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Autumncomet posted:And who is "Arya Stark"? I can't remember if it's ever said outright, but yeah, it's Jeyne Poole. Edit: Fixed, sorry about that. McCloud24 fucked around with this message at 21:54 on Mar 31, 2013 |
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Mar 31, 2013 20:27
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Might want to put that quote in spoilers.
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Mar 31, 2013 20:31
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McCloud24 posted:I can't remember if it's ever said outright, but yeah, it's Jeyne Poole. Were the Pooles even a high born family? I thought her dad was a servant. I would think her mannerisms would give her away, just like Sansas might give herself away
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Mar 31, 2013 21:36
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CatchrNdRy posted:Were the Pooles even a high born family? I thought her dad was a servant. I would think her mannerisms would give her away, just like Sansas might give herself away Not a servant, a steward. It's one of the most important roles in a highborn household, and Jeyne is correspondingly well-educated and well-born.
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Mar 31, 2013 21:47
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In It For The Tank posted:Not a servant, a steward. It's one of the most important roles in a highborn household, and Jeyne is correspondingly well-educated and well-born. This, but even if that weren't the case, it wouldn't matter much: Roose Bolton holds no illusions about whether or not he actually has Arya. He just needs a girl who could pass for roughly her age and the basic things that people would know about how she looked, brown hair, etc. IIRC, he's fairly certain that the real Arya is dead at this point, so no one is expecting her to come back and say, no, that isn't me.
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Mar 31, 2013 22:05
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Read through this series over the last few months, after having friends talk about the books for god knows how long. ADWD thoughts (spoilers, plots...etc): I don't believe GRRM didn't want to end the book exactly as he did. I'm sure he felt bad about never mentioning Sansa but that he left the battle in the ice as he did seemed like a pretty clear intent to have people antsy for the few years he takes to write the next book, wondering just what happened there. Jon Snow's end (unless there was some serious intervention, like he pulls a Beric thanks to Melisande) just seemed kind of dull. They don't like his plans so they betray him in front of a rampaging giant and with lots of wildlings around that hate the Watch but might feel some level of debt to Jon for letting them come south of the wall rather than having to try and fight through the watch and Stannis's troop while the Others closed in from behind. The way that went down pissed me off more than the Red Wedding, if nothing else I guess it shows he just couldn't take and follow advice (keep ghost near always, knives in the dark..etc) despite any appearance of him growing while in command.
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Apr 2, 2013 02:00
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McCloud24 posted:This, but even if that weren't the case, it wouldn't matter much: Roose Bolton holds no illusions about whether or not he actually has Arya. He just needs a girl who could pass for roughly her age and the basic things that people would know about how she looked, brown hair, etc. IIRC, he's fairly certain that the real Arya is dead at this point, so no one is expecting her to come back and say, no, that isn't me. I wouldn't be surprised if the Boltons had Poole killed as soon as she gave Ramsey an heir and a "legitimate" claim to Winterfell; we've seen that Ramsey doesn't have much regard for his wives."
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Apr 2, 2013 20:29
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Evil Fluffy posted:Read through this series over the last few months, after having friends talk about the books for god knows how long. I think he always knew how he wanted to end it but he just took too long to get everything into place. The thing about Jon Snow is that he isn't dead as long as he has Ghost because he is a warg. I think as far as the wall goes Jon will be resurrected and that the others will descend on the wall and have the real Horn of Joramun. As far as all those warnings he got he got from Melisandre, she is a foreigner from the East that worships a "false god".
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Apr 11, 2013 00:48
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Evil Fluffy posted:The way that went down pissed me off more than the Red Wedding, if nothing else I guess it shows he just couldn't take and follow advice (keep ghost near always, knives in the dark..etc) despite any appearance of him growing while in command. What I took from it is even a clever and visionary leader needs to make sure his people are willing to follow.
