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Zuhzuhzombie!! posted:Chris Broussard is an rear end in a top hat and an analog to that one vegan jerkoff you know that ruins it for all of the sensible vegetarians by grandstanding about his belief that Meat is Murder every time someone mentions cooking and eating Not Kale. I think part of the problem is people have a hard time distinguishing tone from message. If you say Kill Jews or I Hate Gays in a nice way, and wrap it in religious belief (funny how people are expected to take ownership of what they think in every area EXCEPT religion) lots of people will act like this is okay. Hell, I had to say something to my wife (who is herself bi and has marched for gay rights and campaigned for gay marriage) who was saying that it was nice to have a rational person on the other side of the argument. Just because you speak nicely doesn't mean that you're not a per-modern hateful bastard.
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Apr 30, 2013 16:05
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rkajdi posted:I think part of the problem is people have a hard time distinguishing tone from message. If you say Kill Jews or I Hate Gays in a nice way, and wrap it in religious belief (funny how people are expected to take ownership of what they think in every area EXCEPT religion) lots of people will act like this is okay. Hell, I had to say something to my wife (who is herself bi and has marched for gay rights and campaigned for gay marriage) who was saying that it was nice to have a rational person on the other side of the argument. Just because you speak nicely doesn't mean that you're not a per-modern hateful bastard. I live in the Heart of Republican America. I've slowly noticed the difference between the two types of Republicans here. Those who bring up their beliefs when pertinent and say "Whatever makes it work for them, It's not something I understand or condone, but hey, how about them Lakers?" and those "IT'S WRONG AND I'M A CHRISTIAN AND IT'S EVIL AND YOU'RE GOING TO HELL AND HOW DARE YOU BE OFFENDED." The difference is that the former are much more successful and popular and the latter aren't. Though I bet the first probably run along a 50/50 whether or not they actually really do give a poo poo and just toe the line of whatever social base they're most active in.
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Apr 30, 2013 16:09
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pug wearing a hat posted:My high school drama teacher just posted one of those "IF U CAN AFFORD ANY LUXURIES AT ALL U SHOULDN'T GET WELFARE" images. A lot of the people I did theater with were on food stamps and other assistance programs, I wonder if she knows that
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Apr 30, 2013 16:37
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Guilty Spork posted:People really don't seem to get how meager an existence welfare gets you, basically because so many people bought into Reagan's blatant lies about "welfare queens." It's enough to keep you from starving to death, but not much else. The people who don't look for a job to get themselves off of welfare are either a tiny minority who've given up and don't care, or the people who the free market has totally failed and who can't actually find anything that will support them better than the government's tiny offerings. I usually just show people that you can get last year's iPhone for free from literally every major carrier in the US. Welfare depends on individual circumstances, so it is a good idea to demand that whoever is perpetuating welfare stereotypes specify those circumstances. Ask how do they know how that family on welfare got that Cadillac? Maybe it was left to them in a relative's will? Maybe the entire family or household chips in for the car payments and insurance and shares its use? Maybe they are forced to carry $50 PLPD on a car worth $15,000? Where does the line in the sand get drawn? Should people on welfare be literally clothed in rags to satisfy their desire to see these people below normal human decency? Granted, usually they will just take their ball and go home when you prod with questions like this. If they stay around and argue they eventually just end up stating racial stereotypes instead of economic ones.
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Apr 30, 2013 16:45
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Guilty Spork posted:People really don't seem to get how meager an existence welfare gets you, basically because so many people bought into Reagan's blatant lies about "welfare queens." It's enough to keep you from starving to death, but not much else. The people who don't look for a job to get themselves off of welfare are either a tiny minority who've given up and don't care, or the people who the free market has totally failed and who can't actually find anything that will support them better than the government's tiny offerings. Sometimes it can help to give a little ground, then get them to give even more ground. A bit of ground to give here is acknowledging that there is a "cliff" in some types of welfare. A point where if you earn more money, you'll be disqualified from getting your benefits, but the point where you're disqualified is not enough to make up the difference. I believe Medicaid is the worst about this. At a certain point, you're cut off. At that point, you're expected to pay for your own care. But the cost of paying for your own care is so much higher than the point where you're cut off. That's where the 'cheating' part comes in--hiding the income, claiming you have more dependents than you do, claiming a disability you don't have. Something to cover or reduce that gap. If you acknowledge that that gap does exist and that it does serve as an incentive to keep people on welfare, you can then argue solutions for that problem, instead of the neverending ideological battles of "Lazy welfare queens doing drugs and buying iPods!" I've had some success in turning the discussion from the ideological, where everything is conservative vs liberal, to the practical, where people don't have their egos shoved into it.
