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MrNemo posted:The only amendment I'd make to that is that Mechanicum is a really good book if you want to go further into understanding the relationship between the Adeptus Mechanicus and the Imperium or why they talk about Mars having all this cool tech during the Crusade and yet 10,000 years later they seem to barely know what the gently caress there is on Mars itself. If you're familiar with the basics of WH40K lore and want a decent understanding of how the AM and Imperium fit together read this and Abnett's Titanicus. I guess if you think sci-fi techno-babble is boring or just want to read more about Space Marines crushing Xenos skulls/Skull like appendages then it's eminently skippable but I think it adds a bit more depth of flavour to Imperium. At least in part because prior to reading those two novels I really thought of the Mechanicus as being kind of like another SM chapter rather than a nominally separate faction allied to the Imperium. Well, lore-wise Mechanicum is good, yeah, but as a book it has an anemic plot, poor pacing and worse characters. Might as well just spend that time reading lexicanum.
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Apr 22, 2013 03:49
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For those interested in BL-related artwork (speaking of that stunning cover from last page!), particularly of Horus Heresy stuff, I may recommend checking out this lady. She's done a bunch of portraits of prominent characters from the Heresy books, significantly the primarchs, and it's a lot of fun to look at. Ironically enough, the most recent sketch she posted is of Abaddon, sans most of the stuff he's normally identified with (spiky armor, huge toplock, screaming hysteria). I would honestly buy a Black Legion book with just that as the cover. 
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Apr 22, 2013 15:10
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Eh, it's refreshing to see a civilian plot in the midst of everything going on in Mars. And the mindfuckery was just a bonus! Though I admit the Titan combat was a little pointless considering how it all ended. I also read The Kaban Project first and cheered when that got resolved.
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Apr 22, 2013 15:13
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Mazed posted:For those interested in BL-related artwork (speaking of that stunning cover from last page!), particularly of Horus Heresy stuff, I may recommend checking out this lady. She's done a bunch of portraits of prominent characters from the Heresy books, significantly the primarchs, and it's a lot of fun to look at. Those aren't good. Like, at all. Most have the same (expressionless) face, except when weird birth defects are involved, like Vulkan's left eye being lower than the right. It also makes most of the primarchs look scrawny and old. The Blanche inspiration is clear, but whereas his work is rough yet detailed and evocative, this is just super bland.
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Apr 22, 2013 15:31
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Nephilm posted:Those aren't good. Like, at all. Most have the same (expressionless) face, except when weird birth defects are involved, like Vulkan's left eye being lower than the right. It also makes most of the primarchs look scrawny and old. The Blanche inspiration is clear, but whereas his work is rough yet detailed and evocative, this is just super bland. Blanche's work has some nice ideas, but their extremely loose, messy style makes them feel like nothing more than that, where other artists have taken those concepts a lot further, with considerably better results. I see what you mean about this artist's Primarch portraits, but the impression I get from them is that they're depicted in a very stiff, formalized manner deliberately -- like, in a way that evokes an in-universe, stylized impression, and very specifically not showing them as ordinary humans. Imagine a remembrancer from one of the books who's been overly taken by the pageantry surrounding the Legions, and wants to capture that aspect of them, and as a result, this is what the citizens of the 31m Imperium would see in a history book. Also, while anatomy/proportions are another thing entire, there's no way you're hatin' on the Primarchs' Cats.
