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My question was why use four cables in the right lane rather than just three. Sorry for wording it badly in the original post.
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Apr 25, 2013 04:04
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Three lanes, three cables? \/ \/ Interesting. Turns out I misinterpreted both of your posts. SurgicalOntologist fucked around with this message at 05:52 on Apr 25, 2013 |
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Apr 25, 2013 04:32
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Sorry, I probably should have been a little clearer too. Cichlidae or someone else who has used hose counters more recently than I have can correct me if this is wrong: The reason you get two hoses stretching across both lanes and two hoses only going across the right lane is so that all possible data collected by the counter can be separated out by lane. Any vehicle in the right lane is going to cause the same hits to be registered on each pair of hoses, whereas a vehicle in the left lane will only cross one of each pair. The software that processes the count data can then easily distinguish which hits came from the left lane and which came from the right. It'd be less accurate if you only had one extra hose counting on the right lane, especially if you have two vehicles crossing the hoses at the same time. With that layout you can get counts by vehicle speed, as you said, and also vehicle length for each lane. This layout also works on two-lane roads for directional counts. Edit: Is this what the layout looked like? http://www.jamartech.com/tubelayouts-L11.html Dominus Vobiscum fucked around with this message at 04:47 on Apr 25, 2013 |
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Apr 25, 2013 04:42
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I remember when they used to use those hoses as speed traps. We used to try to lock up our wheels on them to tear them up.
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Apr 25, 2013 05:22
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Dominus Vobiscum posted:Edit: Is this what the layout looked like? http://www.jamartech.com/tubelayouts-L11.html Why yes, that is almost exactly what the setup looks like! (It's three lanes across, in Raleigh, but that's really irrelevant to the diagram.) Your explanation makes sense; I guess it is a bit easier to not have to process two close vehicles when you can just count them independently. One more question about these things: is there a recommended distance back from stoplights they need to be run? I could imagine red lights skewing the speed counts.
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Apr 25, 2013 05:26
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PainterofCrap posted:I remember when they used to use those hoses as speed traps. We used to try to lock up our wheels on them to tear them up. I can't imagine that their speed data would be admissible in court. They may be reasonably accurate, but they're not precise. If two cars go over them at once, they can get some ridiculous readings. Heck, even with one lane, we'll sometimes get 100+ mph hits. Grundulum posted:One more question about these things: is there a recommended distance back from stoplights they need to be run? I could imagine red lights skewing the speed counts. All speed data should be collected mid-block. Furthermore, 85th percentile speeds should be determined in off-peak hours to remove the effect of congestion.
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Apr 25, 2013 12:16
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PainterofCrap posted:I remember when they used to use those hoses as speed traps. We used to try to lock up our wheels on them to tear them up. Sounds a lot like you've fallen for an urban myth and really annoyed a traffic engineer in the process.
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Apr 25, 2013 13:04
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They mark roadside cameras for measuring traffic flow and air quality as such here to prevent people from panic braking and also to prevent them going up in flames. They aren't as hardened as actual traffic cameras (though even those sometimes need cameras to watch the camera). Maybe vandalism is less of a problem than i think and it is just really sticks in the mind when you see a torched speed cam or one that has been pulled over so it photographs the sky.
