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Van5
Sep 9, 2011

Laminator posted:

http://kfor.com/2013/04/30/governor-signs-food-stamp-reform-into-law/

Oklahoma continues to lead the nation in bring dumb as hell. Read the comments for some typical drivel about welfare queens and how CEOs and corporations deserve tax breaks. Of course my classmates think this is a good thing.

Just leave the poor alone! Jesus :smith:

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darthbob88
Oct 13, 2011

YOSPOS
I have to say, I'd be less outraged if that reform included some provision for people who would work, if only there was work they could do. "If you can't find 20 hours of work, because there are no jobs, spend 20 hours a week pulling weeds and mowing lawns in the City Park, volunteering at the soup kitchen, or any other community service job". Just some acknowledgement that people on welfare aren't being lazy would be nice.

George H.W. Cunt
Oct 6, 2010





http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2013/05/01/Breaking-Pentagon-Confirms-Will-Court-Martial-Soldiers-Who-Share-Christian-Faith

Obama's war on Christianity continues.

Funny enough it is the non military friends I have that are freaking the gently caress out.

Nostalgia4Infinity
Feb 27, 2007

10,000 YEARS WASN'T ENOUGH LURKING

SaltLick posted:

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2013/05/01/Breaking-Pentagon-Confirms-Will-Court-Martial-Soldiers-Who-Share-Christian-Faith

Obama's war on Christianity continues.

Funny enough it is the non military friends I have that are freaking the gently caress out.

Because your military friends have probably run into "that guy" on deployment.

Gen. Ripper
Jan 12, 2013


darthbob88 posted:

I have to say, I'd be less outraged if that reform included some provision for people who would work, if only there was work they could do. "If you can't find 20 hours of work, because there are no jobs, spend 20 hours a week pulling weeds and mowing lawns in the City Park, volunteering at the soup kitchen, or any other community service job". Just some acknowledgement that people on welfare aren't being lazy would be nice.

But then, how we will be able to demonize the poor as lazy moochers taking ARE TAX DOLLARS from the JOB CREATORS?! :freep:

Fart Sandwiches
Apr 4, 2006

i never asked for this

SaltLick posted:

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2013/05/01/Breaking-Pentagon-Confirms-Will-Court-Martial-Soldiers-Who-Share-Christian-Faith

Obama's war on Christianity continues.

Funny enough it is the non military friends I have that are freaking the gently caress out.

I almost posted this huge long thing to my cousin's wife but decided better of it.

Basically 1) it's a brietbart article.
2) They never once quote the DoD or Obama administration saying what they claim
3) it's loving breitbart
4) Breitbart.

suesehT
Nov 18, 2000

darthbob88 posted:

I have to say, I'd be less outraged if that reform included some provision for people who would work, if only there was work they could do. "If you can't find 20 hours of work, because there are no jobs, spend 20 hours a week pulling weeds and mowing lawns in the City Park, volunteering at the soup kitchen, or any other community service job". Just some acknowledgement that people on welfare aren't being lazy would be nice.

All that would do is take jobs away from paid professionals who work on the city parks. Not at all a solution, or in any way a good idea.

George H.W. Cunt
Oct 6, 2010





Fart Sandwiches posted:

I almost posted this huge long thing to my cousin's wife but decided better of it.

Basically 1) it's a brietbart article.
2) They never once quote the DoD or Obama administration saying what they claim
3) it's loving breitbart
4) Breitbart.

Oh I know, but that doesn't stop idiots from posting it and getting upset. Huffington Post is liberal rag while Breitbart is a totally legit newsource. :jerkbag:

seiferguy
Jun 9, 2005

FLAWED
INTUITION



Toilet Rascal
You mean that article isn't real? I was hoping all those things would happen :smith:

darthbob88
Oct 13, 2011

YOSPOS

suesehT posted:

All that would do is take jobs away from paid professionals who work on the city parks. Not at all a solution, or in any way a good idea.

That occurred to me after posting that, along with the idea that it'd just create a new source of slave labor; don't even need to actually pay them, just give them a waiver saying they worked 20 hours that week and get to not starve yet.

seiferguy
Jun 9, 2005

FLAWED
INTUITION



Toilet Rascal
I decided to gander at my friends who I blocked but kept on my friends list for avoiding family, and my deep fundie conservative Catholic cousin posted this:



Because these two things are completely equal!

