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Rulebook Heavily posted:When you hack and slash a foe while riding a spider and down them, you may choose to let your foe live but have them be poisoned to unconsciousness and cocooned by your spider. I've basically been allowing this in my party unless people are using messy/forceful weapons - the "take prisoners at 0 HP" thing, anyway. In fact it's kind of a consideration for them - if you want prisoners, don't send the barbarian their way. Am I doing it wrong?
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Apr 23, 2013 18:23
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That's how I do it. I even allowed takedown shots with firearms in the case of my player's paladin--though it only came up once, and after explicitly asking if he really wanted to shoot to kill at the unarmed suspect. (He did. I related the full story somewhere in the first page or two of this thread.)
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Apr 23, 2013 18:47
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Glazius posted:I've basically been allowing this in my party unless people are using messy/forceful weapons - the "take prisoners at 0 HP" thing, anyway. In fact it's kind of a consideration for them - if you want prisoners, don't send the barbarian their way. Am I doing it wrong? You're doing it right, but do those methods also giftwrap the prisoner?
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Apr 23, 2013 19:02
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For a full class Giant, here are a few archetypes to consider: *The rugged keeper of giant beasts *The thoughtful man outside of society *The oaf who's an evolutionary throwback *The legendary figure with a fearful appetite.
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Apr 23, 2013 19:25
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I'll be starting up a DW game this week for my group and I've been poking around the two threads here for ideas and help. I noticed Gnome7's "improved/alternate" base classes in the OP and was thinking about picking them up, but I was wondering if anyone could explain them to me. (Gnome7 would be the obvious choice but anyone's commentary would be welcome.) I'm just curious as to the reasons behind them--what was broken that they are fixing? With a group that's new to DW would it be best to stick with the playbooks as presented, or will these newer versions be better? Thanks!
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Apr 23, 2013 19:58
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Kellsterik posted:There's hardly any choice in the moves themselves, no pick-2 from these 4 and only one hold move when that seems fitting for a collecting-and-expending-things class. Especially Soul Eater could easily be made into a choice move, something like TombsGrave posted:Soul Eater is thematically interesting but the catch of it is more than likely going to dissuade players from learning it rather than take it and use it wisely for fear of permanent loss of control. I might have been avoiding choice lists after going overboard on them with another class I'm working on, but I don't really want to make a big deal out of hold for spirits since it either heavily restricts the number of spirits you can catch or gets into handling numbers too big to comfortably manage in a simple game like DW. Soul Eater especially is something I want to avoid making a choice move. It's not supposed to be something you do a bunch, it's supposed to be you breaking the natural order of things and greedily consuming the spirits of others instead of letting them pass on to Death's domain, and it's not a healthy thing to do often. Rolling to consume a spirit seems kind of odd, given you already rolled to catch them and possibly rolled to make them stop fighting against you. If Soul Eater seems scary and makes people not want to risk taking it, I feel like that means the positive isn't as good as it should be. I don't want it to let you learn everything a spirit knew, but maybe it should specify that it'll be relevant to your current situation if possible, or give you greater bonuses, or maybe make a chunk of the health regen be static so it's dependable as a heal. I'm afraid of it getting out of hand and ending up longwinded and confusing, but I don't want to just make shoving ten spirits down your gullet give you -X ongoing until your spirit-stomachache subsides. It should be usable often enough to be worth spending an advance on, but not often enough that you just stab a bag of rats and have fifty healing potions on hand to make you invincible. Kellsterik posted:For Slip Through The Cracks, how exactly do you strike at an enemy's spirit? By using Forceful Release? Or if not, what keeps you from striking every enemy's spirit for every attack? It's meant to be a simple +bonus move, kind of like something along the lines of "When you spill the blood of your enemies, take +X damage ongoing". Unless the thing doesn't have a spirit of any kind, you should be able to strike at it every attack, yes. It'd be kind of lame if you spent a whole advance just to get +2 against armor in a few specific cases. I think I'll reword it so that it's when you 'aim' at an enemy's spirit. Kellsterik posted:For the 'Words' method of catching, does 'calm a spirit' refer to the 7-9 result on Spiritbind? That could be reworded as something more active/evocative, "convince" or "placate" maybe. Calm is a bit tepid and indistinct. Yeah, I could probably use a different word for that. The goal was to make Words let you be really convincing, so you could lie to something and say you're going to carry out its task, but expel/banish/whatever it once you've gotten what you wanted out of it, or you could happily carry out their tasks if you're a nice kind of adventurer. Kellsterik posted:Thinking of Mask of the Betrayer, I think you could diversify the class and support more playstyles by adding some more advances centered on the idea of a natural or unnatural hunger, able to intimidate spirits with your reputation/aura and consume them for power. There's a seed of it currently in the Whispers of the World and Soul Eater moves, maybe you could have an advanced move like One of my 6-10 advanced moves I'm planning is literally Demon's/Dark Souls style weapon forging, so I definitely plan on making some kind of binding. I'll try to make a more notable spot for a consuming and unearthly Catcher as I finish up the 6-10 moves to pair up with stuff like Snatcher and Soul Eater, but I want to avoid doing things that the core classes can do and using monster moves is kind of the Druid's domain. TombsGrave posted:Spiritbind's 10+ is easier than a 7-9 but it also sounds more limited. Maybe it should read "On a 10+, the spirit agrees to help you for a time. On a 7-9 the spirit is unwilling; choose one: * It puts up a struggle. * It will only help you on one condition." Hm, I guess I'm torn between having spirits retain their will or having spirits be willing to help you when you catch them. I kind of prefer spirits acting as they will, but having moves that refer to spending spirits not require they be willing (Forced Release works just as well on the bloodthirsty orc as the friendly old man, and once you put it in your mouth food is food). If you snatch some goblin scout's soul, you can turn it into a hand crossbow easily, but if you try talking with him he'll probably be panicked that the humies are stomping around in the territory he was supposed to be protecting before that wolf ate him. I kind of see it like the Druid's ability to talk to animals: just because you can bark like a wolf doesn't mean they'll do a backflip for you and beg for treats. Maybe that makes catching spirits feel weak though? TombsGrave posted:You might need to clarify "Become the Hunted." Maybe "you send your spirit out to act in your stead" instead of "you may act as your incorporeal spirit;" as-is, it sounds like you turn yourself incorporeal, and "returning to your body" looks like either an error or a non-sequitur. I definitely need to clarify it, but it's kind of the other way around. The idea actually is to turn yourself incorporeal. Maybe I should use a word like 'resume' instead of 'return' to make it more understandable that you're turning yourself into your spirit and then turning yourself back when you run out of hold. Well, that's a big post, but it's good to hear that people are interested in the Catcher and this feedback will hopefully help me clean a few things up and put up some revisions later. The fact that people can match it up with crazy ideas with significantly different takes on the same base already makes this feel pretty successful, though, given how much I love doing that myself.  