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That's quite far off the point I made originally. You don't buy a corolla or geo metro expecting to win races (although some forums users have done just that). You don't really need a tach to tell you to shift early and save some gas which is their point. Someone else made a good point that you can put a speedometer and fuel gauge only in a dash and I'd wager most people would get along just fine with one big "gently caress! SOMETHING IS WRONG!" button / warning light. I would also argue that it is unfair to classify that behavior as "driving it wrong" as that's exactly how those cars are intended to drive. There's not some hidden spike of power at 6k RPM's that you're secretly tapping by redlining it because it wasn't designed like that. You're just giving it more gas than a normal fuel conscious consumer would.
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Apr 15, 2013 21:53
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Fair point, I suppose. If you're bothered, you just learn to equate the speedo reading to a shift point for each gear anyway. gently caress idiot lights for temperature, though. It's an area where you can lunch an engine quite easily if you don't know you're overheating, and idiot lights never seem to come on until it's too late.
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Apr 15, 2013 22:13
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JP Money posted:I would also argue that it is unfair to classify that behavior as "driving it wrong" as that's exactly how those cars are intended to drive. There's not some hidden spike of power at 6k RPM's that you're secretly tapping by redlining it because it wasn't designed like that. You're just giving it more gas than a normal fuel conscious consumer would. No, it's absolutely "driving it right" for the purpose the car was made for. But a lot of the time when someone complains that their car is too slow to keep up with traffic, they're short-shifting it because engine noise is scary. Hell, taking just about any car to the redline in a couple of gears on an onramp once in a while will be good for it. Short-shifting has killed a lot more engines than redlining, it's just insidious in that the damage happens slowly over time compared to the usually catastrophic failures you get because of overrevving. Soot accumulates slowly until the engine simply cannot breathe properly anymore or you get stuck valves or what have you. An acquaintance of mine basically never ever takes his car outside the city and he does mostly short trips in it. Surprise surprise, he was having engine issues. His hack-job mechanic told him to fix it by running higher-octane gasoline. My guess is that carbon deposits in the engine hosed the compression ratio to where it would run like poo poo on normal gas. I told him flat out that a good old Italian tuneup would cure most of the problems, but he insisted on trusting his mechanic. Not my car, I don't care.
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Apr 15, 2013 22:29
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Someone losing the rear on an S2000? Colour me shocked.
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Apr 15, 2013 22:52
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InitialDave posted:There's drive it like you stole it, then there's drive it like an Italian. Well, seeing as how there are people here in AI who genuinely believe that a car with only 100 hp is dangerously slow and incapable of keeping up with the speeds of modern traffic, I'd say even some "enthusiasts" need to learn about using all of the tach.
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Apr 16, 2013 00:25
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InitialDave posted:Fair point, I suppose. If you're bothered, you just learn to equate the speedo reading to a shift point for each gear anyway. Except most of those temperature "gauges" ar nothing more than 3-position idiot lights: cold, somewhere between almost warm to nearly melting, and "too loving late". I've seen very few non-enthusiast cars with real gauges and I've been told this is because seeing gauges that aren't always in the same place and/or aren't dampened to uselessness causes the average driver to freak out. And this is why we can't have nice things.
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Apr 16, 2013 01:59
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Standard oil pressure gauges have delayed and smoothed readings as most people freak out at seeing the pressure going up and down. So yeah stupid people is why we get poo poo gauges and have to replace them with decent ones.
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Apr 16, 2013 02:03
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Makes me glad I only own old crap that mostly has real live gauges and actual number scales to go with them.
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Apr 16, 2013 02:32
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So I can no longer buy the speedometer cable for my 1986 Audi 4k Quattro 
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Apr 16, 2013 02:35
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CommieGIR posted:So I can no longer buy the speedometer cable for my 1986 Audi 4k Quattro http://www.speedometersolutions.com/speedometer_cable.htm Never done business with them, but found their site while researching to build a vehicle speed sensor signal converter board.
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Apr 16, 2013 02:37
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Motronic posted:Except most of those temperature "gauges" ar nothing more than 3-position idiot lights: cold, somewhere between almost warm to nearly melting, and "too loving late".  about it, but I don't think I've encountered it with temperature gauges before. Which cars have you found are like this?
