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I don't remember when I learned about VNs in the academic sense, but one day I heard about Tsukihime (I think this was 2008ish) and just decided to play it for whatever reason. So that's how I actually got into it.
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Apr 25, 2013 07:46
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I heard that the F/SN anime was poo poo compared to the VN, so I checked it out and lo, so it was. After that it was Tsukihime, and then some other poo poo I don't really remember, and then Umineko and Nitro+ as a whole cemented my appreciation for the genre.
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Apr 25, 2013 08:34
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I didn't think F/SN's anime was that bad, to be honest. Certainly not as bad as its predecessor.
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Apr 25, 2013 12:30
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My gateway into visual novels was following seorin's FSN LP and also the Katawa Shoujo Act 1 demo, neither of which are experiences that I think can be entirely re-lived.
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Apr 25, 2013 13:04
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kirbysuperstar posted:I didn't think F/SN's anime was that bad, to be honest. Certainly not as bad as its predecessor. I hopped on the Tsukihime bandwagon when it first got translated, since I had seen (and sort of enjoyed, I think?) the Tsukihime anime and was told repeatedly how much better the VN was.
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Apr 25, 2013 13:36
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kirbysuperstar posted:I didn't think F/SN's anime was that bad, to be honest. Certainly not as bad as its predecessor. Sure, it wasn't bad, but it was just an anime of the worst route. It did have that awesome fight between Archer and Berserker unless my memory's being weird, so it definitely wasn't awful, bad choice of words on my part. Also, Higurashi is getting loving insane and i'm loving every goddamn minute of it. Shion and Kasai have loving AK-47s, the Yamainu are getting totally hosed with by Satoko's traps, and this is the best thing ever! The only thing I want for now is for Keiichi and Rena to do some crazy poo poo too, they seem to have been just kinda hanging out, but i'm sure they'll get their moment to shine soon enough. e2: HOLY poo poo AKASAKA YESSSSSSSSSSSSS e3: Okay, at this point i'm starting to think R07 met a really badass officer at some point and this is all just a severe case of fanboyism. I'm giggling my rear end off here, this is loving hilarious! "It isn't a noise of people fighting. It is... a noise from a traffic accident!"  e4: Hahahaha, oh my loving god this is the funniest thing i've read in ages. These hardboiled mercenaries are getting totally devastated by some random schoolchildren, and I can't even say it's 100% implausible. They're an intelligence gathering unit, led by a uselessly pissy commander, who is being ordered about by an even more pissy commander, and the soldiers themselves are so goddamn pathetic they let a 10 year old goad them into a trap. And now, we've got three of the actually competent fighters (and Irie) against 8 well armed guys, and you know what? They're gonna win, because god drat these guys suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck klapman fucked around with this message at 14:41 on Apr 25, 2013 |
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Apr 25, 2013 13:59
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Well DRAMAtical Murder's translation patch is out now. That didn't take long (the VN was originally released only a year ago).
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Apr 25, 2013 16:11
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Blhue posted:Basically its huge Heaven's Feel spoilers: Angra Maiyu or however that's spelled taking control over Sakura while she sleeps. Specifically, it's a super-charged Sakura familiar, more or less controlled by Zouken and Sakura's subconscious. Angry Mayo influences Sakura's thoughts and emotions throughout the route, but it never assumes direct control; she's carried by her own impulses, on Zouken's leash, the whole time. A big point of the entire thing is that everything is happening because she is letting it happen. Under duress, but ultimately the responsibility falls on her.
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Apr 25, 2013 17:53
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planetarial posted:Well DRAMAtical Murder's translation patch is out now. That didn't take long (the VN was originally released only a year ago). I'm curious: How does DRAMAtical Murder compare to the only other shounen-ai VN I've read, Togainu No Chi? The latter is still one of my worst VN experiences. My biggest problems with Togainu No Chi were the uselessness of the main character, the hosed-up abusive relationships and the constant rapin'. I'm not interested in reading another VN that has those kinds of issues.
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Apr 25, 2013 20:15
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Suleman posted:I'm curious: How does DRAMAtical Murder compare to the only other shounen-ai VN I've read, Togainu No Chi? The latter is still one of my worst VN experiences. My biggest problems with Togainu No Chi were the uselessness of the main character, the hosed-up abusive relationships and the constant rapin'. I'm not interested in reading another VN that has those kinds of issues. Never played it, but the VNDB entry says there is rape. Doesn't say anything implying that there's abuse and I don't see anything implying there's lots of rape so it's likely an isolated thing. Seems to be rated pretty highly too.