And because I feel the need to return the favor, I'll add in some things about the Giant! Spatial Awareness is an awesome move and assigning numbers to the sizes makes this work really well, but the sizes themselves have a bit of a problem. The greater sizes make it exponentially more difficult to handle the Giant in a campaign, but the gains for increasing your size don't feel worth it. Being the Iron Giant with your tiny little buddies definitely has some potential, but being sixty feet tall is a pretty extreme restriction, and about forty feet isn't much better. Being able to attack at Near with melee sounds kind of cool, but, especially if you decide to add Hurl in, I think it'd work better both mechanically and fictionally if you just opted to chuck things at ranged enemies when exceeding melee range. It'll cause a lot of destruction, shove stuff around, be cool as hell, and still use STR and deal your damage. I'm not so sure the scale should be between troll and Godzilla. Being three, maybe four times as tall as a typical human feels like a better cap, otherwise it seems like it'd be too difficult to put real fictional challenges for the Giant aside from stuff that requires finesse. At 10x size, I can just plant my foot on the orc battalion and win. Swipes of my arms will take out entire cities, I can crush drat near anything, and I can even just sit on the big scary dragon and smash it with my weight. That sounds cool, but also really difficult to pair with your buddies the size of your finger. The Gargantuan Giant just feels too far removed from even some pretty fantastic parties with grand powers. It's really cool to be all about being a giant ancient creature and I'd love to see a class like that, but unless you're playing a Godzilla vs Megazord Inverse World crossover (do this) it might be a touch too ridiculous. Maybe I'm making a bigger deal than it needs to be, but I'm having trouble thinking up a campaign that comfortably accommodates a party of adventurers and their factory-sized friend. Everything Counts posted:I'll be starting up a DW game this week for my group and I've been poking around the two threads here for ideas and help. I noticed Gnome7's "improved/alternate" base classes in the OP and was thinking about picking them up, but I was wondering if anyone could explain them to me. (Gnome7 would be the obvious choice but anyone's commentary would be welcome.) I'm just curious as to the reasons behind them--what was broken that they are fixing? With a group that's new to DW would it be best to stick with the playbooks as presented, or will these newer versions be better? Thanks! They're basically just some minor changes to the classes based on some issues people have had with them. The Fighter is given a real move to use so he isn't just "smash things and also people, that is all I do", the Bard is tweaked because it's pretty widely panned as a disappointing class, and the Wizard is just a tiny tweak to remove one of the sillier limitations of Vancian-style casting. The core classes work just fine out of the book, but if you play them and find them lacking, Gnome's versions might have something to spruce it up and make you like them more. I do think a new party might want to start with the book's classes and work from there though, since they make for a really good base. Once you get comfortable with the system, feel free to go nuts in all the crazy stuff people have made up, but diving straight into those might be difficult.
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Apr 23, 2013 20:18
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Everything Counts posted:I'll be starting up a DW game this week for my group and I've been poking around the two threads here for ideas and help. I noticed Gnome7's "improved/alternate" base classes in the OP and was thinking about picking them up, but I was wondering if anyone could explain them to me. (Gnome7 would be the obvious choice but anyone's commentary would be welcome.) I'm just curious as to the reasons behind them--what was broken that they are fixing? With a group that's new to DW would it be best to stick with the playbooks as presented, or will these newer versions be better? Thanks! They usually give more utility. The fighter now controls combat better; the bard can be more knowledgeable and help shape the world. I'd recommend them; they're not overpowered, they're just more focused at what they're designed to do. Edit: I prefer the Mage to the Wizard (I find it annoying when people look through their spell lists instead of coming up with something), but a lot of the mage schools are difficult to adjudicate. Allowing someone access to the Time school in particular can get loving crazy. [My pet theory is that if a setting has time travel, it should be the ONLY main magic or super power. It's almost never incidental because it's literally control over casuality.]
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Apr 23, 2013 21:08
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Quick question Re: Paladins. The Quest move. Is that something you initiate during character creation ala the druid's shifting move or the clerics religion, or is it something that you change during play? Is it a life-long quest that typically doesn't change, or something versatile?
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Apr 24, 2013 00:15
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It should tie into the session. There's no point having a vow to defeat the Dread emperor Gorthax if you're spending an evening in the Cavern of Trials. Only make the quest irrelevant when you'd do that for other characters; putting a wizard in an anti-magic zone, or the bard in a harsh dread library.
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Apr 24, 2013 00:30
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That's pretty much what I figured, but the more I read it over and over the more I started thinking it looked like a way for Paladins to influence plot from stage one. If a dude makes a Paladin with the Quest "Slay Dread Emperor Gorthrax" then it means that somewhere in the campaign the party should come in contact with the name Dread Emperor Gorthrax. Once he's dead (and this might take one session or one hundred) the Paladin can take on a new Quest and move things along in another direction.
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Apr 24, 2013 00:34
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Captain_Indigo posted:That's pretty much what I figured, but the more I read it over and over the more I started thinking it looked like a way for Paladins to influence plot from stage one. If a dude makes a Paladin with the Quest "Slay Dread Emperor Gorthrax" then it means that somewhere in the campaign the party should come in contact with the name Dread Emperor Gorthrax. Once he's dead (and this might take one session or one hundred) the Paladin can take on a new Quest and move things along in another direction. Every character can do that kind of story influence by roleplaying backstory or just spouting lore. Meanwhile it sucks if it takes me a hundred sessions to get new quest perks and requirements.
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Apr 24, 2013 02:14
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Everything Counts posted:I'll be starting up a DW game this week for my group and I've been poking around the two threads here for ideas and help. I noticed Gnome7's "improved/alternate" base classes in the OP and was thinking about picking them up, but I was wondering if anyone could explain them to me. (Gnome7 would be the obvious choice but anyone's commentary would be welcome.) I'm just curious as to the reasons behind them--what was broken that they are fixing? With a group that's new to DW would it be best to stick with the playbooks as presented, or will these newer versions be better? Thanks! The main reason I wrote The Improved Bard was the make it easier to read, actually. Arcane Art is written very obtusely in the original, and is not all that good either. Bardic Lore on the original is not bad, per se, but it is overly narrow and specific, so I reworked it to be more open ended and fun to use. I'd recommend it over the original Bard, but you can go either way with The Fighter and The Wizard. The Improved Fighter is more interesting to play, but the original is actually, numerically, a good bit stronger, because more of its advances are +numbers than the Improved Fighter's. I don't like +numbers from a design standpoint because they are generally boring, which is part of why I did these rewrites. I hope this helps!
