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LightWarden posted:Chuuls aren't outsiders so they're not something you can normally summon using spells. Mezzoloth was mentioned earlier, and Piscoloth is another option. Edit It's a Yugoloth, I bet. Specifically, a Piscoloth. Evil outsider, looks like a crab monster, CR 9. (Fiend Folio pg. 196)
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Apr 10, 2013 19:27
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I have to wonder what it would take to break Malack's thrall over Durkula. Bottoming out his HP and sending him back to his coffin? Actually destroying him? When characters get dominated in this strip, they all seem to be fully aware of what they're being forced to do, and there are no lingering effects once the domination is broken. If Durkon breaks free or is set free, I think he'd still be loyal to the party. He may have gone evil, but that doesn't automatically make him an enemy of the party. That's just not in his personality.
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Apr 10, 2013 21:27
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I can see that. One caveat: he would need to get his hands on the Protection from Daylight spell or their options in just about any situation would be seriously impeded. Save the world, but do it either without your cleric or exclusively indoors and at night.
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Apr 10, 2013 21:39
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Monster-san will be finally revealed when Durkon steals his magical umbrella.
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Apr 10, 2013 21:43
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On the other hand Malack seemed pretty convinced that him being resurrected would 'kill' who he is now. The same may apply to Durkon and he may be a different person.
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Apr 10, 2013 21:44
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IMJack posted:I have to wonder what it would take to break Malack's thrall over Durkula. Bottoming out his HP and sending him back to his coffin? Actually destroying him? The thing is, the bulk of the change isn't because he's dominated. If Malack is to be trusted (Yeah, yeah, I know) Durkula is a completely different person from Durkon. I get the feeling that this being-made-a-vampire thing is comparable to Malack having a child with Durkon, with the caveat of murdering Durkon in the process. On the other hand, if we take that joke-panel with vampire-Roy seriously, he'll stay the same, with the addition of a hunger he won't be able to control.
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Apr 10, 2013 21:46
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ImpAtom posted:On the other hand Malack seemed pretty convinced that him being resurrected would 'kill' who he is now. The same may apply to Durkon and he may be a different person. It would in a sense. Resurrection would kill "Malack" and everything he's done as a vampire would be rendered pretty pointless. Resurrection on Vamp-Durkon would bring back Durkon and banish the domination IIRC.
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Apr 10, 2013 21:47
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I always assumed being undeaded worked like putting on a Helm of Opposite Alignment, or being targeted by a Morality Undone spell: your personality remains recognizable, but more destructive, domineering, selfish, and callous. You become a dark reflection of who your were. I doubt Durkpire will stick with the party as an undead unless Malak/Tarquin choose to, but neither do I think the probably lawful evil Durkpire and probably lawful evil Malak are going to be willing to do any lasting harm to the Order; Durkpire because of his past loyalties, and Malak because of his oath to Durkon.
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Apr 10, 2013 21:52
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Despite being evil, Durkula knows about the gates and the Snarl and that the gods might unmake the world if they need to build a new prison for the Snarl. Most evil people like the world, and do not want it destroyed. If they understood the situation it is quite possible for evil characters to help the OotS purely out of self-interest. If he knew everything even Tarquin would likely prefer for the whole gate situation to just go away, because he has the power he wants.
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Apr 11, 2013 02:14
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LightWarden posted:Chuuls aren't outsiders so they're not something you can normally summon using spells. Mezzoloth was mentioned earlier, and Piscoloth is another option. Fiendish Chuul.
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Apr 11, 2013 02:37
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I don't know if I'd summon anything with visibly edible bits to go up against Belkar.
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Apr 11, 2013 04:14
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Have we been told the exact extent Tarquin does know about the gates? Now that Durkon's being helpful, maybe he'll chime in with some worrying information. Hey, along those lines - would Nergal know about the Snarl? Maybe at some point when they get close enough he'll smack Malack and say 'knock it off on this one, okay?'. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 04:45 on Apr 11, 2013 |
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Apr 11, 2013 04:39
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MikeJF posted:Have we been told the exact extent Tarquin does know about the gates? Now that Durkon's being helpful, maybe he'll chime in with some worrying information. He knows what Nale knows, which is roughly 'the gate is dangerous and can be turned into a weapon'. Durkon, and the rest of the Order, don't really know more than that themselves, so there's not a lot he could volunteer. Unless Nergal became a god after the creation of the new world, he knows about the Snarl, but the gods in this setting are kind of inconsistent about how hands-on they are with their followers. Durkon praying for spells before getting bitten was rendered as straight-up calling Thor's cell phone, but the Dark One doesn't seem to speak to Redcloak at all, given how surprised he is to be getting a message through Jirix. It's entirely possible that Nergal could send down a letter saying "look, this artifact is off-limits, please stay the hell away from it/blow it up before anyone else touches it", but it's anyone's guess.
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Apr 11, 2013 05:10
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Actually, along those lines, did the Snarl eat everything except the gods, inhabitants outer planes and all? Because otherwise you'd think it'd be pretty common knowledge. They wouldn't have exactly missed the Prime Material Plane getting destroyed. But it wouldn't have been within the powers of the gods (or the will) to recreate all of the nastier outer plane stuff.