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Apr 30, 2013 16:47
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Zuhzuhzombie!! posted:I live in the Heart of Republican America. I've slowly noticed the difference between the two types of Republicans here. Those who bring up their beliefs when pertinent and say "Whatever makes it work for them, It's not something I understand or condone, but hey, how about them Lakers?" and those "IT'S WRONG AND I'M A CHRISTIAN AND IT'S EVIL AND YOU'RE GOING TO HELL AND HOW DARE YOU BE OFFENDED." I've met plenty of people in rural America who say this, but I've also seen them never ever actually back it up when it comes to doing the hard thing. I've watched fake libertarians balk and start doing things like dragging up zoning laws as soon as people start doing things like building a Alawite religious building all the while talking about state's rights and the need for the government to get off the back. The level of state's rights bullshit you get from these republicans tends to be inversely proportional to the concentration of 'different' people around them. Also remember that part of this freedom they are discussing is the right to fire/not hire/not serve people based on all the protected factors we have under current civil rights law. tl;dr - while libertarians are crazy, the faux libertarians in the GOP are another kind of thing altogether, and tend to be dishonest about this fact.
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Apr 30, 2013 16:47
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babies havin rabies posted:If they stay around and argue they eventually just end up stating racial stereotypes instead of economic ones. Or they'll usually fall back on the "Well poor people have *insert nice thing* Someone on my facebook who works at store posted a classic "This woman with a smart phone and a coach bag comes up to the film counter with soda and poo poo snacks, pulls out a wad of cash, then asks if we accept EBT. Glad I could be paying for all this junk!" Someone else and myself gave practical explanations. Smart phones are dirt cheap and could've been a gift, a nice handbag could be a knockoff or a gift again. Unless it was a wad of $100s a giant wad of cash means nothing, I mean I have a wad of cash in my wallet right now but its like $83, it just happens to be a whole lot of $1's and that junk is dirt cheap. Nope, doesn't matter, they own nice things.
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Apr 30, 2013 16:54
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Guilty Spork posted:People really don't seem to get how meager an existence welfare gets you, basically because so many people bought into Reagan's blatant lies about "welfare queens." It's enough to keep you from starving to death, but not much else. The people who don't look for a job to get themselves off of welfare are either a tiny minority who've given up and don't care, or the people who the free market has totally failed and who can't actually find anything that will support them better than the government's tiny offerings. I'm literally sitting next to a temp who's rent, utils included, goes from 50 to 650 when she is working. She makes ten an hour at 35 hours a week. She also loses her 50 a week in foodstamps and uses more gas. And has less time to help out her disabled aunt. Harold Fjord fucked around with this message at 17:02 on Apr 30, 2013 |
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Apr 30, 2013 16:58
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Guilty Spork posted:People really don't seem to get how meager an existence welfare gets you, basically because so many people bought into Reagan's blatant lies about "welfare queens." It's enough to keep you from starving to death, but not much else. The people who don't look for a job to get themselves off of welfare are either a tiny minority who've given up and don't care, or the people who the free market has totally failed and who can't actually find anything that will support them better than the government's tiny offerings. Those rags are worth 2 fen to a Chinese upholstery stuffing factory. SELL EM. Why do you need TWO kidneys?
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Apr 30, 2013 16:59
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I don't know how EBT works, but isn't it just like an allotted amount of money that you get a month for food that's tied to a card or whatever? If that money doesn't disappear after the month, isn't it possible to save up for things? Just asking because everyone's always complaining about people on food assistance buying luxuries like lobster.
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Apr 30, 2013 17:04
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I've got a lot of "natural remedy" people on my feed lately. I'm user #3 and nobody will listen to me. I don't want to come on too strong and tell them that I'm actually studying medicine, since they seem to distrust medicine anyway.
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Apr 30, 2013 17:10
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Doctor Butts posted:I don't know how EBT works, but isn't it just like an allotted amount of money that you get a month for food that's tied to a card or whatever? If that money doesn't disappear after the month, isn't it possible to save up for things? Yes, it rolls over if you don't use it, though I doubt anyone really ever has any substantial amount rolling over. But the real issue here is they completely ignore all the poor people buying mundane things and focus on the one person who bought expensive steak or whatever while completely ignoring the fact it could be like their husband's birthday or some poo poo. If you check out 30 people on food stamps in one day, statistically at least a couple will have some kind of a special day coming up.