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Apr 25, 2013 20:55
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I think someone actually posted their thoughts on that int he last thread, and that it was pretty meh all around. But who knows. And yeah sadly if the main demographic is female oriented there is a very low chance there won't be rape in a shounen-ai title.
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Apr 25, 2013 21:02
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unpronounceable posted:Actually, I've wondered how most people discover VNs. I doubt many people share my experience. The first VN I tried was KS, so not anything really uncommon, but I didn't discover it because I had heard of the concept or anything. I found out about it because I was subscribed to someone on Youtube when he made this Mario Paint video of all things. So, I got started because of the music, and decided to explore the medium some more. I was browsing for new anime DVDs at the store and they had a copy of Hirameki's Hourglass of Summer DVD-player game. The concept sounded interesting, so I picked it up on a whim. Ibram Gaunt posted:And yeah sadly if the main demographic is female oriented there is a very low chance there won't be rape in a shounen-ai title. If the main demographic is female and it's rated R-18, there's a very low chance there won't be rape. Period. Adult otome games are notoriously rapey.
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Apr 25, 2013 22:23
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Magical Diary doesn't have any! 
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Apr 25, 2013 22:26
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Found a short VN that gives a good mystery feels to it. It's call No-One has to die.
Nyaa fucked around with this message at 22:51 on Apr 25, 2013 |
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Apr 25, 2013 22:33
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MagicalDuck posted:If the main demographic is female and it's rated R-18, there's a very low chance there won't be rape. Period. Adult otome games are notoriously rapey. What the hell is with this? You'd think there'd be significantly less rape than in creepy-dude-power-fantasy games.
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Apr 25, 2013 22:37
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I think that a fair few otome game companies are run by dudes writing what they think the girls playing their games want.
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Apr 25, 2013 22:41
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That makes even less sense! That's like if the Anne Frank/Goku fanfic was written for a Holocaust survivor support group or something! 
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Apr 25, 2013 22:44
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There's most likely a non zero amount of girls who /like/ that content, and since these companies just try to pander to the people who will buy the most, it sort of is a big middle finger to the people who don't like rape in all their games but they're not the ones buying every re-release and all the drama CDs and stuff so the companies don't care.
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Apr 25, 2013 22:46
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Ibram Gaunt posted:There's most likely a non zero amount of girls who /like/ that content, and since these companies just try to pander to the people who will buy the most, it sort of is a big middle finger to the people who don't like rape in all their games but they're not the ones buying every re-release and all the drama CDs and stuff so the companies don't care. Sounds kind of like the "gratuitous fanservice in video games" dilemma. "Well we ramped up the fanservice for the sequel, and a lot of people bought it, so clearly they bought it for the increased jiggle physics and skimpier clothing (and not, you know, the superior engine and mechanics improvements)!"
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Apr 25, 2013 22:48
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MagicalDuck posted:If the main demographic is female and it's rated R-18, there's a very low chance there won't be rape. Period. Adult otome games are notoriously rapey. I think you mean shonen-ai, not otome which just refers to when the game has a female protagonist chasing dudes (is there even any adult translated otome games out there?). Suleman posted:I'm curious: How does DRAMAtical Murder compare to the only other shounen-ai VN I've read, Togainu No Chi? The latter is still one of my worst VN experiences. My biggest problems with Togainu No Chi were the uselessness of the main character, the hosed-up abusive relationships and the constant rapin'. I'm not interested in reading another VN that has those kinds of issues. I haven't played Togainu no Chi myself but I've played the common route and most of a single route so I'll try to answer this (spoiled just in case). No he's actually pretty useful. Can't tell so far. And yeah there's a mixture of rape and consensual scenes. I do like some of the ideas used and the high production values. Play the common route first, it's only about 4-5 hours long and see what you think from there. WickedIcon posted:What the hell is with this? You'd think there'd be significantly less rape than in creepy-dude-power-fantasy games. Nah chicks dig rape in BL. Just go visit the AarinFantasy forums for proof. Honestly I don't get why at all, never really appealed to me.
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Apr 25, 2013 22:54
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Nyaa posted:Found a short VN that gives a good mystery feels to it. It's call No-One has to die.