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Apr 13, 2013 17:59
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I, too, just finished ADWD for the first time. On the topic of Jon Snow, I'm in the camp that believes Melisandre will resurrect him and/or he might be Azor Ahai. But I am thinking his watch has ended, so to speak, and his "death" will free him up to ride south and fight Ramsay. Obviously he'll eventually have to come back to face the Others, but I think this assassination will lead to him losing his place as the Lord Commander.
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Apr 27, 2013 02:28
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Rickon Stark on Tumblr has been Gizooglifying GoT scenes and the results are just hysterical. This one is my favorite. "I ain't clownin."
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Apr 27, 2013 13:06
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Joramun posted:Rickon Stark on Tumblr has been Gizooglifying GoT scenes and the results are just hysterical. Bit hit or miss but the hits are amazing. Finest playa I eva met syncs perfectly.
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Apr 27, 2013 14:46
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Cirofren posted:Bit hit or miss but the hits are amazing. Finest playa I eva met syncs perfectly. http://rickonstark.tumblr.com/post/47361531395 This one works the best I think, if only because of Littlefinger in the last one.
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Apr 27, 2013 17:54
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http://rickonstark.tumblr.com/post/47453084374 This one was the funniest for me just because of Jon's answer.
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Apr 29, 2013 10:00
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A friend just gave me the entire series as an Easter present. I've just finished A Game of Thrones and not begun A Clash of Kings yet. A few thoughts: The Starks are generally a pain in the neck, far too modern and right-on - particularly Eddard, going to his complaining daughter's room and Christ comparisons and so on. The trouble Martin takes to make him sympathetic just irritated me, as does his reader surrogate naive newcomer schtick. I was glad he was a dead man walking from his first chapter. And his name reminded me of Cold Comfort Farm. The other reader surrogates are the children overhearing people plotting. Thanks for thinking so highly of me. Generally I liked the secondary characters most, but I enjoyed Daenarys' and Tyrion's threads; you can see the effort he puts into making them likeable, but it works. Cersei Lannister's stated motive is paper-thin, not as good as her implicit one. I really enjoyed how the multiple plot strands and chapters cut together to increase the pace. The vaunted "complex morality" is pretty a binary would/would not kill a child. There are two long descriptions of main characters climbing and then falling or nearly falling and flying imagery. Not sure what it relates to - a pun on "heights of power"? Icarus? The messenger ravens? Not dragons though. I liked the small amount of magic; even the ice zombies' attack was a bit odd. Westeros' animal life seems very American. Clearly the Wall is the 49th Parallel. Bastardry is incredibly important - even when he's acknowledged and the father thinks they're his - and Martin takes it oddly for granted. I expect it'll tie into the books' concern with leadership. Jon Snow for king? The Dothraki will have a hell of a time getting across a sea in winter using galleys (if they do come.) Martin seems unsure of how to handle them - sometimes they're generic savages and sometimes interesting and Drogo is clearly speaking a second langugae not too well.
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Apr 30, 2013 13:18
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I found Game of Thrones in a charity shop for 60p, 8 days later I'm halfway through Storm of Swords and bought the TV series. I just wanted to thank this thread for being so good with labelling spoilers, the rest of the internet on the other hand is a loving minefield. I'm really enjoying being able to read the viewpoints of so mant different characters and it's so difficult to choose who I like best. I read fairly quickly so I'll probably go back over the last few pages of this thread in a week or so and not have to worry about the forest of black bars.
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Apr 30, 2013 17:51
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CherryCat posted:I found Game of Thrones in a charity shop for 60p, 8 days later I'm halfway through Storm of Swords and bought the TV series. I just wanted to thank this thread for being so good with labelling spoilers, the rest of the internet on the other hand is a loving minefield. When you're ready, buy the next two books at the same time, then read them in this order (don't look until after you finish ASOS): http://boiledleather.com/post/25902554148/a-new-reader-friendly-combined-reading-order-for-a You'll enjoy the next two that much more when they're read in chronological order.
