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Unreal_One posted:Hell, they could have their own plane by 1912! It bothers me when people have no idea that poverty isn't a static concept. A color TV was a luxury in the 70's but a flat screen TV today is hardly a luxury - it is the only thing on the market. Same thing with smart phones. Just because an old person who doesn't like technology is happy with their land-line doesn't mean poor people should have smart phones. They are pretty much the most useful thing a person can own these days.
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# ? Apr 30, 2013 03:51 |
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# ? May 28, 2024 23:12 |
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Adam Smith posted:“A linen shirt … is, strictly speaking, not a necessary of life. The Greeks and Romans lived, I suppose, very comfortably though they had no linen. But in the present times, through the greater part of Europe, a creditable day-labourer would be ashamed to appear in public without a linen shirt, the want of which would be supposed to denote that disgraceful degree of poverty which, it is presumed, nobody can well fall into without extreme bad conduct.”
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# ? Apr 30, 2013 05:29 |
VideoTapir posted:Dear loving god this response. Every point missed. No understanding of what everything costs. I like that this guy thinks that every state has a deposit on their cans.
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# ? Apr 30, 2013 05:43 |
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I'll never not love people so far up their own rear end they don't understand that 'just don't be poor, DUH' isn't an answer. And by 'love' I mean 'want to throw out a window'.
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# ? Apr 30, 2013 07:40 |
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VideoTapir posted:Adam Smith posted: The worst response I saw was this one (cross posting from the Freeper thread). Guess poor people aren't really poor.
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# ? Apr 30, 2013 07:56 |
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Boxman posted:I don't know a ton about the issue.but I like to learn- what is that criticism? Despite being an activist opponent of white privilege in society, he's benefited from it a whole lot. There's plenty of minority anti-racism activists, but he's the one that sells all the books and gets all the media attention and speaking gigs. It's something he admits to; he's no more knowledgeable or competent than his minority colleagues, and many of them were making the same arguments long before he was, but not many people were listening until a white man came along. It helps spread awareness because he's able to reach audiences that would have no interest in listening to an actual black person talking about how his race is being held back by society, but it has downsides. He prevents minority scholars and activists from getting attention that they deserve just as much as he does, and keeps POCs from being the spokespeople for their own movement. I think that's what watt par was referring to. I hope I did an ok job at explaining it. Like he said though, that college republican misses the mark, because he's not using the criticism he honestly wants to raise the status of minorities, he just wants to be able to say that everyone in this scenario is being racist except him, the privileged white kid writing articles about how white privilege is nonexistent.
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# ? Apr 30, 2013 15:20 |
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I had that 1912 Rich vs 2012 Poor thing come up in a bar argument before the election, and my drunken brain was still able to come up with the only response necessary to shut that whole thing down, "So who would you rather be? Andrew Carnegie, or the Obamaphone Lady?" You cannot answer that question in good faith without completely undoing your argument.
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# ? Apr 30, 2013 15:25 |
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quote:...teach your kids stealing meat from the store is wrong and unacceptable under all conditions. I find this one to be the absolute worst. You can just hear the smug self-satisfaction dripping off this bit of petty moralizing.
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# ? Apr 30, 2013 16:26 |
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Thanks for the Tim Rice stuff, thread. Also, The Onion pretty much perfectly summed up that "To not be poor" thing way back in 1997.
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# ? Apr 30, 2013 16:46 |
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watt par posted:Here's a pretty good and often self-critical piece by Ewuare Osayande on not just Wise, but white anti-racist activism in general. To be fair, Wise is pretty good about acknowledging the problems himself, which are in part beyond his control. I saw Tim Wise speak at a UAA, and the first five minutes of his talk was taking the administration to task for choosing him to talk to AHAINA (the University's minority group) rather than a person of color. Very unexpected but awesome. Gynocentric Regime fucked around with this message at 23:54 on Apr 30, 2013 |
# ? Apr 30, 2013 19:36 |
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30 Reasons to hate Barack Obama http://townhall.com/columnists/johnhawkins/2013/04/30/30-reasons-to-dislike-barack-obama-n1582397/page/full I'm much impressed with 12 and 13 12) He looks like a pansy when he rides his little bike in mom jeans. 13) He throws like a six year old girl.
