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CaseFace McGee posted:Don't do this. You can fry the Eden's high-frequency driver if you do this, and potentially the woofers depending on how much your amp clips. Also, it's kinda bad for the amp for that protection circuit to kick in. Of course, it's not nearly as bad as if the circuit didn't exist and you just made the amp overload. When the amp does that, it's trying to tell you that you've maxed it out. If you need more volume, adjust your EQ. Turn down your lowest frequencies, play around with the kids so you cut through more. Amp clipping won't kill woofers, woofer clipping kills woofers. What's the impedance of the cabinet, and the output impedance of your amp? It's also possible that the protection circuit is faulty and firing before it needs to.
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Apr 23, 2013 13:19
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TopherCStone posted:Amp clipping won't kill woofers, woofer clipping kills woofers. What's the impedance of the cabinet, and the output impedance of your amp? It's also possible that the protection circuit is faulty and firing before it needs to. Yeah, this is pretty much what I'm thinking. Especially considering all of the extra features that are packed into that little amp (onboard effects, tuner, "Tone Print"); could absolutely be some faulty circuitry. Minimum load is 4ohms, and looking at Eden's site, the cab appears to be 4 as well. So really, there shouldn't be any problems between the two. I'd get the amp checked out. Or if you want to troubleshoot it some more, do you have access to another 4ohm cabinet with enough overhead where you can test it some more? Scarf fucked around with this message at 14:53 on Apr 23, 2013 |
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Apr 23, 2013 14:50
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TopherCStone posted:Amp clipping won't kill woofers, woofer clipping kills woofers. Yeah, that. One thing that you could do is a voltage test. That can tell you what wattage is being used. I tested my voltage when building my first cab, and it helped me determine the problem was with the cab, not the head. Turns out I reversed the polarity of one of the woofers... If you take it to a tech, they should be able to test that to see how much power it takes to activate the shutoff circuit. Otherwise, you can do it yourself if you have the equipment.
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Apr 23, 2013 18:52
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I did buy it a couple weeks after their recall, so I might have got a unit that had been on the shelf for awhile. I'll look into service. The cabinet is fine, the owner told me he recently drove it pretty good with a bigger SVT amp. I guess I don't know how loud I can expect it to get before it reaches max output. I can turn it about as high as I'd want to play it to be present in the mix (without EQing which I don't really know much about), but if I play aggressively it'll turn off.
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Apr 23, 2013 19:14
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CaseFace McGee posted:Yeah, that. How would you do this? I have a multimeter...
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Apr 23, 2013 19:43
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Trillest Parrot posted:How would you do this? I have a multimeter... I guess it 's easier to do with a homemade cab... there may be warranties to void if you open the Eden to get access to the contact points. When I did mine, I just bridged my multimeter across the lugs at the output of my crossover for each section, or on the speaker lugs themselves depending on what I was testing. I'm sure there's threads about it on Harmony Central or something, but I can't check at the moment. I used Bill FitzMaurice's forum when I did mine. The most accurate readings would be found when you run a sine wave through the amp for specific frequencies, or with pink noise. If you have a 1/4-1/8" adapter and a 1/8" patch cord, you can do this with an iPod or laptop easily. An RCA input on the amp would be even better, if you have the right cable.
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Apr 23, 2013 22:29
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TopherCStone posted:Amp clipping won't kill woofers, woofer clipping kills woofers. What's the impedance of the cabinet, and the output impedance of your amp? It's also possible that the protection circuit is faulty and firing before it needs to.
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Apr 23, 2013 23:41
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Dominoes posted:Clarify? I've heard that amp clipping damages speakers many times. What does woofer clipping mean? Amp clipping is just overdrive. Pedals do it, overdriven tubes do it, solid state amps can do it. It's just a sound. Speaker clipping is when the speaker is being pushed to hard (too much volume, too much low end, a combo of the two...). Often also referred to as "farting out" from the sound it can make, though it can manifest with pops and other sounds too. Light speaker clipping isn't necessarily bad; for example some of the tone in small Tweed Champs comes from light speaker breakup. If amp clipping damaged speakers, you'd blow your stereo speakers every time you played a rock or metal album. If amp clipping were bad, Lemmy wouldn't get through a concert without needing a recone halfway through. I do believe, however, that harsh overdrive can really hammer HF drivers like a piezo system or something in a cab. Note however that sometimes amp clipping can make it hard to hear when the speaker is straining. That's where the danger is, because you'll probably just keep happily chugging along until it stops working.