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Apr 30, 2013 21:45
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Azure_Horizon posted:When you're ready, buy the next two books at the same time, then read them in this order (don't look until after you finish ASOS): Thanks for that! I've already ordered a Feast for Crows but I'll just go ahead and add Dance with Dragons as well if they're best read simultaneously.
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May 1, 2013 01:54
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House Louse posted:A friend just gave me the entire series as an Easter present. I've just finished A Game of Thrones and not begun A Clash of Kings yet. A few thoughts: Only going to comment specifically on this one, and say: keep reading. In fact, it'd be interesting to make a list right now before you read any further where you list the good guys and the bad guys, and refer to it after books 3, 4, and 5. e: and based on your binary evaluation of the morality, I'm curious where you'd put Littlefinger, Varys, Robert Baratheon, Daenerys, among others. I mean Robert wanted to kill a 13 (14?) year old girl, so guess he's a bad guy. Dany killed a 16 (17?) year old boy, so she's bad. Littlefinger and Varys are both clearly morally superior to those two. None of this spoils any future events, just curious because it's certainly not how I would have ranked them after book 1. regulargonzalez fucked around with this message at 02:12 on May 1, 2013 |
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May 1, 2013 02:06
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CherryCat posted:I found Game of Thrones in a charity shop for 60p, 8 days later I'm halfway through Storm of Swords and bought the TV series. I just wanted to thank this thread for being so good with labelling spoilers, the rest of the internet on the other hand is a loving minefield. Hop on over to the TVIV spoiler thread once you're done with all five books. There's pretty decent book discussion in there most of the time, and since I think most of the posters are people who've read the books recently it never really reaches the depths of the Bad Thread. And if you're anything like me, prepare to be amazed at how many subtexts, foreshadowings and implications you never noticed 
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May 1, 2013 03:50
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webmeister posted:And if you're anything like me, prepare to be amazed at how many subtexts, foreshadowings and implications you never noticed Also some pro theories about some events that aren't what they at first seem and others that give surprising insight into what might happen in the next books such as the imminent Merman invasion and Jaqen being revealed to be Benjen Stark.
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May 1, 2013 07:46
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regulargonzalez posted:Only going to comment specifically on this one, and say: keep reading. In fact, it'd be interesting to make a list right now before you read any further where you list the good guys and the bad guys, and refer to it after books 3, 4, and 5. Well, introducing to characters fairly close together by having them both kill a kid was pretty  although things picked up afterwards. And I liked both of them better than Ned, because I found them more believable.But to be serious, I'm about 200pp into Clash of Kings and I reckon most of the characters as either unrevealed (or I'm too thick to have picked up the hints) or undecided, because they're either kids or haven't been properly tested yet. But my gut instinct is that most of the "Good" characters are apolitical (Watch, maesters) and the political ones are amoral; struggling for succession is what they do*. But I feel okay about (GoT)calling Cersei and Jaime evil for murdering Robert, basically because they started it, or so it seems. Robb (etc) are reacting and afraid, even though they've directly killed many more people. Janos Slynt and Gregor Clegane ditto, but not Joffrey or the Arryn brat because they're still kids, even if they are hosed up. Littlefinger: amoral, Varys: don't know but I like him, Robert: I'm biased because I read him as an allusion to Henry VIII, whom I hate, but I both pity him for his end and drat him for his incompetence, Dany: She's not a good person, but understandable; I like her Sandor Clegane: Interestingly cynical Sansa: a Good person Tyrion: probably the most virtuous political character, but not spotless So there you go. I bet you're laughing already. Is (GoT)Ned's death considered a major spoiler, by the way? It seemed obvious to me. *Westeros seems to be very short on law. And I make big allowances for characters' society when I think about them. I'm not too bothered by the knights when they slap Sansa, even though I'd hate it in a modern novel. Edit: Fixed an unmarked spoiler, but aren't they OK up to the end of A Game of Thrones per the OP? Safety Biscuits fucked around with this message at 22:04 on May 1, 2013 |
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May 1, 2013 21:40
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I'm chuckling you even had to ask that. Yes, you should edit that with spoilers for the new crowd!
