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goddamnedtwisto posted:I wrote too many words on this subject on the now-dormant biek wiki: Wheelie@biekwiki posted:Ideally throughout the wheelie you'll be accelerating very slightly so the throttle is actually holding you up rather than you actually balancing on the front wheel. This "wheelie" business seems more complicated than I thought...
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May 1, 2013 15:35
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| # ? Jun 5, 2024 07:21 |
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I rode a motorcycle for the first time yesterday! It was a Suzuki TU250, single cylinder fuel injected. The toughest thing was the throttle control, the little bastard was really really touchy, and I was get tossed forward and back quite a bit if I wasn't smoother than a kitten in butter with it. Are carb'd bikes any different?
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May 1, 2013 17:23
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whiskas posted:Are carb'd bikes any different? Yes. You can slip the clutch to compensate on an EFI bike though.
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May 1, 2013 17:27
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whiskas posted:I rode a motorcycle for the first time yesterday! It was a Suzuki TU250, single cylinder fuel injected. The toughest thing was the throttle control, the little bastard was really really touchy, and I was get tossed forward and back quite a bit if I wasn't smoother than a kitten in butter with it. Are carb'd bikes any different? Only if they have SS brake lines, and the right oil.
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May 1, 2013 17:27
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whiskas posted:I rode a motorcycle for the first time yesterday! It was a Suzuki TU250, single cylinder fuel injected. The toughest thing was the throttle control, the little bastard was really really touchy, and I was get tossed forward and back quite a bit if I wasn't smoother than a kitten in butter with it. Are carb'd bikes any different? That can be mitigated if you change the fueling to be a little richer on barely-open throttle... on EFI bikes that usually means a piggyback computer and dyno time. And yeah like Nero says, slip that clutch to smooth it out.
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May 1, 2013 17:37
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I think that any jerkiness would be better attributed to it being your first time on a bike, not the details of the fueling system.
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May 1, 2013 17:51
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It'll also chug like poo poo if you let the RPMs drop too low with the clutch all the way out.
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May 1, 2013 17:56
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Sagebrush posted:I think that any jerkiness would be better attributed to it being your first time on a bike, not the details of the fueling system. Agreed. Also was this all in first? You get a lot of power in first so it's easier to get jerky. Also at high rpm in first it can feel jerky even with a steady throttle (like day 1 of MSF class)
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May 1, 2013 18:00
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Is there any possible way to find out the size of a bolt from the Yamaha part number? I stripped out a bolt, and wanna pick one up at Fastenal. P/N: 91317-06040-00
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May 1, 2013 18:29
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If you bring them the bolt or one like it, they'll probably be able to identify it for you.
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May 1, 2013 18:33
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alnilam posted:Agreed. Also was this all in first? You get a lot of power in first so it's easier to get jerky. Also at high rpm in first it can feel jerky even with a steady throttle (like day 1 of MSF class) Yeah this was in first gear, it got better once I got up into 2nd, but it was quite humbling to see how much go I had in first if I cranked the throttle a bit too much. I can't even begin to imagine how people learn to ride on 600+ CC bikes without dying.
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May 1, 2013 19:00
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First gear sucks and is always jerkier than other gears. You basically only use it when you're starting from a stop.
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May 1, 2013 19:09
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SB35 posted:Is there any possible way to find out the size of a bolt from the Yamaha part number? I stripped out a bolt, and wanna pick one up at Fastenal. Might not be helpful, but, calipers?