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# ? Apr 30, 2013 22:40 |
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I know it's low hanging fruit, but still. http://www.redstate.com/2013/04/24/this-is-why-we-need-to-pass-cispa/ quote:We’re at war online. Iran, North Korea, and Russia are the sources of sustained attacks on our government and our economy. They steal from us, they disrupt our operations, and they’re no better than the pirates of old. On the sea, such attacks would eventually mean war, but on the Internet they get a pass. Freeloaders
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# ? Apr 30, 2013 23:05 |
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Amused to Death posted:30 Reasons to hate Barack Obama
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# ? Apr 30, 2013 23:12 |
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If Tim Wise is bad because people pay attention to him because he's white, can a white person ever be an anti-racist ally in any meaningful sense? Can a man ever not be part of the patriarchy? I thought the whole idea was to use your privilege to bring down that privilege, it sounds like that's not good enough.
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# ? Apr 30, 2013 23:51 |
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Amused to Death posted:30 Reasons to hate Barack Obama From th comments, but still paraphrasing most of what was being said. quote:My primary two reasons for disliking the President are his left wing politics, and also his ego combined with his haughty looking down his nose at his servants. Translation - "that uppity friend of the family thinks he's better than us white folks."
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# ? May 1, 2013 03:11 |
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Amused to Death posted:30 Reasons to hate Barack Obama Coulda just combined the two into https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WcRXJ4piHg
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# ? May 1, 2013 06:27 |
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Radbot posted:If Tim Wise is bad because people pay attention to him because he's white, can a white person ever be an anti-racist ally in any meaningful sense? Can a man ever not be part of the patriarchy? I thought the whole idea was to use your privilege to bring down that privilege, it sounds like that's not good enough. The best intentions and the best actions don't somehow get rid of white privilege. It's wonderful that Tim Wise is a voice of anti-racist activism, but that doesn't make it less horrible that white people are the most celebrated voices of anti-racist activism.
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# ? May 1, 2013 07:34 |
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Amarkov posted:The best intentions and the best actions don't somehow get rid of white privilege. It's wonderful that Tim Wise is a voice of anti-racist activism, but that doesn't make it less horrible that white people are the most celebrated voices of anti-racist activism. I'd be curious to know by what measure Tim Wise is the most celebrated anti-racist activist, and not just another well known anti-racist activist.
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# ? May 1, 2013 08:04 |
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Fulchrum posted:I'd be curious to know by what measure Tim Wise is the most celebrated anti-racist activist, and not just another well known anti-racist activist. Name another anti-racist activist without looking any up.
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# ? May 1, 2013 09:00 |
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watt par posted:Name another anti-racist activist without looking any up. Ta-Nehisi Coates?
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# ? May 1, 2013 10:36 |
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watt par posted:Name another anti-racist activist without looking any up. Al Sharpton? Also I could probably think of five dead black activists off the top of my head who are more famous than Wise will ever be. This argument is stupid anyway.
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# ? May 1, 2013 10:49 |
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Here's a pure injection of crazy straight from the Huffington Post. http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/rakhi-kumar/michelle-obama-beyonce_b_3120434.html?utm_hp_ref=tw quote:Dear Michelle Obama, tl;dr Beyonce's clothing will enfluence young teenage girls to become prostitutes.
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# ? May 3, 2013 17:30 |
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Borneo Jimmy posted:Here's a pure injection of crazy straight from the Huffington Post. If Beyonce influences young girls to do anything it will be to replace their puny human forms with a being made of raw ambition, and I'm not certain that that's a bad thing.
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# ? May 3, 2013 18:12 |
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Zeroisanumber posted:If Beyonce influences young girls to do anything it will be to replace their puny human forms with a being made of raw ambition, and I'm not certain that that's a bad thing. Lemme put it this way, what was the last word you got added to the dictionary? I'm ready for the jelly.
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# ? May 3, 2013 18:56 |
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Zeroisanumber posted:If Beyonce influences young girls to do anything it will be to replace their puny human forms with a being made of raw ambition, and I'm not certain that that's a bad thing. I think Beyonce is nuts, but if she can also influence girls and women to understand that their thighs, hips, and rear end don't have to be the size of a 9 year old's, that would be great too.