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May 1, 2013 21:47
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House Louse posted:But to be serious, I'm about 200pp into Clash of Kings and I reckon most of the characters as either unrevealed (or I'm too thick to have picked up the hints) or undecided, because they're either kids or haven't been properly tested yet. But my gut instinct is that most of the "Good" characters are apolitical (Watch, maesters) and the political ones are amoral; struggling for succession is what they do*. But I feel okay about (GoT)calling Cersei and Jaime evil for murdering Robert, basically because they started it, or so it seems. Robb (etc) are reacting and afraid, even though they've directly killed many more people. Janos Slynt and Gregor Clegane ditto, but not Joffrey or the Arryn brat because they're still kids, even if they are hosed up. This isn't a spoiler, but a correction to one of your points that you may have misunderstood -- it's from aGoT, so like I said it's not a spoiler: Jaime was not involved in Robert's death at all, unless you mean extremely indirectly by way of pushing Bran out a window, and even then it's a reach imo
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May 1, 2013 22:33
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regulargonzalez posted:This isn't a spoiler, but a correction to one of your points that you may have misunderstood -- it's from aGoT, so like I said it's not a spoiler: Jaime was not involved in Robert's death at all, unless you mean extremely indirectly by way of pushing Bran out a window, and even then it's a reach imo I was assuming that he and Cersei were plotting together, so even if he wasn't there himself he's still culpable.
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May 2, 2013 09:14
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Cirofren posted:Also some pro theories about some events that aren't what they at first seem and others that give surprising insight into what might happen in the next books such as the imminent Merman invasion and Jaqen being revealed to be Benjen Stark. I'm going to have to go look up these theories because neither of them make any sense at all. Even taking in to account patchface's ramblings are prophecies covered by his (supposed) madness, they don't seem to imply that there's going to be some Aquaman-style invasion of the land; especially with winter finally having arrived. If anything it sounds more like the white walkers can or might simply go through the water and around the wall at some point. I would be surprised if patchface isn't basically a herald for the Others considering the stuff he says would be in line with their attack, especially if they can just walk along the ocean floor since they're not living creatures that'd have to worry about things like breathing. That said, I just don't get the other theory at all.
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May 6, 2013 02:32
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He's not being serious  It's a reference to two of the more far-fetched fan theories (Varys is a merman, Jaqen is anybody and everybody)
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May 6, 2013 05:35
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A Clash of Kings: Lots of wheelspinning, but well done. His foreshadowing is clumsy and I wish he'd do more with his imagery; there was a desription of Tully's hand comparing the veins to the nearby rivers which could really have done with expansion; ditto the Iron Throne. The deaths are much more shocking than in AGoT. Interesting to see the war/action parts of the story more prominent; the thrust of the warfare before seemed to be a matter of alliances and persuading people to your side, which is diminished. Oddly, Westeros has very little in the way of law. Apparent plot hole: a conversation in Bran's subplot states that bastards can be heirs, meaning Ned was treasonous by refusing to support Joffrey.
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May 6, 2013 19:11
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House Louse posted:Apparent plot hole: a conversation in Bran's subplot states that bastards can be heirs, meaning Ned was treasonous by refusing to support Joffrey.