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Apr 30, 2013 17:10
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As a personal story (so take it with a grain of salt), my wife and I were broke and had just moved to a vacation area on the off season and were not making enough money to sustain ourselves. We went to social services and applied for an EBT card. They allotted us $17 per month for groceries. We ate a lot of rice and beans that winter.
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Apr 30, 2013 17:26
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U.S. Barryl posted:I've got a lot of "natural remedy" people on my feed lately. I'm user #3 and nobody will listen to me. I don't want to come on too strong and tell them that I'm actually studying medicine, since they seem to distrust medicine anyway. The best I can do for you is that if their faith in easily disproven rubbish from dubious sources is that strong, they will one day slowly die of cancer or some other preventable ailment. I hope you don't particularly like them or their children. I don't really understand the "I have a Facebook friend who says [idiotic poo poo]" thing. If I have a Facebook friend who says idiotic poo poo, I block him or he blocks me. The worst it ever gets is someone who is "just asking questions" about vaccinations and autism, at which point I unequivocally lay down the law on that because I don't want to see that poo poo on my Facebook feed or anyone else's. That usually works, honestly. You can't really debate a kook on the merits, though.
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Apr 30, 2013 17:27
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U.S. Barryl posted:I've got a lot of "natural remedy" people on my feed lately. I'm user #3 and nobody will listen to me. I don't want to come on too strong and tell them that I'm actually studying medicine, since they seem to distrust medicine anyway. The internet has got to be the worst development for debate ever. Because no matter how batshit your beliefs are, you can find "proof" for them somewhere on the net and then you feel reassured and vindicated and cling that much stronger to them. At this point you're arguing against people's beliefs, and that's akin to trying to disprove god. Good luck!
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Apr 30, 2013 17:27
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It's just like sports!
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Apr 30, 2013 17:34
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Bubbacub posted:It's just like sports! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDpzJk3X020
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Apr 30, 2013 17:36
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Have you seen my apex seals? I seem to have lost them.
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Mike the TV posted:As a personal story (so take it with a grain of salt) I think I'll let you have that grain of salt, it sounds like you need it more than I do.
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Apr 30, 2013 17:45
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XyloJW posted:Sometimes it can help to give a little ground, then get them to give even more ground. A bit of ground to give here is acknowledging that there is a "cliff" in some types of welfare. A point where if you earn more money, you'll be disqualified from getting your benefits, but the point where you're disqualified is not enough to make up the difference. I believe Medicaid is the worst about this. At a certain point, you're cut off. At that point, you're expected to pay for your own care. But the cost of paying for your own care is so much higher than the point where you're cut off. That's where the 'cheating' part comes in--hiding the income, claiming you have more dependents than you do, claiming a disability you don't have. Something to cover or reduce that gap. I was that cheater once. After I broke my leg and ran into complications with a non-union and a staph infection I had to lie about my living arrangements or else I would not qualify for the county healthcare program. Without access to that program the only treatment I could have received would have been in the emergency room when it was time to amputate or I was dying from the infection. With options like those it shouldn’t be hard for all but the cruelest of people to understand why sometimes people have to cheat the system. As a side question I know it got posted earlier but can anyone point me to a good source debunking the government buying ammo to shoot everyone and or take guns without taking them nonsense.
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Apr 30, 2013 17:51
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OAquinas posted:The internet has got to be the worst development for debate ever. Because no matter how batshit your beliefs are, you can find "proof" for them somewhere on the net and then you feel reassured and vindicated and cling that much stronger to them. Well, back in the day all someone had to say 'no i read somewhere that' These days, you can all read that same somewhere. So everyone has a chance to attack the source.
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Apr 30, 2013 17:53
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VideoTapir posted:I think I'll let you have that grain of salt, it sounds like you need it more than I do. That was the toughest winter we've had. Our rent was $700 a month for a 350 square foot apartment (vacation area- this was a good deal). At the worst point I was making under $200 a week and my wife was working at Kmart doing much worse than that. According to Virginia this meant I was making enough to sustain myself and I received no temporary part-time unemployment assistance. I bought two steaks with our EBT card once. They were on sale because they were old. Buy one get one free meant they were around $2 a pound. I wonder if someone was watching me buy them, judging me and wondering how I could afford such wondrous luxuries on state assistance.