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Apr 24, 2013 03:44
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TopherCStone posted:Amp clipping is just overdrive. Pedals do it, overdriven tubes do it, solid state amps can do it. It's just a sound. Speaker clipping is when the speaker is being pushed to hard (too much volume, too much low end, a combo of the two...). Often also referred to as "farting out" from the sound it can make, though it can manifest with pops and other sounds too. Light speaker clipping isn't necessarily bad; for example some of the tone in small Tweed Champs comes from light speaker breakup.
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Apr 24, 2013 11:32
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Dominoes posted:I'm still not following - the examples you described are all preamp clipping, not poweramp. Except for where power tubes and solid state output sections can clip... Amp clipping doesn't blow speakers, and it doesn't matter where in the amp it's coming from. The only things that matters are how hard the speakers are working and if you are able to hear how hard the speakers are working
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Apr 24, 2013 12:43
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Dominoes posted:Is the Low B string supposed to suck? In the 10 years or so I've had a Stingray 5, I've never really used it because it sounds inconsistent with the other strings. Used different strings and amps. Super floppy too - I like very low action with moderately high relief; I can't keep consistent string height without the B string rattling at a much higher action than the others. I'm leaning toward this being an issue of needing a longer-than-practical scale to make it work. I personally don't find much value in the argument that it'll let you play up higher on the board: I prefer playing lower when able. I don't think the SR5 is an instrument universally praised for the quality of its B string, but you absolutely don't need 35" to get a good B. I've played tons of 34" five-strings with great B strings, and even 33" scale basses with good B's. I think a lot of it has to do with pickup placement, strings, construction "tightness," and the mass of the instrument. Overall I feel like 35" has one advantage (more focused B string) and a ton of disadvantages (higher strings sound thin and strained, extra spacing and reach to first position can lead to hand issues.) That said, you totally don't need a fiver. If you need the extra range just get a DTuner.
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Apr 25, 2013 02:49
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Alright, after being a guitarist for years and thinking that bass is just that thing in the background...I've noticed that bass is mostly in the foreground of an awesome rock\metal sound. So it's time for me to get a bitchin' bass sound. At the moment I'm using this. It's a Yamaha RBX100. It's the cheapest bass that Yamaha have available.  And I'm going DI. I dont have the funds or the room for a bass amp and cab. I'm only using it for recording, not live. What I'd really like is a fat, but neutral sorta bass tone. Something that gives a lot of weight and power, but distorted metal guitars sit on top of very nicely. I dont really have any specific examples of the bass sound I'm looking for, but if it's any help: Steve Harris from Iron Maiden has the total OPPOSITE of what I want. (Not a stab against Maiden. EVERY self respecting metalhead has to give some love to Maiden and Harris' bass sound is such an integral part of Maiden. It's just that I'm not trying to be Maiden :P). Also, I prefer a clean bass sound rather than an overdriven one. For the record: What I dislike about the bass tone I have at the moment is that it's pretty boomy. It kinda seeps into everything and colours all the other instruments in a way I dont like. Also, the rhythms aren't very distinct. EG: If I'm plucking along straight 8th notes, it sounds like one big long note rather than a string of 8th notes. It's got a good amount of weight and movement to it and I like how fat it is. So I'm looking for an upgrade that'll cost less than $1000. My theories so far ARE: #1) Buy a set of Bareknuckle Pickups: About $350 bucks after installation. I like the way the RBX plays so I'm looking purely for an upgrade to the sound. The Bareknuckles I threw into my guitar are sensational and amazing when it comes to DI\Modelling stuff. #2) Grab a Warwick Corvette Pro Series for about $800 http://www.warwickbass.com/de/Warwick--Instrumente--Made-in-Korea--Pro-Serie--Corvette.html#D0336110001354198221A3575 Sure, it's double the price of the pickups, but changing the pickups on a Yamaha RBX100 might be polishing a turd, rather than getting be bass, sonic awesome. Besides: New Bass is shiny, pretty and even though I like how the RBX plays, these Warwicks do play REALLY drat well. So: What should I look at?
