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AlternateAccount posted:Man, could Chris Pine be any more goddamn boring? Just the sight of him in these trailers makes my eyelids heavy. I've come around to him a bit, but man I still wish Helmsworth and Pine were switched around.
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Apr 20, 2013 07:24
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AlternateAccount posted:Man, could Chris Pine be any more goddamn boring? Just the sight of him in these trailers makes my eyelids heavy. And whats your excuse for the rest of you being heavy?
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Apr 20, 2013 07:45
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Rhyno posted:That doesn't jibe with the dialog and you can see 1701 on the ship rising from the ocean. I'm pretty sure that's another scene that involves the Enterprise hiding in some ocean somewhere for something. Wasn't there a trailer out before where you saw sea creatures outside the bridge viewscreen? I agree with the evil/alternate/painted black enterprise/dreadnought/ship statement, the deflector dish looks less like the enterprise and more like the other ship. e: the ship is also actually black logikv9 fucked around with this message at 07:59 on Apr 20, 2013 |
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Apr 20, 2013 07:56
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Styles Bitchley posted:Could be wrong but looking at it now after seeing trailer 3, that the ship crashing in the international trailer is actually the Dark Evilprise: The shots are very quick but what little we see of the deflector definitely doesn't look like the regular enterprise. And trying to kamikaze Starfleet HQ would make sense...
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Apr 20, 2013 08:09
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I'd consider it kind of neat if a Section 31 gone made rogue stole the Federation's big gently caress off ship and decided early in the movie to send it careening into Starfleet HQ while he had other options to pull out. Just as a gently caress you. But I'm sure that's part of the climax.
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Apr 20, 2013 08:18
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I'm in the "ST could use some non-Bond plot-plots for once". Something where the solution isn't the evil ship exploding while its evil captain dies. On the other hand, ST09 was really good and the only serious problem was the lame villain, and Cumberbatch seems exciting, so I'm sure ST13'll be a good experience. feedmyleg posted:I've come around to him a bit, but man I still wish Helmsworth and Pine were switched around.
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Apr 20, 2013 11:38
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Cardboard Box A posted:Yeah good catch! I'm going with 'climactic battle between Enterprise and Evil-enterprise over Earth climaxes in both ships crashing out of orbit. Maybe the Enterprise survives, maybe it doesn't'. e: oh I hadn't heard that quote at the end before "I am better" "At what?" "Everything." Yeah he's Khan. Alchenar fucked around with this message at 12:23 on Apr 20, 2013 |
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Apr 20, 2013 12:20
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Speaking of Trek movies, the Best of Both Worlds theatrical screening is this week: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IB1SCNQIsa4&hd=1 Aatrek fucked around with this message at 13:48 on Apr 20, 2013 |
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Apr 20, 2013 13:44
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Aatrek posted:Speaking of Trek movies, the Best of Both Worlds theatrical screening is this week: Best Trek. One of the worst things ever to happen to Trek was getting rid of Ron Jones as a composer. Thanks Rick Berman!
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Apr 20, 2013 14:26
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Cingulate posted:Kirk always was supposed to be a diversion, wasn't he? The heart of it is Spock, the ship, and the rest of the crew. Kirk is just the blond sexy guy you put in front because the people with money think you need a blond sexy guy in front. ...no.
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Apr 20, 2013 17:05
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Spock doesn't even have a heart. He's a green-blooded hobgoblin, an emotionless robot!
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Apr 20, 2013 17:12
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Everytime I watch ST2009 I wish I too had thought up the "get a hobo to say he's from the future to get me a quick promotion right as I was about to be kicked out of school for cheating" con.
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Apr 20, 2013 17:40
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jeeves posted:Everytime I watch ST2009 I wish I too had thought up the "get a hobo to say he's from the future to get me a quick promotion right as I was about to be kicked out of school for cheating" con. I really hope the reason Kirk got instantly promoted from Cadet to Captain in the duration of like a week is that half of Starfleet died and they just had to take what they had left.