Mazed fucked around with this message at 16:00 on Apr 22, 2013 |
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Apr 22, 2013 15:57
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I'm not swayed by poorly-sketched cat caricatures, sorry.Mazed posted:Blanche's work has some nice ideas, but their extremely loose, messy style makes them feel like nothing more than that, where other artists have taken those concepts a lot further, with considerably better results. Yet this is not one of those artists. Mazed posted:I see what you mean about this artist's Primarch portraits, but the impression I get from them is that they're depicted in a very stiff, formalized manner deliberately -- like, in a way that evokes an in-universe, stylized impression, and very specifically not showing them as ordinary humans. Imagine a remembrancer from one of the books who's been overly taken by the pageantry surrounding the Legions, and wants to capture that aspect of them, and as a result, this is what the citizens of the 31m Imperium would see in a history book. That is precisely my main issue with these drawings. They all just look like regular 50-something old men, some with a bit of muscle, most just really scrawny, and few with any gravitas at all to them despite what the shading/posing/expression style is inherently supposed to achieve. I don't have high standards for art, but this is really not the kind of stuff I'd go around showing other people. It's not even bad enough to make fun of, it's just... kind of there. It's a thing that exists, like 90% of the stuff on devianart nobody cares about. Nephilm fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Apr 22, 2013 |
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Apr 22, 2013 16:15
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You certainly have some strong opinions. 
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Apr 22, 2013 16:48
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Mazed posted:Blanche's work has some nice ideas, but their extremely loose, messy style makes them feel like nothing more than that, where other artists have taken those concepts a lot further, with considerably better results. Blanche's artwork is awesome.  He's pretty much defined the look and feel of 40k for me.
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Apr 22, 2013 17:10
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Now this is 40k artwork I can get behind e; most of the related artwork on the side is actually half decent. e2; oh it's mostly official or fan work for GW that's why .
Dodoman fucked around with this message at 17:17 on Apr 22, 2013 |
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Apr 22, 2013 17:13
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Safety Factor posted:Blanche's artwork is awesome. Yeah, I can't imagine someone preferring random Deviantart lady to John Blanche. That's just weird. Dodoman posted:Now this is 40k artwork I can get behind At least a few of those say that they were commissioned for FFG and their 40k RPGs, so it makes sense that they're fairly professional quality.
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Apr 22, 2013 17:18
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 John Blanche does have some issues drawing people. But, look at this goddamn spaceship.
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Apr 22, 2013 17:18
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Mazed posted:You certainly have some strong opinions. Nerds on the internet. Mechafunkzilla posted:
Oh yeah; his people come off weird
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Apr 22, 2013 17:54
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Well, ADB liked her. Blanche's art is fun, though, because it really does inspire some memorable weirdness -- sometimes in a really literal sense. One of McNiell's short stories, "The Kaban Project", had this techpriest-assassin show up, and the description of her was meticulously detailed, and the resulting image was really, really bizarre. After reading it in Shadows of Treachery, I was flipping through the Horus Heresy art collection, and what do you know, this is exactly the character:  (Blanche clearly understands that the Mechanicum has only disdain for the rules of fleshly anatomy.  )...right smack in the middle of what was probably the original printing of the Kaban Project story. And you know, that actually brings up a question. Lots of the anthologies collect stories that were published elsewhere earlier, sometimes as audiobooks or stand-alone novellas. Right now, for stories like Aurelian, are ordering the stand-alone books the only way to read them? They certainly aren't putting those on bookshelves anywhere in the US. Hell, we only just got Angel Exterminatus in chain stores, and it's been out since October last year.
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Apr 22, 2013 18:41
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Mazed posted:And you know, that actually brings up a question. Lots of the anthologies collect stories that were published elsewhere earlier, sometimes as audiobooks or stand-alone novellas. Right now, for stories like Aurelian, are ordering the stand-alone books the only way to read them? They certainly aren't putting those on bookshelves anywhere in the US. Hell, we only just got Angel Exterminatus in chain stores, and it's been out since October last year. Judging from how BL markets Aurelian and its ilk, yes. The only way you could get those is to order a copy. Sold out? Well, sucks. Maybe a few years down the line, they could get published in an omnibus of sorts? BL has very infuriating ideas about limited editions. I don't think anyone here even buys the hardcover editions of books. The ones I see on stores have been there for practically forever.
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Apr 23, 2013 01:52
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Schneider Heim posted:Judging from how BL markets Aurelian and its ilk, yes. The only way you could get those is to order a copy. Sold out? Well, sucks. I don't think anyone anywhere does, unless its ADB/Abnett, Emperor's Gift, and Pariah are the only two I own.