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Apr 24, 2013 02:53
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Dear god in Heaven. I just found DW, am picking up my hardcopy tomorrow, and am looking forward to giving it a try with my group. Still working my way through the original DW thread (on page 38, you m-f'ers are prolific), so I apologize if these questions have already been asked. Questions: Are all these hack playbooks being done in Inkscape? If anybody's using InDesign, are ya'll running 5.5, or are some of you able to do it on 5.0? Thank you!
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Apr 24, 2013 04:19
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CitizenKeen posted:Dear god in Heaven. I know Gnome uses inkscape, and his final products look great. I stumble around ID5.5. I haven't used ID before making stuff for Dungeon World, so I can't comment on the differences between 5.- and 5.5. In other news, the Giant has had more added to it. Like my other Playbooks, I often stare at a blank page for about a week before the moves start flooding out. I've retweaked some of the numbers on Larger than life to create more balance between the giant and other players. I initially included Gargantuan just to see how far I could push the concept, but had reservations. A player that size would either trivialize things that would be threats to other players, or be excluded from scenes simply because they couldn't fit. The new maximum size is 5x average human, which is still really big. I liked Golden Bee's suggestion of a keeper of giant beasts so much, I create a series of Pet moves for the giant: quote:
I've started creating advanced moves that let you select one of the consequences from Spatial Awareness to increase the benefits from another move. there are also a few advanced moves that reduce the number of consequences caused by Spatial Awareness. I also really like the concept of Enduring Atlas quote:Enduring Atlas
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Apr 24, 2013 06:37
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madadric posted:I know Gnome uses inkscape, and his final products look great. I stumble around ID5.5. I haven't used ID before making stuff for Dungeon World, so I can't comment on the differences between 5.- and 5.5. So I don't know a ton about InDesign, but I'm familiar with it, and apparently the character sheets on Sage's github are saved in a 5.5 format and can't be used by 5.0; according to the interwebs they can exported to a 5.0 format. Any help? Even just the blank ones? If not, I'll wrestle inkscape into submission.
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Apr 24, 2013 14:03
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Fluffy and Enduring Atlas both sound like loving awesome ideas for moves. Remembering Babe the Giant Blue Ox 
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Apr 24, 2013 16:04
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Hello, everyone! I'm continuing my narration of The Faustian Bargain Bin campaign. If you missed one of the other parts, you can find them here: Part 1. Part 2A. Part 2B. Part 3A As this story had grown incredibly long, I split it into two parts. Part 1 (linked above) and Part 2 (this one). Our cast of characters: Me, the GM. Sir Finnigan (retired) the fighter. Dodge, the thief. Anagram, the namer. Edwin, the bard. Faustus, the warlock, ... and his servitor the Lady in Yellow. I don't remember her name (if she even had one) so I'll just call her Chrysanthemum, as it seems fitting. --- Part 3-B: "Elves are freakin' weird, guys." As you may remember, we left off with the party promising the mongrel-men that they would destroy the "filthy" elves next door and their relic the Bright Orb. In return the mongrel-men would loan the party their own religious relic, the Blight Orb, to destroy an enemy nation with which the party is at war. The party approaches a circular marble slab set into the forest floor. White marble columns stand circling the platform. Torches hang from each column. In the center of the marble slab, a rectangular opening leads to some stairs going downward. "Ok, guys, what's our plan here?" Anagram asks, coming to a halt above the staircase. "We told the mongrel-men that we'd eliminate the elves for them, but I assume that's not really what we're doing?" "Nah," the party says, pretty much in unison. "We should go and talk to the elves about the situation. They would probably love to have that Blight Orb taken far, far away," Edwin says. "Yeah," Dodge adds, "they could just give us a fake copy of their relic that we could destroy as 'proof' to the mongrel-men that our quest was successful." "I figured we would just go in and offer to help the elves eliminate the mongrel-men next door. With their assistance in doing so, we'll be able to take the mongrel-men by surprise and take Blight Orb away so it never harms their lands again," Finnigan says. "That sounds like an excellent idea," a silky voice from behind one of the columns casually remarks. An elf dressed in field leathers and camouflage steps out from behind one of the columns into the view of the early morning torchlight. "Come with me," he says, "I'll take you to see my leige. You can work out the details with him." The elf leads them down a spiral staircase made of matching white marble, into the black void below. The stairs don't appear to be suspended in any way; they just float there. As the party goes deeper, they note that they can see behind them up the stairs nearly all the way up, but can only see a few steps ahead. Finally they reach the bottom, and as they step off the last step, the blackness just winks away. Ahead of them they can see a huge, open underground chamber full of exotic trees and strange birds. The expansive ceiling holds a number of large crystals that reflect a natural looking light throughout the expanse. Looking back, they can see the stairs all the way up to the exit clearly. As they step onto the path, their guide gives a hand-signal and at least 4 other elves perched in nearby trees lower their bows. "Nice darkness illusion," Edwin comments. "Intruders would never see who's shooting them." They are led along a twisting path made of a tile that looks oddly similar to the tile in the mongrel-man base, except much cleaner. "Isn't this the same tile as in the last place?" Faustus mentions quietly to the group. They all look at one another thoughtfully. "So, did you guys build this down here?" Anagram asks. "This place is of elven construction, yes; though we were not the ones to build it. It's much easier to watch a single entry point than to try and keep a secure perimeter," their guide replies. "You brought all these plants down, too?" Dodge asks, "And the birds?" "Yes. A dark cave is no place to spend an extended amount of time. Besides, this feels more like... home." As they approach the elven settlement, they can see that each building is constructed with differing styles and various materials, some cobbled together haphazardly while others are rigidly architected. They are guided through the streets to the central building. A marble structure that matches the feel of the entrance to the surface. A wooden sign is glued to the wall next to the door. It reads, "Hall of Feasts" As the party is about to go in, Faustus turns to his cohort and tells her "Go out into the town, find the inns and pubs, and prepare them for my arrival in the usual way." She nods, her porcelain mask gleaming, and departs; her yellow robes trailing slightly behind her. See, the warlock picked the "minstrel" architype for Chrysanthemum, but decided to flavor her, not as a bard, but as a mysterious dancer who would garner peoples' interest in hearing of their patron, The King in Yellow, through her exotic, alien dances and poetry. "I'll be along shortly," he calls after her with a smile and a wave. The party enters the Hall of Feasts and is greeted by a long table laden with food and drink. Elves are lounging around eating and relaxing. At