|
The keeper had enough time to stand on the ball near the outside of the box, that 2 or 3 of his own players had come back into the box as options. The attacker won it with his back to goal and took a touch away from goal before being brought down. But I wasn't center and not about to insist on anything.
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2013 22:37
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 9, 2024 12:49 |
|
|
So I ran lines on 2 games last Saturday, a U12 and U11. My first game I've officiated in over a decade. Just got my assignments for this weekend and they put me as center on a U16 and a U18. Super nervous but I think I can do it given how much time I've put into the sport in all capacities.
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2013 02:54
|
|
|
Assuming they don't get canceled for snow (like my games were last week) I've got 5 games tomorrow in ~40 degree weather. Anyone have any tips for staying warm/not dying? I'm going to layer up as much as humanly possible under the shirt and hope that some UA leggings keep me warm enough there. To make things worse I'm AR on all but one so I won't even get the benefit of running all that often to warm up.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2013 14:39
|
|
|
Lamont Cranston posted:Anyone have any tips for staying warm/not dying? On cold days, I wear my moisture-wicking undershirt and long underwear top under my (long-sleeved) shirt, and if it's especially cold I have a black long t-shirt I can put under there. If you're AR and I'm center I'd allow you to wear long pants provided they're black and not marked, as well as a beanie and gloves. In the center, I'd just wear shorts and gloves. Good luck! I hear they don't make waterproof yellows anymore. I was lucky and bought mine before they ran out! edit: I had to give a red card to a 15 year old girl for DOGSO. Keeper ran all the way out of the box and used her arms to bring down a girl on breakaway. Of course, it had to happen in the 9th minute, leaving me 71 more minutes to reflect on the play and what I'd done! Bio-Hazard fucked around with this message at 02:58 on Mar 16, 2013 |
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2013 02:55
|
|
|
Bio-Hazard posted:edit: I had to give a red card to a 15 year old girl for DOGSO. Bet that ho deserved it. Bet her parents were disappointed as gently caress
|
|
#
?
Mar 16, 2013 04:00
|
|
|
Bio-Hazard posted:On cold days, I wear my moisture-wicking undershirt and long underwear top under my (long-sleeved) shirt, and if it's especially cold I have a black long t-shirt I can put under there. You're thinking of rugby. Football matches last 90 minutes.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2013 20:30
|
|
|
Breath Ray posted:You're thinking of rugby. Football matches last 90 minutes. Youth games will often last 80 minutes. My Sunday league games did when I was in school, for example.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2013 21:13
|
|
|
Breath Ray posted:You're thinking of rugby. Football matches last 90 minutes. Youth games. By the way, football games here in the states last something like 2-4 hours. Soccer lasts 90 minutes.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2013 22:25
|
|
|
Bio-Hazard posted:Youth games. By the way, football games here in the states last something like 2-4 hours. Soccer lasts 90 minutes. You're right, handegg games do go on longer. Welcome to the football forum, by the way.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2013 12:56
|
|
|
mfcrocker posted:You're right, handegg games do go on longer. Welcome to the football forum, by the way. Soccer is a fine term to use, here on the soccer forum on this American website, in the thread that has US Soccer Federation in the title.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2013 22:54
|
|
|
Bio-Hazard posted:Good luck! I hear they don't make waterproof yellows anymore. I was lucky and bought mine before they ran out! Actually, after being soaked to the bone on Saturday, I had a look on ebay and found one. It just got here today and it looks perfect; I can't imagine why they discontinued them? I would think there are more than enough referees working in regions where it tends to rain fairly often that they'd sell a decent number of them.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2013 06:06
|
|
|
Lamont Cranston posted:I can't imagine why they discontinued them? I got mine in the old pattern, which shows how old it is... I remember somebody saying that they can get a little "steamy" since they're not so breathable.