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Apr 25, 2013 19:08
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My wife's participating in an LP soon, and she asked me for a brief overview of Paris. I gave her this. An Engineer's History of Paris Today, we're in Paris. It's a large city by most standards: about 12 million people between the city proper and its immediate environs. The city's not exactly spread out, either; its density is by far the largest of any European city with over 1 million people. It also hosts an incredible number of historic sites. You can hardly walk half a block without running into a museum, art gallery, or monument, which contributes to Paris' status as the world's number one tourist destination. If you're in the mood for history, food, knowledge, or inspiration, this is your place. Like most cities in Europe, Paris predates the Roman empire. It's been inhabited for at least 6500 years, and some artifacts found nearby are even older. The city's name comes from the tribe that the Romans found living there, the Parisii. Rome gave it its own name, Lutetia (the element is named after this), but the new name failed to stick. The original Roman street pattern, though, dividing the city into a rough grid, has persisted to this day. Paris grew in prominence during the Middle Ages, and eventually became a cultural hotspot during the Renaissance, when it gained its nickname "the City of Light." Unfortunately, well into the 1800s, it was still a mostly Medieval city as far as infrastructure was concerned. Sewage collected in the streets and flowed into the river, fires raged in the flimsy wooden buildings that made up the city, and residents proved on multiple occasions how easy it was to barricade the narrow streets. In the mid-1800s, the Baron Haussmann built Paris into the city we know today. He bulldozed most of the old neighborhoods, built wide (and unblockable) avenues, and established monuments as focal points around town. Sewers were established, and even 150 years on, they're still functional. Later on, the city walls were torn down, and a boulevard took their place, known nowadays as the "Périph." The Eiffel Tower was built for the Exposition of 1889, the apparent winner of a worldwide challenge to build a thousand-foot-tall structure. The Washington Monument, for comparison, was a failed attempt at the same challenge: only 555 feet. Though the Tower was to be torn down after the Exposition, shrewd business sense kept it in the Eiffel family's control for nearly a hundred years. While most citizens originally found it ugly, it's become the primary symbol not only of the city, but of France as a whole. The city's engineers came through once again a decade later, building the Métro, a subway network that today makes fast travel possible between almost anywhere in the city for a minimal price. Despite half a century of decentralization, Paris remains by far France's largest city, and without a doubt the centerpiece of the République.
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Apr 26, 2013 01:03
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So, this happened. Is there any way for a guy to actually make a difference in the process?
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Apr 26, 2013 01:40
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NightGyr posted:So, this happened.
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Apr 26, 2013 01:49
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NightGyr posted:So, this happened. The only real ways he could speed up a project are: 1) Bribe a high-up official to fast track it while it's in design 2) Form a contracting company, build up a decent portfolio, bid low, and use more crews than you need 3) Bribe/threaten the inspector to let the contractor cut corners and finish early 4) Add a financial incentive for the contractor to finish early 5) Devise an machine that can inconspicuously create natural disasters, run it, and speed up the demolition process
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Apr 26, 2013 02:18
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Cichlidae posted:The only real ways he could speed up a project are:
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Apr 26, 2013 03:08
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Jonnty posted:Sounds a lot like you've fallen for an urban myth and really annoyed a traffic engineer in the process. Nope. We (in my high school) all got pulled over at one time or another. This was 1977-1984, Abington Township, PA. 2-lane road; they'd do one lane in the morning, and change to the other side in the afternoon to nail people coming home from work.
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Apr 26, 2013 04:36
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Hedera Helix posted:It also resulted in the south side of Powell from 52nd to 82nd being torn down, and then turned into parking lots once the ROW was sold off... I never made the connection - I had always found those strips of parking strange, but I figured it was some urban planning experiment gone awry.
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Apr 26, 2013 05:32
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I have to say I got a pretty good chuckle when Boston hit a bunch of some poor traffic engineer's hose traffic counter boxes with a water cannon after the 2007 mooninite invasion/bomb scare. What the hell were they thinking? I mean, really? Pure "left hand, right hand" bureaucratic malfunction there.
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Apr 26, 2013 09:21
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kastein posted:I have to say I got a pretty good chuckle when Boston hit a bunch of some poor traffic engineer's hose traffic counter boxes with a water cannon after the 2007 mooninite invasion/bomb scare. Hey, if you're going to drastically overreact to one harmless thing, why not go whole-hog and destroy everything that looks mildly suspicious? I'm not sure how expensive those count stations are, or whether they're insured.
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Apr 26, 2013 12:12
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Cichlidae posted:My wife's participating in an LP soon You mean a Let's Play, or something else?