the head of the table is a raised platform with a big throne on it. Seated atop the throne is an elf wearing a crown. Their guide introduces them to the figure on the throne. "Tillus Thunderrider." After some greetings, the party proposes their idea to Tillus. He confirmed that they've been annoyed by the mongrel-men, and that they had noticed a source of tainted energy draining their Bright Orb, but they had not put the two together before now. I have them Parley to convince the elves to commit their own soldiers. They roll a 7-9, so they have to give the elves some additional reason to help them out. "Well," Anagram says, "Did you know they're living in an elven built labyrinth?" The party looks at him. "I'm not making it up. The stone columns, the tiled floors, all the same." All of the elves present stop eating and look at one-another questioningly. Tillus says that he would certainly authorize an elven strike-team to assist the party as long as they promised to take the Blight Orb away from their lands forever, and leave the other structure to their care. The party agrees. Rather than a direct assault, they decide to infiltrate the mongrel-men hideout under the guise of "returning victorious from destroying the elves." This would give them the perfect opportunity to strike at the hearts of the enemy stronghold, and would distract the enemy from noticing the elven incursion bringing up the rear. Tillus them offers to let them join the feast while daylight remains, since they can't go back too quickly or it would give away their ruse. He also offers to show them around town, mentioning how his "shift" is up, anyway. He passes the crown to the elf who guided them in, who places it upon his own head and takes the throne. "Lord Thornatus Nimble," one of the other elves at the table announces. The party looks at eachother oddly. "Elves are weird, guys," Edwin wispers. "This way," Tillus says, leading them out of the hall and into the city. "I talk to him a bit," Faustus says. "I wanna get to know him." He uses his creeeepy warlock abilities to attempt to discern the elf's true desires. He aces it, with a (10+). "His heart's true desire is for his homeland to be free." The whole table agrees: Interesting. They're used to elves having high castles and huge brigades of cavalry and the like. That was unexpected. I've got some serious backstory for these elves now, and I'm glad the party didn't just decide to try and murder them. The party goes to the general store. Potions are bought. Dodge asks if business is good. After all, there's only a few elves in town, and apparently not many outsiders. The shopkeeper says he hasn't had many customers in a long time. They work out a deal where dodge can distribute fliers advertising the shop, and he'll get a kickback on any purchases those people make. Faustus leans in close and asks the shopkeep if he's got anything "unusual" to sell. I have him make a Parley to see if the shopkeeper is willing to reveal his secret stash. His +1 forward from Chrysanthemum's performances in town gives him a 10, and the shopkeeper pulls out an ancient grimoire: a copy of the Necronomicon itself. The shopkeeper leans in, whispering, "It'll cost you 200 coin." Not having the money, and deciding that they still needed the help of the village, the warlock asks to put it on layaway--apparently elves have layaway (he did roll a 10+). He put 3 coin down, and the shopkeeper promised to hold it for him. They then decide to get equipped. They head to the weapon and armorsmith, and Sir Finnigan attempts to barter with the weapons he collected from the mecmechanical beasts they fought in the previous dungeon. "These are ancient Elven make," the armorsmith says, in wonder, "but my brother would know more, he's the weapomsmith. Would you like to talk to him?" "Sure," Sir Finnigan agrees. The shopkeeper says, "Let me go get him." He walks behind the shop stall, and almost immediately an identical elf comes back out. "Hi, I'm the weaponsmith." The party all look at eachother again. "Is... is that the same guy?" Anagram's player asks me. "He says he isn't." I reply. "Weird. Elves are weird." Edwin sighs, shaking his head. The weaponsmith says he'll buy the weapons and offers to pay in cash. "Well, how about I trade them for work-rendered, instead? Can you make me anything from these?" Finnigan then puts the armor plates from the beasts up on the counter. "Perhaps some specialized maile?" "Well," the weaponsmith says, "You should talk to my brother, he's the armorsmith. Let me go get him."   The armorsmith says he can make the fighter some bitchin' retracting maile if (7-9) he can get his hands on some Beltath Oil, used by the elves in ancient times. It can be aquired from a specific kind of ray found in the western sea. The fighter scratches his head in thought for a moent and says he'll try to acquire some and return. He's got an idea. Finally the party heads back to the Feasting Hall to wait out the rest of the day until nightfall when they return to the mongrel-men to put their plan in action. While feasting, one of the elven gentry present--a rather foppy chap--takes interest in Chrysanthemum's mask. Apparently wanting to be the bleeding edge of elven fashion, he asks her where she got it, and where he could get one. Never being one to miss an opportunity, Faustus forms one from thin air under the table using his otherworldly powers. He scrawls some alien glyphs on the inside with some of the King in Yellow's damning ideas, and offers it to the elf. As he goes to hand it over to him, Crysanthemum stops him, swaps it with her own and hands it to the elf. He looks at the hundreds upon hundreds of horrifying glyphs scratched on the inside of this mask, and breaks into a terrified scream for a split-second  before stopping, and without any remark about his outburst, smiles at Faustus; clearly impressed at the craftsmanship. "What do I owe you for it, friend?" The elf asks Chrysanthemum, impressed at her generosity. "Just promise to look at those glyphs each night before you go to bed," faustus replies, teeth showing. "... It will open your eyes." Grinning, he goes back to his meal. The rest of the table:  --- Coming up in Part 4, the conclusion: "A plan never survives contact with the enemy--" "--You can say that again." Tune in next time!
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Apr 24, 2013 23:46
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I love the weapon/armor brothers. It's a classic use of that kind of gag (which was done TRIPLY in Duck Soup, with two imposters and one real guy).
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Apr 25, 2013 02:15
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If anyone was on the fence about picking up some of the third party playbooks, stop that: http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/113201/Dungeon-World-Class-Bundle-2-%5BBUNDLE%5D Madadric and I have a deal for you. A half off deal, you see.
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Apr 26, 2013 06:09
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gnome7 posted:If anyone was on the fence about picking up some of the third party playbooks, stop that: http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/113201/Dungeon-World-Class-Bundle-2-%5BBUNDLE%5D Awesome! How long will this sale be going on? I'm expecting my paycheck soon, but not til next week.
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Apr 26, 2013 06:43
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InfiniteJesters posted:Awesome! Probably forever. I don't see any reason to take it down.
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Apr 26, 2013 06:48
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gnome7 posted:Probably forever. I don't see any reason to take it down. Yeah I'm thinking forever is good too! There are some great classes in here that will bring a lot of fun and flavour to your games, witch and dashing hero are instant classics. I'm really happy to include my two entries to the bundle.