Edit: ahahaha he posted this too: http://lifeteen.com/catholics-care-about-gays-the-myth-debunked/

The Catholic Church doesn't hate gays! We just want to take their ability to marry away! It even has the "I have plenty of homosexual friends" quote too.

seiferguy fucked around with this message at 02:31 on May 2, 2013

Gen. Ripper
Jan 12, 2013


seiferguy posted:

I decided to gander at my friends who I blocked but kept on my friends list for avoiding family, and my deep fundie conservative cousin posted this:



Because these two things are completely equal!

"Well if you were aborted of course you'd oppose it!" :psyduck:

Tomahawk
Aug 13, 2003

HE KNOWS

SaltLick posted:

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2013/05/01/Breaking-Pentagon-Confirms-Will-Court-Martial-Soldiers-Who-Share-Christian-Faith

Obama's war on Christianity continues.

Funny enough it is the non military friends I have that are freaking the gently caress out.

So Obama basically created Dont Ask Dont Tell for Christians? THANKS OBAMA

Nostalgia4Infinity
Feb 27, 2007

10,000 YEARS WASN'T ENOUGH LURKING

Tomahawk posted:

So Obama basically created Dont Ask Dont Tell for Christians? THANKS OBAMA

God I wish.

I mean could you imagine if Christians were forced to shut the hell up? :allears:

It'd be glorious...

SalTheBard
Jan 26, 2005

I forgot to post my food for USPOL Thanksgiving but that's okay too!

Fallen Rib
I got proselytized on a daily basis by this one rear end in a top hat in my office. I complained because hey I DON'T loving BELIEVE IN GOD, I got told to suck it up, but they said nothing to the rear end in a top hat who basically told me I was going to hell. I hope this poo poo really is happening because it would be great.

Aeka 2.0
Nov 16, 2000

:ohdear: Have you seen my apex seals? I seem to have lost them.




Dinosaur Gum

SaltLick posted:

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2013/05/01/Breaking-Pentagon-Confirms-Will-Court-Martial-Soldiers-Who-Share-Christian-Faith

Obama's war on Christianity continues.

Funny enough it is the non military friends I have that are freaking the gently caress out.

Found an article on what REALLY is going on:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...066e_story.html

I posted it on facebook to a breitbart post and I got this silly poo poo back instead:

Soviet Commubot
Oct 22, 2008


I must have had a way better experience in the Army than other goons posting here because even after seven years in combat arms I was under the impression that prosetylizing was technically against the rules and only ever done behind closed doors.

That said a lot of my former Army buddies are posting about how Obama is personally forbidding Christianity in the Army and :words:

Radbot
Aug 12, 2009
Probation
Can't post for 3 years!
When it comes to climate change stuff, I like to remind folks of where a large chunk of their oil comes from: those Arabs they hate so much. Installing PV panels and wind turbines increases American independence. "Personally, I don't like our leaders bowing to foreign sheiks and spending our gas money on terrorism, but if you do, you're entitled to your opinion" has worked before (I know it's inflammatory, racist, and incorrect, but it does work on many right wing denialists).

Tomahawk
Aug 13, 2003

HE KNOWS

Radbot posted:

When it comes to climate change stuff, I like to remind folks of where a large chunk of their oil comes from: those Arabs they hate so much. Installing PV panels and wind turbines increases American independence. "Personally, I don't like our leaders bowing to foreign sheiks and spending our gas money on terrorism, but if you do, you're entitled to your opinion" has worked before (I know it's inflammatory, racist, and incorrect, but it does work on many right wing denialists).

Uhh dont you realize we are sitting on top of all the oil we will ever need in our lifetime but Obummer refuses to drill?

If only we had a republican in office, we would drill baby, drill. And through the glory of the free market, that oil would collectively belong to us and not be sold to any other freedom hating country in the world and gas would be .50 cents a gallon just like the goodoledays

vyelkin
Jan 2, 2011
Besides that, the largest oil exporter to the US is actually us commies up here in Canada, and if OBUMMER would just approve the new pipelines you could have all the oil you want from the Alberta tar sands, which by some estimates are the single worst project in the world for global warming and carbon emissions.