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Apr 30, 2013 17:53
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Mike the TV posted:(vacation area- this was a good deal). At the worst point I was making under $200 a week and my wife was working at Kmart doing much worse than that. According to Virginia this meant I was making enough to sustain myself and I received no temporary part-time unemployment assistance. Duh, you're supposed to commute 40 miles.
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Apr 30, 2013 18:00
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Captain Filth posted:I was that cheater once. After I broke my leg and ran into complications with a non-union and a staph infection I had to lie about my living arrangements or else I would not qualify for the county healthcare program. Without access to that program the only treatment I could have received would have been in the emergency room when it was time to amputate or I was dying from the infection. With options like those it shouldn’t be hard for all but the cruelest of people to understand why sometimes people have to cheat the system. You can't be that poor, you still have all your limbs!!! 
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Apr 30, 2013 19:07
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Mike the TV posted:That was the toughest winter we've had. Our rent was $700 a month for a 350 square foot apartment (vacation area- this was a good deal). At the worst point I was making under $200 a week and my wife was working at Kmart doing much worse than that. According to Virginia this meant I was making enough to sustain myself and I received no temporary part-time unemployment assistance. According to my brother this is when you're supposed to turn to a faith-based charity/your church for help. That's what they're there for and they are much better than government programs. Disclaimer: my brother is a gigantic idiot.
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Apr 30, 2013 19:56
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Captain Filth posted:As a side question I know it got posted earlier but can anyone point me to a good source debunking the government buying ammo to shoot everyone and or take guns without taking them nonsense.
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Apr 30, 2013 20:08
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Amused to Death posted:Yes, it rolls over if you don't use it, though I doubt anyone really ever has any substantial amount rolling over. But the real issue here is they completely ignore all the poor people buying mundane things and focus on the one person who bought expensive steak or whatever while completely ignoring the fact it could be like their husband's birthday or some poo poo. If you check out 30 people on food stamps in one day, statistically at least a couple will have some kind of a special day coming up. Mike the TV posted:As a personal story (so take it with a grain of salt), my wife and I were broke and had just moved to a vacation area on the off season and were not making enough money to sustain ourselves. We went to social services and applied for an EBT card. They allotted us $17 per month for groceries. To expand upon this with program data instead of first hand accounts, here is perhaps the most detailed comprehensive report on SNAP spending patterns that is physically possible, coming in at 444 pages. I'll highlight some key numbers, but goddamn you could be lost browsing through information in here for a month: This loving glorious report I'm such a nerd for data posted:On average, in a typical month a household did not spend $7.61 of its monthly issuance and had an account balance of $19.09 at the end of the month (Table 4). The amount carried over is correlated with the size of a household’s issuance: those with an issuance $25 or less carried over just $0.78, while those receiving an issuance over $500 had $18.81 of their issuance left at the end of the month. Similarly, the average balance at the end of the month also correlates with the household’s issuance amount, ranging from $3.72 for those with issuances of $25 or less to $40.12 for those with issuances above $500. It even breaks down where people do their shopping, how frequently they redeem benefits, and it's all broken down further into subgroups and by state. I loves me some in-depth reports.  I've talked about SNAP a number of times in this thread, because I think it's important for people to understand and recognize how small the benefits really are and how vastly they are needed; I'm tempted to try and make one massive Welfare Megathread to compile as much raw data about the various assistance programs at the federal level (wic, tanf, snap, UI, etc.) as possible, useful tools and resources for finding user-specific information and to discuss new developments relating specifically to welfare programs.
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Apr 30, 2013 20:48
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:According to my brother this is when you're supposed to turn to a faith-based charity/your church for help. That's what they're there for and they are much better than government programs. Disclaimer: my brother is a gigantic idiot. The worst part about this is, at least in my area, the churches that do provide some help are mostly run by gossipy old people who won't help people they deem to be unworthy based on things like if you live in a trailer park or if they have ever heard anything bad about you, and even if you do get help its a one time deal. But goddamn they sure do love to have expansive construction projects so they have state of the art sound systems and the best altar to lord jesus that ever existed.
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Apr 30, 2013 21:22
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Many protestant organizations require some service from the poor to receive housing or pantry services (attending some service, participation in shelter activities and cleaning, etc). It always seems to get twisted into "you're a dirty poor because you're a no good sinner" rather than trying to give them hope through faith. Participation can dictate if you get to sleep in a cot or on the floor (or get kicked out on the street). Orwell didn't have very many positive things to say about the Salvation Army. Catholic organizations do lovely things like pressuring pregnant homeless women to work with adoption agencies rather than even thinking about an option like abortion (and you better not if you want continued services from us!).