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Apr 26, 2013 07:49
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Okay, phew. Finally finished reading the book, the guide, the last 86 page thread, and all of this one. Now that I've ensured (I hope) that my questions haven't already been answered, I'd like to ask for insight from the Goons! INT/WIS DD Can someone provide me with some examples of rolling Defy Danger with Intelligence? I'm struggling to think of many examples that aren't "thinking quickly and then reacting quickly with Dexterity." And are there examples of DD+WIS that aren't "withstand psychic attacks." Also, while I'm at it, how do you draw the line between DD+STR and DD+CON? How do Characters Die? Okay, I get the "be a fan of the characters" bit. But when I combine that piece of advice with all the insight on altering combat on the fly, I'm curious as to how you know when it's time to kill a PC. A scenario: A Fighter's got 2 HP left. The ogre's fist is coming down, and the fighter throws up his shield (or jumps out of the way, or whatever), and rolls. A 4. You could take away their resources, smashing his shield with the ogre's fist. Or you could do damage, rolling d10+1 (or whatever) and probably killing the fighter. In this scenario, it's really up to the GM whether the player is down a shield or down a character, correct? Hacking and Slashing Arms Off The game's incredibly descriptive. My (hypothetical) player says "I'm bringing my battle-axe down in a mighty cleaving swing, aiming for the orc's shoulder, hoping to chop his arm off like the Orc-King did to my father." The orc was prepared, blah blah blah, Hack & Slash. But H&S only allows for damage. Assuming a successful roll, do you GMs allow
Class Names I never got into the 3.X mod scene, so I'm curious. I've got a fantastic idea for a Warlock. Or a Templar. Or a Psion. What's the preferred nomenclature for distinguishing classes in the DWsphere? I'm not saying I have a warlock or templar or whatever class, but if I did, and if I wasn't interested in calling it something else, is it just by author? Obviously, some are easy: there's the Inverse World Mechanic and that other schmuck's Mechanic, but what about free-floating classes? Speaking of the Mechanic Am I wrong in thinking that having Hack & Slash, Volley, and Spout Lore all run off the same stat might be a little... Where are the d4s And on that note, is it just me or do all the classes seem to err on "more HP." Other than the Mage (which is less a totally new concept and more of a "I hate Vancian spellcasting" wizard), I don't think I've seen a d4 class damage / 4+Constitution HP class. Not to pick on anybody, but given that the psion has historically been the "psychic wizard," you'd think that one would at least be d4/4+Constitution. Am I way off here? Who Doesn't Love Palladium Games I put this under a separate heading to make it clear I'm not referring to the classes under the last heading, but reading through a lot of these custom classes, I'm getting a serious "3.X / Rifts" vibe from the whole thing. "It's like this class, but better." "It does most of what this class does, but instead of the boring parts I put in more exciting BAM!" I'm specifically thinking of the discussion of why an Improved Fighter's move couldn't be based on WIS (or INT, I can't remember), because then the fighter would suffer from Multiple Ability Dependency. I'm sorry, but what? I spend a fair amount of time on the 4E CharOp forums, I thought the idea was to get away from that. It's about the fiction first, yes? (And the fighter already has advanced moves that key off of Wisdom and Charisma.) The fiction comes before the rules, right? Just because a fighter's strong, he should be able to do something with his muskles instead of his brain and spirit? I'm not looking to reopen the fighter discussion specifically, but rather a general tenor of what class design for DW should be about. I don't mean to start off on the wrong foot, but that's definitely been my perception. Watching interviews with Sage and Adam, I feel like Dungeon World was an homage to OD&D/AD&D, and was meant to make basic characters awesome, as opposed to the 4th Edition mindset of making awesome characters disgustingly awesome. (Don't get me wrong, I've enjoyed some 4E in my time.) I say this with great respect for the work that's being done, but in the words of Linda Richman, "Discuss." DW Hacks I know it just came out, but... Other than World of Dungeons and (to a lesser extend) Planet of Dungeons, have there been any hacks of Dungeon World, or so far has it just been classes? Fulfilling Bonds Just so I'm clear, if my players feel their characters' bonds are all still relevant, and they played them to the hilt during the adventure, because they haven't been "resolved," they don't get XP, correct? Boons for Clerics Can I please get an example or two of this? I'm not entirely clear what the scope / benefit of a boon is. Hardest of the Core Classes Of the nine core classes, which are the hardest for new players to wrap their minds around? I'm going to be starting a campaign with four players, so even if I get rid of one or two, that means that the last player to pick will still get to pick from at least four classes, so I was thinking of removing some "trouble" classes. Thanks, Goon Squad. Looking forward to exploring DW with you guys.
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Apr 26, 2013 16:10
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CitizenKeen posted:INT/WIS DD When you use your brain to solve a problem with booklearnin', roll +INT. When you use your brain to solve a problem with practical experience, roll +WIS. Say you want to try taking control of the Kobold Engineer's rocket platform, you could apply your knowledge of mechanics (INT), try to copy how you saw him do it (WIS), or punch it because that always works with technology (STR). If it has a magical interfacing system, maybe you could talk with it (CHA). Maybe you need to handle an army storming through town. You could outwit them (WIS, experience with military), distract them (DEX or CHA), or you could take out a support beam on a nearby building to close their path through the alleys (STR). It all comes down to how you want to handle a problem because in the end you're Defying the same Danger, just in different ways. Separating INT and WIS into booklearning and practical experience might help to make it easier to understand, though. 4 base health is an iffy thing. Health can vanish pretty quickly in Dungeon World, but there's no frontline/backline to put the low base HP and CON characters in to prevent them from being hit. The only practical way to avoid getting in danger is to not do anything and that's boring, don't do that. It doesn't help that people like to stat up their mages with really low CON, so they can get taken out really fast. I had a Warlock in a game I was running who had piddly HP and no armor, and she could take about two hits before being ready to crumple, even with 6 base HP. 2HP might not make a huge deal, but it feels like 4 base HP should be reserved for the twiggy and squishy full on mages, though some classes made bumped that up to 6 anyways and it's probably opinion whether that's good or not. Ultimately your CON is a much bigger decider of your actual HP pool, but the 6 point difference between mages and fighters is still a pretty big deal. As for d4 damage, it just kinda sucks to be worthless at hitting things. Unless you've got another way to hit things like an attack spell or a H&S/Volley replacement like Black Magic, it sucks to be stuck with the lowest damage, and not just because it's one average damage less than a d6. When you know you've got the lowest possible damage, you'll probably never use it. A d4 is incredibly unsatisfying to roll. Being the absolute worst at something isn't fun, it's better knowing that there's at least something worse than you at something. Being a flat out healbot is terrible, though thankfully impossible due to the basic moves. The only classes that have d4 damage have ways to make that better, and they only have d4 damage to push them towards doing those things instead. d4 damage on a class that deals damage with their damage die would suck. As for problem classes, the Druid is probably the biggest offender, but it's also probably the most fun class in the book and you should learn how it works instead of banning it. New players also might have trouble with the Thief because they might expect Stealth as a move and feel cheated when you tell them it's just Defy Danger +DEX like anyone else (the distinction is how easy it is to trigger it, as an armored fighter cannot sneak around and do backflips), but otherwise the hardest it gets would probably be explaining when Backstab is an option. Everything else is varying degrees of easy to grasp, given the game being designed for that, and at worst you might just get people who end up not liking the class they chose. CitizenKeen posted:Hacking and Slashing Arms Off The player didn't only trigger H&S though. They're trying to straight up use brute force and tear that thing's arm off, and that sounds like Defy Danger STR to me. You'd still deal your damage on a success because you just tore that fucker open, but the consequences can be different. Maybe you only got it through part-way and your weapon's now stuck in his shoulder. Maybe you took out a chunk of his armor instead. Maybe you got his arm, but now you've got his dagger in your own arm. Maybe you rolled a 6- and just done goofed. Alternately, the weapon the character is using has the messy tag, in which case this would be H&S and you'd use the messy tag to rip open the orc's arm with the swing. But, if you're just trying to get more out of an attack than damage and applying your tags, you should use a move that does this (i.e. Called Shot) or Defy Danger. If it's in place of a +STR H&S roll anyways it's not like you're getting a negative to it. And for class names, just name them whatever. There's probably someone somewhere who's brewed up a Warlock that isn't anything like Mikan's. I don't think anyone's going to care all that much, especically if you're not trying to sell the class.
