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spunkshui posted:How the hell does someone write (and source) the insane amount of papers required to have a degree in English and then not understand how to site a book title? Same way someone makes fun of another person's English skills while saying "site" instead of "cite" in the same sentence?
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Apr 23, 2013 18:14
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Benny please post a picture of yourself in your interview costume so I can mentally replace the image of Angus in his grandfather's purple tuxedo.
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Apr 23, 2013 18:29
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Dude mentions his English degree and suddenly goons go hog wild correcting grammar mistakes on every page. Who cares, ignore them, it isn't funny to point out any more.
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Apr 23, 2013 18:49
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Benny the Snake posted:Well I'm here on campus for the Spring Quarter Career Fair. Here's the shortlist I'm printing out twenty copies of my resume and plan on passing out each and every one. I learned my mistake from the last career fair in that I have to check my biases at the door and give resumes to anything that I might have a chance at. As per kimbo305's request, I'll put post the hours of the day later on tonight. In hindsight, I really should've posted my resume here. I've had five or six different people look at it, including the career center, my academic adviser, and a few goons. I'm confident it looks good. Now we know who to blame! Seriously though, who told you to print out 20 copies of your resume and hand them out like business cards?! Was this something you came up with on your own? Nobody is gonna hire you, if they see you walking around, "Resume for you! And a resume for you! And Oh, Hi! Pleased to meet ya! Here's my resume! Yes, yes, nice day outside, huh? Have a resume!" Collect business cards and send them a tailored version of your resume. You wanna be tailoring your resume accordingly to the job description. MassaShowtime posted:Benny, you should move in with that dude captain walker. Then put that poo poo on youtube. thanks. Walker has a job he's been able to down for more than 2 days. Benny would just drag him down. Jeffrey posted:Dude mentions his English degree and suddenly goons go hog wild correcting grammar mistakes on every page. Who cares, ignore them, it isn't funny to point out any more. It's indicative of the thread. The OP assumes some sort of "baseline" level of effort and sticks to it, no matter what. No matter how many times someone insults his grammar, he still refuses to right click on the red, underlined text and select the proper version. No matter how many times he gets rejected, jobs don't work out, etc. He still refuses to put in a full day. See: Those who have posted about how what he plans on doing should only take a couple hours and he shouldn't chalk a few small tasks up to a full time day of work. There's no bootstraps for bootstraps. cname fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Apr 23, 2013 |
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Apr 23, 2013 19:03
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I agree that an email resume *with a customized cover letter for the employer* is the way to go. Paper resumes are much more of a nuisance for the employer to deal with.
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Apr 23, 2013 19:10
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Arsenic Lupin posted:I agree that an email resume *with a customized cover letter for the employer* is the way to go. Paper resumes are much more of a nuisance for the employer to deal with. Agreed. People who are trying to find a job in a specific field can get away with doling out resumes left and right, provided they're at a job fair/meetup/convention, which is largely focused on said area of expertise. Benny is looking for a job. Any job. Chances are, no two openings are alike, have the same general requirements, etc. It would be silly to submit an "English Degree/Looking to become a writer" based resume to the home & garden section of the Home Depot. (You can bet your rear end that Benny is doing this, regardless and will continue to, despite this advice.) Benny, can we see a cover letter? If you don't have one, type one up, right now and submit it. Shouldn't be hard for an English degree haver/literature wizard. cname fucked around with this message at 19:22 on Apr 23, 2013 |
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Apr 23, 2013 19:18
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Just to belabor the point: it's great that the career center and goons have vetted your résumé. But now you need to customize it for every job you send out.