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Apr 25, 2013 10:25
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Get the Warwick and never worry about a bass guitar again, ever.
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Apr 25, 2013 10:37
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You want something that will sit in a mix well with a bunch of distorted guitars and you want a clean tone. Don't be stubborn, put a bit of fuzz on there and it should give you enough edge to cut through. One of the first things that you learn as a bass player is that the tone that sounds nice coming from your amp in your bedroom isn't necessarily the tone that's going to sound nice in a full band. Especially if the band has distorted guitars and power chords.
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Apr 25, 2013 11:49
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Seventh Arrow posted:You want something that will sit in a mix well with a bunch of distorted guitars and you want a clean tone. Don't be stubborn, put a bit of fuzz on there and it should give you enough edge to cut through. One of the first things that you learn as a bass player is that the tone that sounds nice coming from your amp in your bedroom isn't necessarily the tone that's going to sound nice in a full band. Especially if the band has distorted guitars and power chords. Rightio, this advice interests me. I've always hated the sound of distorted bass, hence I've never used it with distorted guitars. Is that the trick to getting bass to sit in well with heavy guitars?
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Apr 25, 2013 13:17
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It doesn't have to be some monstro-fuzz sound like Billy Sheehan. You just need a touch of fuzz to give it that some of that heavy metal growl. I mean, you can go all the way with it if you want, but you don't necessarily need to. Bryan Beller had an article in Bass Player on this very topic, actually. I'll try to scan it when I get home from work (if I can find it). edit: found it http://www.bassplayer.com/article/strike-force-the-foundation-of-hard-rock-and-metal-bass-tone/4810 Seventh Arrow fucked around with this message at 14:05 on Apr 25, 2013 |
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Apr 25, 2013 13:58
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When EQing, cut out all the lowest frequencies. Let's say below 40hz just annihilate. All those frequencies are hardly audible and just mixing into the kick drum sound too much. Then, to avoid boominess cut your low mids a bit and for clarity boost your high mids as needed. I think the reason you may not like Steve Harris' tone is that his sound is basically all in the low mids
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Apr 25, 2013 15:27
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Found the problem, this Eden cab is actually 8 ohm, not 4ohm like the owner thought. If I could drive it that hard at 8ohm, 4ohm is going to be loud.
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Apr 25, 2013 16:44
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Seventh Arrow posted:It doesn't have to be some monstro-fuzz sound like Billy Sheehan. You just need a touch of fuzz to give it that some of that heavy metal growl. I mean, you can go all the way with it if you want, but you don't necessarily need to. Bryan Beller had an article in Bass Player on this very topic, actually. I'll try to scan it when I get home from work (if I can find it). Okay, this thing here? This is awesome. TopherCStone posted:When EQing, cut out all the lowest frequencies. Let's say below 40hz just annihilate. All those frequencies are hardly audible and just mixing into the kick drum sound too much. Then, to avoid boominess cut your low mids a bit and for clarity boost your high mids as needed. I've got a HPF set to 35hz and my high-mids are given a 2db boost. For the record: My guitars have a HPF at 75-100hz, a cut at around 300-400hz to let the bass come in a bit more and then a LPF at about 17khz. I'm gonna try to explain what I dont like about Harris' tone. I'm going to fail because I'm ATROCIOUSLY bad at describing bass sounds, but gently caress it, we've come this far. I'm not saying you're wrong, rather I'm loving clueless so here's my dodgy attempt at a clearer "explanation". For me, his bass is too middy. It groans a bit too much for my liking and interferes in with the guitars a lot. I'd prefer a solid, smooth rounding off to the bottom end of my guitars, which in turn sit on top of the bass. I like to be able to isolate each instrument in my mixes and go: "That's the bass\guitars\synth\whatever" rather than have the bass tone blend in with the guitar tone.
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Apr 25, 2013 17:04
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Don't spend $350 on pickups for a $150 bass. If you really think pickups are the problem you can get a great set to fit a PJ for $100-$150. Your first step should be to get a decent set of round wound strings. Stainless steel will give you a brighter sound and last a little longer. How are you running your DI? Having some sort of bass preamp would help a lot, whether it's an actual device or plugin. Are you playing with a pick or fingers? Your technique may need a little modification compared to what you do on guitar.