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May 6, 2013 19:13
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House Louse posted:Apparent plot hole: a conversation in Bran's subplot states that bastards can be heirs, meaning Ned was treasonous by refusing to support Joffrey. Not quite sure what you're getting at here, as Joffrey isn't Robert's bastard. He isn't Robert's anything. e: dang, beaten by a parrot
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May 6, 2013 19:15
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The Berzerker posted:e: dang, beaten by a parrot 
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May 6, 2013 19:16
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Star War Sex Parrot posted:In what way is Joffrey Robert's bastard? None, but he was still Robert's designated heir and if bastardry doesn't disqualify him from that, isn't Ned skating on thin ice? He's basically the royal protege or adopted son. I dunno, the laws are very vague. Safety Biscuits fucked around with this message at 20:33 on May 6, 2013 |
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May 6, 2013 20:22
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House Louse posted:None, but he was still Robert's designated heir and if bastardry doesn't disqualify him from that, isn't Ned skating on thin ice? He's basically the royal protege. I dunno, the laws are very vague. I think you're confusing the term bastard - a lot of the time it's use to designate unwanted/unrecognized children, but a bastard really is just a child that was conceived outside marriage. That's why Roose refers to Ramsay as his bastard and why Edric Storm is Robert's bastard as well, even if they acknowledges the kids are theirs. Joffrey isn't Robert's bastard, he's Jaime's. He isn't heir to the thrown once you take that into account, he's just a pretender (or usurper if you want to look at it from Stannis' point of view). Also I think Ned changed Robert's will that he would guard the throne until his son cold sit on it to his true heir, so he' not even Robert's designated heir anymore (though Robert died not knowing that, but Ned pretty much wanted his friend to go that way).
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May 6, 2013 20:39
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House Louse posted:None, but he was still Robert's designated heir and if bastardry doesn't disqualify him from that, isn't Ned skating on thin ice? He's basically the royal protege or adopted son. I dunno, the laws are very vague. A bastard is still 100% your blood, just not related to your spouse as designated by the gods. Joffrey is Cersei's bastard, not Roberts. He has no legitimate claim to the throne, even if bastards were allowed.
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May 6, 2013 20:39
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House Louse posted:None, but he was still Robert's designated heir and if bastardry doesn't disqualify him from that, isn't Ned skating on thin ice? He's basically the royal protege or adopted son. I dunno, the laws are very vague. He is the queen's bastard, not the king's. That means 100% nothing in terms of succession, as titles and lands pass down via the paternal family. (does poo poo we learn about halfway through book one really need to be spoiled?)
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May 6, 2013 20:39
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Well, if it hasn't come up again, I was wrong. I think Martin's been sloppy - it's only the book's main plot point, and important to the theme, so would it have killed Martin to write "Joffrey has no legal right to the throne"? However, Ned did change the will and state that Stannis was the heir even though he knew there was at least one bastard he knew of, Gendry, who might or might not have had a claim. It's ironic that I'm the one whining for more detail in a fantasy novel.
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May 6, 2013 22:07
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Bastards have 0 claim to any form of title unless legitimized. Gendry and any other of Robert's bastards are completely irrelevant to the line of succession, Stannis is 100% the legitimate heir.
Kainser fucked around with this message at 22:13 on May 6, 2013 |
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May 6, 2013 22:11
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Kainser posted:Bastards have 0 claim to any form of title unless legitimized. Gendry and any other of Robert's bastards are completely irrelevant to the line of succession, Stannis is 100% the legitimate heir. And the only way for that to happen is for a king to give them recognition, as happens later in the series and is offered (then turned down) in one particular case. It also means that only Robert (or now Stannis) could legitimize Joffery and even then it would only be to make him a Lannister. I imagine that Tywin would sooner make Tyrion his heir than admit to and acknowledge his kids loving each other and that his grandchilden are all the result of incest.
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May 6, 2013 22:23
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House Louse posted:Well, if it hasn't come up again, I was wrong. I think Martin's been sloppy - it's only the book's main plot point, and important to the theme, so would it have killed Martin to write "Joffrey has no legal right to the throne"? However, Ned did change the will and state that Stannis was the heir even though he knew there was at least one bastard he knew of, Gendry, who might or might not have had a claim. It's ironic that I'm the one whining for more detail in a fantasy novel. This isn't Martin being sloppy at all. ACOK has numerous characters pointing out the illegitimacy of Joffrey considering he isn't Robert's child. It's literally spelled out for you at the end of Game of Thrones, too.
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May 7, 2013 01:12
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Yeah I can't say I had any problem picking up on the fact that Joffrey's parentage made him ineligible to be king. He's not Robert's true son and he was born of incest on top of it.
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May 7, 2013 01:19
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