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Apr 20, 2013 18:01
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Thom12255 posted:I really hope the reason Kirk got instantly promoted from Cadet to Captain in the duration of like a week is that half of Starfleet died and they just had to take what they had left. Nah, that's not what happens. 'The Fleet' is off doing peacekeeping at some system which is why when Vulcan gets hit they have to empty the academy to fill out whatever ships they have in spacedock around Earth and send them off. That's why Kirk and Spock have the post-Vulcan argument where Kirk wants to go to Earth and Spock wants to meet up with the fleet. Starfleet keeps it's current strength but loses several entire classes of trainee officers.
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Apr 20, 2013 18:05
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The blinged-out nacelles version of the Enterprise was "Starfleet's newest flagship" right from the launch of the ship... not due to numerous 5-year missions of awesomeness. And yet somehow a total douchebag cadet who was about to be kicked out of the academy for cheating in front of tons of witnesses that he was a complete rear end in a top hat to gets promoted to captain of the flagship even with the old captain still alive. Oh wait, he was also randomly given a field promotion to acting captain for no good reason when he was technically a stowaway, which I don't even think chain of command would allow if Starfleet had any logic. They even mention that there was some sort of fleet of ships massing that Spock was ordered to join, so it is not like the Enterprise is the only ship left with no one else able to be captain rank who has vastly more experience or... um. I'm going to stop, it doesn't make sense to go on. So as I said, the old "hire a bum to pretend to be the old version of your new arch nemesis who caught you cheating" trick worked perfectly.
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Apr 20, 2013 18:35
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Cingulate posted:Kirk always was supposed to be a diversion, wasn't he? The heart of it is Spock, the ship, and the rest of the crew. Kirk is just the blond sexy guy you put in front because the people with money think you need a blond sexy guy in front. Not at all, no.
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Apr 20, 2013 18:40
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jeeves posted:The blinged-out nacelles version of the Enterprise was "Starfleet's newest flagship" right from the launch of the ship... not due to numerous 5-year missions of awesomeness. Well, Kirk did call dibs and then licked the captain's chair. Who was going to take it then?
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Apr 20, 2013 18:44
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jeeves posted:The blinged-out nacelles version of the Enterprise was "Starfleet's newest flagship" right from the launch of the ship... not due to numerous 5-year missions of awesomeness. I can't remember where I read it, but I think JJ said that there was originally a line where Spock Prime speaks about the coincidences and illogical situations going on. He posits that universe itself is doing its best to get the Enterprise Crew on the Enterprise.
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Apr 20, 2013 21:40
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jeeves posted:The blinged-out nacelles version of the Enterprise was "Starfleet's newest flagship" right from the launch of the ship... not due to numerous 5-year missions of awesomeness. Kirk is a loose cannon! He's got to turn his com-badge and phaser in! And you know how much paperwork has to be filled out from the destruction he causes? But damnit...the man gets results...
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Apr 20, 2013 21:47
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Alchenar posted:I'm going with 'climactic battle between Enterprise and Evil-enterprise over Earth climaxes in both ships crashing out of orbit. Maybe the Enterprise survives, maybe it doesn't'. Actually I'm thinking a big fight between Enterprise and not-Enterprise happens, the Enterprise crashes, Scotty is all "the ship's dead, cap'n!", and Kirk is like NO loving WAY and they find a way to raise it out of the sea. If the ship does get blowed up it seems like they're at least making that part of some major theme as opposed to just being tacked on in Generations because they needed to make a new CG model.
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Apr 20, 2013 22:15
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Cellophane S posted:Nemesis didn't just break Picard, it drat near broke Star Trek. I think it's the absolute pits. Worse maybe, even, than The Final Frontier. The difference is, I can see myself watching Final Frontier once in a while- it's not a good movie but it's bright and goofy and dumb in the way that some movies of that era were and there are some funny moments and so on. Nemesis is just not fun to watch. It looks dreary, it moves slowly (but not like in TMP where there at least seems to be a reason for things to move slowly), there's no energy to any of it.
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Apr 20, 2013 22:17
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Maxwell Lord posted:Actually I'm thinking a big fight between Enterprise and not-Enterprise happens, the Enterprise crashes, Scotty is all "the ship's dead, cap'n!", and Kirk is like NO loving WAY and they find a way to raise it out of the sea. It has been confirmed since December (when the first several minutes were screened in front of The Hobbit's IMAX showings) that the sequence of the Enterprise rising from the sea takes place during the opening segment of the film; Kirk orders the Enterprise to surface and reveals its presence to the natives of the planet, which is what gets him in hot water and has Pike lecturing him about what a pain in the rear end he is.