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2013 07:45
|
|
|
I have been meaning to post in this thread since I saw it pop back to life out of nowhere. Also - the ankle came around, and a knee blowout that happened since I last posted also did too...thanks to whoever asked about that. I realized that my last emo rant was in November, and quite a bit has gone on since then....I've finally started to accept this hobby/role as what it really is - a fun way to stay in shape, get paid, and be "part of the game," but also an always-dangerous and teetering on the brink of disaster place to be, if you're not extremely careful. I've had my opinions on "bad calls" in games changed quite a bit, and now the only things that REALLY piss me off are things like Dyer's goal the other week where it wasn't subjective...he was called offside in a situation where he literally couldn't be offisde...cost them I believe 2, maybe 3 points (forget the result/game). These days I feel moot about "normal" calls. It's one thing to have a "subjective" call be a big deal (PKs, Red Cards, etc), but...when something that involves the basic laws of the game are missed and it costs a team 2 points (or was it 3? trying to remember that result) that's in the heated battle for a EuroSpot. Those are the only calls I see now that actually piss me off these days - when it's actually an "objective" rule that is botched. When I have time this weekend, I will tell some fun stories about some, if not all of the below, and other stuff that I can find that may be funnier...I've had a fun, wild ride over the last 4 months/40-50 games or so. For now, at least, I'm pretty tuned in to when/how much/why I want to ref, and I've been loving almost all of it. Except for the Cholos with the knife in the parking lot, but - story for later, and one I have to tell. Other fun stuff: - Having to red card a u10 player for telling me to "gently caress off, human being" after a bizarre NFL tackle on someone who was trying to catch up to his own touch that was clearly going out regardless - Doing a 10-game stint that was literally an entire bracket for a tournament...of u8 games. I was the only ref, but it was surprisingly awesome. - An assignor whose first job was booking at tournament that failed to shut down registrations when it hit the max number that were supposed to be allowed....collecting money from and thus requiring something like 1300 games (or 1300 assignments) across 8 fields, just over a Saturday, and 8am to 3pm Sunday. - Having my first complaint/investigation form sent to me (it's related to the red carded u8 player) - Why U11-U16 are the worst age groups to ref, but specifically to center...despite U12 centering being the highest $/hr use of your time in almost every league. - Getting approached by cholos after a u13 game...in the parking lot - Getting asked to fix a match for $40...that was a U14 bottom division losers bracket final. After declining, he told me to hang on....and upped his offer to.....$50 dollars. - My best gently caress ups (calling halftime 10 minutes early, awarding a free kick to the wrong team and realizing it after they'd sunk the winning goal and were heading back to the center circle. I've made 3 serious, serious just horrible calls that I regret and wish I could take back, beyond the usual "was he/she really offside?" or "I don't know if I should have given the PK there....it was pretty light" type of stuff. - Milfs - Doing another game with the ref who let everybody die last time in the worst, most violent center-reffing I've seen. Every died again, but only 2 players were critically injured. It was going to be my center, but I told him he could center if he wanted, but no center pay (less running, it was U-19). I thought it would have been a good thing, since the team warming up on my line the game before talked about how they were going to loving beat down the other team. Thought I'd not risk being the center in a game that potentially got wild, when we had a Grade 6 ref handy who was "vastly experienced" in the older, scrappy games. Oh..........how wrong you can be. But - I'll tell the fun stuff next. But - right now, the ref money jar I've been saving is becoming pretty hefty, and I'm debating what to use it for. Amazing how much I could have made if I'd known about this gig when I was in high school, or even before. FAKE EDIT - THE WORST PARENTS IN THE WORLD SHOW UP IN THE HIGHEST PERCENTAGES AT U13 and U14 GAMES - this is a fact.
|
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2013 00:59
|
|
|
AVBrafaDiMatteo posted:FAKE EDIT - THE WORST PARENTS IN THE WORLD SHOW UP IN THE HIGHEST PERCENTAGES AT U13 and U14 GAMES - this is a fact. This is a gospel truth that needs to be taught at the beginning of every referee class. With the true U-littles the parents aren't that into it past wanting their child safe. U13/14 is where they really start to get into it but haven't gained any sort of understanding. Older than that, most of the parents have gone through the U13/U14 phase and realize that all the histrionics don't do anything. It seems like with the U15s or higher only get really bothered by those incidents that get your heart rate up, but if you're right on top of it and have good use of personality you can sell your call pretty easily. It has also helped me learn the importance of "making a show" of using advantage. Except in the penalty area. Also, high school (here at least) has the worst parents period. It's like they forget everything between the end of club season and beginning of high school.
|
|
#
?
Mar 23, 2013 07:53
|
|
|
Ahaha gently caress. Called the local referee coordinator to enquire about course times, got assigned a game on Sunday.  e: Haven't done any of the courses, not even the "this is a whistle and this is how you blow it" intro course. Could be hilarious. First game is going to be an adult women's game too. And I won't have any linesmen. Talk about sink or swim. e2: Question time! - With no linesmen, where should I position myself for corners? I'm thinking just outside the field of play, far side of the goal where the six-yard box line meets the goal line. Just because when poo poo goes down it's most likely to do it on the goal line - or is there a "recommended" place to stand? - Similarly, for formal ("wait for my whistle") free kicks where should I stand? I'm thinking in line with the second-last defender, more-or-less on my diagonal. Thoughts? - Do I still run diagonals with no AR, or is there a better plan? I get the feeling I'm going to do a poo poo-ton of running. - Offsides. Obviously I can't keep up with play all the time, so just do the best I can but if I'm not sure don't call it. Should I warn the captains pre-game "no ARs, so don't expect me to call close offsides", or just let it be? This is in a league that doesn't always get assigned refs and almost never gets assigned ARs, so the players should be used to it right? e3: More questions! - What do I need to check in regards to player equipment? Shinguards, no jewellery, boots are safe? I don't think I've ever seen a boot check in my life. - I just realised I don't own a watch.  Do I need anything more than a simple digital with a stopwatch function? I don't think lugging my phone around in my pocket is a good idea for some reason.