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May 1, 2013 19:23
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Okay, so I'm actually going to check the valve clearances (I was incorrect and it's at 25,000, not 20,000) on my FZ6 the weeked onf the 10th. I found a great guide on the FZ6 forums for how to get to em, check em and reinstall everything, but it's for checking only, not adjusting. So, uh, what do I do if they're out of spec? E: SB35 posted:Is there any possible way to find out the size of a bolt from the Yamaha part number? I stripped out a bolt, and wanna pick one up at Fastenal. http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-90109-06457-00-BOLT-Part-91317-06025-00/dp/B005C5BGCO http://www.partzilla.com/parts/detail/yamaha/YP-91317-06050-00.html http://www.cycle-parts.com/Product.aspx?ProductID=999650&SKU=91317-06025-00 its all nice on rice fucked around with this message at 19:46 on May 1, 2013 |
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May 1, 2013 19:40
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In a very simple nutshell: You want to mark the cams and the cam chain so that when you reinstall the cams you know they're in the right spot. Remove the CCT. Remove the cam caps, loosening them in sequence (should be printed on the caps) about 2-4 turns at a time to prevent the spring force from the cams cracking the cam caps. Remove the cams, being careful to make sure that the cam chain doesn't skip a link down in the cases at the crank. Use some wire to hold it up. Put a rag in the cam chain tunnel. I actually usually just zip tie the cam chain to each cam and leave one in the engine at a time, it's an easy way to minimize chances of them going out of time and it does a good job of keeping the cam chain from falling down the cam chain tunnel/skipping teeth. Use a piece of bailing wire or otherwise to hold the chain out of the case and keep it taut. Each cam pushes down on a bucket that has a shim under it. You should remove the buckets one at a time, measure the shim under the bucket with a caliper, replace the shim with the appropriately sized one, and reinstall. Do them one at a time because you don't want to mix up the buckets, as they have different tolerances and if you shuffle them around you'll have to do it all over again. Once you've done all the shims under the buckets, reinstall the cams, tighten the bolts down in sequence, finishing off with a torque wrench, reset the CCT, reinstall it, make sure it deploys, turn the engine over a few times to make sure nothing was hosed up with the reinstall and it spins freely, do a minimum clearance check on each valve to make sure none of the shims slipped out of their buckets or there wasn't a similar problem during reassembly, and then you're good to go. Take pictures of the cam gears before you pull them to make sure they line up right in case something happens with your timing marks, and DO NOT turn the engine over with the cams out. Z3n fucked around with this message at 19:57 on May 1, 2013 |
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May 1, 2013 19:54
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SB35 posted:Is there any possible way to find out the size of a bolt from the Yamaha part number? I stripped out a bolt, and wanna pick one up at Fastenal. Suzuki part nos. include the bolt size, and I suspect that your Yamaha part no. does this too. If I'm right, the middle number (06040) indicates the size (M6 x 40mm). Looking over the fiche of a bike http://www.partzilla.com/parts/search/Yamaha/Motorcycle/1995/FZR1000G/OIL%20PUMP/parts.html Another bolt in the fiche (P/N 95027-06030-00) appears to corroborate the theory, as that flange bolt looks like an M6 x 30mm bolt. As for threading, it's probably 1.25, but check the threads on another M6 bolt from the bike to be sure. HTH
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May 1, 2013 20:04
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Z3n posted:In a very simple nutshell: Which bike is this that requires removing the cams to adjust valves? Because that sucks. Edit: I see it's the FZ6.
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May 1, 2013 20:06
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clutchpuck posted:That's where I am with it. 3k/8months on dinosaur oil in a single cylinder (right?) - based on how the XL175 acts, I bet the gearbox behaves a lot better with fresh oil. Hmm. Lever springs back fine, it does slip quite a bit but to be perfectly honest I think that might be poor shifting on my part. I'll check the clutch actuator at some point tomorrow, any tips appreciated. obso posted:
Ah, apologies, I worded it poorly, I meant what a stuck clutch was, I didn't know if it meant a stuck clutch lever or a stuck clutch mechanism. It's bite since I tightened it is probably round about 80, completely engaging round about 90, 95. I think I may have tightened it a little too much, but loosening it a few turns in work kept it at roughly the same levels. I can feel it hitting neutral in the transmission through the gearshift, but then jumping straight past it, it's not allowing the half-tap up or down from 1st or 2nd.
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May 1, 2013 20:25
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clutchpuck posted:If you bring them the bolt or one like it, they'll probably be able to identify it for you. alnilam posted:Might not be helpful, but, calipers? Pope Mobile posted:I did some reserach and didn't find the size, but I found it on sale on a few sites: Thanks guys, I found those parts on sale online too, but I only needed one bolt and Fastenal is just down the street. I know I could just bring in another one, but was hoping there was some way to actually get the size from the part number in case I couldn't bring in another just like it. Tamir Lenk posted:Suzuki part nos. include the bolt size, and I suspect that your Yamaha part no. does this too. If I'm right, the middle number (06040) indicates the size (M6 x 40mm). This makes logical sense. I'll take in another identical bolt and see if this theory works out. I do know it's an M6 but that's all. Thanks man.