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Apr 23, 2013 02:11
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Mazed posted:Well, ADB liked her.
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Apr 26, 2013 04:43
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She was dark skinned. Desert people vibe going on, iirc.
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Apr 26, 2013 04:48
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Mechafunkzilla posted:
This is one of my favorite 40k images and I'd probably want to hang it up if I didn't know it would be social poison. Oh well. 
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Apr 26, 2013 13:55
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Hey, if you need a 40k fix and have read everything ADB/Abnett's written, Chris Wraight writes some pretty good Space Wolves stuff. Battle for the Fang was not an anomaly.
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Apr 26, 2013 14:33
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VanSandman posted:Hey, if you need a 40k fix and have read everything ADB/Abnett's written, Chris Wraight writes some pretty good Space Wolves stuff. Battle for the Fang was not an anomaly. Wrath of Iron is one of the books that "gets" how alien and bizarre Space Marines can be.
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Apr 26, 2013 22:01
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I swear Black Library is trying to make me never buy an ebook from them. $16 for Mark of Calth? I don't care how enhanced it is, how about sell a version without the stupid pictures?
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Apr 26, 2013 22:31
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Shroud posted:I swear Black Library is trying to make me never buy an ebook from them. $16 for Mark of Calth? I don't care how enhanced it is, how about sell a version without the stupid pictures? This is what's bothering me. I was all set to buy it, only to find out it's 16 bucks plus whatever little fee I get to convert US dollars to euros. And you know the only reason they do not offer a non enhanced edition is because no one would buy the enhanced edition if there was a cheaper one. Seriously, 16 bucks is more than I spend on actual, physical books. On another note, was rereading the Inquisition War omnibus. I forgot how utterly good that author is at making the universe feel so... Alien. And grim dark, in a good way!
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Apr 26, 2013 23:25
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Impaired Casing posted:This is what's bothering me. I was all set to buy it, only to find out it's 16 bucks plus whatever little fee I get to convert US dollars to euros. And you know the only reason they do not offer a non enhanced edition is because no one would buy the enhanced edition if there was a cheaper one. Seriously, 16 bucks is more than I spend on actual, physical books. Pretty much all non indie kindle sci fi ebooks cost that in Australia
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Apr 27, 2013 05:40
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Shroud posted:I swear Black Library is trying to make me never buy an ebook from them. $16 for Mark of Calth? I don't care how enhanced it is, how about sell a version without the stupid pictures? Their ebook pricing policy makes no sense. Not to mention the extra effort you have to do to put them onto a reader. I wish they would just give it up and put their books on the kindle market and be done with it.
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Apr 27, 2013 09:04
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Impaired Casing posted:On another note, was rereading the Inquisition War omnibus. I forgot how utterly good that author is at making the universe feel so... Alien. And grim dark, in a good way!
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Apr 27, 2013 12:25
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Nephilm posted:I'll go over the books (no audiobooks) and how they relate to each other. On the other hand, Legion was completely awesome and probably my favourite of the HH novels so far, is there any more like that?
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Apr 28, 2013 22:54
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PrBacterio posted:So I'm reading Thousand Sons right now and finding it unbearably boring, but unless I'm seriously misunderstanding, according to this list's recommendation the Thousand Sons->Prospero Burns sequence is considered required reading before moving on to Know no Fear/Betrayer, which everyone in this thread is gushing about. Oh, does it come off as that? Because that's not true at all. I mean, Magnus shows up a bit on Betrayer, and knowing the personality of Russ and the Wolves, and what is it that they do for the Emperor, will help in understanding the context of Betrayer whenever they're brought up, but other than that it's a completely separate plotline. If you're not enjoying A Thousand Sons you can drop it and try Prospero Burns, which in my opinion is the better book. They weave their tales around the same events, but the tone and themes are different. Nothing out there quite like Legion, but now that you got me thinking about it, Prospero Burns is a bit like it in being centered around a human protagonist (and it's this singular protagonist, unlike almost every other HH book that follows several) being drawn into a web of intrigue involving a very insular legion. Also by Abnett, who has so far defined the culture for 3 separate legions (Alpha, Wolves, Ultramarines).