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Apr 23, 2013 19:23
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Arsenic Lupin posted:I agree that an email resume *with a customized cover letter for the employer* is the way to go. Paper resumes are much more of a nuisance for the employer to deal with. Generally speaking, yes, but at my university, it was specifically requested that students bring paper resumes to hand out at the school's job fairs, and that's what the employers expected. It isn't great to walk in empty handed and just collect business cards if all of the other attendees brought resumes or letters or portfolios or whatever with them. If that's the instruction that Benny's been given, then the best approach would probably have been to put together a few different versions of his resume in advance, which are tailored to the different types of jobs available. He should know in advance which employers will be attending and have a general idea of what each of them want from an applicant. If he does this, he should still collect business cards and follow up with each contact within a couple days. Send them an email thanking them for their time, and include some cover letter content explaining why you're a good fit for the available positions. (EDIT: and for the love of God, do not type up a generic message and send it to every contact. Start from scratch with each employer.) PurePerfection fucked around with this message at 19:32 on Apr 23, 2013 |
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Apr 23, 2013 19:27
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PurePerfection posted:Generally speaking, yes, but at my university, it was specifically requested that students bring paper resumes to hand out at the school's job fairs, and that's what the employers expected. It isn't great to walk in empty handed and just collect business cards if all of the other attendees brought resumes or letters or portfolios or whatever with them. Benny, this is the best advice your gonna get, in this thread. Career fairs are no longer, "I'll go to the job fair, meet some people, learn about a few positions that are open, hear about some companies, go home, sleep on it, decide which ones I could see myself in and apply to those, with the same resume and cover letter!" It's tough poo poo in the job market. People are going to job fairs to gently caress poo poo up and be sure that twerps like you are swatted away like fruit flies. People are going in, having already researched the entirety of certain companies hosting informational booths. They've already tailored resumes and perhaps already contacted someone within the company, so they can name-drop. It's almost like your outside, pounding on the door, shouting and screaming for someone to let you in, while others are taking the effort to find a way they can weasel inside, making as little noise as possible. I just hired a candidate for the company I work for. I chose him, because he pretty much took it upon himself to start working for us, regardless of how the interview went. He tested our product, hosed around with it and came to the interview with a list of questions, things he would suggest to improve the product and solutions to a few discrepancies, within the interface. It's almost like he could have barged into a meeting and provided us with decent contributions. cname fucked around with this message at 19:42 on Apr 23, 2013 |
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Apr 23, 2013 19:38
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Benny the Snake posted:I learned my mistake from the last career fair in that I have to check my biases at the door and give resumes to anything that I might have a chance at. Last time I went to a career fair I wound up bored because the vast majority of it was skilled/degree requiring stuff, but my girlfriend with most of an IT degree had driven together, so I still spent some time chatting with everyone there for the experience. At least half of the people I talked to took my resume after I offered it, and said something to the effect of "I don't think we'll have anything for you but we can keep your resume on file in case anything pops up." While I get the feeling that most of this was just them being nice, especially with the degree that you have if you have any social skills you can probably make a decent enough impression on them and achieve the same, and maybe get a job that you otherwise wouldn't have. Hell, worst case scenario is that you waste what will probably be a literal minute or two of your time. Jeffrey posted:Dude mentions his English degree and suddenly goons go hog wild correcting grammar mistakes on every page. Who cares, ignore them, it isn't funny to point out any more. Nothing about this thread is funny 
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Apr 23, 2013 19:41