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Apr 25, 2013 17:27
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You might want to think less about the bass 'interfering' with the guitars and more about them interfering with each other. If you're dialling in a sick guitar tone and then trying to make the bass fit in around that, you might end up with the low end of the guitars stepping all over the bass's sweet spot. The bass has to get out of the way of the kick too, so just make sure you're giving it enough space to breathe. It might help to do a search on youtube for 'isolated bass track', have a listen to the actual mixed bass tones on some songs you like. What you'll probably find is a) they sound fuzzier and muddier than you thought (since the guitars are usually handling the higher frequencies) and b) they're not always that bassy either. A lot of the bass tone comes in on the attack in heavy music, and the rhythmic definition especially, so make sure you're letting that sound come through in your mix. A pick can definitely help too, but you can still get a good attack with your fingers
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Apr 25, 2013 18:40
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Good advice so far. Thanks guys  quote:Don't spend $350 on pickups for a $150 bass. If you really think pickups are the problem you can get a great set to fit a PJ for $100-$150. The pickups will cost me about $250 Australian (which are about the same price of a set of EMG bass pickups here) and it'll cost me $100-ish to get them put in. I know it's a pretty simple job to do it yourself, but I prefer paying somebody to do it properly rather than gently caress it up myself. I dont like the idea of spending more money on the pickups than what the bass cost, but that's still cheaper than a whole new bass. I'm using Ernie Ball strings of some description. They came in a bright yellow packet. I'm running it through a Universal Audio 610 Solo tube preamp and then the Amplitube Ampeg modeller. I'm also playing with a pick. I'm very conscious to hit the strings flat rather than get that nasty scratchy sound and to hit the strings with a bit of strength too. quote:You might want to think less about the bass 'interfering' with the guitars and more about them interfering with each other. If you're dialling in a sick guitar tone and then trying to make the bass fit in around that, you might end up with the low end of the guitars stepping all over the bass's sweet spot. The bass has to get out of the way of the kick too, so just make sure you're giving it enough space to breathe. The bass is definitely always going to get its chunky fingers into the guitar sounds as well as the synths I use. Complete and utter seperation would mean I'd have to have a HPF on my guitars at something like 300hz and that would sound like rear end. I'm trying to get the bass to be really supportive of all the instruments in the mix, rather than take a bit of the spotlight and\or compete with the other instruments. I'll have a listen to the isolated tracks when I get home from work tonight. Sounds like a great place to go hunting
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Apr 25, 2013 23:25
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Hammer Floyd posted:The bass is definitely always going to get its chunky fingers into the guitar sounds as well as the synths I use. Complete and utter seperation would mean I'd have to have a HPF on my guitars at something like 300hz and that would sound like rear end. I'm trying to get the bass to be really supportive of all the instruments in the mix, rather than take a bit of the spotlight and\or compete with the other instruments. That's what I mean really, especially if you've got synths in there too - they all need to give way a bit so they all work together. The ideal solo tone isn't necessarily the ideal tone in a mix, so don't be afraid to cut a notch out of your guitars' low end so you get the nice bass tone in there too. Some metal will roll off a ton of the low end, other stuff will keep some of the low frequencies for some nice chug. It depends what the bass is actually doing too - if it's basically following the guitars when they're chugging, you can lose some of the guitars' lows and give the bass more prominence. Kinda like adjusting a pedal to give the overall guitar sound a different, thicker tone. Experimenting is definitely the key though, I'd just say try some of the ideas you hate the sound of, see if you can make them work, and then decide what they bring to the sound and if even a little of that is what you want. Also I CHALLENGE YOU to write a bass-led distorted as hell song, and add guitars later. Well if you feel like, but I get the feeling it's something you'd be into!
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Apr 25, 2013 23:50
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Can anyone point me to an article or write some words about what to do with the EQ on my cab head? I've had a bit of a fiddle, but always resort to going back to the basic tone knobs.