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Apr 26, 2013 16:57
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CitizenKeen posted:Okay, phew. Finally finished reading the book, the guide, the last 86 page thread, and all of this one. Now that I've ensured (I hope) that my questions haven't already been answered, I'd like to ask for insight from the Goons! Roll DD INT if your character is faced with a riddle and you, the player, are drawing blanks. Roll DD WIS to figure out if someone's lying, or when looking for something specific. My friend rolled INT to make sure that when making explosives he'd get the mixture right, I rolled WIS when crossing a rickety bridge to figure out exactly where to step to not fall through. Of the core classes, the person who found the game hardest in my group of new players was the one playing the wizard, mostly because it was a bit to keep track of and we were all using one laptop. Also: a note on d4 damage: few classes probably have it because it's not fun to roll max damage only for a DM to say "sorry, his armor takes all of it". Damage dice aren't really how strong you are, they just reflect how badly you can gently caress someone up with an attack, and it's never very fun to have a seasoned adventurer give an orc a limp-wristed slap. KillerQueen fucked around with this message at 17:06 on Apr 26, 2013 |
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Apr 26, 2013 17:03
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So after running a butt-load more sessions and setting the idea up in a slightly more substantial way, here is a follow up regarding the monster rules I have started implementing. The original post is linked in the OP, but HERE it is again for the lazy. I've started calling them The Improved Monster Creation Rules, because I'm toying with the idea of writing them up and sticking them on DTRPG. I won't put a whole load up, just some favorites as I currently have them in my Dungeon World file. I realize that most of this won't be anything particularly revolutionary for lots of DMs, but I've found it really does improve my game. Just having some level of consistency to monsters makes the world feel far more credible, monsters react differently in different situations, and my players have started to pick up on how the monsters feel different from other games they have played. I also changed a lot of the instincts to be more combat based, as some (the skeleton's instinct to reenact what the body did in life for example) were just never used at my table. Even in a rp-heavy game, some monsters are just there to be fodder. I also tend to shift 'Special Qualities' to be out-of-combat or flavour based tips for roleplaying monsters. So things like regeneration are now represented as a move, things like 'reclusive' are now special qualities, and things like 'can take a wolf form' are likely to be both. Firstly, as a contrast, Kobolds and Goblins. There was a discussion in the D&DNext thread a few days ago about how well the 4e monster rules worked for these, because they created two very different monsters. In other versions of D&D, and in my experience Dungeon World, the two tend to be very very similar. I started by looking at what the rulebook said about them VS the rules they actually used. The fluff regarding kobolds mentions that if you see one there are likely to be more, but this wasn't represented in the rules other than them appearing as a horde. Goblins on the other hand had a rule stating that one move was to call more goblins to play. I thought about what I like about kobolds and goblins personally, and amplified the contrast. With the Improved Monster Creation Rules, here's how they come out. Kobold Horde, Small, Stealthy, Intelligent, Organized Spear (d6 damage) 3 HP 1 Armor Close, Reach Special Qualities: Dragon worshiping, hateful. Instinct: To avoid direct confrontation. -When surprised: Retreat to a trapped area. -When secretly aware of an enemy presence: Plant traps, and act oblivious to their presence. -When a player is left vulnerable: Thrust with spear and then retreat up walls, into shadows, around corners, etc. -When left alone: Plant a trap. -When heavily injured: Call more kobolds or make threats regarding a powerful dragon master. -When cornered: Panic and lash out until a path of retreat is established. Goblin Horde, Small, Intelligent, Organized Spear (d6 damage) 3 HP 1 Armor Close, Reach Special Qualities: Boisterous Instinct: To Battle using 'taktix' -When alone: Sing songs of goblin victory, squabble, play-fight. -When attacked: Charge headfirst into battle, ignoring risk. -When left alone: Attack from behind! -When heavily injured: Fall back behind more able bodied brothers! -When cornered: Battlecry and charge again! Another one of the first monsters I looked at was the troll. I love trolls in everything and they're pretty much my go to boss monster for low level elf games. I took things I liked, cut things I didn't (I don't think elemental weaknesses work well in Dungeon World games - especially something like fire. You can do some cool set pieces with people using torches to burn a monster as allies attack, but without specifically telling a party "this monster is weak against fire", most are never going to end up using fire on it). Improved Monster Rule troll looks like this: Troll Solitary, Large Club (d10+3 damage) 20 HP 1 Armor Close, Reach, Forceful Special Qualities: Tactless Instinct: To crush all things to dust! -When you reach 10 HP: Fly into a vicious rage (Add an additional point of armor) -When you reach critical HP: Lose body parts (arms, legs, eyes, etc.) but continue to fight regardless, spurred on by your rage. -When a player is open to attack: PUNISH THEM! -When a player has a shield or powerful weapon: Disarm them, then follow up immediately in a way that makes them defy danger. -When on the back foot: Showcase your strength in non-combat ways (beat chest, smash rocks, stamp feet and shake the ground) -When around dead bodies of any kind: devour them. And two more, just because I like them. Vampire Group, Stealthy, Organized, Intelligent Supernatural force (d8+5 damage, 1 piercing) 10 HP 2 Armor Close, Forceful Special Qualities: Limited Shape-shifting, aloft Instinct: To reap the benefits of vampiricism. -When first encountered: Offer warning that mere mortals should not dare stand against you. -When first attacked, regardless of outcome: Whisper dark warnings and MARK your attacker. -When isolated or reduced to one: Charm your MARK, forcing them to attack one of their allies. -When near death: Attack nearest creature (friend or foe) and feverishly feed on their blood (regain 2HP) -When left alone: Fly, turn to mist, turn to shadow, turn to bats, cackle menacingly. -When reduced to 1HP: Feign death, turn to ash and wait for a chance to strike unexpectedly. -When killed: Turn to ash. Cockatrice Group, Small, Hoarder Beak (d8 damage) 6 HP 1 Armor Close Special Qualities: Reclusive Instinct: Turn to stone -When first encountered: Emit a terrifying scream and force players to (Defy+ WIS or CON) or become momentarily overcome with fear. -After successfully attacking an enemy: Burrow or slither away and hide until enemy turns their attention to another cockatrice. -When attacked: Stare at attacker and begin slowly turning them to stone. -When slain: Burst into flames and issue a final scream that halts and reverses the petrification process. -When group is reduced to one: Offer hoarded riches in return for your life. This can be done vocally, or if you prefer, through gesture. Would anyone be interested if I put monster manuals of this stuff up on DTRPG? Would people pay cash money? If so, how much?