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cname posted:It's tough poo poo in the job market. People are going to job fairs to gently caress poo poo up and be sure that twerps like you are swatted away like fruit flies. People are going in, having already researched the entirety of certain companies hosting informational booths. They've already tailored resumes and perhaps already contacted someone within the company, so they can name-drop. Indeed. I went to a very competitive school where job fairs were primarily attended by investment banks, consultancies, and extremely popular tech companies, and the amount of research and preparation students did before the fair was absolutely insane. They tracked down alumni they knew at each firm, called them up, and asked for information about who'd be attending the event, what they were looking for, what kind of positions were available, how that alum got their own foot in the door, etc. They drafted individual resumes (and talking points, anecdotes, and news items to bring up) for EVERY COMPANY relevant to their field and had them professionally printed on that thick, fancy paper, and they carried them in slick-looking black portfolios, along with notes about each employer. They knew every application requirement and deadline in advance, so they didn't waste valuable face time addressing administrative issues. They devised strategies to maximize the utility of every minute of the job fair - the order in which they'd visit each table (taking into account the probability of a long line, whether any of the recruiters were likely to leave early or stay late based on past job fairs, the amount of face time they were likely to get before having to step aside for the next candidate), the talking points they wanted to hit in their brief conversations with employers, and so on. They followed up with every single contact ASAP with a personalized message and a cover letter hitting all of the key points they weren't able to make at the event. They included thoughtful details to jog the recipient's memory (remember, these recruiters see dozens of people at a time, and only for a few minutes each) - bringing up something unique that they discussed or a joke they shared at the fair. They followed up again closer to the application deadline with a phone call. I've seen this from both sides - as a student applying for banking jobs, and as a banking analyst sent back to campus during recruiting season. Someone who does the bare minimum - such as showing up at the right place and time with a strong but generic resume - does not stand out, and rarely gets an offer, because there is ALWAYS someone who clearly put in more effort. In this economy, that's true of most jobs, not just those in fields like investment banking that have always been highly selective. The ones who are able to strike a balance between constantly pestering the employer and failing to demonstrate their dedication usually get rewarded. What you need to keep in mind is that failure to get a job doesn't always mean you hosed up big time or said the wrong thing or didn't have the right qualifications. More often, it means that you just didn't do enough to differentiate yourself. PurePerfection fucked around with this message at 21:07 on Apr 23, 2013 |
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Apr 23, 2013 20:02
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Woo! I did good today. I passed out a little over thirty resumes-most to retail places, a few tutoring places, and all the insurance booths I could find. At every booth, I said hi, asked what major they were looking in to, and asked what positions were open. Then I'd pass them my resume and ask if they had any questions. I would emphasize my intern experience and tell them that my primary tasks of voter outreach, data entry, and intern leadership would translate perfectly into their given position. Step to is following up: I'm going to apply online to each and every place. I feel so good. EDIT: I'll work around to posting my cover letter in a bit. First, I need to apply online.
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Apr 23, 2013 21:16
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Benny, Look up 1 post at PurePerfection's post. The contrast is seriously depressing. You're the equivalent of a window shopper (vs someone looking to place a bulk order) at a career fair. Seriously man, I'm not trying to grind you to dust over the internet, or poo poo all over you. You've posted (maybe) 1 proactive/forward thinking decision, in this thread, so far. Something about researching spring fashion, prior to your interview at Hollister. THATS IT! Aside from that, you have done nothing proactive or anything considered even remotely "above the norm." Even if you don't know how, you haven't even bothered to ask "What more could I be doing?" or "How could I better prepare for this?" Not that you even need to ask. Various posters (including myself) have been telling you this, yet you've been totally ignoring all advice relevant to sticking your head up above the massive crowd. cname fucked around with this message at 21:26 on Apr 23, 2013 |
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Apr 23, 2013 21:20
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cname posted:Look up 1 post at PurePerfection's post. The contrast is seriously depressing. You're the equivalent of a window shopper (vs someone looking to place a bulk order) at a career fair. Benny's looking for a lovely retail job, not a job with "investment banks, consultancies, and extremely popular tech companies," cut him some slack. If he was the kind of person who put that much passion and effort into his life this thread never would have been required, since he would have gone to a decent school and taken a marketable major.
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Apr 23, 2013 21:24
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Benny the Snake posted:all the insurance booths I could find I wouldn't expect much out of the "if you can qualify for a state insurance certification you're hired! because our entire business model is based around commissioned sales and we don't have to pay you anything unless you sell."