Thel fucked around with this message at 12:11 on Apr 4, 2013 |
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2013 07:42
|
|
|
Thel posted:Ahaha gently caress. Called the local referee coordinator to enquire about course times, got assigned a game on Sunday.  quote:e2: Question time! For reference, these are from my experience of doing solo assignments, which has been either 10 year olds and under, or one U14 boys match. Obviously you'll have to get a feel for how the game's going and adjust accordingly. - Corners: I tend to position myself just inside the corner of the penalty area on the side the ball is being kicked on. (Most 9 year olds aren't going far post with their corners and this affords me the best angle on any pushing/shoving and a possible last touch on the way out of play) - Free kicks: Again, this should basically just be your estimation of the drop zone and what will afford you the best view. There's no real right answer other than I might get somewhat closer to the drop zone than I would if I had ARs to back me up. - Diagonals: I sometimes tend to out of habit, but there's no good reason to, and without ARs on the sideline you might be putting yourself in a position to miss things. - This one is going to be tough. This is one of those things that you more or less get a feel for after doing it a few times (Trin actually gave me a good answer to a substantially similar question early on on this thread, I believe). In an 8v8 game with kids it's easy enough to bust your rear end up and down to keep an eye on the 2LD, etc., but with adults on a full field you're just going to have to do the best you can. The best thing you can do is to keep up with the play as best you can; it's a lot easier to sell an offside decision if you're a few yards behind than if you're in the other half of the pitch. As far as speaking to the captains, in the aforementioned U14 game all I told the players was that as I was working alone on a full field, I was almost certain to get a few throw-in decisions, etc. wrong and that I would accept no dissent on the matter. The players were actually pretty good about this; in fact on one call (a ball went out over the end line, the goalkeeper reached but I didn't think he'd gotten a finger on it) the coach yells from the sideline that it should have been a corner and his player yells back "ref didn't see it that way" and gets in position for the goal kick. Adults are almost certainly going to be different though. Try to get a sense for the teams pre-game and what they'd respond to (not an easy ask I'll admit) and say whatever you think you need to in your pre-game. - Equipment: Shinguards that afford a reasonable amount of protection, no jewelry, necklaces, rings, etc., boots should be safe. Just ask them to turn around and lift a shoe so you can see the cleats. Over here you occasionally see a kid show up in baseball or American football shoes, which have a cleat on the front of the soleplate, which is a no go (disqualified two kids in the same match last weekend for this). Not sure what kind of shoes you'd run into in NZ but use your judgement. - Your watch should have at least a stopwatch, preferably a countdown timer (mine counts down and then starts over, which is handy for stoppage time). You should be able to find a cheap Casio or something that does all that.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2013 14:28
|
|
|
Oh wow. Much braver person than I to accept that assignment! Good luck to you, Thel. I'll back everything Lamont said and add this little bit to your question about running a diagonal: Like Lamont said, I start to do it out of habit but there's no reason to. I would just keep up with play and try to never be straight-lined. What I mean by that is always make sure you have some sort of angle with respect to the play. If you are following straight behind the player in the same direction they are moving, you probably won't see the ball very well and you might miss a foul if it comes from the other side of them. As far as offside goes, I warn teams in pregame that I am only going to call offside if I'm 100% on it, so if they want to play an offside trap they do it at their own peril. With the league sounding like it doesn't always have referees, let alone ARs, they should be used to that. I hope you enjoy it. Refereeing soccer is legitimately one of my favorite ways to spend my evenings/Saturdays. Big thing is to not beat yourself up over how it goes. I don't know if your personality lends itself to doing that, but mine sure does. You're not perfect, the players aren't perfect, and the coaches aren't perfect. Just do your best.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2013 15:50
|
|
|
Thel posted:e2: Question time! I prefer the other side, because then you can see where people are looking; did that defender go up with his eyes on the ball, or the centre-forward? Start about level with the join between penalty area and goal-line, and start walking along the line towards the near post as the taker runs up; this stops you getting caught flat-footed if something weird happens and you need to move quickly. If the ball is cleared, push out with the defenders, stay wide, and referee the next bit of play from somewhere near the offside line until that position no longer makes sense. quote:- Similarly, for formal ("wait for my whistle") free kicks where should I stand? I'm thinking in line with the second-last defender, more-or-less on my diagonal. Thoughts? As someone else said about positioning, angle is critical and trumps everything, so go where you need to go. I like being wide and I tend to move in big zig-zags to get width, but for your first game just go where it seems to make sense to be. Now, here's what I do for a ceremonial restart.  I find that this positioning and movement works best; read it from bottom to top. From there, you can take a good guess at offside from the kick, you get reasonable angles on the drop zone, you've got all the players in front of you, and like from a corner, you can see where people are looking while the ball's in the air. The one thing that you can't see from that position is handball by someone in the wall (unless he's got his hand up in the air), but I've found that it happens rarely enough to be worth missing it for the things that I will see the rest of the time. It also means you don't have to go very far from the wall to your position, and you're not holding the game up while you do a 40-yard run (which then proves utterly useless when they duff it into the wall and you have to go another 40 yards to recover position after the clearance). quote:- Offsides. Obviously I can't keep up with play all the time, so just do the best I can but if I'm not sure don't call it. Should I warn the captains pre-game "no ARs, so don't expect me to call close offsides", or just let it be? This is in a league that doesn't always get assigned refs and almost never gets assigned ARs, so the players should be used to it right? If you feel the need to say something, I'd go with "I'll do my best, but don't rely on the offside trap"; and as was said, if they're used to it, they should just try to defend goalside as much as possible and you can relax. Again, the key to making a good guess is getting as much angle as possible on the attacker who might be offside. Count a mississippi before pinging him; that gives him a chance to pull up and stop interfering with play (if he does, call an advantage so the defenders know you saw it and decided to play on), it gives you a chance to check that the full-back on the other side hasn't dropped 5 yards deep and played him onside, and it also gives the defenders a chance to appeal. I personally don't