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Apr 20, 2013 22:18
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I'm expecting some kind of just this one time inter-atmospheric emergency warp to save the Enterprise. Whether it happens during the first or last encounter with the baddies is the big question.
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Apr 20, 2013 22:21
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Maxwell Lord posted:The difference is, I can see myself watching Final Frontier once in a while- it's not a good movie but it's bright and goofy and dumb in the way that some movies of that era were and there are some funny moments and so on. Nemesis is just not fun to watch. It looks dreary, it moves slowly (but not like in TMP where there at least seems to be a reason for things to move slowly), there's no energy to any of it. I would have liked to have seen Shatner's original idea for Final Frontier, just to see if it would have turned out better than what we got. Reading the Wiki article seems to indicate that they had to cut a hell of a lot of corners due to strikes, costs, issues with locations, and some disagreements amongst the cast about what their characters would have done. Final Frontier, like you said wasn't as "epic" as the other story lines, but it was entertaining and a "feel good" Star Trek movie, much like The Voyage Home. Now Nemesis on the other hand was just awful! It had the best starship battles since WOK and DS9, but everything else was horrible. I saw it in theaters, went home and came to the conclusion that it couldn't have been worse than Insurrection. I saw it again in the theater a few days later. I attribute that to some manner of victim mentality, revisiting the scene of the crime to show yourself it actually happened. On second viewing I was positive it was as bad as I had throught, and even found more horrible things about it I missed during the first viewing. It was nearly bad enough for a "rape shower".
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Apr 21, 2013 01:17
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Nemesis is pretty bad in a lot of ways, but I don't think it deserves all the scorn it gets heaped on it. It's atmospheric and I enjoy the cinematography quite a bit. And, as Blistex said, it had a really great space battle. I left the theater smiling so I can't count it as a total loss.
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Apr 21, 2013 01:35
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Great_Gerbil posted:Nemesis is pretty bad in a lot of ways, but I don't think it deserves all the scorn it gets heaped on it. It's atmospheric and I enjoy the cinematography quite a bit. And, as Blistex said, it had a really great space battle. I left the theater smiling so I can't count it as a total loss. The movie looked beautiful, sound was great, good camera work, etc. but it didn't make up for all of its sins. My biggest gripes fall into two catagories: General complaints: B-4 and how Shinzon's plan seemed to hinge on the Enterprise finding him, putting him together, and letting him access their computer and kidnap Picard? Shinzon's motivation made no sense. "The Romulans were mean to me, so I took them over and will now kill everyone on Earth". What? Actors phoning it in. (apparently they didn't get along well with the director) Pacing was really strange, and every time there was a lull, they tried to "up" the tension with a mind-rape. Picard and Data took up about 98% of the screen time. We get it, some fans would love nothing better than to watch them and nobody else, not me. Picard's character, acts out of character. Goofy, careless, shocked to the point of standing and waiting to die. Humour seemed to be really juvenile and shoe-horned in at strange times. Right at the beginning the Romulan senator is arguing that joining with Shinzon will make them "Stronger than even the Federation". How? One slave planet, which the Romulans already control will somehow make them unstoppable? That's like France saying, "If we join forces with French Polynesia, we will be even stronger than the US". You already own it, how is that going to make you stronger?  complaints:What the hell is Wesley doing there? Isn't he supposed to be some sort of space ghost? Romulan Ale. . . because Worf loves Romulan stuff all of a sudden? Let's go shoot up the natives of a Pre-Contact planet. drat! The crew looks old, somehow the TOS crew during ST:VI (being even older) looked more capable. Bottomless pit in the Enterprise E? Did the Emperor from Star Wars have a hand in the design? MIND RAPE! I'm in the middle of a very precise plan, and I want everything to go well, but I need some mind-sex. The Romulans, who have been established as masters of spying don't notice their slaves building a gently caress-off huge ship? We're going to make a clone that takes 30 years to grow, then he rapid-ages to be in-line with Picard. . . around retirement age? 80's action move body count from Picard alone. Reverse-mind rape can tell you exactly where in space a person is located. ADMIRAL JANEWAY! Shinzon's ship can overtake the Enterprise at maximum warp, despite it having a head start? The only thing I really went, "YES!" to during the movie was when they used the phasers to detect Shinzon's cloaked ship. Blistex fucked around with this message at 04:45 on Apr 21, 2013 |
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Apr 21, 2013 04:32
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Thom12255 posted:I really hope the reason Kirk got instantly promoted from Cadet to Captain in the duration of like a week is that half of Starfleet died and they just had to take what they had left. Nah, Temporal Cold War - Starfleet will trust future dudes, especially when they deliver lots of information.