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Apr 30, 2013 21:44
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Branis posted:The worst part about this is, at least in my area, the churches that do provide some help are mostly run by gossipy old people who won't help people they deem to be unworthy based on things like if you live in a trailer park or if they have ever heard anything bad about you, and even if you do get help its a one time deal. But goddamn they sure do love to have expansive construction projects so they have state of the art sound systems and the best altar to lord jesus that ever existed. What was that thread about the Sudanese refugee who grew up in the US, went back to visit Sudan, and then told off the local minister for basically sucking people dry for no good reason? I think that minister decided to spend a bunch of money to improve the village, didn't he?
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Apr 30, 2013 21:46
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Plus, of course, even if they're willing, churches can't make up the shortfall. Given a $1T welfare budget, assuming 10% of that was waste, charitable giving would still need to increase by a factor of 3-10 to match government aid, and that's ignoring how much charitable giving goes to cultural projects rather than food banks and such.
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Apr 30, 2013 21:51
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Not to mention that charities are, by and large, not able to enact the changes that are necessary to solve the problem (e.g. improve education) rather than treat the symptoms (e.g. feed the hungry). So then can we say that charities are, on the whole, less efficient in the long run?
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Apr 30, 2013 22:27
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Mo_Steel posted:To expand upon this with program data instead of first hand accounts, here is perhaps the most detailed comprehensive report on SNAP spending patterns that is physically possible, coming in at 444 pages. I'll highlight some key numbers, but goddamn you could be lost browsing through information in here for a month: Holy poo poo, I've only looked at the one picture you posted and it like knows almost exactly how much I in fact have left right now, I'm like 40 cents off the average.
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Apr 30, 2013 22:43
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How do you get your facebook feeds to display FBUser1 etc?
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Apr 30, 2013 23:22
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Wojtek posted:How do you get your facebook feeds to display FBUser1 etc? https://www.socialfixer.com has an anonymize function.
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Apr 30, 2013 23:31
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Branis posted:The worst part about this is, at least in my area, the churches that do provide some help are mostly run by gossipy old people who won't help people they deem to be unworthy based on things like if you live in a trailer park or if they have ever heard anything bad about you, and even if you do get help its a one time deal. But goddamn they sure do love to have expansive construction projects so they have state of the art sound systems and the best altar to lord jesus that ever existed. I had the opportunity to forge a great memory last year when I had dinner with my folks and their church friends on a Sunday when my sister was in town. My mom was talking to one of the church friends back-and-forth about how the Hispanic population takes more than they put in with regards to the church. I just stared at my sister during the entire ordeal pondering the meaning of charity. Remember, I'm the bad son who renounced his faith. 
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May 1, 2013 00:20
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I keep getting the "Today is the day Marty McFly arrives when he travels to the future!" in my Facebook feed. I know that this has come up a few times in this thread, but this is the one that puzzles me the most. It has a Snopes article dedicated to it, and even a dedicated website to displaying how far away we are from the actual date: http://www.october212015.com/. With all this... who keeps bothering to remake this drat thing over and over again?
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May 1, 2013 01:01
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PIPBoy 2000 posted:I keep getting the "Today is the day Marty McFly arrives when he travels to the future!" in my Facebook feed. I know that this has come up a few times in this thread, but this is the one that puzzles me the most. Just link them to http://istodaythedaymartymcflyarriveswhenhetravelstothefuture.com/.
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May 1, 2013 01:02
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U.S. Barryl posted:I've got a lot of "natural remedy" people on my feed lately. I'm user #3 and nobody will listen to me. I don't want to come on too strong and tell them that I'm actually studying medicine, since they seem to distrust medicine anyway. I wonder if these are the type of people who would have jumped on the antioxidant bandwagon and are therefore removed all those deadly fruits and vegetables from their diet when they came across this fad. The Dark One fucked around with this message at 02:17 on May 1, 2013 |
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May 1, 2013 02:15
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Facebook just informed me that the crazy right wing cop I went to highschool with has "liked" Lifelock. 
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May 1, 2013 07:16
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PIPBoy 2000 posted:I keep getting the "Today is the day Marty McFly arrives when he travels to the future!" in my Facebook feed. I know that this has come up a few times in this thread, but this is the one that puzzles me the most. I wonder if we'll get them AFTER the actual day? Or maybe we'll just get a series of 'Today is the day the Terminator went back to the past!' hoaxes until 2029
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May 1, 2013 09:26
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