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Apr 23, 2013 21:25
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Shark Attack! posted:Benny's looking for a lovely retail job, not a job with "investment banks, consultancies, and extremely popular tech companies," cut him some slack. If he was the kind of person who put that much passion and effort into his life this thread never would have been required, since he would have gone to a decent school and taken a marketable major. I'm not making GBS threads on him over the fact that he isn't doing what potential, investment bankers are doing in order to secure a job. I'm going crazy, because... Ok, think about it like this... You ever been to a concert when the lead singer asks one lucky fan to get up on stage, or something like that? Everyone goes completely rip-poo poo. People are jumping around, screaming, chanting, waving their hands, doing everything it takes to get noticed. People in the back push their way to the front so they can be noticed with the others who are already in front. Benny is basically standing in the middle of the crowd, hands in pockets, muttering "mmmm pick me... pick me, I guess." I'd be totally proud of him if he did the job-search equivalent of "wave your right hand around, for 3 seconds while jumping up and down, twice." cname fucked around with this message at 21:41 on Apr 23, 2013 |
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Apr 23, 2013 21:33
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I think the real problem is that ... he thinks he is.
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Apr 23, 2013 21:42
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cname posted:I'm not making GBS threads on him over the fact that he isn't doing what potential, investment bankers are doing in order to secure a job. I'm going crazy, because... Ok, think about it like this... Exactly my point. Rabid, money-hungry future Wall Street hotshots (who aren't legacy/nepotism shoe-ins at a major firm) are at one extreme when it comes to time and effort spent on networking and job hunting. Benny is hovering around the opposite extreme right now. He's not quite as close to the edge as he was when this thread started, but he's pretty damned close. Keep in mind, Benny, that the ambitious folks from my story did all of that prep work while balancing a full-time university course load, a slew of extracurricular activities, part-time jobs, and active social lives.. In many ways, your lack of gainful employment since graduating is a liability - the bigger that gap between positions gets, the harder it is to climb out of the hole. However, this is one aspect in which the amount of free time you have is a big competitive advantage. If one of the hyper-competitive would-be bankers were blessed with several weeks off before a big job fair, just imagine how much more they would have done...
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Apr 23, 2013 21:50
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Either you dudes are wildly overstating the state of the job market or I should thank my lucky stars every single day that I am employed, because jesus christ your metaphors are comically extreme
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Apr 23, 2013 21:53
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toby posted:Either you dudes are wildly overstating the state of the job market or I should thank my lucky stars every single day that I am employed, because jesus christ your metaphors are comically extreme Well. We do have people who have been unemployed for years and are still trying. Things are bad, but they aren't entirely hopeless. I wonder if Benny's set up a LinkedIn profile yet?
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Apr 23, 2013 21:58
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So...did you call Goodwill or the Department of Labor or United Way yet? Why or why not? When will you call, if you haven't already?
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Apr 23, 2013 22:00
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Benny the Snake posted:At every booth, I said hi, asked what major they were looking in to, and asked what positions were open. Then I'd pass them my resume and ask if they had any questions. I would emphasize my intern experience and tell them that my primary tasks of voter outreach, data entry, and intern leadership would translate perfectly into their given position. Step to is following up: I'm going to apply online to each and every place. I feel so good. Why didn't you ask about the company or what the postion entails? It honestly sounds like you just went up, asked what positions were open, and passed out your resume like you're some kind of hot commodity. You: Hi. What positions are you hiring for? Them: Hi. We're look for some data entry clerks. *You hand over resume. You: Any questions? I was an intern who did data entry for four months once. 
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Apr 23, 2013 22:01
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Most job fairs I've seen are populated by companies that are either 1) Looking to recruit for actual professional positions (none of which Benny is qualified for) or 2) Looking to mass-recruit for commission-based salesmen Neither of these are going to be a win in this case. If you're qualified for and looking for retail, food service, or dirt-moving jobs, a job fair is a waste of time.