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# ? May 3, 2013 22:52 |
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Amarkov posted:The best intentions and the best actions don't somehow get rid of white privilege. It's wonderful that Tim Wise is a voice of anti-racist activism, but that doesn't make it less horrible that white people are the most celebrated voices of anti-racist activism. What is he supposed to do about that? Your post implies the world would be better off without anti-racist activists who are white. Couldn't the same thing be said about celebrated straight/cis LGBT allies? It sucks that racism and homophobia exist, but the more people on the right side of history, the better.
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# ? May 4, 2013 03:56 |
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Besides which, you're making a judgement of his capacity to fulfill a role based on the color of his skin. A person doesn't have to have firsthand experience with a matter to be a valid and learned speaker on the matter. Just pointing that out.
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# ? May 4, 2013 09:12 |
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I didn't read that as an attack on Wise but a condemnation that people are only taking into account his ideas about race because he's white.
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# ? May 4, 2013 09:24 |
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Can it not just be because he's good at what he does, and his race doesn't factor into it?
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# ? May 4, 2013 09:28 |
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Fulchrum posted:Can it not just be because he's good at what he does, and his race doesn't factor into it? Even he admits that he just basically restates what activists of color have been saying for decades. Is it really that much of a stretch to say that racists that hate black people will probably listen to a white person instead of a black person?
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# ? May 4, 2013 10:05 |
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Autumncomet posted:I didn't read that as an attack on Wise but a condemnation that people are only taking into account his ideas about race because he's white. Yeah, this is exactly the point. The only obligation Wise has is to recognize that this is lovely, and he does. (I mean, ideally he'd refuse to take money from those people, but capitalism corrupts everything etc.)
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# ? May 4, 2013 10:29 |
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Fulchrum posted:Can it not just be because he's good at what he does, and his race doesn't factor into it? No, thanks to institutional and interpersonal racism. In a racist society, race is pretty much always a factor.
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# ? May 4, 2013 11:14 |
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A Fancy 400 lbs posted:Even he admits that he just basically restates what activists of color have been saying for decades. Is it really that much of a stretch to say that racists that hate black people will probably listen to a white person instead of a black person? About racial equality? Yes.
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# ? May 4, 2013 11:32 |
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It's an institutional thing. There's a very real phenomenon where people of color that talk about racism aren't viewed as "objective" in their concerns whereas the white guy will be. It's dumb and lovely but if Wise is helping out, can't really condemn him for it.
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# ? May 4, 2013 17:59 |
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Autumncomet posted:It's an institutional thing. There's a very real phenomenon where people of color that talk about racism aren't viewed as "objective" in their concerns whereas the white guy will be. It's dumb and lovely but if Wise is helping out, can't really condemn him for it. I remember that one of the appeals judges for California Prop 8 was gay, and everyone was worried about how he could possibly render an objective decision about gay marriage.
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# ? May 4, 2013 18:04 |
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Amarkov posted:I remember that one of the appeals judges for California Prop 8 was gay, and everyone was worried about how he could possibly render an objective decision about gay marriage. The district judge, Vaughn Walker. Largely conservative, law & econ judge, Bush I appointee. Literally the least controversial profile possible in the district courts.
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# ? May 4, 2013 18:09 |
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Autumncomet posted:It's an institutional thing. There's a very real phenomenon where people of color that talk about racism aren't viewed as "objective" in their concerns whereas the white guy will be. It's dumb and lovely but if Wise is helping out, can't really condemn him for it. I really do have to scream bullshit at this. Unless you can find me someone out and out saying this, I think this is some people reading racism into what should logically be a post racial topic.
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# ? May 4, 2013 21:46 |
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Some people view people that have a vested interest in the topic at hand as not able to be completely impartial about it. It's extremely dumb in this circumstance, but it does happen. People that hate on white anti-racist advocates or straight/cis LGBT allies are the people who make the SJ movement look loving dumb and alienating to outsiders.
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# ? May 4, 2013 22:09 |
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Yes, Racists will say that, in an attempt to shut down any talks of racial equality. Its just a troll argument so that they can discredit some racial theorists who say things that upset them - there is no way in hell those people would actually find the arguments palatable from a white man. Is this something people have said about Tim Wise, or are you just assuming the worst of his supporters?
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# ? May 4, 2013 22:13 |
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# ? May 28, 2024 23:12 |
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Try frequenting any SJ board/tumblr and you'll frequently see claims that allies/activists that advocate for a minority that they are not specifically a part of cannot ever be legitimate fighters for that cause.
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# ? May 4, 2013 22:18 |