give offside when I'm on my own without an appeal (barring odd situations like strikers slowly walking back under a high ball from 10 yards offside and then getting involved) because I've got too much else to worry about, and it does make you look a bit silly when you guess that someone was offside, except the entire back four knows that the striker started three yards in front of them. I approach offside like this; it's more likely to cause a problem if I let someone have a goal through wanting to be 100% sure, than if I ping a few promising moves on a 55/45 guess. A team won't kick off too badly some tight through balls that could have gone either way go against them, but they'll definitely be in your ear the rest of the afternoon (and the next few afternoons you referee them, probably) if you let a striker just run right past their back four and take a pass because you wanted to be 100% sure he was offside before blowing up. You may not agree with this, of course. quote:e3: More questions! Check what you feel like checking; but I find that the current legal situation makes me a lot more inclined to feel like bothering with it. As far as I know (and I'm not a lawyer), on both sides of the pond, it has been found that officials owe some form of duty of care to participants, and can be found liable for injuries sustained if they did not follow procedures (like equipment checks) that are there to keep players safe - but if they did, then they have acted reasonably and are not liable. (If anyone else is interested in this sort of thing, check this out. quote:- I just realised I don't own a watch. No. You can have one of many gucci solutions that will calculate injury time for you and buzz silently so nobody else knows time is up and give you a nice GPS picture of where you've been, but all you need is something that will go from 00:00 past 45:00. I do strongly advise you get two cheap watches; not just in case of failure, but so you can have a slow watch (which you stop and start as you feel the need to add time on for things) and a running watch. This does two things; when you forget to restart your stopping watch (and it's when, not if), you're not completely hosed; and also, if the match is obviously won and lost, it means you can ignore the stopping watch and blow up exactly 45:00 after the half started. No point in playing injury time when everyone knows who's won (three goals or more is a good rule of thumb for this) and wants to get to the bar. Have fun, and blow the whistle like you mean it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2013 18:44
|
|
|
Thel posted:Ahaha gently caress. gently caress is right! Watch the USSF referee intro Youtube series, get a watch that counts down (timer), stay within 10-20 yards of the ball, and please write a trip report for us. You brave, brave man.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2013 19:30
|
|
|
Thanks guys. Especially for reaffirming the "oh gently caress" reaction. Ah well, I'm just going to go out there and do my best, and if it turns out to be 22 lions and one Christian in the arena then so be it.  I'm writing up a bunch of cheat sheets now (the types of cautionable and sendable offences, pre-match checklist etc). Further questions: - If you're refereeing solo, do you guys request club linesmen, or not bother? (I have a set of flags) -> And is it one from each team, or home team to provide both? -> They can only call ball-out, not which way and definitely not offside, right? - I've bought a referee's wallet (with game sheet and card slots) - do you guys take the cards out and put them in separate pockets, or just leave them in the wallet? I'm thinking (since my outfit has like six pockets): -> wallet + score sheets in left breast pocket -> yellow card in right breast pocket -> red card in right rear shorts pocket -> one pen in each of front shorts pocket -> backup whistle in left rear shorts pocket. How do you guys organize yourselves? e: I should mention I'm in NZ, so things are a bit different here. Still a bit worried that I'm reffing a third-tier women's game (national -> regional -> tier 1 local [where I'm reffing]) as my first game ever. Oh well it's still probably going to be easier than a sixth-tier men's game. And after AVB's comment earlier in the thread I think I'm going to avoid using the term "ref cherry". At least there's no under-14 girls involved this time. Thel fucked around with this message at 11:29 on Apr 6, 2013 |
|
#
?
Apr 6, 2013 06:16
|
|
|
Thel posted:Thanks guys. Especially for reaffirming the "oh gently caress" reaction. Judging by the time difference, I assume this is coming too late, but anyway; Yes, I always have club linesmen, but due to varying levels of interest and competence, I never rely on them too heavily. I do one from each team if at all possible. And you're correct, just ball out of play - I usually will have a quick chat to a) thank them, and b) make sure they're clear on exactly what constitutes out of play. Again though, it's best if you can keep a watch on the ball yourself and rely sparingly on the club linos. I have a wallet with red and yellow cards that I keep in my shirt pocket, and an extra set of cards, yellow in my other pocket and red in my shorts pocket. I find the thin crappy vinyl is impossible to write on if you take the cards out, so they stay in there as backup. My pen goes in the same shirt pocket with the wallet/game card, and I carry both whistles on the same lanyard around my wrist -- I hold the one I'm using in my fingers and the other is in my palm. If I had to give one piece of advice for the women's game, it'd be to watch out for fouls like hip checks that happen much more often than in the men's game. Good luck!
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2013 04:35
|
|
|
Finally got to throw some parents out today. Was centering a competitive match between 2 U13 mexican teams. One team wasn't happy I didn't know whistle every 50/50 challenge and clean tackles they started yelling, calling me a cheat and asking how much the other team paid me. My linesman told me at halftime they had been stepping in his path, trying to block him on purpose. I told their coach if their behavior didn't change I would be throwing them all out. 5 minutes into the second half linesman threw his flag up and told me what all the yelling they were doing in Spanish meant(no habla espanol) I went over and told them they were no longer allowed to disrespect me or the kids on the field. Removed ~10 of them and the game continued without a rude or disparaging word from anyone, parent or player.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2013 04:48
|
|
|
Trip report: pretty low-stress mostly. Was a 3-0 win to the home team, yellow-carded one girl for tripping after she'd been cleanly beaten (probably should've had a word with her instead of carding her - she went studs-first into a different player's ankle a few minutes later so I had a word with her then). Possibly should've given a penalty to the away team in the 89th minute - their player had the ball in the box, moving away from goal. Goalie was between her and the goal, with a defender pretty close as well. Attacker went down but I didn't see much contact, so I called play on. Turns out the goalie ankle-tapped her (with me 15 metres away with a clear line of sight) and I didn't see it. Whoops. Now I have to submit a form for the card, plus figure out if I need to submit a match report. Ugh. PS: New boots have flayed the skin off the back of my heel. Owie. e: managed to forget to start my stopwatch in both halves.  Made it fun when the third goal was scored at 2:11 and we started the second half at 1:52, eventually figured out that meant 64'.