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Apr 29, 2013 00:06
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Nephilm posted:If you're not enjoying A Thousand Sons you can drop it and try Prospero Burns, which in my opinion is the better book. They weave their tales around the same events, but the tone and themes are different.
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Apr 29, 2013 03:36
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I really, really enjoyed A Thousand Suns. I felt it portrayed the legion in an almost tragic light. Sure, they defied the Emperor and all that, but that whole trial was rigged. And all Magnus was doing was trying to warn the big E, and I really loved how guilt ridden he was when he realized just how much he screwed up. And, quick question to people who know the fluff better than I: How long does Magnus sit around before he decides to join Horus? Because I can't see why he would want to, aside from just getting revenge, and when does he actually become a disciple of Tzeentch, because it sounds like Magnus should hate the guy.
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Apr 29, 2013 03:52
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Impaired Casing posted:I really, really enjoyed A Thousand Suns. I felt it portrayed the legion in an almost tragic light. Sure, they defied the Emperor and all that, but that whole trial was rigged. And all Magnus was doing was trying to warn the big E, and I really loved how guilt ridden he was when he realized just how much he screwed up. About Thousand Sons the book itself, though; I already knew the basics of Magnus' kind of tragic place in the WH40K backstory/HH. But reading the actual book I just couldn't get over all the overbearing descriptions of the "depth of experience" or whatever bs when these strong psykers/warp-users are astrally projecting/travelling psychically through the warp or whatever. The place I actually stopped reading at was Ahriman trying to get a glimpse of the future at some point fairly early in the story, which at that point he hadn't been able to do for quite a while (and he didn't understand why, and that fact had caused him no small amount of grief, due to the fact that it caused a different faction within the Legion to gain ascendancy in Magnus' favour, over his one; and which we as readers of course know exactly why that is, what with the advantage of knowledge of all the WH fluff and how the story is going to proceed from there, at least in general terms). There was a description that ran for several pages, of how he projected his astral body or whatever, and was "traveling through the chaotic currents of the warp" and he "glimpses something but then the warp currents change" or whatever and I just couldn't take it anymore, argh. What made it even worse was that just a couple pages before that there was another section of several pages of prose description of another psychic channeling session that read more or less exactly identical (where Magnus himself was predicting the arrival of the Space Wolves).
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Apr 29, 2013 05:21
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With a Thousand Sons its really broken into three sets. The first set is kinda the throw away part of the story unless you want more about the sons and their history / personality. Second act is the Consol of Nakea. Then the Third is the persecution of the Wolves. It follows the same pacing of Prospero Burns but without the main characters having the air in the back of your head of being doomed. I am not a WH40k expert by any measure but I did like the characterization of the Sons. So their book was better for me. But then again it was used as the pallete cleanser for "Battle of the Furious Abyss" Abyss and Outcast Dead are the only books that made me and my novice level knowledge of the lore boggle at what feels like timeline errors.
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Apr 29, 2013 11:34
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Impaired Casing posted:And, quick question to people who know the fluff better than I: How long does Magnus sit around before he decides to join Horus? Because I can't see why he would want to, aside from just getting revenge, and when does he actually become a disciple of Tzeentch, because it sounds like Magnus should hate the guy. Based on stuff from Betrayer he was in contact with them but not actually working with them actively until Terra.
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Apr 29, 2013 12:09
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Impaired Casing posted:I really, really enjoyed A Thousand Suns. I felt it portrayed the legion in an almost tragic light. Sure, they defied the Emperor and all that, but that whole trial was rigged. And all Magnus was doing was trying to warn the big E, and I really loved how guilt ridden he was when he realized just how much he screwed up. I think Magnus eventually realises that he hosed up all along and that the Emperor was right. I think he just comes to the realisation that he had been used by both Tzeentch and the Emperor but Tzeentch is the only way to true knowledge and understanding.