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May 1, 2013 20:30
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Tamir Lenk posted:Which bike is this that requires removing the cams to adjust valves? Because that sucks. How many bikes do you work on that DON'T require removing the cams to adjust your shims?
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May 1, 2013 20:35
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Z3n posted:In a very simple nutshell:  I'm going to need more than a six pack. Good thing my friends are helping me out. We're giving ourselves Friday night and Saturday just in case, because this will be an undertaking. Thanks for the walkthrough. When you say "replace the shim with the appropriately sized one" I take it that I should buy some spares in case they're out of spec?
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May 1, 2013 20:37
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whiskas posted:Yeah this was in first gear, it got better once I got up into 2nd, but it was quite humbling to see how much go I had in first if I cranked the throttle a bit too much. I can't even begin to imagine how people learn to ride on 600+ CC bikes without dying. The Tu250 I rode in class was jerky as hell, as is the one my friend has. I think it's just a 'feature' of the Tu250 - the 1000 cc bike I bought as my first bike is massively smoother and less jerky in first despite having 4x the displacement and 10x the power. And as the other guys noted, slip the hell outta that clutch.
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May 1, 2013 20:38
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Pope Mobile posted:
I think first you should just worry about measuring clearances. Find out if you need new shims, order them (or a kit), and then go about replacing the shims. In my opinion if you're just now learning to do it you're much better off taking things apart and measuring clearances, putting it back together and then giving it all a go one more time later when you're more comfortable with the process and have all the parts. You don't need to remove near as much to just check clearance so it should also be pretty quick. I know someone else is going to freak out at this advice and say it's a waste to take the cover off twice but I really think you're better off not tearing off the cover, checking the clearances and then trying to scramble to find the right shims during the weekend while your bike is ripped apart and then trying to stuff them back in there before your friends ditch you and you run out of daylight. This is one of those things where doing it "twice" can end up saving you a lot of time and frustration over just doing it once.
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May 1, 2013 20:44
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Tamir Lenk posted:As for threading, it's probably 1.25, but check the threads on another M6 bolt from the bike to be sure. SB35 posted:This makes logical sense. I'll take in another identical bolt and see if this theory works out. I do know it's an M6 but that's all. Thanks man. Metric 6mm are going to be either 1.00mm pitch or 0.75mm, and the 0.75 is the rarely-seen fine pitch variant. M6x1.0 are super easy to find in all sorts of sizes. Measure the length of the bolt with calipers (on most kinds of bolts, you want the threaded length only -- measure from the bottom of the head to the end) and ask them for an M6x1.0 in that length. Get zinc-plated grade 8.8 or better. e: ooh it's a flange bolt. Make sure to specify a flange bolt. You could get away with a regular hex bolt and an appropriate washer, probably, but might as well use the correct part if you can find it. Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 20:59 on May 1, 2013 |
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May 1, 2013 20:57
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You shouldn't have to move anything to check clearances. Use plastigauge. If it is anything like a lot of other Yamaha DOHC heads, you may be able to either use a special shim lifter tool or a pair of small flathead screwdrivers to pop the shims out and replace them.
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May 1, 2013 20:58
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JP Money posted:I think first you should just worry about measuring clearances. Find out if you need new shims, order them (or a kit), and then go about replacing the shims. In my opinion if you're just now learning to do it you're much better off taking things apart and measuring clearances, putting it back together and then giving it all a go one more time later when you're more comfortable with the process and have all the parts. I actually agree with this for 2 reasons: You don't have a shim kit on hand, and you're probably not going to need to adjust them yet. Check the clearances with your buddies Friday night. If the bike isn't hard starting hot yet, you're probably just fine, or close. If they do need to be adjusted, another few thousand of riding with them a bit tight won't hurt them. Pope Mobile posted:
Don't bother buying any, if you need to adjust them, just send me a PM with your address and I'll ship you my 7.48mm shim kit. You trade the shims you pull from the bike with the shims you need from the kit, and send it back. It also makes life a lot easier because you're not cross comparing the shims you have vs the ones you need and moving them around to try and buy as few as possible. HotCanadianChick posted:You shouldn't have to move anything to check clearances. Use plastigauge. Doesn't work like that with shim under bucket valves, you need to use feeler gauges to check the clearances and then you have to pull the cams and buckets to get to the shims. Plastiguage wouldn't be used here, mainly because you'd have to torque down and loosen the cams each time to get an accurate reading and if it's out of the spec range on your plastiguage, you have to do it all over again. It's way easier to just use feelers.