Thel fucked around with this message at 06:17 on Apr 7, 2013 |
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2013 05:32
|
|
|
Congrats on getting through your first game. One of us, one of us, etc. Keep at it, and make sure to bring back your best stories for us! Some of my early "war stories" make me cringe when I remember them, but I learned a lot from them and they have made me a better referee, so I'm grateful for them.Thel posted:- I've bought a referee's wallet (with game sheet and card slots) - do you guys take the cards out and put them in separate pockets, or just leave them in the wallet? I'm thinking (since my outfit has like six pockets): As far as my system, it is a bit much, but I'll go over it in case you think of a way to adapt it for you. Everyone has a different personality and the same goes for what works for us as referees. I developed this over a few years from observing other referees and trying out a few different things for me. Anyway, I have a yellow card in front right shorts pocket and red card in back right. Those are my "quick" cards. If I need to have a card out RIGHT NOW so everyone can see what's coming and hopefully deter further misconduct, I go to the shorts. Else, I have a yellow and a red both in my right shirt pocket. That's designed to give me the extra second or so to undo the velcro and get under the flap to decide "Does that really warrant a card?" or "Yellow or red?" if I'm on the fence. If I decide not to go for a card [The only time I haven't come out with a card was for dissent a couple of times, where I turned it into a very public AC instead], it's easier to sell off as "I was just redoing the flap" rather than everyone see me stick my hand in my shorts pocket, which everyone knows means a card is coming, and then come out with nothing. In overkill, I have my wallet with scoresheet in the left shirt pocket which also has a set of cards there. Haven't ever used those, but a) the wallet is hard to write on without cards there, and b) I keep them around as a way to slow down the game, if I really need to. I can be slow and methodical, do the older EPL thing (I don't see the wallet come out much in the prem anymore) and have a longer talk and just take my time with recording everything. So...basically I have quick, normal, and slow cards. Nothing in the left side of my shorts. If I need to put my whistle up (halftime, injury stoppage and I don't want to keep holding the whistle anymore) then it goes in my front left. I used to carry a backup whistle in my back left pocket, but now I just keep my primary whistle and it's back-up connected together on their ring. One pen in the pocket with my wallet and one with my quick yellow. ----------------------- High school season is getting near the playoffs here in Arkansas. There have been a bunch of cancellations this year, so April is super packed. I have 10 games across 4 nights this week, and I know I would have games on the fifth weeknight if I hadn't specifically declared myself unavailable due to prior commitments. Then a USSF tournament on Saturday for the U9-U14 groups since they are the only club ball going on. I'm going to spend more time refereeing this week than in my University classes. Haha.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2013 18:22
|
|
|
I'm frankly amazed that it's taken this long for someone to finally ask about loadouts. I have different priorities from y'all, since I don't get teamsheets and have to take names. Top left is spare. Top right, card wallet/notebook. Has red and yellow (and an emergency pencil) in, but I never use them because reasons. Front left, pen. Front right, spares. Back left, yellow. Back right, red. When I'm going to do something, the phrase is "Over here, (miscreant)", or something like that. (Anyone here been taught the points-of-a-triangle trick, or do they not teach that in areas where you can just wave cards at them from miles away?) They join me, that's my thinking time. I can then bollock them, or decide actually that that orange was only worth a caution, or remember that he's already had one so now he's off, or getting a "behave already". Nobody but me knows until the player arrives and I go for the book, or not. Get the name soon as, put the book back away so I can use my hands to talk. Tell him something, even if it's literally just "OK, we know that's a bad one", or "calm down please". Step back (this ensures that I'm not ramming the card up his nose, which nobody likes), go to pocket, card up, count slowly to 3, card away. Also I don't take club linesmen, because as my referees' secretary will tell anyone who'll listen to him, "I will never object to any of my referees who doesn't use club linesmen, because they're all cheats." If you do have them, check with whoever tells you things what you should be allowing them to do.
|
|
#
?
Apr 7, 2013 20:24
|
|
|
Followup: hosed up my note-taking by not getting the yellow-cardee's name, now I have to sweet-talk some dude at the regional HQ into digging out the team card and finding out the name. Ah well, in the grand scheme of things it's a pretty small fuckup. Also found out I'm getting assessed this weekend.  Seems a bit rough to be assessing people when they haven't had any training yet. Seems especially rough when it's my second game ever. I'm assuming (hoping) it's going to be relatively gentle rather than being a full-on sans-lube experience.Even better is that my heels are red raw (layer of skin missing), so I'm going to be in pain the entire time I'm reffing. Joy. At least I should still be on a women's game this week so I don't have to hoof it up and down the field at speed that often. Trin Tragula posted:(Anyone here been taught the points-of-a-triangle trick, or do they not teach that in areas where you can just wave cards at them from miles away?) By points of a triangle you mean a more-or-less equilateral triangle having the miscreant (and their captain) at one point, opposing captain at another point, and the referee as the third point? Over here it seems to be more along the lines of "get close enough that it's unambiguous who the card is for, talk to either them or their captain as needed". I like your process, though, particularly thinking first, talking second and card after. Trick question time: If the goalie brings down an attacker who's inside the box but moving away from the goal with the ball, what do you award? Side question: any tips for writing legibly when your hands are going numb? I don't think anyone aside from me could decode my book.