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Apr 26, 2013 17:29
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Does anyone know if there's an easy, inexpesive way to get the physical Dungeon World book in Australia? Indie Press Revolution want $25 + $18.20 shipping + $1.20 handling = $44.40 to ship it to me, and they'll only take paypal, which I don't use and won't sign up for just for this, and none of the game stores in Melbourne carry it, and I can't find it online in any of the usual places I would look to buy a book.
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Apr 26, 2013 17:37
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Nope; IPR is the only place selling print. Either find someone to buy from IPR and suck shipping or convince one of your FLGSes to order it for you (in which case the price won't be much lower). 
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Apr 26, 2013 17:40
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I'll just buy the PDF from drivethru. If IPR would take a bank transfer or credit card, I'd happily pay for the book and shipping since I'm quite used to awful local prices and shipping charges. Expecting everyone who wants a hardcopy to have paypal is dumb as hell though.
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Apr 26, 2013 17:55
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AlphaDog posted:I'll just buy the PDF from drivethru. PayPal is kinda the standard for online business that's too small to make a direct set-up with the credit card companies. Getting upset about PayPal required is akin to getting upset that your TV requires alternating current.
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Apr 26, 2013 17:58
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Seems pretty cool, but I haven't done a lot with Dungeon World yet.
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Apr 26, 2013 18:05
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sentrygun and Killer Queen posted:Defy Danger + INT/WIS advice. sentrygun posted:4 base health is an iffy thing. Health can vanish pretty quickly in Dungeon World, but there's no frontline/backline to put the low base HP and CON characters in to prevent them from being hit. The only practical way to avoid getting in danger is to not do anything and that's boring, don't do that. It doesn't help that people like to stat up their mages with really low CON, so they can get taken out really fast. I had a Warlock in a game I was running who had piddly HP and no armor, and she could take about two hits before being ready to crumple, even with 6 base HP. 2HP might not make a huge deal, but it feels like 4 base HP should be reserved for the twiggy and squishy full on mages, though some classes made bumped that up to 6 anyways and it's probably opinion whether that's good or not. Ultimately your CON is a much bigger decider of your actual HP pool, but the 6 point difference between mages and fighters is still a pretty big deal. sentrygun posted:As for problem classes, the Druid is probably the biggest offender, but it's also probably the most fun class in the book and you should learn how it works instead of banning it. New players also might have trouble with the Thief because they might expect Stealth as a move and feel cheated when you tell them it's just Defy Danger +DEX like anyone else (the distinction is how easy it is to trigger it, as an armored fighter cannot sneak around and do backflips), but otherwise the hardest it gets would probably be explaining when Backstab is an option. Everything else is varying degrees of easy to grasp, given the game being designed for that, and at worst you might just get people who end up not liking the class they chose. sentrygun posted:And for class names, just name them whatever. There's probably someone somewhere who's brewed up a Warlock that isn't anything like Mikan's. I don't think anyone's going to care all that much, especically if you're not trying to sell the class. Good to know, though I am planning on selling a playbook or six. I've got my inkscape template set up for each stat, and have drafted five playbooks, but I'm not prone to theorycrafting as a group exercise, so I'm going to play the game and playtest the 'books before sharing. Much appreciated, thank you!
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Apr 26, 2013 18:09
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So, fun fact, I hate multiclassing. I’m also not thrilled about the prospect of creating a new class every time a player says they want to play an arcane archer, or what not. As such, I had an idea, something I thought I’d run by the Goons. Mindful that I haven’t played the game yet, though I’ve got about sixteen years of elf game experience. I’m not actually interested in drumming up the moves, because I haven’t played, but more working on a broad template for a minor (major?) rules change. One game I love is Legend, which if you haven’t played and you like 3.X, well, you’re doing yourself a disservice. I don’t particularly care for 3.X, but I like the ideas that Legend presents. The general principle is half-classes (or in Legend’s case, third-classes). I was thinking that you could break a lot of classes down in half. Let’s call them hybrid classes. Some examples would include (with terribly generic names):
But it allows for a lot of options. Arcane Archer? Evoker+Archer. Spellsword? Swordsman+Evoker. Engineer? Defender+Utility Belt, or Utility Belt+Petmaster. Geomancer? Evoker+Petmaster. Priest? Divine+Scholar. Shaman? Petmaster + Cleric-Caster. Your player wants to play Conan the Librarian? Defender+Scholar. Again, it requires a little player maturity and creativity with regards to skinning, but it opens up a lot of options. Each hybrid class would have two starting moves, five advanced and five expert. Each hybrid would have a HP base and a damage die – you pick one from each. Each hybrid would have one option for starting weapon/apparel/gear, pick one (either all from one hybrid, or one from one and two from the other). If it’s key to the hybrid class (like the utility belt), then it would have a robust set of starting options. Again, it's not going to hit everybody's niche. But assuming we leave Adventurer and Sneak together, and leave Berserker and Druid out of the equation (for now), that still leaves 45 possible combinations. And making "new" hybrids is easier than making new full classes. If you think of a cool niche that's a little bigger than a CC, but you're not sure you can really build an entire 25 moves that are both narrow and broad, you can do a hybrid. Maybe you want a death theme. You add an Necrotic hybrid. Defender or Swordsman + Necrotic = Deathknight (just spitballing here). Evoker + Necrotic = Necromancer. Necrotic + Petmaster = Demonist. Necrotic + Scholar = Warlock. Thoughts?