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Apr 21, 2013 05:02
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the Picard thing is probably crazy nonsense, but the way they could set it up would be like: -- Nero's intrusion and creation of the new timeline fucks some things up for the Picard family and he grows up to be crazy as gently caress -- ~~time travel things happen~~ -- Shinzon always said that if Picard grew up under his circumstances he would be doing the same evil poo poo -- that's all I got
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Apr 21, 2013 05:10
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Blistex posted:The only thing I really went, "YES!" to during the movie was when they used the phasers to detect Shinzon's cloaked ship. Agreed. I love when they finally do something in a movie that I have been shouting at the screen for years for them to do.
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Apr 21, 2013 05:29
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FrensaGeran posted:Agreed. I love when they finally do something in a movie that I have been shouting at the screen for years for them to do. My number one "shout at screen" thing has always been, "You just destroyed one enemy by hitting it with 4 photons, do it again to the other two!" The TNG episode where they send Tasha back in time with the Enterprise C is a perfect example. Three Klingon Birds of prey show up. They destroy one in 5 seconds, but just sit there doing nothing until they are destroyed. Do they have to carry those torpedoes by hand from another part of the ship to launch them? "poo poo, we just fired all 4 in the tubes, maybe we should have had another 4 waiting?" Ah, sperging out over Trek. If only my basement was habitable, then everything would be right in the world.
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Apr 21, 2013 05:37
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I liked it in First Contact when they suddenly remembered they could fire torpedoes in bursts instead of one at a time and consequently spew a billion of them at the cube.
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Apr 21, 2013 06:17
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Hot Sexy Jupiter posted:I liked it in First Contact when they suddenly remembered they could fire torpedoes in bursts instead of one at a time and consequently spew a billion of them at the cube. Forgot about that! Most of the time Picard acts like every torpedo fired comes out of his paycheque.
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Apr 21, 2013 06:48
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feedmyleg posted:I've come around to him a bit, but man I still wish Helmsworth and Pine were switched around. This is not the worst idea at all. If they did this and then actually gave Karl Urban something to do, they might make some good movies. Oh well :\ Spaceman Future! posted:And whats your excuse for the rest of you being heavy? Dayum :[ jeeves posted:The blinged-out nacelles version of the Enterprise was "Starfleet's newest flagship" right from the launch of the ship... not due to numerous 5-year missions of awesomeness. The first movie is basically inexcusable and incomprehensible. The whole thing clearly came into existence as a bullet point list of scenes they wanted to have. Then they just slapped the poo poo together with the most contrived and nonsensical possible bits of "plot" in between to push from one to the next. It's awful, and for some reason 99% of goons don't give a gently caress.
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Apr 21, 2013 07:53
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The big thing that killed Nemesis for me is this: There's a scene where it's implied Shinzon's heading for Earth to kill everyone, and so Starfleet is mobilizing ships to head him off at the pass, and it looks like we're headed to an awesome final confrontation with lots of spaceships flying around and the fate of a planet at stake. Cool! But the plot dictates that Shinzon needs another hit of Picard DNA, so he stops the Enterprise halfway and we get a different climax with fewer ships and less stuff happening and no planets in peril or anything.
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Apr 21, 2013 08:04
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Blistex posted:The only thing I really went, "YES!" to during the movie was when they used the phasers to detect Shinzon's cloaked ship. Voyager did this against the Vidians in the hall of mirrors in the episode Phage (5th episode of season 1).
