. I love that show so much and it really deserves a proper HD release. The CGI wouldn't be too terrible, as they reused shots all the drat time.
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Apr 14, 2013 00:52
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http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/zeiteco/zeit-eco-one-of-a-kind-multifunctional-electric-sc?ref=category Now someone else has gotten the idea that a box with wheels is the ideal form for an electric scooter.
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Apr 14, 2013 03:59
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Cockmaster posted:http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/zeiteco/zeit-eco-one-of-a-kind-multifunctional-electric-sc?ref=category Am I crazy or is this the second square scooter kickstarter I've seen so far?
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Apr 14, 2013 07:13
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They need someplace to store their giant tic-tacs, evidently.
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Apr 14, 2013 07:19
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Humboldt squid posted:Am I crazy or is this the second square scooter kickstarter I've seen so far? You're not crazy at all and rather than accept that two separate groups of people can have this incredibly bad idea I'm assuming these are the same people with a new company name not learning their mistakes.
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Apr 14, 2013 07:48
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Humboldt squid posted:Am I crazy or is this the second square scooter kickstarter I've seen so far? The other one was the BOXX and the discussion about it in the previous KS thread starts here. Comparisons: BOXX  Project goal: $750,000 Minimum pledge for a scooter: $3,895 Max speed: 35mph Battery range: 40 miles per charge (80 miles with upgrade) Zeit Eco  Project goal: $250,000 Minimum pledge for a scooter: $1,700 Max speed: 15 mph limited Battery range: 16 to 25 miles per charge (75 miles with upgrade) Edit: the project has been live for 2 weeks and has only raised $71. The Kicktraq record of pledges shows that someone actually ordered a scooter and then changed their mind:  Snowglobe of Doom has a new favorite as of 08:50 on Apr 14, 2013 |
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Apr 14, 2013 08:44
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So not only did they invent the market for square-shaped scooters, but they've also progressed far enough to have a 'hybrid' design? This is the best automotive industry branch. 
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Apr 14, 2013 13:15
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Cockmaster posted:http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/zeiteco/zeit-eco-one-of-a-kind-multifunctional-electric-sc?ref=category I love that the thumbnail is their eco friendly scooter in the trunk of a van.
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Apr 14, 2013 15:20
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I actually thought the BOXX looked kind of cool. Certainly sturdier than the ZeitEco, which understandably has them saying "Not a Toy!" because it looks exactly like one. It looks like the kind of lovely toy "cyberbikes" you might have gotten with a GI Joe in 1989 or something.
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Apr 14, 2013 15:27
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Rapdawg posted:Can someone explain to me why Kickjacking is bad? Not being snarky, I really don't know much about the situation. I'm hoping to get my Kickstarter up in June and have done a lot of reaserch, but I also value to words of a Goon. It's not. If someone contributes to get the project funded, who cares if it's one big donation or an influx of money by the developers?
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Apr 14, 2013 16:06
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Verdugo posted:It's not. If someone contributes to get the project funded, who cares if it's one big donation or an influx of money by the developers? You're assuming the guys receiving 80% of the amount they wanted are going to actually throw in the extra 20% they pledged in order to meet their goal, rather than just try to get by with what they received from everyone else.
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Apr 14, 2013 16:15
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Rapdawg posted:Can someone explain to me why Kickjacking is bad? That's not how the Free Market is supposed to work. 
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Apr 14, 2013 16:27
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batphantom posted:I know I've been crowing on and on about kickjacking For some reason I hate this term... It just seems so silly to be concerned about people investing tons of money into a kickstarter to make it succeed. They are going against kickstarter rules or something? Or are they sticking it to the man?
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Apr 14, 2013 17:00
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Exmond posted:For some reason I hate this term... It just seems so silly to be concerned about people investing tons of money into a kickstarter to make it succeed. They are going against kickstarter rules or something? Or are they sticking it to the man? If I say I need £10,000 to make a project work, then that should be the BARE MINIMUM I need to get it off the ground. All my pledgers assume that I am only going to go ahead with the project if I get £10,000, and not go ahead with it if I fail, and pledge on that assumption. If I then get £6,000 and I then "kickjack" it the last £4,000, I have only actually raised £6,000, because the £4,000 is not from pledgers, but from people who probably expect to get it back, (maybe immediately after the kickstarter ends, maybe later) so it might not be properly available to the project, if it is at all. It's not fair to the real pledgers to embark on a project that they thought you would be spending £10,000 on with barely half that. And if you only actually NEEDED £6,000 in the first place, why did you say you needed more?
