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The breakdown of reality and consensus seen in JFK conspiracies and Truthers protects the ruling class from scrutiny and fuels media spectacle. It is grimly fascinating to see the last embers of enlightenment democracy and the American Experiment get doused this way.
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Apr 16, 2013 18:40
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PeterWeller posted:People want to bomb us because our government bombs them, not because some shocked and scared victims of an attack engaged in some foolish stereotyping. We bomb them because of a pervasive otherizing founded on racism and nationalism that allows the average American citizen to view it as murdering "the enemy" and not actual human beings, which is the same mindset that causes people to state things like a man with dark skin in a place he should not be must be a non-citizen (odd how that applies to both the main bombing suspect and the president) and surely some good white American saw him acting suspicious but did nothing because of POLITICAL CORRECTNESS and not because of apathy or selfish disregard. So yeah, technically you're right, but those actions and their justifications all come from the same ugly place.
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Apr 16, 2013 19:09
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I hope it doesn't turn out that a Saudi is behind the Boston bombing. I'd hate to have to go back into Iraq again.
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Apr 16, 2013 19:11
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BiggerBoat posted:I hope it doesn't turn out that a Saudi is behind the Boston bombing. I'd hate to have to go back into Iraq again. Don't sweat it, the odds of the same country coming up twice in a row on the DoD's randomizer is really low. ~*Wheel of imperialism turn turn turn, tell us the country that we should burn*~
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Apr 16, 2013 19:13
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BiggerBoat posted:I hope it doesn't turn out that a Saudi is behind the Boston bombing. I'd hate to have to go back into Iraq again. I would say the chance of it being a Saudi is diminishing quickly.
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Apr 16, 2013 19:15
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BiggerBoat posted:I hope it doesn't turn out that a Saudi is behind the Boston bombing. I'd hate to have to go back into Iraq again. EDIT: Beat by A Winner is Jew
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Apr 16, 2013 19:16
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Everyone should be investing in Halliburton because if North Korea gets any hotter we're going to have to invade Mongolia.
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Apr 16, 2013 19:16
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Intel&Sebastian posted:Everyone should be investing in Halliburton because if North Korea gets any hotter we're going to have to invade Mongolia. I ain't going to gently caress with no Mongolians. We'd get our asses kicked and then they'd come over here and conquer the poo poo out of us.
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Apr 16, 2013 19:31
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Intel&Sebastian posted:Everyone should be investing in Halliburton because if North Korea gets any hotter we're going to have to invade Mongolia. I'm pretty sure the Boston attack has them scared shitless that we might actually run with this whole invasion thing. Bombs go off in Boston, we arrest a Saudi for simply being there, and invade North Korea.
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Apr 16, 2013 19:35
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From what I have heard of Rush today he seems to be working pretty hard for the NRA. Obama is using the Boston tragedy to leverage support for gun regulations blah blah blah. Also I heard some stuff about Bill Ayers and bombs.
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Apr 16, 2013 19:40
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Limbaugh was pretty awful today. He spent most of his opening segment berating the media for trying to tie the Boston bombing to the right-wing while throwing out the 'how Bill Ayers and his wife got started in domestic terrorism' meat to his listeners. Then he had a caller come on and smugly state that he was afraid for his upcoming marathon run and would like the government to start regulating ball bearings and pressure cookers. After a commercial break he asked Snerdley to check the premises for pressure cookers, then claimed he had multiple e-mails from listeners that found pressure cookers around where they were. Then he launched into a final tirade about how leftists were totally cool with 9/11 because most people working at the WTC were from Wall Street, which the left views as not people because corporations are not people  There is no gently caress you big enough for this guy. Even in the face of a national tragedy he doesn't miss a beat, the hate flows unperturbed. I find it somewhat comforting that he is losing sponsors due to his constant bullshit, but how any company can be associated with this guy is just beyond my comprehension 
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Apr 16, 2013 19:45
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McDowell posted:The breakdown of reality and consensus seen in JFK conspiracies and Truthers protects the ruling class from scrutiny and fuels media spectacle. It is grimly fascinating to see the last embers of enlightenment democracy and the American Experiment get doused this way. How so? The media looking into even the most unusual conspiracy can promote transparency and skeptecism. Do you mean the distraction of ordinary people disagreeing?
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Apr 16, 2013 19:49
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Zeroisanumber posted:I ain't going to gently caress with no Mongolians. We'd get our asses kicked and then they'd come over here and conquer the poo poo out of us. Maybe the conservatives would finally get the giant border fence they've always wanted, though
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Apr 16, 2013 20:00
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Good Citizen posted:Maybe the conservatives would finally get the giant border fence they've always wanted, though Wouldn't the Mongolians just tear down that city wall though?