Flaggy
Jul 6, 2007

Grandpa Cthulu needs his napping chair



Grimey Drawer

SaltLick posted:

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2013/05/01/Breaking-Pentagon-Confirms-Will-Court-Martial-Soldiers-Who-Share-Christian-Faith

Obama's war on Christianity continues.

Funny enough it is the non military friends I have that are freaking the gently caress out.

I accidentally read the comments section. Might be worse than freepers. Or even Fox News.

Zuhzuhzombie!!
Apr 17, 2008
FACTS ARE A CONSPIRACY BY THE CAPITALIST OPRESSOR
Breitbart and Ace of Spades are, quite literally, crypto fascists.

The Macaroni
Dec 20, 2002
...it does nothing.

Guilty Spork posted:

There's apparently a serious problem with hardcore evangelicals in the military coercing and harassing people who don't share their very specific flavor of Christianity, and if anything the military is overdue to actually do something about it.
Yeah, stuff like this has happened: U.S. Soldiers Punished for Not Attending Christian Concert

Not Christian? Too bad. Catholic, Mormon, Lutheran, or some other non-Evangelical flavor of Christianity? Too bad. Don't like crappy Christian rock? Too bad, go to the concert or spend the night locked down in your barracks.

quote:

... nine of [the soldiers punished] chose to pursue an EO complaint. I was surprised to find out that a couple of the most offended soldiers were actually Christian themselves (Catholic). One of them was grown [sic] as a child in Cuba and this incident enraged him particularly as it brought memories of oppression.

Nostalgia4Infinity
Feb 27, 2007

10,000 YEARS WASN'T ENOUGH LURKING

Guilty Spork posted:

Well first of all they called Mikey Weinstein an "anti-Christian extremist" when in real life a huge portion of his Military Religious Freedom Foundation's clients are Christians who want to serve in the military without being harassed by evangelicals. There's apparently a serious problem with hardcore evangelicals in the military coercing and harassing people who don't share their very specific flavor of Christianity, and if anything the military is overdue to actually do something about it.

The only time I've been to church service my entire life was the few times I went during basic training because I felt compelled. I was told I needed to go because it was air conditioned and no one yelled at you. I wound up going a total of three times before someone filled me in that if you didn't go you just hung out at the barracks and shined your boots.

Mo_Steel
Mar 7, 2008

Let's Clock Into The Sunset Together

Fun Shoe
I've never heard of this show or this person before, but it cropped up on Facebook lately and :holy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkzNL69L_h0

Terrorists shouldn't have rights, also the mother drives a Mercedes Benz and gets food stamps somehow (?). This thing is just all over the place with indignant rage.

Mo_Steel fucked around with this message at 15:37 on May 2, 2013

HiroProtagonist
May 7, 2007

Aeka 2.0 posted:

So what the hell is up with this anyway? My Facebook is exploding and I can't find an actual, real, statement from the pentagon about this. Is this just fox and breitbart being dumb? Nobody is writing an original article too, its all copy and paste from Fox it seems.

Most likely it's a small change in DoD regulations and it has absolutely no impact on the operation of the military in practice. That's probably why nobody else but Fox and Breitbart cares, and they only do because pandering.

Also holy poo poo the comments on that article. I'm not at all surprised, but :suicide:

e:

Guilty Spork posted:

There's apparently a serious problem with hardcore evangelicals in the military coercing and harassing people who don't share their very specific flavor of Christianity, and if anything the military is overdue to actually do something about it.

Oh, if it's actually that serious of a problem, then it's absolutely something that needs to happen. I have heard of isolated incidents from time to time of that kind of aggressive evangelistic poo poo in the ranks, but I assumed it was just the same percentage of extremist asshats in the military as you'd find in the general population that were responsible, not an endemic thing or anything.

HiroProtagonist fucked around with this message at 17:28 on May 2, 2013

VideoTapir
Oct 18, 2005

He'll tire eventually.

Flaggy posted:

I accidentally read the comments section. Might be worse than freepers. Or even Fox News.

Wait, what? Don't you have that backwards? Fox News in general is worse than Freep now?

PleasingFungus
Oct 10, 2012
idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off
My grandmother, who used to be a perfectly reasonable, liberal East Coast Jew, sent me this email yesterday.