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Apr 29, 2013 13:10
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Impaired Casing posted:And, quick question to people who know the fluff better than I: How long does Magnus sit around before he decides to join Horus? Because I can't see why he would want to, aside from just getting revenge, and when does he actually become a disciple of Tzeentch, because it sounds like Magnus should hate the guy. At the end of Fulgrim, Magnus tried to contact Horus after Istvaan V.
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Apr 29, 2013 13:14
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'When Magnus tried to warn the Big E' is one of those continuity snarls that the authors never seemed to get quite right.... It's obnoxious, sure, but try not to worry too much about it. I'm borrowing a friends copy of 'Betrayer' on audiobook. Man, ADB knows his poo poo.
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Apr 30, 2013 19:20
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VanSandman posted:'When Magnus tried to warn the Big E' is one of those continuity snarls that the authors never seemed to get quite right.... It's obnoxious, sure, but try not to worry too much about it. It was quite clear from earlier sources and the first few books that Magnus tried to prevent Horus from falling while the Warmaster was undergoing treatment, then went promptly to Terra when that failed. One big bust of a book forgetting that doesn't change what happened.
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Apr 30, 2013 20:40
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I was a bit confused about the scene when Magnus busts into the Emperor's Throneroom and their minds meet, wouldn't the Emperor see the truth of it? Was the message not relayed properly or did the Emperor interpret it as a lie?
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Apr 30, 2013 22:49
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I was just asking because I thought I read the Horus Heresy only lasted a decade or two, and it seems to be getting rather late in the game. But maybe the timeline is just muddled and these last few books aren't as close to the Battle of Terra as I thought. I know Magnus is talking to Lorgar during Calth, but he still seems hesitant to commit. Kegslayer posted:I think Magnus eventually realises that he hosed up all along and that the Emperor was right. I think he just comes to the realisation that he had been used by both Tzeentch and the Emperor but Tzeentch is the only way to true knowledge and understanding. That makes sense. It seems he'd be pissed as hell with Tzeentch, but Magnus always seemed to put knowledge first and foremost. Anyway, I have poor control over my wallet, so I bought the Mark of Calth. It was fun, but it's hard to say it was 16 bucks fun. Dan Abnett and ADB both have a story in there, and they both are really good. ADB is about a Word Bearer who decides to abandon his legion after he feels it abandons him, and Abnett continues Oll Pious's story, or however you spell it. John French wrote a story in the second person about an athame... Which was neat, and short, so it worked. Then there is a story about Marduk, the loveable Word Bearer, and then a couple of stories about the underground war. I burned in up in a few days, so it was pretty neat. I'd say wait for it to go on sale, but it won't, so there you go.
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Apr 30, 2013 22:51
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Picture you're the CEO of this big, important company. Your son has been hanging out with these unsavory criminal gang types, and although it's been relatively harmless so far, you figure it's not good for him so you tell him to stop. He attempts to justify himself but ultimately agrees. Jump forward a few months later. You're having this important boardroom meeting with your close associates and other bigshots from the company. Suddenly, your son busts through the window in a motorcycle, dressed in leather and covered in tattoos and piercings, wildly firing an uzi while swinging a chain. Out behind him you can see vandals dressed much like him running amok and thrashing the building. There's chaos, the room catches fire, several board members are on the ground, unmoving and bleeding. He rides across the boardroom table, destroying irreplaceable documents in the process, and comes to a stop in front of you. He tells you that your other son, the one you've been grooming to replace you as CEO, is consorting with biker gangs. You glance about the devastation, look at him straight in the eye, and slowly shake your head.
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Apr 30, 2013 23:02
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My memory of the fluff is a little confused now, but wasn't it also that the Emperor sends Russ and his wolves to arrest Magnus and bring him back to Terra, but instead Horus or some other person messes with the message to make it "arrest with extreme prejudice"?
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Apr 30, 2013 23:22
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