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Apr 23, 2013 22:03
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toby posted:Either you dudes are wildly overstating the state of the job market or I should thank my lucky stars every single day that I am employed, because jesus christ your metaphors are comically extreme I'm sure it varies wildly based on geographic location and experience and education and whatnot. Here, we have a university graduate in a not-particularly-metropolitan part of California with student loans, an unmarketable degree and minimal work history who can't get a minimum-wage burger-flipping gig at McDonald's. I think it's safe to say that his situation is probably more severe than yours.
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Apr 23, 2013 22:03
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Well yes but there's "worse than my situation" and "will not get hired at a job fair because he isn't stalking the employers like wounded prey." I'm not even saying it isn't that bad for him, maybe it is! It just seems nuts to me.
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Apr 23, 2013 22:07
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toby posted:Either you dudes are wildly overstating the state of the job market or I should thank my lucky stars every single day that I am employed, because jesus christ your metaphors are comically extreme Getting a lovely job can be pretty hard right now unless you know someone who has some degree of authority to either hire or put in a strong word of faith for you. Especially without a car, his options are going to be pretty limited. Man, now that I'm thinking about it, are you applying to places like Wal-Mart or Meijer? The Meijer website's set up pretty well for sending out mass-applications, and months later I'm getting calls back even though I found a position a while ago. How about bank teller positions? Any receptionist/administrative positions on Craigslist? I'm just spitballing but these places will hire pretty much anyone who can sound somewhat respectable on the phone/in person. reflex posted:Why didn't you ask about the company or what the postion entails? It honestly sounds like you just went up, asked what positions were open, and passed out your resume like you're some kind of hot commodity. Yeah I got this as well. The entire point of a job fair is that you get people that you can talk to in person, and you know for a fact that they're looking to hire. They also know they have the pick of the litter, so you have to show to them (or pretend) that you are that pick. Especially for the kind of jobs you're looking at, customer interaction is key, and "hi i'd be good at your job here's my resume ok bye" doesn't really cut it. Death Bot fucked around with this message at 22:11 on Apr 23, 2013 |
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Apr 23, 2013 22:07
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Someone mentioned it but: Benny do you have a linkedin account, a monster.com resume, etc etc?
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Apr 23, 2013 22:08
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Benny did you happen to make any friends during school? 90% of my friends from school have or currently works with someone we went to school with. We all have arts degrees too! Hell, start Facebook messaging everyone you went to school with. Grandpas a Racist posted:romanticism 
reflex fucked around with this message at 22:13 on Apr 23, 2013 |
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Apr 23, 2013 22:09
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And for the love of god, stop placing so much importance on ~paper résumés~. A well written, researched and SPECIFIC digital cover letter, a good, customized rés + portfolio/reel/samples and a well timed follow up will go over a MILLION TIMES BETTER than the romanticism behind 'hitting the pavement'.
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Apr 23, 2013 22:12
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toby posted:Someone mentioned it but: Benny do you have a linkedin account, a monster.com resume, etc etc? Somebody please recommend me a good cover letter guide? I've got one from the Career Center here on campus, but I'd like a second guide to compare off of. Thanks.
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Apr 23, 2013 22:30
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PurePerfection posted:I'm sure it varies wildly based on geographic location and experience and education and whatnot. Here, we have a university graduate in a not-particularly-metropolitan part of California with student loans, an unmarketable degree and minimal work history who can't get a minimum-wage burger-flipping gig at McDonald's. He's been half assing this for a month and has actually landed two jobs only to be fired on the first day from both. It isn't the economy.
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Apr 23, 2013 22:41
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Arch Stanton posted:Most job fairs I've seen are populated by companies that are either Depends on the job fair. I got my first job out of uni at a job fair the job centre sent me to. It was almost entirely retail positions and I filled in every application for going. The job I actually got was one that had run out of application forms, so I just handed them my CV. It was a poo poo job and I hated it, but I stuck with it for two years before finally getting a decent one. Oh, and I had an English Lit degree too. It's not impossible.
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Apr 23, 2013 22:42
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Morby posted:So...did you call Goodwill or the Department of Labor or United Way yet? Why or why not? When will you call, if you haven't already? Still waiting on an answer to this, Benny.