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Apr 21, 2013 14:14
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I'm gonna indulge a little here ...Blistex posted:
This is pretty easily explained by Shinzon knowing the course of the Enterprise and activating the beacons at the right moment. quote:Shinzon's motivation made no sense. "The Romulans were mean to me, so I took them over and will now kill everyone on Earth". What? I figured it was more about jealousy over Picard's opportunities. Note that, throughout the film, the Viceroy is urging Shinzon to just get the plan over with but Shinzon seems obsessed with meeting Picard and studying him. The destruction of Earth and subsequent Romulan hegemony seemed almost an afterthought. quote:Pacing was really strange, and every time there was a lull, they tried to "up" the tension with a mind-rape. To be fair, that set up the really great scene later on where Troi finds the cloaked ship. quote:Picard's character, acts out of character. Goofy, careless, shocked to the point of standing and waiting to die. This is my biggest pet peeve with critics of the movie. What a humanizing moment for Picard. For an entire series we've watched him with cold detachment and dedication to duty. Here and there we see through that exterior, true. But here, Picard essentially watches his younger self die the same way he, himself, almost died decades earlier. In that context, in find it be an incredibly powerful moment. Picard's question of circumstances and character finally come full circle. Here is his clone suffering the same fate Picard narrowly avoided by virtue of his privilege and upbringing. quote:What the hell is Wesley doing there? Isn't he supposed to be some sort of space ghost? A million times this. quote:Bottomless pit in the Enterprise E? Did the Emperor from Star Wars have a hand in the design? I always assumed it was a turbo shaft and the gravity was reversed so that the Viceroy hit the bottom of the saucer somewhere. quote:The Romulans, who have been established as masters of spying don't notice their slaves building a gently caress-off huge ship? This is also pretty easily explained. Shinzon had Romulan collaborators. At the beginning, the Romulan Senate is discussing a shortfall in the Reman quotas. Siphoning off supplies, I presume. I think a lot of it comes down to different suspensions of disbelief, honestly? I don't know. But a lot of it can be best understood in the context of Shinzon as a young human with conflicting interests. YMMV EDIT: Having said all that, I still think the movie drops the ball in a lot of places. But there's some subtextual reading that can repair some of the damage. Great_Gerbil fucked around with this message at 14:45 on Apr 21, 2013 |
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Apr 21, 2013 14:43
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AlternateAccount posted:The first movie is basically inexcusable and incomprehensible. The whole thing clearly came into existence as a bullet point list of scenes they wanted to have. Then they just slapped the poo poo together with the most contrived and nonsensical possible bits of "plot" in between to push from one to the next. It's awful, and for some reason 99% of goons don't give a gently caress. I don't think I dislike the movie quite as much as you do, but I agree about a lot of the plot points being contrived. I remember thinking that the movie was pretty great after seeing it in the theater, but subsequent viewings at home really make all of the warts pop out at you. I'm optimistic that Into Darkness will be a lot less bumbling now that they've established all of the characters and shed the trappings of the old Trek series/films, but we'll see.
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Apr 21, 2013 15:04
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pik_d posted:Voyager did this against the Vidians in the hall of mirrors in the episode Phage (5th episode of season 1). I'm quoting this so your shame will. . . kidding. I guess even Voyager can do something right once in a while.
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Apr 21, 2013 15:33
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MisterBibs posted:I can't remember where I read it, but I think JJ said that there was originally a line where Spock Prime speaks about the coincidences and illogical situations going on. He posits that universe itself is doing its best to get the Enterprise Crew on the Enterprise. Why would "the universe" give a poo poo if it's an alternate universe, so things are never ever gonna be the same anyway? Star Trek: we've evolved beyond the need for superstitious mystical nonsense, except when we need to handwave away silly plot contrivances. Great_Gerbil posted:I'm gonna indulge a little here ... Nemesis doesn't earn your indulgence. This isn't reading between the lines, it's writing over them because there's nothing good there to begin with. You're literally putting X times better thought into it than everyone involved did, where X is any value you choose because anything times zero is still zero. And yes, that unfortunately includes Patrick Stewart and Brent Spiner. Good actors sometimes make terrible producers 
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Apr 21, 2013 19:20
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McSpanky posted:Why would "the universe" give a poo poo if it's an alternate universe, so things are never ever gonna be the same anyway? Lets not forget that the director was a complete idiot. He thought that Geordi was an alien.
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