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2013 07:36
|
|
|
Thel posted:... Your story is the best story. An assessment already? That's amazing. You're going to fast track your way to international matches! Assessments are usually pretty pleasant in my experience. They didn't hide if I messed something up, but for every situation that was brought up, they have always started with "What did you see?" and then talked about how they saw it, and we discussed the merits of either side and came to a conclusion about how I could be a better referee, whether he agreed with how I saw things. I'll give the trick question a shot. Okay, assuming the trick is not that the attacker and keeper are on the same team (as in they won the ball and are now attacking out of their own penalty area), then it's a foul in the PA punishable by a direct free kick so it's a penalty kick. Here in USSF-land, we are given four D's to consider for Denying an Obvious Goal Scoring Opportunity. For DOGSO, 1) number of Defenders, 2) Distance to goal, 3) Distance to the ball, 4) Direction of play. Since they are moving away from goal, probably not going red. Not going to go yellow for a tactical foul, either, since there is no "tactic" in giving up a PK. ...the trick was they are on the same team isn't it? For your raw skin, did you wear a second set of socks underneath your referee ones? If not, maybe give that a shot. Double socking helped me out with that, but it doesn't seem like it works for everyone.
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2013 16:17
|
|
|
The trick was it's not DOGSO because the attacker was moving away from goal. Had to explain that to the opposition coach after he said "should've red-carded the goalie for that ref" and I said "Even if it was a foul, which I didn't see, then it would've been just a penalty, no card."
|
|
#
?
Apr 8, 2013 23:01
|
|
|
Points of a triangle is a trick you use when you need to talk to someone for anything more serious than a quick word on the run. Chasing players around is a big honking signal to everyone else that you lack authority; but you standing still and calling him to you makes him feel like a naughty schoolboy, and makes you look like an officious teacher (and then you're in a huge heap of shite when you encounter someone who's in a real strop and refuses to budge). Start moving, point to the green spot, tell him "over there, 6" and meet him somewhere in the vague area. You're asserting authority and getting him away from the opponent he's just kicked by moving him; but you're not looking officious because you're also going somewhere, and he's far more likely to comply if you're both going somewhere, rather than you ordering him to come to where you are. And, in the worst-case scenario where he doesn't want to know, it still looks a bit poo poo when you just curve your path gently over to him, but much less so than having a ten-yard staring contest. It's not necessary to do that rigidly, either; an alternative if the triangle geography doesn't seem appropriate (usually when right after the foul, he becomes the centre of some handbags that you need to go over to and blow your whistle down some earholes to sort out, and so you end up very close to the guy you need to talk to) is to point over your shoulder and start walking backwards and slightly sideways. It's less optimal than a good triangle spot, but it's still better than insisting "you will walk and I will stand still", or chasing people round the park like you've fallen into a FIFA International Soccer nightmare. (If you have to deal with two or more players, triangle the first one and then use the captains to bring you anyone else.) Trin Tragula fucked around with this message at 11:44 on Apr 9, 2013 |
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2013 00:44
|
|
|
Call me what you will, but I've done only a handful of games solo for youth rec, and probably a few dozen duals for high school games. Every other game I've used a diagonal, and I'd like to keep it that way. Some leagues (Latino, sorry to say) I wouldn't do without a diagonal for backup. I've been an official since 2001 (well, active for 6-7 of those years) but I started up doing youth premier games again a few months ago after I moved back into town. This week I was assigned my first two solo adult centers. Women's Open, divisions 5 and 3. And I'm getting nerves for the first time in a long time. I'm sure I can handle it, but maybe some of you could give me game management tips for soloing? I absolutely hate soloing. It's probably been 10 years since I've done it. Bio-Hazard fucked around with this message at 08:45 on Apr 9, 2013 |
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2013 08:14
|
|
|
Bio-Hazard posted:Call me what you will, but I've done only a handful of games solo for youth rec, and probably a few dozen duals for high school games. Every other game I've used a diagonal, and I'd like to keep it that way. Some leagues (Latino, sorry to say) I wouldn't do without a diagonal for backup. I've been an official since 2001 (well, active for 6-7 of those years) but I started up doing youth premier games again a few months ago after I moved back into town. The womens game is quite a bit slower than the men's. Like here we have 6 female divisions and 17 male divisions, and the second womens division is about the same speed as I was playing last season (15th div mens). The only tip I can give you for soloing is the ref ABC: Always Be Confident. Even if you get second thoughts half a second after blowing the whistle, you're committed and gotta see it through. Also close offside calls are literally impossible to make unless you have eyes in the back of your head and perfect positioning. Don't sweat it if you get it wrong, but lean towards calling it rather than not calling it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 9, 2013 14:27
|
|
|
Had my second game today. Wasn't assessed which is a shame because I did pretty well. Was talking to a few of the players afterward (one I know from another sport, and one is the wife of a coworker) and they were like "Was that *really* your second game? Wow". Current mood:  Going to take a week off because I have a busy weekend and also my feet are loving killing me right now. e: Didn't give a yellow card for a tackle that, in retrospect, was definitely reckless. Ah well. That was literally the only thing I did wrong today so I'm pretty happy. Was also the only contentious part of proceedings, too - no other serious fouls. (Well technically I did call one ball out over the goal line as a goal kick when their coach was yelling for a corner, but meh, gently caress the spectators they don't know poo poo.) Thel fucked around with this message at 12:19 on Apr 14, 2013 |
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2013 12:17
|
|