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Apr 25, 2013 23:15
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Want to say thanks to the guys discussing Higurashi. I picked it up from the talk of it a few weeks back and I've been on hiatus because of work but man, this has really ramped up after a bit of a dull start. The music cues are probably my favorite thing right now. http://i.imgur.com/AsQKa9w.jpg
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Apr 25, 2013 23:58
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Suleman posted:I'm curious: How does DRAMAtical Murder compare to the only other shounen-ai VN I've read, Togainu No Chi? The latter is still one of my worst VN experiences. My biggest problems with Togainu No Chi were the uselessness of the main character, the hosed-up abusive relationships and the constant rapin'. I'm not interested in reading another VN that has those kinds of issues. Useless main character? Check (don't let the common route fool you, once you pick a guy Aoba can't do poo poo anymore). Abusive relationships and rape? Check. Although, there are a couple of routes that don't have the rape/abuse thing going on (thankfully). On the whole the game isn't that great. It's kind of hilarious in an unintentional way though because of just how bizarre the story gets, especially in the true route. It's definitely more light-hearted than Togainu, but it's still a Nitro+Chiral title, so it does have stupid DARK AND EDGY poo poo in addition to the requisite otome/BL game stuff. If you wanna play it, but you'd rather avoid the rape, go after Noiz and Clear. Aoba really only takes the initiative and is a really active participant in the sex scenes in Noiz's route though and their relationship is less unbalanced than the others (Aoba also tries to do stuff plot-wise, emphasis on 'tries' though). The one scene in Clear's route is mostly him ugly crying because Clear is dying while they're doin' it. I still don't know why they thought that was a good time for that, but whatever. Mink's route is straight up him beating the poo poo out of Aoba and raping him and Koujaku has had a boner for Aoba since he was like 8 or something and that's nasty. There are almost no BL/otome games with protagonists that have any kind of agency, let alone are remotely assertive (you know, because ladies can't make choices or be in charge of the action even in video games and even when they're playing dudes). That's just how it is and it's dumb. Also, good luck finding a protag in an adult game targeted at women who actually wants to have sex. As I understand it, the rape thing in BL/otome stuff (and romance poo poo targeted at women in general, you'll find this kind of stuff in manga and even plenty of western novels too) is largely a result of the whole 'you're a slut if you want sex' thing and rape or scenes of 'questionable' consent are ways around that. The player wants it and can intuit that even though the player character is saying no/resisting they actually want it because it's fiction (for the record I neither approve of this or am terribly fond of it personally) while at the same time not putting the (female) player's avatar in the position of doing something socially unacceptable: asking for sex. Even fluffy, non-adult otome titles (hell even UtaPri does this) pretty much always have a scene where the target love interest forces himself on the player character (and no you never get a choice to say like 'yeah baby, let's do it'), because she's not allowed to be an active participant. The closest to that you get is like, Tokimeki Memorial Girls Side, and the whole premise of that game is basically transforming yourself into the perfect girl for your target guy (and then you get to molest him fully clothed on the DS touch screen). They keep making games like this because that's what sells. If any of you had the misfortune of watching the Amnesia anime, here's something you might find shocking: Touma, the guy who drugs the MC and locks her in a cage to 'protect her' is the #1 most popular character in that rather popular otome game franchise. The BL scene seems to be changing in this respect recently, but not so much the otome side of things (those games are decidedly more 'conservative' in general). There are a couple of upcoming BL games that seem to have high-agency protagonists and (probably?) no rape, but it's hard to say for sure before they're out: (Temporary) God and, despite what the title sounds like (it's referring to a game mechanic) No, Thank You!!! (both these sites have some NSFW content in the gallery sections, because they are both R-18 games). Yandere is really in right now in otome stuff, so that poo poo's just getting more rapey/violent. Though this game, Sanzen Sekai Yuugi - MultiUniverse Myself- looks vaguely promising, but there's almost no information about it out yet and I'm not that hopeful based on this publisher's BL line (hurr getting raped by nazi vampires in the Taisho period, what fun!). tl;dr Hatoful is the best otome game.
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Apr 26, 2013 00:00
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Good_Haro posted:tl;dr Hatoful is the best Pretty much! Anyway, I'm sad to hear that about otome games. It'd be nice to have a professional take on VNs that doesn't seek to exploit the hikikomori or some other creepy group. I'm hoping we eventually get there, but so far the closest we have are half-games like Ace Attorney or story games like Cinders. Oh, well. I've got a thick skin, I can take some creepy content if it means I can feed my addiction for emotional manipulation and unique storytelling experiences. I just wish I didn't have to.
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Apr 26, 2013 00:12
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Suleman posted:Pretty much! I think it depends a bit on where you draw the "creepy" line. Does Rewrite qualify as "creepy"? Does Steins;Gate?