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Apr 16, 2013 20:10
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William Bear posted:How so? The media looking into even the most unusual conspiracy can promote transparency and skeptecism. You have people like Alex Jones just making any crazy connection that comes to mind to attract viewers, while the establishment media doesn't make any connections and just presents official statements in an engaging way. In the long term the layman associates any kind of dissent or troubling connections as fringe nonsense and/or you have individuals all believing in their own connections/theories, making it impossible for them to organize and challenge entrenched interests. An establishment debunking of a conspiracy claim will just be perceived as an attack by true believers while training the average person to reject any unofficial narrative. It makes consensus and democratic change impossible. Today it would be fantastically easy to dismiss Woodward and Bernstein as conspiracy theorists and deny them mainstream coverage. Looking back, Watergate was the beginning of an anti-elite tone in the media that today implys that if there is collusion or common interests among the powerful everyone would know about it and something would be done.
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Apr 16, 2013 20:50
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I turned on Limbaugh long enough to hear him say "We know the Democrats were responsible for 9/11, so we know we can hold them responsible for..." and then I turned it off because holy mackerel. I've been listening to him lately and I've been starting to think he's generally less vile then a lot of people make him sound but that was pretty bad.
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Apr 16, 2013 20:58
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Seoinin posted:~*Wheel of imperialism turn turn turn, tell us the country that we should burn*~  I swear I've heard this in a cartoon before but I can't remember the exact cartoon.
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Apr 16, 2013 22:17
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Azuth0667 posted:
Probably not that exact phrasing, but I learned a lot about morality from the Warner Brothers and their sister, Dot. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvJGDxVFp5Q
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Apr 16, 2013 22:23
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kik2dagroin posted:Limbaugh was pretty awful today. He spent most of his opening segment berating the media for trying to tie the Boston bombing to the right-wing while throwing out the 'how Bill Ayers and his wife got started in domestic terrorism' meat to his listeners. Then he had a caller come on and smugly state that he was afraid for his upcoming marathon run and would like the government to start regulating ball bearings and pressure cookers. After a commercial break he asked Snerdley to check the premises for pressure cookers, then claimed he had multiple e-mails from listeners that found pressure cookers around where they were. Then he launched into a final tirade about how leftists were totally cool with 9/11 because most people working at the WTC were from Wall Street, which the left views as not people because corporations are not people
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Apr 16, 2013 22:54
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Fox News keeping us scared. Photo used could be seen by viewers as a white man telling a black man what to do.
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Apr 16, 2013 23:07
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mr. mephistopheles posted:We bomb them because of a pervasive otherizing founded on racism and nationalism that allows the average American citizen to view it as murdering "the enemy" and not actual human beings, which is the same mindset that causes people to state things like a man with dark skin in a place he should not be must be a non-citizen (odd how that applies to both the main bombing suspect and the president) and surely some good white American saw him acting suspicious but did nothing because of POLITICAL CORRECTNESS and not because of apathy or selfish disregard. We bomb them to maintain and demonstrate our hegemony. The systematic otherization is what we do to feel okay about bombing them. Otherwise, I agree completely. However, I don't think it's right to get upset with the victims of an attack for behaving the way they have been conditioned to behave.
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Apr 16, 2013 23:14
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Guilty Spork posted:Were they actually trying to tie the bombing to right-wingers? We do have the thing where conservative pundits ignore reality and vehemently deny that right-wing domestic terrorists exist, but then pinning it on those guys with zero evidence would be kinda dumb. Not as dumb as making poo poo up about the other side being cool with 9/11 because I guess Occupy Wall Street's mirror universe evil twin was able to travel back in time though. Most of the counterterrorism experts are saying that it looks like a homegrown, right-wing patriot-style bombing, like Oklahoma City in 1995. There's no direct evidence to tie it, but all of the details fit the profile of a right-wing attack.
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Apr 16, 2013 23:36
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AsInHowe posted:Most of the counterterrorism experts are saying that it looks like a homegrown, right-wing patriot-style bombing, like Oklahoma City in 1995. There's no direct evidence to tie it, but all of the details fit the profile of a right-wing attack. Is it true AQ did not claim 9/11 attack for years? That's why some are saying to be cautious about who to start blaming. Right wing militias and domestic terrorism is a growing issue and and it needs to be tackled, but I'm not so sure this is that. I honestly do not doubt a lone nutter bomber...who was probably not center-left.