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Apr 26, 2013 12:30
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Cichlidae posted:Like most cities in Europe, Paris predates the Roman empire. I don't think this is true for 'most cities in Europe'. Most cities in Northwest Europe started in medieval times or later. The few cities that go back to Roman times are well known as historic sites, and often have a museum dedicated to the fact. Most settlements known from before that time have disappeared over the centuries. Of course there are many more cities with a Roman history in Southern Europe, where the empire's influence was greater. But I still don't think it's true that 'most cities' predate the empire.
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Apr 26, 2013 14:21
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I would say it's true in the UK, for a moderately strict definition of city. Probably less so in places like Germany, which didn't really settle down to having fixed settlements until well after the fall of Rome.
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Apr 26, 2013 16:24
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NightGyr posted:So, this happened. Even if he made the progress go faster, there's no guarantee the widening will actually reduce traffic. If it starts moving faster, more people will choose to drive on it until it reaches equilibrium with the other roads again.
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Apr 26, 2013 18:38
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Volmarias posted:You mean a Let's Play, or something else? Yeah. She's running one at the moment, and working as a guest commentator for two more. Carbon dioxide posted:I don't think this is true for 'most cities in Europe'. Most cities in Northwest Europe started in medieval times or later. The few cities that go back to Roman times are well known as historic sites, and often have a museum dedicated to the fact. Most settlements known from before that time have disappeared over the centuries. Pretty much every village I saw in France had stone age roots. Most of them haven't been continuously inhabited since, but there were certainly people living there. That's what I meant.
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Apr 26, 2013 23:10
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It's interesting really to say how old a city is. Is a city the same city when it was burned to the ground and it's entire population replaced by another culture? Is it the same city when it had its entire road network and every building rebuilt at once? What about when it happens over time? It's the old "great grandpa's axe" idea. My dad had to replace the blade, and my grandpa replaced the handle, but it's my great-grandpa's axe!
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Apr 27, 2013 03:41
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Baronjutter posted:It's interesting really to say how old a city is. Is a city the same city when it was burned to the ground and it's entire population replaced by another culture? Is it the same city when it had its entire road network and every building rebuilt at once? What about when it happens over time? It's the old "great grandpa's axe" idea. My dad had to replace the blade, and my grandpa replaced the handle, but it's my great-grandpa's axe! THIS IS ARE
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Apr 27, 2013 03:47
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Baronjutter posted:It's interesting really to say how old a city is. Is a city the same city when it was burned to the ground and it's entire population replaced by another culture? Is it the same city when it had its entire road network and every building rebuilt at once? What about when it happens over time? It's the old "great grandpa's axe" idea. My dad had to replace the blade, and my grandpa replaced the handle, but it's my great-grandpa's axe! In that vein, there's a shitload of European cities and towns where the only old part of town was a small village area, and the rest of their area was only built up since roughly 1750-1800 as the industrial revolution started and the mass migration from countryside to towns/cities. So a lot of places in Europe, the old core might be 600 years old, but the majority of the settlement dates to the same timeframe as the average town or city in the US east of the Mississippi.
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Apr 27, 2013 04:15
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Install Gentoo posted:In that vein, there's a shitload of European cities and towns where the only old part of town was a small village area, and the rest of their area was only built up since roughly 1750-1800 as the industrial revolution started and the mass migration from countryside to towns/cities. There are some cities that were almost completely destroyed in WW2, as well, and are more or less completely rebuilt. Le Havre is a good example. While most of the city's only 60 years old, it's been there in spirit for much longer.