Trin Tragula posted:Points of a triangle is a trick you use when you need to talk to someone for anything more serious than a quick word on the run. Chasing players around is a big honking signal to everyone else that you lack authority; but you standing still and calling him to you makes him feel like a naughty schoolboy, and makes you look like an officious teacher (and then you're in a huge heap of shite when you encounter someone who's in a real strop and refuses to budge). This is seriously one of the most important concepts or abilities that make good refs look good. I'd say that just having very good dynamics both within the triangle of you and your ARs, and the ability to know how and where to discipline players or be at certain points. The FIFA ref running from across the field to pull out the card is something that gets me every time. Also, if you're not rockin properly pocketed kits, you don't get to look cool writing things down. I'm a big fan of using a red-colored laminated scorecard (and the back) to take notes on things. I only use it when I caution somebody but am not carding them, or when I notice something going on. I think it's the combination of having red (and yellow) cards out and taking unknown notes that together give the impression of "ref is paying attention." After the first few times of calling something, walking away, and then having somebody ask "which player fouled him? What number?" and having to look and say "uhhhh that one," I never went anywhere without something to write notes on. I carry the following: - Fancy USSF Coin (the thicker one) - Laminate + fine point sharpie, right pocket - Yellow Card/Red Card (and blue, but that's for a TBD joke one day) simple fold, left shirt pocket - Scorecard + official game sheet (right pocket) - Proper main whistle with wrist clip (I have the habit of idly swinging it around during stoppage) - Backup whistle or shrill whistle in case the first one either gets hosed/lost (has happened) - 2nd watch (for AR1, in case mine goes off) - Proper, nice pen for final post-game scoresheet signing Anyway - I'm changing the name of this thread to something more general, as right now I may not be a ref. I honestly don't know, and I'm pretty bummed about it, as I was back in the swing of things and working a "fun" amount of games. I wish I had more to put in this thread as an update, but right now it's all bad news. I'm still sort of getting a feel for where everything stands, but I may have been offered up to the administration without my knowledge to basically have a very, very controversial game go away. I don't know all the details, and I had/have numerous people that are officials and tournament organizers who offered contact info in case I somehow ended up under the microscope over this game, but it seems like it may be too little too late. As much as it may seem lame, when people crowd you (even as an AR) and threaten to kick your rear end, and the parents/crowd are arguing and one side is sheltered you from the other - terminate the game. The end result of what happens is far, far worse than explaining that your ARs were being surrounded by gang members and threatened. But, being the AR in this situation, I didn't have the option of terminating the game until it sort of...terminated itself. That whole thing about parking in the closest spot to the field, and being prepared to just loving run? No joke. I'm finding out today what the end result/final ruling was, but I may be getting charged with a violation of code of ethics. What for, I'm not sure, but - I was told that they're deciding this today. I really, really wish I had just chosen the other side of the field, since I'd been on the crowd side the game before. TL;DR summary - bad things happened with a center referee who was racist and also unable/unwilling to card any player for anything, at all, including closed-fist punches by players announcing "sir I'm attempting to get a red card sir!" - terminate the game.
|
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2013 23:37
|
|
|
AVBrafaDiMatteo posted:TL;DR summary - bad things happened with a center referee who was racist and also unable/unwilling to card any player for anything, at all, including closed-fist punches by players announcing "sir I'm attempting to get a red card sir!" - terminate the game. Jesus. Care to elaborate at all? That sounds crazy. What are they disciplining you for?
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2013 23:47
|
|
|
Dude! Update? That sounds like a lovely loving situation no matter what the final outcome. Glad you made it out ok but drat.
|
|
#
?
Apr 24, 2013 23:39
|
|
|
Trin Tragula posted:Points of a triangle is a trick you use when you need to talk to someone for anything more serious than a quick word on the run. Chasing players around is a big honking signal to everyone else that you lack authority; but you standing still and calling him to you makes him feel like a naughty schoolboy, and makes you look like an officious teacher (and then you're in a huge heap of shite when you encounter someone who's in a real strop and refuses to budge). I like this out on the wings. I haven't incorporated it into my game for around the center circle and more in-field, but I really should. I'll focus on dong that for the few games left this season I have. AVBrafaDiMatteo posted:... I find it crazy that your center didn't back you up when you were threatened by terminating the game or, at the very least, removing the people doing the threatening. Being a very scrawny white man, if that were happening to me and I was getting no support, I would start to consider strongly the possibility of leaving and calling the assignor right then and there to explain exactly what happened and why I was gone. If the players aren't safe (lightning, unanchored goals) you don't play, and the same is true for the referees. But how exactly did you end up getting charged with an ethics violation? What happened? I know you didn't know when you originally posted it, but I'm hoping you've heard something by now.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2013 17:13
|
|
|
Had my first men's game (men's div 4, with prem/central above that, so effectively div 6) today - again, no ARs. Made a mess of a few calls (blew for offside, look to my right and there's a defender scratching his rear end on the 6) plus one very hotly disputed non-call for a penalty. Attacker and defender shoulder-to-shoulder, both kick at the ball as the keeper dives and both players plus the ball land up going into the keeper, entire attacking team shouts it should've been a penalty. That attacking team was a complete pack of wankers though, the oval office factor is significantly higher in the men's game. Thinking about warning whoever refs them next week that they're a pack of assholes. Also: going the other way, attacker kicks the ball around the defender (this is about ten yards outside the box), defender trips the attacker but the goalie would've easily won the race to the ball any which way. That's not DOGSO, right? Both teams were getting in my ear about that. e: Just for the record I don't have any posters, but if I did they'd be of Pierluigi Collina, not Webb. 