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Apr 17, 2013 00:02
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Nonsense posted:Is it true AQ did not claim 9/11 attack for years? I do not think they denied it either, I think they knew from the start everyone would know it was them rightaway Al Qaeda was suspect no. 1 literally the day after
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Apr 17, 2013 00:04
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A DENVER FAX posted:I do not think they denied it either, I think they knew from the start everyone would know it was them rightaway Obviously an old memory here, but I recall an interview with Bin Laden where he very specifically said "we had nothing to do with that" when asked about it. e: trying to find this is giving me a whole lot of truther bullshit and not much substance, but I think I'm talking about the interview that AJ declined to broadcast that CNN got from them and broadcast anyway. The wikipedia section on respobsibility for the 9/11 attacks mentions it and other statements, including some initial denials. eviltastic fucked around with this message at 02:05 on Apr 17, 2013 |
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Apr 17, 2013 01:59
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A DENVER FAX posted:I do not think they denied it either, I think they knew from the start everyone would know it was them rightaway Al Qaeda was suspected because first of all it was their MO. At the time of 9/11 they were among the world's best organized and financed terrorist organizations with cells spread out over the world and franchises in different regions. They'd made an attempt on the WTC in 1993, may have been involved in the 1996 Khobar Towers bombing, conducted a simultaneous truck bombing on the United States embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in 1998, and bombed the USS Cole in Aden, Yemen in 2000. Second, there was a lot of intelligence that pointed to a possible terrorist plot. The problem facing US authorities was that they didn't have enough of the pieces together what was happening. They knew something was in the pipelines, had connections to Bin Laden and Al Qaeda, but no clear picture of the shape it would take or the time it could be expected. This is all just from my recollection from doing research on the subject, and I'm by no means an authoritative source. I do, however, recommend the books The Looming Tower and The Black Banners, by Lawrence Wright and Ali Soufan respectively. Darkman Fanpage fucked around with this message at 05:05 on Apr 17, 2013 |
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Apr 17, 2013 05:02
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Crasscrab posted:Al Qaeda was suspected because first of all it was their MO. At the time of 9/11 they were among the world's best organized and financed terrorist organizations with cells spread out over the world and franchises in different regions. They'd made an attempt on the WTC in 1993, may have been involved in the 1996 Khobar Towers bombing, conducted a simultaneous truck bombing on the United States embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in 1998, and bombed the USS Cole in Aden, Yemen in 2000. Second, there was a lot of intelligence that pointed to a possible terrorist plot. The problem facing US authorities was that they didn't have enough of the pieces together what was happening. They knew something was in the pipelines, had connections to Bin Laden and Al Qaeda, but no clear picture of the shape it would take or the time it could be expected. The Dark Side by Jane Mayer is really good too, the beginning section goes into detail on how a bunch of different mistakes, bad judgment calls and inter-agency BS prevented 9/11 from being foreseen and stopped. The rest of the book is on how evil/incompetent the Bush admin was. Be warned, it will make you incredibly angry.
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Apr 17, 2013 07:04
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gently caress You And Diebold posted:The Dark Side by Jane Mayer is really good too, the beginning section goes into detail on how a bunch of different mistakes, bad judgment calls and inter-agency BS prevented 9/11 from being foreseen and stopped. The rest of the book is on how evil/incompetent the Bush admin was. Be warned, it will make you incredibly angry. The 9/11 Commission Report, despite its flaws, definitely lays out how 9/11 could have been prevented if intelligence had just been shared between the agencies.
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Apr 17, 2013 07:20
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PeterWeller posted:We bomb them to maintain and demonstrate our hegemony. The systematic otherization is what we do to feel okay about bombing them. Otherwise, I agree completely. However, I don't think it's right to get upset with the victims of an attack for behaving the way they have been conditioned to behave. Oh, I agree, I would never fault someone who was injured or close to someone who was injured in the bombing for screaming for blood. It's the dickheads on talk radio that have no stake in the game other than keeping their ratings going by politicizing the poo poo out of everything that I am upset by. I actually had brief moment of respect for Sean Hannity today because he basically said gently caress politics, can't we just mourn the tragedy for a minute? I mean it turned out he was using it to blame Obama for politicizing it so soon, but there was that brief moment where I thought he had a non-reprehensible point.