FWD: Muslims posted:


We have no idea what these people have

contributed?? Do you!!

Have you ever seen a Muslim hospital?

Have you heard a Muslim orchestra?

Have you seen a Muslim band march in a parade?

Have you witnessed a Muslim charity?

Have you seen Muslims, shaken hands with a Muslim Girl
Scouts?

Have you seen a Muslim Candy Striper?

Have your seen a Muslim do anything that contributes
positively to the American way of life ????

The answer is no, you did not. Just ask yourself WHY ???



Barack Obama, during his Cairo speech, said:
"I know, too, that Islam has always been a part of America's history."

AN AMERICAN CITIZEN'S RESPONSE

Dear Mr. Obama:

Were those Muslims that were in America when the Pilgrims first landed?
Funny, I thought they were
Native American Indians.

Were those Muslims that celebrated the first Thanksgiving day?
Sorry again, those were Pilgrims and
Native American Indians.

Can you show me one Muslim signature on the: United States Constitution?
Declaration of Independence ?
Bill of Rights?
Didn't think so.

Did Muslims fight for this country's freedom from England?
No.

Did Muslims fight during the Civil War to free the slaves in America ?
No, they did not.
In fact, Muslims to this day are
still the largest traffickers in human slavery.
Your own half-brother, a devout
Muslim, still advocates slavery himself, even though Muslims of Arabic
descent refer to black Muslims as "pug nosed slaves."
Says a lot of what the Muslim world really thinks of your family's "rich
Islamic heritage," doesn't it Mr. Obama?

Where were Muslims during the Civil Rights era of this country?
Not present.
There are no pictures or media accounts of Muslims walking side by side with
Martin Luther King, Jr. or helping to advance the cause of Civil Rights.

Where were Muslims during this country's Woman's Suffrage era?
Again, not present.
In fact, devout Muslims demand that women are subservient to men in the
Islamic culture So much so, that often they are beaten for not wearing the
'hajib' or for talking to a man who is not a direct family member or their
husband.
Yep, the Muslims are all for women's rights, aren't they?

Where were Muslims during World War II?
They were aligned with Adolf Hitler.
The Muslim grand mufti himself met with Adolf Hitler, reviewed the troops
and accepted support from the Nazi's in killing Jews.

Finally, Mr. Obama, where were Muslims on Sept. 11th, 2001?
If they weren't flying planes into the World Trade Center, the Pentagon or a field in Pennsylvania killing
nearly 3,000 people on our own soil, they were rejoicing in the Middle East.

No one can dispute the pictures shown from all parts of the Muslim world celebrating on CNN, Fox News, MSNBC and other cable news networks that day.
Strangely, the very "moderate" Muslims
who's asses you bent over backwards to kiss in Cairo, Egypt on June 4th were
stone cold silent post 9-11.
To many Americans, their silence has meant approval
for the acts of that day.

And THAT, Mr. Obama,
is the "rich heritage" Muslims have here in America...

Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot to mention the Barbary Pirates.
They were Muslims.

And now we can add November 5, 2009 - the slaughter of American soldiers at
Fort Hood by a Muslim major, is a doctor and a psychiatrist , who was supposed

to be counseling soldiers returning from battle in Iraq and Afghanistan.

That, Mr. Obama
is the "Muslim heritage" in America

P.S. Now, also adding to the Boston Marthon bomblings, too!

EVERY AMERICAN MUST READ THIS !!
Be sure to SEND IT TO ALL.

Muslim Heritage, my rear end.
And if you don't share this message,
you are part of the problem!

I honestly don't know what's come over her. :(

I gave a point-by-point response, to which she replied:

Muslim Issue posted:

Dearest PleasingFungus,

Appreciated your reply. However.....

It seems you are showing more love for the Muslims then they would have for you.
If you were to go to an Arab or Muslim nation, proclaim your Jewishness, you would
find your head and your body separated quicker than you could snap your fingers.

Thomas Jefferson proclaimed, about 300 years ago that the biggest threat facing
our nation was Islamist fundamentalism. Look it up. Nothing has changed.

Grandma and Grandpa Fungus.

To which I replied:

PleasingFungus posted:

Thank you for reading my message! I hoped that all the work I put into it wouldn't go to waste.