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Apr 26, 2013 18:39
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That sounds like a lot of work when you could just Multiclass, or better yet, just reflavor the class. Does someone want to be an Arcane Archer? Give them the Ranger or Marksman or what have you and ask them about how each move works. Is your bow a cool spell you've etched into a scroll that, when activated, turns into a wicked sweet greatbow made of cool magic crystal? Maybe you don't have a bow at all and you just cast hexes that you've written into a tome and pull out rune by rune to use, tweaked with special power when you want to use a Called Shot. Maybe you tie scrolls to your arrows to shoot and trigger their effects. Maybe you're straight outta Gauntlet and throw swords at everything. Go hog wild! Alternately, just let them spend an advance on Cast a Spell and now they can cast magic complete with a trigger. It's that easy; so easy that you can allow every class to multiclass as if they had Multiclass Dabbler in their 2-5 and 6-10 advances if you want and you won't break any kind of balance. Multiclassing is a mess in most systems, but all it means in Dungeon World is deciding to take something else. So long as you don't take either of the spell lists there's absolutely nothing changing how the move you pick works, and it's not too hard to handle the spell list level exception. The point of a class is to give you a handful of mechanical triggers and a baseline for how you do the cool things you do. Mixing and matching them up like puzzle pieces sounds terrible: you'll split up what makes each class distinct and cool! If a class doesn't feel cool enough for a player, either it's not the class for them or the class isn't as cool as other classes and needs tweaking itself. Multiclassing gives you a chance to dip into other classes and grab a cool thing, but it can get iffy if you grab another player's cool thing because now you've got all your cool stuff AND you step on their toes, and nobody wants to be overshadowed like that. This is why I'm not a big fan of multiclassing myself, but I can just talk with the other players to make sure we all keep our distinct cool things. Ultimately, what I think is most important is how you describe the cool things you do. If a player keeps doing a cool thing a certain way, write them a move for that and encourage them to do that cool thing because it's fun to do. Don't cobble a bunch of half-ideas together and try to make them work, get a full idea and go overboard with it. You don't have to be a Wood Elf Ranger with his plain wolf companion, you can be a Necromancer who summons skeletons to his aid and uses his 'quiver' full of hexes to nail targets and seeking rituals to track down his prey. You're still a Ranger and use the mechanics exactly the same way between the two, but they're very different flavor-wise and even have different potential for triggering moves just because of the fiction behind the character!
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Apr 26, 2013 19:03
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Also, since I've seen a lot of discussion about where to pick up the book, wanted to let people know that if you buy the book via your FLGS, Sage and Adam will email you a PDF, gratis.
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Apr 26, 2013 19:13
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My FLGS is apparently incapable of ordering a copy. Is there anyone I should put them in contact with?
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Apr 26, 2013 19:18
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jivjov posted:My FLGS is apparently incapable of ordering a copy. Is there anyone I should put them in contact with? No idea (god bless my FLGS - Rainy Day Games!). Sage and Adam appear to be active on the official forums and G+, you could ask there (they answered my question about getting the PDF within minutes of my tagging them in G+).
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Apr 26, 2013 19:23
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CitizenKeen posted:How do Characters Die? Character death is in the GM's hands most of the time, but the players have a lot of control too. They decide what their character does, which triggers moves that could more easily put them in danger (Hack&Slash 7-9) or leave the GM room for a softer move. If a fighter with 2HP left insists on Hack&Slash he is really risking death. Either way you might want to give him a Debility or something less permanent than death. Most monsters have non-damaging moves too; aboleths can do their 'invade a mind' instead of a tentacle attack for damage in response to a 7-9 Hack&Slash. As for when you should actually kill them? You will know. If the characters played up all the bonds, they probably did fulfill one. If they have a bond like "Ragnar is great in battle" and it turned out that yep, he was pretty great, then the new bond could be "Ragnar is my sworn Shield Brother, I will never betray him." Old bonds evolve, relationships strengthen or weaken. Druid is the hardest core class. Shapeshifting is a purely imaginative thing and uses Hold which is hard for a newbie/D&D player to get. Plus it takes GM input on all the animal moves. Once a player wraps his head around the class they are pretty fun.
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Apr 26, 2013 19:24
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ritorix posted:Stuff. Thanks for the insight. Regarding bonds, that's a good explanation, I like it. I'm thinking I might just leave all the classes in - most of my players are coming from Savage Worlds, which has Bennies, so the idea of hold probably isn't that foreign - I'll give them some poker chips, and they'll spend them to be awesome.
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Apr 26, 2013 19:39
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CitizenKeen posted:Who Doesn't Love Palladium Games No one else has really addressed this, so I will first. I realize this isn't really about the Fighter, per se, but we'll go ahead and use the Fighter as an example. With the stat distribution in the rules, you're going to get +2, +1 (which can become a +2 pretty quickly), +1, +0, +0, -1. The class moves are intended to reflect the class's role in the game, yeah? So the Fighter, naturally, gets a big weapon, is going to be hacking and slashing a lot, and probably needs to take a lot of hits. You're going to put the +2 into Str (or Dex if you're an Elf) and, since many of your other moves use +Con and you'll be in the fray and getting hit a lot, you'll put one of the +1s into Con. From that point, you'll decide what you want to prioritize, but you're going to end up fairly average at a few things and on the crappy side at one. Now, that's fine - no one has to be good at everything and it would be broken if they were, but to my mind the moves are supposed to be building on the class's core concept. They're there to be used. They should be something that, reasonably, are intended to work with most builds. If they key off of stats that are not optimal, they are less likely to get used. Keep in mind that this isn't 3.5 or 4e. In those, a failure on a task may worsen the situation, but it may simply represent no change of state. In Dungeon World this is explicitly not the case and a failure can always make things worse for you or others by triggering a hard move. And that's okay. 7-9 and misses are where the game gets creative, after all, and they create drama. Sometimes the dumb guy has to try to think his way out of a problem and that's fine. But when you're building a special bonus move that you want people to take and regularly use, it seems to me to be bad design to create something that only a few specific builds are going to be able to do that with, and which for the others would be useless at best or actively detrimental to the entire party at worst. In 3e terms, that's like making a move out of Toughness. Why not focus on the stuff you know the class should/will be doing? The fighter who chooses to prioritize Int still gets good use out of Spout Lore or Defy Danger (Int), and can multiclass to pick up some other Int moves. I do get the idea that things like replacement stat moves can broaden the class's power too much, and that is a legitimate concern. I'm personally in favor of moves like that, but only if their trigger is quite specific or if the class has some other mitigating factor built in. For example, the Fighter's Interrogate move makes perfect sense to me and seems like a good move - Str for a Parley, but only when you're being a thug. It fits, and is something the Fighter should reasonably be able to do. This is all just my opinion based on what I've gone through trying to come up with playbooks, though, I don't think this is exactly a precise science. That Rough Beast fucked around with this message at 20:15 on Apr 26, 2013 |
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Apr 26, 2013 20:12
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