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Apr 16, 2013 06:14
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I know you asked Motronic, but I can attest to this being the case with Fords, Volvos and Peugeots since at least as far back as 2005. Reading via OBD, on Fords and Volvos on the C1 platform, the temp gauge is kept at the exact same spot (straight up) between 62 and 94 degrees celcius.
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Apr 16, 2013 06:21
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InitialDave posted:I know they do this with oil pressure gauges a lot, to avoid people going Late model Ford Mustangs for sure (I have a 2011 and the temp needle never moves from a certain fixed point just below the middle). My 2004 GTO also had a similarly neutered temp gauge that would read "normal" over a huge temperature range. The last car I owned that seemed to have "real" oil press & temp gauges was a 1995 Camaro Z28.
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Apr 16, 2013 06:27
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PainterofCrap posted:While I cannot guarantee that I would have kept my head throughout an ordeal like that, it is why I carry one of these in my car: Your accelerator pedal and brake pedal seem almost comically huge compared to most modern cars. Or is that an optical illusion?
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Apr 16, 2013 06:32
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TERRIBLE CAR STUFF IN THIS THREAD.
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Apr 16, 2013 06:39
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Number_6 posted:Your accelerator pedal and brake pedal seem almost comically huge compared to most modern cars. Or is that an optical illusion? Normal-ish automatic brake pedal. And a normal floor hinged gas pedal.
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Apr 16, 2013 06:42
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Nidhg00670000 posted:I know you asked Motronic, but I can attest to this being the case with Fords, Volvos and Peugeots since at least as far back as 2005. Reading via OBD, on Fords and Volvos on the C1 platform, the temp gauge is kept at the exact same spot (straight up) between 62 and 94 degrees celcius. Number_6 posted:Late model Ford Mustangs for sure (I have a 2011 and the temp needle never moves from a certain fixed point just below the middle). My 2004 GTO also had a similarly neutered temp gauge that would read "normal" over a huge temperature range.
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Apr 16, 2013 06:48
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CommieGIR posted:So I can no longer buy the speedometer cable for my 1986 Audi 4k Quattro
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Apr 16, 2013 06:50
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My 2000 TJ, the last time I had a working bluetooth OBDII adapter, appeared to have a working non-idiot temperature gauge, and a slightly buffered oil pressure gauge. Not all vehicles are dumbed-down yet.
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Apr 16, 2013 07:17
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Motronic posted:Except most of those temperature "gauges" ar nothing more than 3-position idiot lights: cold, somewhere between almost warm to nearly melting, and "too loving late". To be fair, on most cars all you need out of your temp gauge is "cold", "thermostat operating", and "crank the heater to max and roll down the windows".
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Apr 16, 2013 08:01
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InitialDave posted:I know they do this with oil pressure gauges a lot, to avoid people going Mazda, including the Miata.
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Apr 16, 2013 08:09
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EVERY car does this for the past bazillion years. If you think yours doesn't, you're wrong. Big deal. Have a classic.
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Apr 16, 2013 08:43
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InitialDave posted:I know they do this with oil pressure gauges a lot, to avoid people going Pretty much everything. It's easiest to tell on things with OBD2 since it so easy to read live ECT data. I really can't think of anything past higher end sports cars that I've seen a real temp or oil gauge on since the 80s at least. Sure, some of the move more than others, but the big commonality is a huge dead spot in the middle. On my '97 F150 it was in the middle from about 160 until who knows what.....but I was running hot at one point due to a stuck thermostat so I know it was at least until 220F. No change. Discoveries are the same, and I can confirm that my '02 is in the middle from 160 or so until 230. two-loving-thirty. That's insane. And basically everything else I've worked on in the last decade or more that's Ive had occasion to pay attention to temps on has been a similar story. Linedance posted:To be fair, on most cars all you need out of your temp gauge is "cold", "thermostat operating", and "crank the heater to max and roll down the windows". Sorry, but that's all your average uneducated driver needs. If you know enough to interpret the data you can often catch smaller problems before they become larger ones. Learning how to interpret that data doesn't require a deep knowledge of mechanics, just a bit of information and the data (which doesn't exist in most cars). Vehicles are being turned into disposable appliances and this is yet another indication of that.