Thel fucked around with this message at 09:56 on Apr 27, 2013 |
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2013 09:37
|
|
|
Tell them to gently caress off. (Politely.)
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2013 16:41
|
|
|
Trin Tragula posted:Tell them to gently caress off. I feel like this should be in the OP somewhere.
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2013 22:56
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 9, 2024 12:49 |
|
|
[quote="chaoslord" post="4ourn14813184"] I like this out on the wings. I haven't incorporated it into my game for around the center circle and more in-field, but I really should. I'll focus on dong that for the few games left this season I have. I find it crazy that your center didn't back you up when you were threatened by terminating the game or, at the very least, removing the people doing the threatening. Being a very scrawny white man, if that were happening to me and I was getting no support, I would start to consider strongly the possibility of leaving and calling the assignor right then and there to explain exactly what happened and why I was gone. If the players aren't safe (lightning, unanchored goals) you don't play, and the same is true for the referees. But how exactly did you end up getting charged with an ethics violation? What happened? I know you didn't know when you originally posted it, but I'm hoping you've heard something by now. [/quote] So technically I was under review for the game, as the center had apparently tried to dump the whole thing in my lap. I had called the assignor and said what the gently caress, did you hear about this game yet; her response was that if it was so bad maybe I should quit, as there were a lot of people who'd be glad to take my place. I realized she wasn't quitting, and agreed to drop her assignments, I'll send in an email when I have time. In the polite way....I said gently caress off, and got the expected an attempt on my ref career. I cited some previous things and violation of ethics on her behalf, and one of the higher ups (in all caps!) instead said that I was now in violation of the referee code of conduct, and that any communication is to be strictly through them. I asked if, given the circumstances and the now clarified events of the disaster game whether I was free to work with the other existing assignors I had, and got no reply. I signed a code of conduct printout and re-emailed, and it's all good. However, a good 75% of the games are through this assignor, so....I'm sort of hosed on getting assignments right now. A few good people had been called and questioned about the game at my suggestion, and the overwhelming opinion seemed to be that the center was loving horrible and that he had decided to battle with me rather make calls, however obvious they were. TL;DR - called assignor, got some lip, quit, had email attempt to bury me so I wouldn't talk about the game, I did it anyway, and after a lengthy review it's now all good.....sort of. The assignor I like working for doesn't have much going on for a while. It seems like it was years ago, and honestly - dumping that assignor and those games was almost like breaking up with a lovely girlfriend who manipulates you in to spending all your time with her. Having now spent 5..6? weeks without any games, I'm much more inspired to go get a coaching license and pick up like a u13-15 team from a scrappy part of town. I've been re-reading Little League Confidential, and also put a lot of random poo poo on to paper about the bizarre hosed up world of youth sports. Maybe it's worse here than in other areas, but the parents' insanity over their kid's soccer performance, or inevitable lack of Messi skills when they hit 14 or 15 (the age natural skill either shines or fades away) has left me just  so many times I can't even remember. While it's annoying as hell reffing games, I've almost started to see the whole ref experience (looking back from the cert class stuff to now) as a weird adventure in to the psyche of a place that has little room for somebody that, in order, values: 1. Fair Play 2. Humor/Fun (if possible, 3. Competitive Support But - that's enough of that - I'll get back out there as soon as I can, and as unfair and lovely as it is, the whole thing is a black mark on my record. My goal to be on the Selected Group of Referees is definitely 10000x more difficult now. I was thinking about the triangle and the whole authority thing and realized that one thing that nobody has brought up is which referees in the PL/wherever they actually think are awesome. I'm sure what actually is going on is far from what it looks like, but I swear to god Phil Dowd always looks super smug and seems to be amused by the players giving him the sales pitches on how they totally didn't do that thing he just saw from 5 yards away. I've started trying to actually pay attention to what calls the different PL refs seem to make, or what their style is, but that guy looks like one of the players just told him a dirty joke half the time he's out on the field. As lame as it sounds - do any of you have a favorite referee? I can't believe that he passed and is able to still pass the fitness tests to be where he is, but - I submit Dowd as the funniest ref in the PL:  This is often why I find him great:  Anyway, I feel like a dick for not finishing the update on that game. I've been trying to find YouTube footage of it, or something, but so far I've come up empty. I know for a fact that at least 20 people took a picture of a massive divit (probably the size of brick) that came out of the pitch after a massive tackle on a smaller player that literally flipped him over and put a fat cleat mark on his leg.
|
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2013 04:45
|
|