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Apr 14, 2013 17:26
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Exmond posted:For some reason I hate this term... It just seems so silly to be concerned about people investing tons of money into a kickstarter to make it succeed. They are going against kickstarter rules or something? Or are they sticking it to the man?
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Apr 14, 2013 17:47
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Fatkraken posted:It's not fair to the real pledgers to embark on a project that they thought you would be spending £10,000 on with barely half that. And if you only actually NEEDED £6,000 in the first place, why did you say you needed more? Anyone with a half a brain would try to get way more than the minimum needed for a project, in order to buffer against potential cost overruns. In the projects you see where the goal was reached "naturally", the project was probably actually overfunded as well.
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Apr 14, 2013 18:06
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an actual frog has a new favorite as of 22:17 on Jun 24, 2020 |
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Apr 14, 2013 18:23
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:I actually thought the BOXX looked kind of cool. Certainly sturdier than the ZeitEco, which understandably has them saying "Not a Toy!" because it looks exactly like one. It looks like the kind of lovely toy "cyberbikes" you might have gotten with a GI Joe in 1989 or something. It looks like someone bought a dinky scooter and then got creative with the box it came in.
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Apr 14, 2013 23:37
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Bobbin Threadbare posted:It looks like someone bought a dinky scooter and then got creative with the box it came in. Hey, c'mon man, it wasn't like that. It was the box their TV came in. 
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Apr 15, 2013 10:39
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:Hey, c'mon man, it wasn't like that. So, function followed form?
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Apr 15, 2013 16:36
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:Hey, c'mon man, it wasn't like that. Not going to lie, pretty neat seeing how it went from the that to the final product. Still not going to pay an arm and a leg for that dinky PoS.
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Apr 15, 2013 17:08
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So much of both of the casings of the box scooters seems so completely unnecessary. I understand they'll no doubt make it easy to take off for repairs and such, and while you may want a nice box shape for storage, the case itself is pretty overwhelming. Scooters already exist, you can make them thin and compact without having to cover 90% of the scooter in molded plastic. It just adds weight for no valuable reason I can think of. Maybe if there was a hood as well, so you could ride it in the rain, it would make up for its design, but as it is now, the casing just seems to exist to make it look unlike stuff that already exists. Also surrounding the front and/or back wheels with casing is a terrible mistake. Tires will lift stuff into them; you want a clear path for anything that gets lifted by the tires as they make their rotation. I know when you're going 15mph not a lot of stuff is going to get sucked in, but it's still creating something that can jam a tire, and partially solved by not having 3/4s of the tire concealed under the case. Madcosby has a new favorite as of 17:30 on Apr 15, 2013 |
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Apr 15, 2013 17:22
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Did anyone else think for a second that scooter had a saxophone for handlebars? Because I would buy a scooter with a sax-o-tiller.
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Apr 15, 2013 19:44
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Axeman Jim posted:Did anyone else think for a second that scooter had a saxophone for handlebars? Because I would buy a scooter with a sax-o-tiller. Why stop there? Add some other instruments (tambourine hubcaps?) and you've got a one-man-band on wheels!
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Apr 15, 2013 19:48
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Madcosby posted:So much of both of the casings of the box scooters seems so completely unnecessary. I understand they'll no doubt make it easy to take off for repairs and such, and while you may want a nice box shape for storage, the case itself is pretty overwhelming. Scooters already exist, you can make them thin and compact without having to cover 90% of the scooter in molded plastic. It just adds weight for no valuable reason I can think of. Maybe if there was a hood as well, so you could ride it in the rain, it would make up for its design, but as it is now, the casing just seems to exist to make it look unlike stuff that already exists. What the hell are you talking about? Normal scooters, by and large, are also covered in molded plastic. It's just usually in the shape of a scooter. Yeah, in some of the better scooters it's actually metal but it's function is the same. Covering the internal bits and cosmetics are plenty enough of a reason to have it. I mean poo poo, vehicles have designs and even your car has a ton of unnecessary poo poo on it just to fit an aesthetic, and there's nothing wrong with that. There are tons of reasons to be against these box scooters, the fact that they look like a thing when they don't really need to is kind of dumb.