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Apr 16, 2013 15:02
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Linedance posted:To be fair, on most cars all you need out of your temp gauge is "cold", "thermostat operating", and "crank the heater to max and roll down the windows". The temp gauge on my 04 GLI seemed to be a real gauge, as it warned me there was a problem when the waterpump poo poo the bed. It actually went above "normal" and rose for a solid 5 minutes before the MFI shouted "STOP THE loving CAR RIGHT NOW!"
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Apr 16, 2013 15:03
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This lazy jerk was about the fastest person out there. His taillights were like red snow on one side and a tiny speck of red on the other.
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Apr 16, 2013 15:16
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StormDrain posted:This lazy jerk was about the fastest person out there. His taillights were like red snow on one side and a tiny speck of red on the other. Once I saw a cop had a lady pulled over, and was standing there as she cleaned off her SUV. Only once I saw this.
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Apr 16, 2013 15:19
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Motronic posted:Pretty much everything. It's easiest to tell on things with OBD2 since it so easy to read live ECT data.
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Apr 16, 2013 15:25
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FogHelmut posted:Once I saw a cop had a lady pulled over, and was standing there as she cleaned off her SUV. Only once I saw this. A friend of mine had his windshield and sunroof smashed by an airborne piece of ice that came off the back of an SUV, but even before that, I've always had a severe hatred for anyone who takes to the road with only a little tank commander window of visibility and a couple hundred pounds of unsecured debris covering their vehicle. Thankfully, the cops here feel the same way, and *LOVE* grab anybody piloting an igloo towards the main highway. If I see someone about to pull out of a parking lot with a ton of snow on their car, I'll offer them my snow brush and say "You missed a spot". Most people will take the five minutes to clean their poo poo off, but some people have this "I didn't make this snow, it's not my problem" mentality and just refuse. Suppose I could be "that guy" and start Snow Shaming the local tank commanders in a facebook page or something.
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Apr 16, 2013 15:36
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InitialDave posted:Hmm, maybe I've just not recognised it then. The oil pressure gauge on my WJ is definitely faking it, but the temperature gauge certainly seems to behave like it's a real one. Even the ones that appear to act like a real one seem to be heavily weighted and dampened in the center. Throw it on a scanner cold and watch it warm up. I'm sure you'll have a whole new level of mistrust for it. That's why I have one of these:  (UltraGauge) or a ScanGauge II in all of my OBD2 stuff.
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Apr 16, 2013 15:40
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I worked on an early 2000s Kia Sportage of all things that had a real oil pressure gauge. That was one thing he had us checking on, he was worried because the oil pressure was acting like a tachometer. I took it for a test drive and confirmed that yes, his oil pressure raised when it accelerated.
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Apr 16, 2013 15:58
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bisticles posted:A friend of mine had his windshield and sunroof smashed by an airborne piece of ice that came off the back of an SUV, but even before that, I've always had a severe hatred for anyone who takes to the road with only a little tank commander window of visibility and a couple hundred pounds of unsecured debris covering their vehicle. Thankfully, the cops here feel the same way, and *LOVE* grab anybody piloting an igloo towards the main highway. I'll admit to this last night. But then again it was after 13 hours at work and a solid 8 inches of snow. I did at least clear all the windows and lights, but since I have lost my brush since I bought the new car and was the last person left at the office, I had no way of clearing the roof. Good news is that I think my top speed was somewhere around 35 the entire drive home because even though everyone knew this storm was coming, there were no plows and no road prep so the entire road was a loving iceblock. As I was getting onto the freeway some stupid fucker was going too fast and went head first into the concrete barrier about 100 feet in front of me. Always nice to set the tone of the drive home.
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Apr 16, 2013 16:02
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Nocheez posted:I worked on an early 2000s Kia Sportage of all things that had a real oil pressure gauge. That was one thing he had us checking on, he was worried because the oil pressure was acting like a tachometer. I took it for a test drive and confirmed that yes, his oil pressure raised when it accelerated. And this is exactly why manufacturers have turned these gauges into glorified idiot lights.