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Apr 23, 2013 23:45
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ClemenSalad posted:He's been half assing this for a month and has actually landed two jobs only to be fired on the first day from both. It isn't the economy. Jesus loving christ I am not gonna let Benny of all people outperform me on the job searching front. I've been trying for over a year to get a job in my field and I haven't had two goddamn offers in that time, let alone completely hosed them up. Like god drat I thought I was pathetic. Talk about a kick in the pants. gently caress. Benny you sorely need a reality check. Your problem isn't that you're putting in minimal effort and loving things up, if that was all then that can be fixed. Your problem is that you're putting in minimal effort and loving things up while thinking that you are completely and utterly in the right and doing everything correctly. That totally blocks you from improving because your fingers are stuck in your ears and you can't even recognize the problem. You're basically the daily life equivalent of 9/11 truthers and anti-vax people. I'm not saying you should give yourself paranoid schizophrenia by second guessing yourself all the time, but there is absolutely no guarantee that you are right nor is that an expected outcome. You can't just act as if you're right, you have to think about it and be able to criticize yourself, think about what you're doing, and think about what you can improve because right now you're still stuck in the adolescent "I'm invincible and right and smart" phase. In fact, if I had to define the word "maturity", it'd mean having the self-awareness and critical thinking required to understand your limitations and how that affects the world around you. Only then can you really understand what kind of impact everything has and what's even going on past two inches in front of your face. Assume that you are in the wrong, for once in your life. There is absolutely no guarantee that you are not loving up at any point in time and you need to check yourself before your wreck yourself, constantly. Question yourself!
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Apr 23, 2013 23:45
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PurePerfection posted:Indeed. I went to a very competitive school where job fairs were primarily attended by investment banks, consultancies, and extremely popular tech companies, and the amount of research and preparation students did before the fair was absolutely insane. I just want to point out I did something similar, though not quite as detailed, 25 yrs ago. I still have a job at that company (after several buy outs). The point is to do what you tried with Holister, a minimum of effort, even for a landscaping job. Who are their customers, where is their work zone, do they do railroad ties AND brick? 
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Apr 23, 2013 23:47
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There's a difference between looking for any job that will hire a warm body for a minimum wage paycheck (like those Benny is looking for) and finding a career with a reasonable salary. One will take a month and the other could take a significant amount of time even if you're qualified without very good connections. One is heavily affected by ~*~The Economy~*~ and one not so much.
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Apr 24, 2013 00:03
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CountingCrows posted:There's a difference between looking for any job that will hire a warm body for a minimum wage paycheck (like those Benny is looking for) and finding a career with a reasonable salary. One will take a month and the other could take a significant amount of time even if you're qualified without very good connections. One is heavily affected by ~*~The Economy~*~ and one not so much. Yea I got jumped on earlier for saying it was (relatively) straightforward and easy to get a lower level job like that even in ~The Economy~. I absolutely agree it will take longer and be tougher if you are focusing on one field if it isn't doing well. Doing what Benny is doing is not difficult or out of his reach at all, as he has proven himself twice while trying for an hour or two a day.
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Apr 24, 2013 00:09
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ClemenSalad posted:He's been half assing this for a month and has actually landed two jobs only to be fired on the first day from both. It isn't the economy. This is very true, but I assume that if he was operating in a stronger economy he either would have been fired from a more desirable job, or he'd have had more than two opportunities to screw up by now. Work performance aside, if the only things that a university grad can get after months of searching are a low-paying warehouse job and a low-paying kitchen job, I'd say it's a weak economy (locally, at least).
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Apr 24, 2013 00:13
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You can blame the lack of opportunity on the weak economy, but screwing up what opportunities you do get is solely on him.
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Apr 24, 2013 00:17
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This is a man that was let go from a job that consisted of simply, place items in box. But it's totally the economy that is holding him down.
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Apr 24, 2013 00:39
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