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Apr 26, 2013 00:16
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WickedIcon posted:What the hell is with this? You'd think there'd be significantly less rape than in creepy-dude-power-fantasy games. Well, I hope I don't blow anyone minds but apparently there's research that say that rape is a surprisingly common fantasy amongst women. Source!:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19085605 (Note: I totally have no idea how reliable this source is but hey, medical journal right?
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Apr 26, 2013 00:17
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Good_Haro posted:Yandere is really in right now in otome stuff, so that poo poo's just getting more rapey/violent. Though this game, Sanzen Sekai Yuugi - MultiUniverse Myself- looks vaguely promising, but there's almost no information about it out yet and I'm not that hopeful based on this publisher's BL line (hurr getting raped by nazi vampires in the Taisho period, what fun!). But hey, if it's sufficiently removed from reality, male on male rape is okay! Nephilm fucked around with this message at 00:49 on Apr 26, 2013 |
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Apr 26, 2013 00:31
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Nephilm posted:But hey, if it's sufficiently removed from reality, male on male rape is okay! Shut up. EDIT: Seriously this got you probated and a new red text avatar last time. Why would you bring this up again? jonjonaug fucked around with this message at 00:50 on Apr 26, 2013 |
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Apr 26, 2013 00:38
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So hey, a few weeks ago Amaterasu started on Coμ proper, which I mean basically confirms that Baldr Sky is dead but at least they're already 56% done with the common route! Looks like it'll be pretty good! Let's talk about what VNs we're looking forward to, please. Just anything to not have this derail again.
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Apr 26, 2013 00:47
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Suleman posted:Pretty much! Why doesn't Ace Attorney count? Or 999? I admit, VNs are so far away from their full potential it's pretty sad, but it's not like there aren't any games bereft of creepy stuff who take advantage of the medium.
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Apr 26, 2013 00:51
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I dunno, is it really a derail to talk about VNs with female protagonists rather than As mentioned before, Hatoful Boyfriend is probably legitimately the best otome game ever, though Jurassic Heart is a close second. As far as serious games go, Hierofania is not an otome game but has a female protagonist and is a very good VN. A lot of people here also seem partial to Magical Diary, which is more of a sim game but is reputedly pretty good and has an ongoing LP. Cinders is legitimately great and well worth the price. I don't know if Hakuouki (which also has an LP) breaks the mold much, but the protagonist shows some gumption on Heisuke route at least. Also there's Sen. EDIT: As far as recent releases go, the NaNoRenO game Witch/Knight has an interesting premise and a lesbian protagonist handled well for once. Also, good production values for a free OELVN. Omniphile fucked around with this message at 01:01 on Apr 26, 2013 |
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Apr 26, 2013 00:53
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Omniphile posted:I dunno, is it really a derail to talk about VNs with female protagonists rather than I was more talking about what Nephilim was dredging up. Hakuouki is fine but it sort of suffers from some scenes getting kind of rapey (but not explicit due to its rating) but I guess it could be worse.
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Apr 26, 2013 00:56
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Ibram Gaunt posted:I was more talking about what Nephilim was dredging up. Yes, I too would rather the entire subject be dropped, hence. Don't need loving 500 word posts about so and so. Omniphile posted:As far as serious games go, Hierofania is not an otome game but has a female protagonist and is a very good VN. Hierofania is decent, and fairly good considering its scope and what it had to work with. Looking forward to the sequel fake ed: Hierofanía (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
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Apr 26, 2013 01:04
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I guess Fate/Extra counts as part otome since you can play as a female protagonist and pick Archer (or Gil in CCC) but let's not kid ourselves. It was made for the male market.Suleman posted:Pretty much! Would 7th Expansion's works count? They're full VNs and as far as I know they don't have the creepy (non horror related creepy that is) aspects.
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Apr 26, 2013 01:52
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Ibram Gaunt posted:So hey, a few weeks ago Amaterasu started on Coμ proper, which I mean basically confirms that Baldr Sky is dead but at least they're already 56% done with the common route! Looks like it'll be pretty good! Let's talk about what VNs we're looking forward to, please. Just anything to not have this derail again. Actually, Ixrec working on something doesn't mean anything about Baldr Sky -- Futsuu is working on that completely independently of Ixrec. Was working, anyway. It was just under the Amaterasu umbrella due to shared editing staff and such. Odds are that it's dead as doornail, but it's not because Ixrec is working on Comu. Grisia will be done with translation in about a month, though editing may take longer. That's the big one on the horizon, I think.