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Apr 17, 2013 08:43
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Crasscrab posted:Al Qaeda was suspected because first of all it was their MO. At the time of 9/11 they were among the world's best organized and financed terrorist organizations with cells spread out over the world and franchises in different regions. They'd made an attempt on the WTC in 1993, may have been involved in the 1996 Khobar Towers bombing, conducted a simultaneous truck bombing on the United States embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in 1998, and bombed the USS Cole in Aden, Yemen in 2000. Second, there was a lot of intelligence that pointed to a possible terrorist plot. The problem facing US authorities was that they didn't have enough of the pieces together what was happening. They knew something was in the pipelines, had connections to Bin Laden and Al Qaeda, but no clear picture of the shape it would take or the time it could be expected. quote:It's the land of the Future, uh, right. There's only two kinds of people in the world, now. The Morlocks and the Eloi. The Elois they live above ground, they wear togas, they're all blonde and poo poo like that. It's like the Garden of Eden there, I mean everybody just lays around, listens to harp music. The Morlocks they live underground. Big, hairy suckers like you wouldn't wish on an ape. Right, they're down there with all this machinery, they're doing all the labor, they're making sure that the Elois have enough food and togas. Well this is a great deal if you're an Eloi, right? There's only one thing. Every once in a while a Morlock comes up to the surface and snatches an Eloi. Takes him down there. The Morlocks, they don't eat grapes, they're cannibals, they eat Elois. So when I think about, uh, The Time Machine, it kind of reminds me of New York City, you know. See, you're an Eloi. You and all your friends, walking around like zombies with no loving idea of the poo poo going on down below. So does this make me a Morlock? I don't like to think of myself like that, but I guess it does. Every once in a while one of you gets snatched.
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Apr 17, 2013 09:07
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mr. mephistopheles posted:Oh, I agree, I would never fault someone who was injured or close to someone who was injured in the bombing for screaming for blood. It's the dickheads on talk radio that have no stake in the game other than keeping their ratings going by politicizing the poo poo out of everything that I am upset by. I wasn't sure if you were talking about the Boston Marathon or overseas. I guess that makes the "American Taliban" epithet that much creepier.
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Apr 17, 2013 14:07
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Just like Michael Savage warned us yesterday, here comes the patsy for the marathon bombing.  E: I guess I shouldn't be surprised, but Rush is going off on some bald faced racism based on the reports of the suspect being 'dark skinned.' He's acting like liberals are afraid to admit the guy's not white already. TASTE THE PAIN!! fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Apr 17, 2013 |
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Apr 17, 2013 19:08
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Man, "What about Benghazi, Huh?!?!?!" must be the right wing talking point today regarding the Boston bombing. It's all I hear conservatives talking about.
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Apr 17, 2013 19:23
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Limbaugh is latching onto the potential arrest like a dog on a soup bone. He just had to walk back his 'confirmation' of an arrest since all the other major news outlets are doing it too. His reasoning behind this is because the media desperately wants it to be a white guy and are waiting until the last second to confirm it was a brown skinned man because Also he was belittling the fact that arrests do NOT mean guilt. A bombing, a brown skinned man as suspect, Obama wanting to further his gun agenda... Put it together Libs 
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Apr 17, 2013 19:34
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kik2dagroin posted:Limbaugh is latching onto the potential arrest like a dog on a soup bone. He just had to walk back his 'confirmation' of an arrest since all the other major news outlets are doing it too. His reasoning behind this is because the media desperately wants it to be a white guy and are waiting until the last second to confirm it was a brown skinned man because Yeah. Reading the FOX and Yahoo comments about the arrest news is pretty frightening. It's all "hang him high" and "what color is he?" A lot of these comments seem upset that any suspect would even get a fair trial. You know, since fair trials and due process aren't written in the constitution and...
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Apr 17, 2013 19:39
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Fair trials and due process are only enshrined for decent God-fearing Americans, not foreign born terrorist rats. For all the time you guys spend talking about it, you still have a ton of difficulty understanding the conservative mindset. 
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Apr 17, 2013 19:44
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I keep seeing "dark skinned" and those pictures that folks in this thread were fairly certain were UCs along with decided not "dark skinned" people with red circles drawn around them.
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Apr 17, 2013 19:50
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BiggerBoat posted:It's all "hang him high" and "what color is he?" A lot of these comments seem upset that any suspect would even get a fair trial. You know, since fair trials and due process aren't written in the constitution and... Just why aren't they releasing the NAME of this dark skinned, did I mention he isn't white, male? Would the media be doing this if it was a WHITE guy?!?!?! Hmmmmmmmm!??!? Why even arrest him?! We know he is obviously guilty!!
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Apr 17, 2013 20:06
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I'm so loving sick of media assholes saying that 'this is the story the media doesn't want you to hear.' Fox News is the loving media, Rush Limbaugh is the loving media. I think everyone should check out 'Hobo with a Shotgun'; I think it started when the horror of Sandy Hook got mucked up with MY GUNS, but the past couple days there have shown there is no limit now - it's like the Drake and his 'quality entertainment'.
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Apr 18, 2013 00:26
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I briefly turned on Hannity's radio program, and he segued from Boston into a loving ad for emergency food supplies. Whoops! Not making that mistake again.
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Apr 18, 2013 00:37
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