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Apr 16, 2013 16:24
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I saw an Opel Corsa with Virginia plates the other day (took a picture if anyone's interested, but it's an Opel Corsa, nothing actually interesting). Did we get that as a Saturn or something and I forgot? There's also a Renault Twingo I see parked on occasion also with VA plates. I suppose they could be diplomats being as I'm just outside DC, but they usually get Diplomat plates, not local ones.
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Apr 16, 2013 16:33
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I'm just now getting around to uploading my pics from the Lone Star Round-Up. Most of the cars were pretty cool traditional hot rods, thank god the rat-rod trend seems to have run it's course. However with close to two thousand cars there were bound to be some that deserve to be in this thread. First was this guy that totally missed the point of traditional pre 64 hot rods. I think he was going for more of an early 90s mini truck look.  Trapper Keeper graphics.  Not one bit of what made the 56 Chevy interior cool remains.  Not nearly as bad but still stuck in the 80s.   You put WHAT on your rat rod?   I REALLY hate fake patinas, especially when they look like nothing that would ever happen in nature.   Hey look, a rat rod Volvo. Well that's certainly something...    Then there was this...   This last one had a pretty impressive pedigree. However that doesn't mean it doesn't belong in this thread.   
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Apr 16, 2013 16:41
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Nidhg00670000 posted:Well, seeing as how there are people here in AI who genuinely believe that a car with only 100 hp is dangerously slow and incapable of keeping up with the speeds of modern traffic, I'd say even some "enthusiasts" need to learn about using all of the tach. Just two days ago I was thinking about making a "dangerously slow" video in response to this train of thought. Using my 3,200lb, 67hp 240d in a normal commute to work I think I can show how you really don't need any more power than it has. I'm afraid it would be terminally boring though.
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Apr 16, 2013 17:04
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trouser chili posted:Just two days ago I was thinking about making a "dangerously slow" video in response to this train of thought. Using my 3,200lb, 67hp 240d in a normal commute to work I think I can show how you really don't need any more power than it has. I'm afraid it would be terminally boring though. 48 lbs/hp  That's not much better than a kid's scooter. And you take it on the highway? You're a braver man than I. I'll also note that you can probably manage it because you're willing to flog it mercilessly. Most people are scared to use more than about 30% throttle, and in their hands, sub-100hp cars are indeed dangerously slow.
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Apr 16, 2013 17:27
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trouser chili posted:Just two days ago I was thinking about making a "dangerously slow" video in response to this train of thought. Using my 3,200lb, 67hp 240d in a normal commute to work I think I can show how you really don't need any more power than it has. I'm afraid it would be terminally boring though. Its a diesel dude, punch the throttle up. If you don't thrash that motor the piston rings will get carbon build up.
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Apr 16, 2013 17:33
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CommieGIR posted:Its a diesel dude, punch the throttle up. If you don't thrash that motor the piston rings will get carbon build up. No throttle, it's a diesel, but I do use the accelerator pedal like binary switch. It's basically like "I'd like to go faster now if you could consider doing that just whenever convenient for you that would be great" and "That'll do, pig."
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Apr 16, 2013 17:46
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trouser chili posted:No throttle, it's a diesel, but I do use the accelerator pedal like binary switch. It's basically like "I'd like to go faster now if you could consider doing that just whenever convenient for you that would be great" and "That'll do, pig." Time to turbocharge.
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Apr 16, 2013 17:48
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CommieGIR posted:Time to turbocharge. Visions of motorswaps dance in my head. The effort required to turbo the naturally-aspirated OM616 four-banger isn't really worth it when a turbocharged OM617 five-pot is basically a bolt-in affair. This may come to fruition in the coming years. I have to move the Scout out first and I'm procrastinating on the whole "selling it" thing because I'm stupid. The OM617 would bring me to roughly 120hp in stock trim, and they take to some modifications pretty well considering the tech (mechanical indirect-injection). Thing is though, the car gets me where I'm going just fine, it's quite slow but I'm not in a hurry. I also enjoy the challenge. trouser chili fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Apr 16, 2013 |
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Apr 16, 2013 17:52
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