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Apr 26, 2013 02:08
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unpronounceable posted:Actually, I've wondered how most people discover VNs. I doubt many people share my experience. The first VN I tried was KS, so not anything really uncommon, but I didn't discover it because I had heard of the concept or anything. I found out about it because I was subscribed to someone on Youtube when he made this Mario Paint video of all things. So, I got started because of the music, and decided to explore the medium some more. My first VN was Hotel Dusk for the Nintendo DS. I remember reading a description for the game in the February 2007 issue of Nintendo Power. The game borrowed character animations from the A-ha music video "Take on Me" and it game all the characters a unique and vibrant presence.  Pictured is the protaganist Kyle Hyde. Jerk ex-cop out to put his past to rest. Hotel Dusk kind of set the tone for what I look for in a VN and is the kind of mystery story that I would go back to every once in a while just to experience it again (alas my DS disappeared last winter along with my copy of the game  ) After that I didn't play another VN until I heard about Katawa Shoujo last year and since then I've tried my hand at playing several other VNs created with Ren'Py. I'd attribute some of my hesitation to playing visual novels to the fact that I didn't want to play an "anime dating sim" but from what I got out of one of the Higurashi games there is more to the medium than I initially gave it credit for. I'm still not well versed in a lot of the big name series but as far as first steps into VNs I could have done much worse.
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Apr 26, 2013 03:40
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I love Hotel Dusk a lot. The sequel, Last Window, is pretty great too. That reminds me that I have yet to get around to Another Code R... Cing made some pretty good games and I definitely miss them.
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Apr 26, 2013 03:50
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Oooookay, Matsuribayashi is starting to just get kinda dumb now. And a lot of it seems like stuff that could be really, really badass and cool except it just misses the opportunity. Like Irie's Maid in Heaven thing, I don't really, well, get it. Like, it's a really tense situation and he actually comes up with something clever, pretending he had a syringe filled with H108 or whatever the incredibly lethal injection is, which could have been really cool, but then he starts saying "oh yeah man you'll scratch your butt to death". Maybe it was meant to be a break in the action or something, but it wasn't executed well at all. That, and good lord - yes, the Mountain Hounds aren't specifically a combat unit, sure. But the idea that they're getting systematically picked off by a band of schoolchildren, regardless of whether or not they're on their "home turf", is just ridiculous. It's retroactively making all the menace they held in Minagoroshi nothing more than a bad joke. Hell, at this point i'm more surprised that Rika didn't manage to survive at least one world just because the Hounds accidentally shot eachother to death during training. I thought this was going to be a story about managing to triumph against overwhelming odds, or even better two sides having an evenly matched battle, but this just turned into a goddamn Disney movie at some point and i'm not really enjoying it all that much. Muv Luv Spoilers from here in It feels a lot like if Takeru came back from Extra PTSD Land with all his newfound determination and will to save the world, and the BETA just started linedancing rather than, y'know, doing BETA poo poo. I can't take the story seriously if it can't take it's antagonists seriously, which hasn't been a problem at all up until this second half of Matsuribayashi. It's really disappointing and baffling how this started to happen at what should be the climax to the story. Believe me, i've got no problem with a happy ending, hell I loving love the things. But in stories like this, I want the characters to earn them rather than just having the author plop it in their laps.
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Apr 26, 2013 11:50
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You've more or less zeroed in on what bothers people about Matsuribayashi. I think the first 80% or so is pretty brilliant, and the actual ending itself is perfect, but everything in-between should have been amazing as well and it just doesn't work out that well.
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Apr 26, 2013 12:05
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Nate RFB posted:You've more or less zeroed in on what bothers people about Matsuribayashi. I think the first 80% or so is pretty brilliant, and the actual ending itself is perfect, but everything in-between should have been amazing as well and it just doesn't work out that well. Yeah, I just finished it, and that ending was really nice so i'm willing to forgive the less than stellar parts.  Besides, now that I think of it, it was probably R07's first time writing an intense chunk of a story rather than a single scene, or at least one that wasn't entirely sinister in nature. Now that I think about it, it felt a lot like a poorly executed Umineko sequence, so I can easily forgive him for that if only because he got so good at it later on.All in all, Higurashi was a really good read, although it wasn't quite as polished as Umineko, and maybe it didn't use the characters quite as well in the later episodes. I had a good time though, and i'm looking forward to the secret ending.
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Apr 26, 2013 13:04
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