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Apr 11, 2013 05:53
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ImpAtom posted:On the other hand Malack seemed pretty convinced that him being resurrected would 'kill' who he is now. The same may apply to Durkon and he may be a different person. A possible clue to this is that since vampirization, he's lost his distinctive accent.
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Apr 11, 2013 14:22
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Didn't Malack mention that he still had to do an extra ritual that would somehow restore a bit of Durkon's personality, but didn't have the resources to do it now?
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Apr 11, 2013 14:26
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Not quiet. When a DnD vampire creates a spawn, the spawn is under it's creators total control until the creator chooses to release it. Durkula is essentially a personality-less drone until further notice, since Malack doesn't want him to be conflicted about fighting the Order.
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Apr 11, 2013 14:30
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Heatwizard posted:He knows what Nale knows, which is roughly 'the gate is dangerous and can be turned into a weapon'.
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Apr 12, 2013 03:23
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 New strip! Well, thank gently caress for that realisation.
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Apr 17, 2013 04:42
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Dallan Invictus posted:
What realization? I'll be honest, I thought nothing at all happened that strip.
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Apr 17, 2013 05:05
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I think it's mostly the realisation that "hey, now is not actually the time to go catatonic with guilt". Anything that makes it look like this scene will some day end earns high praise from me.
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Apr 17, 2013 05:12
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Nilbop posted:What realization? I'll be honest, I thought nothing at all happened that strip. The realization that the Order descended rather than staying in the upper chamber, so that V will be going towards them rather than away.
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Apr 17, 2013 05:56
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Sefer posted:The realization that the Order descended rather than staying in the upper chamber, so that V will be going towards them rather than away. V/Blackwing is Best Team.
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Apr 17, 2013 06:09
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Eh, needed more words and less action.
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Apr 17, 2013 06:45
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FMguru posted:Eh, needed more words and less action. Nicely done. 
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Apr 17, 2013 07:09
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sebmojo posted:V/Blackwing is Best Team. Now they are using that high Intelligence roll, glad to see it.
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Apr 17, 2013 10:33
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I detect some wisdom in there too, enough to accept responsibility despite the easier "the splices made me do it" argument.
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Apr 17, 2013 10:48
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TunaSpleen posted:I detect some wisdom in there too, enough to accept responsibility despite the easier "the splices made me do it" argument. Smells good. Smells like... Character development.
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Apr 17, 2013 10:53
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Great, I see so many posts and come into this thread thinking there's an update, then it's just... What? There's an update? Well ok then.
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Apr 17, 2013 11:56
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Why haven't they vaporized the imp, then? I get that at the end there they were able to figure out where Roy is based on the Imp's reaction, but unless he serves some other purpose it would probably help to get rid of him.
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Apr 17, 2013 12:48
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Ain't worth the spell slot man.
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Apr 17, 2013 12:52
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Well remember what happened the last time V blew a lot of spells trying to kill that little poo poo?
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Apr 17, 2013 13:17
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Besides which, killing the Imp just sends it home.
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Apr 17, 2013 13:27
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I'm fairly confident that since Quarr is an outsider, killing him would just lead to his essence merging with the plane he originated from.
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Apr 17, 2013 15:03
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ShadowCatboy posted:I'm fairly confident that since Quarr is an outsider, killing him would just lead to his essence merging with the plane he originated from. Yeah, Celia already established that death is a permanent end to the existence of an outsider (as opposed to mortals who either just have to wait for a rez, or get to enjoy an afterlife for eternity) Slashrat fucked around with this message at 16:18 on Apr 17, 2013 |
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Apr 17, 2013 16:11
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I thought killing devils and demons just sent them back to their home plane, and to really kill them you had to go to their home plane and kill them there.
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Apr 17, 2013 16:18
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It depends on the specifics of Rich's cosmology, but by the usual D&D cosmology, basically, yeah. What Celia's describing is true for elemental outsiders, but not necessarily for all outsiders in general.
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Apr 17, 2013 16:23
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In standard DnD, Outsiders conjured to a plane on a temporary basis through spells are banished, outsiders that have physically transversed to a plane (through Plane Shift or Gate) dissolve into planar substance when they are slain.
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Apr 17, 2013 16:30
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The summons (like the lobsteroloth Durkon conjured a few pages ago) are merely "projected" so if you kill them it just ends the summon; the actual critter is still safe and sound in its original plane. If an outsider is actually slain, though, it cannot be raised, reincarnated, or resurrected. However, it can still be True Resurrected, so there's that. Limited Wish, Wish, and Miracle will also work. Finally, "native outsiders" (like the planetouched) can be raised/reincarnated/resurrected just like normal mortals.
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Apr 17, 2013 16:46
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Slashrat posted:Yeah, Celia already established that death is a permanent end to the existence of an outsider (as opposed to mortals who either just have to wait for a rez, or get to enjoy an afterlife for eternity) That revelation was really...  That whole plot line when she was hanging out with Haley and in danger, the whole time I was reading it I just kept thinking Celia no don't die 
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