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Apr 26, 2013 00:41
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After reuniting with my fretless jazz bass, I re-discovered why it had been set aside in the first place. I think I like the idea of a fretless bass a lot more than the actuality of such a thing. It did help bring back my love for playing again. I had been haunting local music shops and after putting my grubby mits on everything in reach, made up my mind to go with a Deluxe P-bass. Unfortunately no one had the configuration I wanted in stock. I hit up the Musician's Expo hosted by Guitar Center in Long Beach, and a very helpful young lady named Kelsea went way above and beyond the call of duty to help me get one. It was apparently not only not in stock, but the inventory systems were showing a two month back-order. She walked me over to the Fender reps, and they managed to hunt down a couple unclaimed at the factory. On top of that, she was able to cut me a really good deal on it. Easily the best GC experience I've had in over a decade. The only thing I've done so far other than play the hell out of it is to change out the factory strings for a set of tapewounds. While it sounds really good, since changing the strings there's been some buzzing on the E. Between the slight difference in strings and flying all over hell, I'm going to have a set up done on it when my next paycheck comes in. I could probably goof around on it myself, but it can't hurt to make sure everything is cool and I'd like to have this for a while before I ruin it.  
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Apr 26, 2013 04:02
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hairypanis posted:Can anyone point me to an article or write some words about what to do with the EQ on my cab head? I've had a bit of a fiddle, but always resort to going back to the basic tone knobs. What head?
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Apr 26, 2013 04:10
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drat thats a sexy bass. Have kind of always wanted a deluxe P myself. Love my Fender deluxe J.
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Apr 26, 2013 04:12
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DEUCE SLUICE posted:What head? I think he means its a head with a graphic EQ and he wants to know what frequency ranges are good to boost/cut in which situation. I used to have a good chart for that but I can't find it now
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Apr 26, 2013 13:07
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TopherCStone posted:I think he means its a head with a graphic EQ and he wants to know what frequency ranges are good to boost/cut in which situation. I used to have a good chart for that but I can't find it now I think Deuce was implying that any recommendations are going to vary depending on what exact amp-head he's wanting to adjust. Some are by default (with EQ flat) brighter than others, some sound naturally scooped, etc.
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Apr 26, 2013 14:41
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baka kaba posted:It might help to do a search on youtube for 'isolated bass track', have a listen to the actual mixed bass tones on some songs you like. What you'll probably find is a) they sound fuzzier and muddier than you thought (since the guitars are usually handling the higher frequencies) and b) they're not always that bassy either. A lot of the bass tone comes in on the attack in heavy music, and the rhythmic definition especially, so make sure you're letting that sound come through in your mix. A pick can definitely help too, but you can still get a good attack with your fingers Sorry to bring this up again, but I did that, and I found this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=On6bE0hDeXM That bass tone at 49 seconds is pretty much what I'm looking for. It's not as smooth as I'd like, but from what you guys have told me, the rough bite to it probably makes it blend in with chunky-rear end guitars better. The other slight niggle I have is that it's got a bit too much pick-attack going on. Even though I'm a pick player myself and do prefer the sound to have that extra bite, this has got a bit too much for me. However, I could probably hit the strings a bit softer or turn down the treble and it'd solve that problem. With that in mind: Is it possible to get that sorta chunky bass tone out of my P-Bass, or will a Warwick with Active J-Bass pickups suit me better? (Or this Bass which has the same type of pickups as his Wal: http://www.warwickbass.com/en/Warwick--Instruments--Made-in-China--Rockbass--Corvette--Corvette-$$--4-string--Pictures.html) H13 fucked around with this message at 02:34 on Apr 27, 2013 |
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Apr 27, 2013 01:53
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Maybe I'm crazy, but that sounds like an 8-string bass.
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Apr 27, 2013 02:10
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Just tuned my P bass to drop D and jammed out that song. Yes you can definitely make a P bass sound pretty similar to that. Just fiddle with your EQ and tone knobs. My Sansamp bass driver helped alot too. The strings on this bass aren't fresh either, alot of the tone is just in how you attack the strings IMO. :edit. Also using a pretty thick pick. Constipated fucked around with this message at 03:40 on Apr 27, 2013 |
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Apr 27, 2013 03:34
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Hammer Floyd posted:Sorry to bring this up again, but I did that, and I found this: That Wick has nothing like the pickups in a Wal. Wal pickups have independent coils for each string and a crazy filter based preamp. Complicated stuff, and nobody makes anything comparable to it in an affordable package. There was an endeavor on Talkbass to reverse engineer the pickups and preamp, but I don't know if it ever came to fruition. At any rate, I'm certain you can make a reasonable facsimile of his tone with a P-bass and some aggressive sounding roundwounds. A Sansamp can get some of that grind. From there it's just a matter of EQ, which you'll have to play with. It won't be a perfect replica, but it'll be good tribute
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Apr 27, 2013 05:03
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Rightio, so by the sounds of things, I'll probably be better off chucking in the new pickups into the Yamaha. Unless somebody knows of a bass around $700 that would definitely do the job better than my Yamaha with awesome pickups?