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Apr 27, 2013 04:42
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Baronjutter posted:It's interesting really to say how old a city is. Is a city the same city when it was burned to the ground and it's entire population replaced by another culture? Is it the same city when it had its entire road network and every building rebuilt at once? What about when it happens over time? It's the old "great grandpa's axe" idea. My dad had to replace the blade, and my grandpa replaced the handle, but it's my great-grandpa's axe! It all depends on the city. Chicago is a great example, because it comes close to the "great-grandpa's axe" example thanks to Mrs. O'Leary's Cow (yes, I know it wasn't really the cow). The roots of Chicago started 1803 with Fort Dearborn, which was destroyed in the War of 1812. It was rebuilt in 1813, then the town of Chicago was founded in 1830. Chicago was recognized as a city by the state in 1837, and burned to the ground in 1871. So what date is considered Chicago's "birthday"? March 4th, 1837, incorporation day, as shown in the city seal. Despite that, Fort Dearborn is still recognized as part of Chicago and is represented by the first star in the Chicago flag. The four stars of the flag each represent major Chicago events (Fort Dearborn, the Fire, the Columbian Exhibition, and the Century of Progress exhibition), so two of the main symbols of the city contradict each other regarding how old the city is. So how old is Chicago? Do we go back to Fort Dearborn, or incorporation day, or the Fire? How about Richard J. Daley's birthday? The last time the Cubs won the World Series? The consensus is 1837, but really you could go for any of those answers (well, except Daley or the Cubs).
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Apr 27, 2013 04:44
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This local journalism piece on pedestrian safety and road design is surprisingly sophisticated: https://www.baycitizen.org/news/transportation/car-is-king-in-street-design-to-detriment-of-pedes/ Really sad to see names attached to pedestrian fatalities, but drat if I don't want to drive faster on arterials. Ugh
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Apr 30, 2013 19:06
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Mandalay posted:This local journalism piece on pedestrian safety and road design is surprisingly sophisticated: It's really not easy to balance motorist and pedestrian needs unless you're willing to put a price on a life. On a road with few pedestrians, you need to focus on keeping vehicle speeds consistent (typically by making sure the speed limit matches the 85th), because the expected cost of vehicular accidents is above the expected cost of ped/bike accidents. Where there are more pedestrians, you might find it's more cost-effective to kill a few drivers in order to save a few peds. There's no way we can save everyone, sadly, unless we have completely separate transportation systems for all modes. Heck, even then, people walk on the freeways here on a daily basis, or cross train tracks on foot, even if there's a ped bridge a hundred feet away.
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Apr 30, 2013 22:44
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Cichlidae posted:It's really not easy to balance motorist and pedestrian needs unless you're willing to put a price on a life. On a road with few pedestrians, you need to focus on keeping vehicle speeds consistent (typically by making sure the speed limit matches the 85th), because the expected cost of vehicular accidents is above the expected cost of ped/bike accidents. Where there are more pedestrians, you might find it's more cost-effective to kill a few drivers in order to save a few peds. There's no way we can save everyone, sadly, unless we have completely separate transportation systems for all modes. Heck, even then, people walk on the freeways here on a daily basis, or cross train tracks on foot, even if there's a ped bridge a hundred feet away. How depressing. I guess that does give me a little more sympathy for small towns' driver-hostile policy on main streets and such.
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May 1, 2013 18:13
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Mandalay posted:How depressing. I guess that does give me a little more sympathy for small towns' driver-hostile policy on main streets and such. It really does get depressing once you realize you're comparing lives with money. Is it worth 1 additional death every ten years if you can save 100,000 vehicle-hours of delay per year? I mean, we've got to do it, otherwise we end up covering every road surface in crash barriers and setting speed limits to 1 mph, but it still doesn't make it any easier when someone asks why their child is dead. In less depressing news, another exotic interchange in CiM2. We'll see how this one operates once the whole city is done (and I can finally move past 8:00am Monday morning): 
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May 2, 2013 02:47
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Quick question - another goon and I were BSing on the way to a third goon's place this morning and came across an intersection right off an exit ramp where CTDOT appears to be putting in a magnetically triggered (pickup loop slots cut into the asphalt in each lane) traffic light. But neither of us has ever seen any significant traffic at that exit ramp, he's lived in the area his entire life and I've lived here for nearly 3 years now. It's the ramp from i84 westbound onto CT-190 in Stafford/Union, any idea what's up? e: http://goo.gl/maps/bDVXd this one (it's the ramp in the top left quadrant)
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May 2, 2013 02:55
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Cichlidae posted:It really does get depressing once you realize you're comparing lives with money. Is it worth 1 additional death every ten years if you can save 100,000 vehicle-hours of delay per year? I mean, we've got to do it, otherwise we end up covering every road surface in crash barriers and setting speed limits to 1 mph, but it still doesn't make it any easier when someone asks why their child is dead. Wasn't that cost vs life calculation used to justify keeping Right on Red turns?