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Apr 15, 2013 19:50
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BoutrosBoutros posted:What the hell are you talking about? Normal scooters, by and large, are also covered in molded plastic. It's just usually in the shape of a scooter. Yeah, in some of the better scooters it's actually metal but it's function is the same. Covering the internal bits and cosmetics are plenty enough of a reason to have it. I mean poo poo, vehicles have designs and even your car has a ton of unnecessary poo poo on it just to fit an aesthetic, and there's nothing wrong with that. There are tons of reasons to be against these box scooters, the fact that they look like a thing when they don't really need to is kind of dumb. I meant that the case covers more than seems necessary. I made a crappy mock-up in Paint (assuming the engine is under the seat) of what I meant and now it looks just like every other scooter  edit: my major point was that the box shape does not offer any sort of functionality. It just serves to make it look like a different product than the dozen or so electric scooters that are already in existence. Madcosby has a new favorite as of 20:24 on Apr 15, 2013 |
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Apr 15, 2013 20:14
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Madcosby posted:I meant that the case covers more than seems necessary. I made a crappy mock-up in Paint (assuming the engine is under the seat) of what I meant and now it looks just like every other scooter Oh ok, that's pretty reasonable, but it's hard to say without seeing the actual internals. This scooter is significantly narrower than a normal one, so it's quite possible the void in the middle actually has poo poo in it. Off the top of my head I might guess that's where the gas tank is. It's normally right beneath the seat, but that might be too tight a fit in this case.
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Apr 15, 2013 20:25
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The Boxx is all electric, which almost by default means that the motor (motors in this case) are (in) the wheel hubs. It also means you need to cover up a shitload of batteries and electronics.Madcosby posted:edit: my major point was that the box shape does not offer any sort of functionality. It just serves to make it look like a different product than the dozen or so electric scooters that are already in existence. Flipperwaldt has a new favorite as of 20:38 on Apr 15, 2013 |
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Apr 15, 2013 20:35
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BoutrosBoutros posted:Oh ok, that's pretty reasonable, but it's hard to say without seeing the actual internals. This scooter is significantly narrower than a normal one, so it's quite possible the void in the middle actually has poo poo in it. Off the top of my head I might guess that's where the gas tank is. It's normally right beneath the seat, but that might be too tight a fit in this case.  You couldn't trim anything from the middle, but there was enough room to jam another generic Vespa battery under the seat and still trim a large amount of the case down in the front and back. The ZEIT looks identical except for likely using a more orthogonal frame to allow the hollow portion in the middle to double as a storage area. Blade_of_tyshalle posted:I actually thought the BOXX looked kind of cool. Certainly sturdier than the ZeitEco, which understandably has them saying "Not a Toy!" because it looks exactly like one. It looks like the kind of lovely toy "cyberbikes" you might have gotten with a GI Joe in 1989 or something.
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Apr 15, 2013 21:28
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Hey hey hey was there a terrorist attack today? Time for an Indiegogo Scumbag Roundup! Worthless scumbag number 1: http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/boston-marathon-blast-support Worthless scumbag number 2: http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/help-the-man-who-lost-his-legs-in-shocking-photo-from-boston-marathon-bombing Indiegogo posted:Imagine, if we find this man, and he's alive. Perhaps he's going to spend the next few months worrying about how he's going to pay medical bills. Or maybe he is the bread-winner for his family, and he obviously will be missing work. Maybe he's worried about how the bills will get paid. Or perhaps he's a college student, who was barely making ends meet as it is. I'm sure he's going to be devasted by his injuries. But what if he finds out, that some woman in San Diego saw his photo, and it broke her heart. Yeah hey guys what if someone finds him? I bet he's really hard to find with the massive bleeding leg and the fact that he's certainly in hospital now. On a day like today, let me just give a hearty gently caress you to these sort of people and may they accidentally eat feces somehow in the next few months and notice it but only after they've swallowed a little bit first.
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Apr 16, 2013 00:36
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