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Apr 28, 2013 04:21
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Hammer Floyd posted:Sorry to bring this up again, but I did that, and I found this: I own both a Wal and a MIA P-bass and I can tell you that you can get close to that tone. I have a set of quarter pounders installed on my P-bass and run it through a MXR M80 with a little gain and a fresh set of roundwounds. It'll never be exact but its close as I can get live when I don't want to bring my Wal to a shady area. edit: Hammer Floyd posted:Rightio, so by the sounds of things, I'll probably be better off chucking in the new pickups into the Yamaha. If you want an excuse to buy a new bass that sounds close to a Wal for cheaper, find yourself a nice used Rick and boost the gain and mid's on your amp.
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Apr 28, 2013 04:25
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Hammer Floyd posted:Rightio, so by the sounds of things, I'll probably be better off chucking in the new pickups into the Yamaha. IMO paying a bunch of money to slap new pups in a cheapie Yamaha is a poor use of your money. If you've got $700ish to spend on a bass you can find something actually good to start with instead of something cheap you had to make passable. Shopping around for a used American P-bass is for sure the better option.
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Apr 28, 2013 05:10
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Hammer Floyd posted:Sorry to bring this up again, but I did that, and I found this: It's worth pointing out that bass is definitely overdriven - even if it's a bit too distorted for your liking, there's a lot of gain there bringing out the feistiness. It's like with guitar, a completely clean guitar tone (as much as that exists) doesn't have the same power and energy as one with the gain up a bit. It gives you some higher harmonics and maybe a bit of more natural compression, and it gives the bass more forward momentum and more presence in the sound. You know what I mean, I'm just pointing out the gain isn't necessarily an effect on the instrument, so often you'll have some without thinking 'that bass sounds overdriven'. If you play your bass with and without you'll get an idea of how the sound 'feels' and you'll start to notice it more in songs. Even though you say it's a bit much in that song, did you think the same when you were listening to the full mix? Or is it only when the bass is isolated that you go 'hmm nah'? That's why I recommended it really, so you can hear the not-always-ideal solo tone that fits real nice in the finished song
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Apr 28, 2013 17:24
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baka kaba posted:It's worth pointing out that bass is definitely overdriven - even if it's a bit too distorted for your liking, there's a lot of gain there bringing out the feistiness. It's like with guitar, a completely clean guitar tone (as much as that exists) doesn't have the same power and energy as one with the gain up a bit. It gives you some higher harmonics and maybe a bit of more natural compression, and it gives the bass more forward momentum and more presence in the sound. You know what I mean, I'm just pointing out the gain isn't necessarily an effect on the instrument, so often you'll have some without thinking 'that bass sounds overdriven'. If you play your bass with and without you'll get an idea of how the sound 'feels' and you'll start to notice it more in songs. I remember from my days of Tool fandom that he uses a clean signal into one rig and an always-dirty signal (Turbo RAT) into another rig. Also, the Wal bass is the real tone monster there - throw another bass in the same signal chain and it will sound almost nothing like it. For a cheap alternative, look into a pedal with a blend knob - such as the Heavy Electronics El Oso - or buy a Boss LS-2 and use whatever dirt you please.
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Apr 29, 2013 04:49
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Kat6WNUS-k I mean, his setup seems pretty simple...  edit: it's really great being into his playing, but a band like Tool is so shaped in terms of sounds, and I doubt that his bass tone would sound as good without Danny's drums and Adam's guitar filling in the spaces around it, if you get my drift. algebra testes fucked around with this message at 11:38 on Apr 29, 2013 |
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Apr 29, 2013 11:33
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Does anyone have experience with peavey bass amps like this one? http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B008YAI014/ref=mw_dp_mpd?pd=1&qid=1367246405&sr=8-3 From what I was looking at it looks like one of the cheapest amps I could get for gigging in a loud punk band. Is there something better at the same price level I missed?
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Apr 29, 2013 15:43
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