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May 2, 2013 03:54
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kastein posted:Quick question - another goon and I were BSing on the way to a third goon's place this morning and came across an intersection right off an exit ramp where CTDOT appears to be putting in a magnetically triggered (pickup loop slots cut into the asphalt in each lane) traffic light. But neither of us has ever seen any significant traffic at that exit ramp, he's lived in the area his entire life and I've lived here for nearly 3 years now. It's the ramp from i84 westbound onto CT-190 in Stafford/Union, any idea what's up? I'm not sure. It could be a temporary signal, if there's a bridge project there, but it's unlikely they'd use loops vs. microwave detection. When we're putting in new signals, interstate off-ramps are a frequent target simply because stop-controlled intersections have the potential to back up onto the freeway. I don't know what the volumes are there, so I don't know whether it's warranted. Terminal Entropy posted:Wasn't that cost vs life calculation used to justify keeping Right on Red turns? There's constant research going on as to which treatments are worth doing, but the results aren't always consistent. We usually don't calculate it all out. Engineers tend to get a good idea over the years of what's "worth it." Is it worth spending $5M on a guide rail upgrade project, or would it be better spent on realigning a dangerous intersection? They're both competing for funding, and there's rarely time to do a good cost/benefit analysis. The most experienced engineers make the decision on what to fund, based on what they think is in the public's best interests.
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May 2, 2013 03:58
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How large does a roundabout have to be? There are some fairly wide residential streets here which are just grids of 4-way stops. Is there a way to make those into roundabout-style junctions with about the same footprint? The streets are wide enough that there can be cars parked on both sides, and as long as they're up against the curb, two cars can pass, even if a bit close. I'd say they're 2.5-3 "lanes" wide, even though there's no striping.
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May 2, 2013 16:28
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babyeatingpsychopath posted:How large does a roundabout have to be? There are some fairly wide residential streets here which are just grids of 4-way stops. Is there a way to make those into roundabout-style junctions with about the same footprint? The streets are wide enough that there can be cars parked on both sides, and as long as they're up against the curb, two cars can pass, even if a bit close. I'd say they're 2.5-3 "lanes" wide, even though there's no striping. You can always have a mini-roundabout! (a uniquely british concept I think...)
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May 2, 2013 18:33
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I've never really understood what problem those are meant to solve in low traffic areas. I think the roads departments probably just like to paint 'em.
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May 2, 2013 18:36
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Cichlidae posted:In less depressing news, another exotic interchange in CiM2. We'll see how this one operates once the whole city is done (and I can finally move past 8:00am Monday morning): Wow, no weaving. Well done.
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May 2, 2013 18:49
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Install Gentoo posted:I've never really understood what problem those are meant to solve in low traffic areas. I think the roads departments probably just like to paint 'em. I think it's because there's no default behaviour for an unmarked junction in the UK - or at least there probably is, but no-one knows what it is. Hence, roundabouts everywhere. That's not even a particularly bad one. This one near me is at the entrance to an industrial park, so huge delivery lorries go through it every day. You can't really tell from the image, but the camber is totally hosed. edit: Obligatory Milton Keynes comedy roundabout. Wolfsbane fucked around with this message at 18:57 on May 2, 2013 |
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May 2, 2013 18:54
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Yeah the rule for a 4 way uncontrolled intersection in the US is to simply do exactly the same thing as a 4 way stop, without the everyone stops first part. Slow down approaching, yield to traffic on the left and traffic already turning in front of you.
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May 2, 2013 19:04
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