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May 1, 2013 21:18
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JP Money posted:How many bikes do you work on that DON'T require removing the cams to adjust your shims? This is not an exhaustive list: CB750, CB900, CB1100, KZ900, KZ1000, KZ750, GS1000, GS1100, GS550, GS650, GS750, GS500, GS300, GS400, GS425, GS450, XJ650, XJ750, XS750, XS850, XS1100
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May 1, 2013 21:22
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I don't even have shims in my bike. You can adjust the valves with two .05mm feeler gauges, a 10mm wrench and a screwdriver, and you only have to take out three screws to get at them 
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May 1, 2013 21:27
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It's easier to list them by configuration: Any bike that uses a screw style adjuster won't require removal of the cams, and nearly all shim over bucket designs do not require removing the cam. The ones that will require cam removal are shim under bucket designs, which are more durable, higher revving (overrev on a shim over bucket design can cause it to spit out the valve shim) and take longer to wear out/have longer maintenance intervals.
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May 1, 2013 21:34
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Nerobro posted:This is not an exhaustive list: CB750, CB900, CB1100, KZ900, KZ1000, KZ750, GS1000, GS1100, GS550, GS650, GS750, GS500, GS300, GS400, GS425, GS450, XJ650, XJ750, XS750, XS850, XS1100 It's not exactly like the list of bikes that use something other than shim under bucket is massive these days. It's not 1975. Most bikes people run into are going to use SUB type adjustments hence being shocked at having to remove cams for an adjustment is silly.
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May 1, 2013 21:35
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JP Money posted:It's not exactly like the list of bikes that use something other than shim under bucket is massive these days. It's not 1975. Most bikes people run into are going to use SUB type adjustments hence being shocked at having to remove cams for an adjustment is silly. Or nut and screw. Or they have hydraulic valve lifters. And like I said, the list isn't exhaustive. And to be silly, the GS500 was sold until last year.
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May 1, 2013 21:45
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I'm feeling less overwhelmed by it now, thanks. Reading all the "checked my valves" threads on the FZ6 forums, I've yet to see one where they were out of spec. Luckily, I'm doing it at a friend's house (he's got a torque wrench and more space) so he can't run away.
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May 1, 2013 21:56
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Just checking - you do know that they need to be checked with the engine completely (overnight) cold?
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May 1, 2013 21:59
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I did not! Thank you.
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May 1, 2013 22:10
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That would have been a lovely thing to discover after the fact!  You'll do just fine. Take it slow, don't force anything, ask questions if you feel weird about anything. If you want another backup opinion, drop me a PM and I'll get you my phone number so you can call or text if you run in to anything weird. 
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May 1, 2013 22:19
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JP Money posted:How many bikes do you work on that DON'T require removing the cams to adjust your shims? Seriously, this.
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May 1, 2013 22:21
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JP Money posted:How many bikes do you work on that DON'T require removing the cams to adjust your shims? E: Almost forgot the 
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May 1, 2013 23:36
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MonkeyNutZ posted:Every Ducati I can think of? I said "how many bikes do YOU work on..." not "how many bikes do dealers work on at $120 an hour..". 
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May 1, 2013 23:44
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Gotta remove the cams to adjust the valves on the Testastretta engines.
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May 1, 2013 23:45
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| # ? Jun 5, 2024 07:21 |
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Sagebrush posted:I don't even have shims in my bike. You can adjust the valves with two .05mm feeler gauges, a 10mm wrench and a screwdriver, and you only have to take out three screws to get at them contributing to conversation: pre-08 ninjettes just have screws with locknuts but ya gotta disassemble the whole drat bike down to the engine to do it.
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May 2, 2013 00:24
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