Muslims and Jews have traditionally had good relations; Muslims considered Jews to be fellow People of the Book and allowed them to worship in peace. It's only within the last two centuries that relations have worsened in the Middle East specifically, where a combination of pan-Arab nationalism & Zionism have created enormous amounts of xenophobia. (To put it lightly!) Even now, though, many Jews live in predominantly Muslim countries; 23,000 live in Turkey, for example, and 25-30,000 live in Iran, where they are a protected minority with a guaranteed seat in the Iranian Parlaiment. And I very much doubt there is any country where I could announce my Jewishness and fear losing my head! (If you have evidence to the contrary, please correct me.)

Muslims are not some boogeymen who only reside in far-away lands. I had good Muslim friends in high school & college; at no point did they discriminate against me for my Jewishness. Nor are they restricted to the Middle East; roughly 60% of Muslims live in Asia, three times the number living in the Middle East. Muslims are people, just like you and I, but with a slightly different interpretation of the same holy word. To demonize & persecute them for those differences - just as the Jews have been persecuted by so many people over the millenia - is an enormous, monstrous irony.

To your second paragraph - Thomas Jefferson said no such thing. The only people you'll be able to find claiming otherwise are far-right-wing Christian zealots. What Jefferson did say about Islam was that it deserved religious protection - praising the wording of a Virginia bill protecting religious liberty, he admired its attempt "to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mahometan."

(Islamic fundamentalism was founded in the 18th century, but didn't have any real power or reach outside small Middle Eastern villages until the mid-19th century, when the nascent Saudi Arabian state seized on it to use as a moral justification for unification of the Arabian peninsula. Islamic fundamentalism was largely contained with Saudi Arabia until the US and UK launched campaigns, overt and covert, to destabilize Soviet-aligned governments in the Middle East by encouraging fundamentalist zealots; thus Egypt, Iran, Algeria, Afghanistan... etc. In any case, Jefferson would never have encountered it or heard of it.)

Love,
PleasingFungus

Some of this is shady (e.g. the exact situation of Persian Jews, which isn't exactly good, as well as including Turkey in a discussion of "Muslim countries"), but I'm just hoping to knock them out of whatever insane Freeper trance they're in and get them to start questioning & using their brains again.

I miss my grandparents :(

FlapYoJacks
Feb 12, 2009
I want to believe that you actually signed your email to your grandmother,

Love,
PleasingFungus

:allears:

PleasingFungus
Oct 10, 2012
idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

ratbert90 posted:

I want to believe that you actually signed your email to your grandmother,

Love,
PleasingFungus

:allears:

Names may have been changed.

(I do enjoy the 'Muslim Candy Striper' line. It's too absurd not to laugh at.)

The Macaroni
Dec 20, 2002
...it does nothing.
Come to think of it, my wife was a Muslim candy striper while in college. (She did not, in fact, wear candy stripes.)

JoshTheStampede
Sep 8, 2004

come at me bro

PleasingFungus posted:

Names may have been changed.

(I do enjoy the 'Muslim Candy Striper' line. It's too absurd not to laugh at.)

That's what really shines the light on how old and copy/pasted that thing is - when was the last time you heard someone use the term "candy striper"?

Guilty Spork
Feb 26, 2011

Thunder rolled. It rolled a six.

JoshTheStampede posted:

That's what really shines the light on how old and copy/pasted that thing is - when was the last time you heard someone use the term "candy striper"?
I saw the same forward a few weeks ago and had to look up what "candy striper" even means. I'm pretty sure there are still hospital volunteers, and I'm equally sure some of them are Muslims, even if statistically there must be relatively few of them.

OTOH doesn't "candy striper" just could incredibly dirty? You'd expect the news that your sister has become a candy striper to have your parents weeping and wondering where they went wrong.

OAquinas
Jan 27, 2008

Biden has sat immobile on the Iron Throne of America. He is the Master of Malarkey by the will of the gods, and master of a million votes by the might of his inexhaustible calamari.

Guilty Spork posted:

I saw the same forward a few weeks ago and had to look up what "candy striper" even means. I'm pretty sure there are still hospital volunteers, and I'm equally sure some of them are Muslims, even if statistically there must be relatively few of them.

OTOH doesn't "candy striper" just could incredibly dirty? You'd expect the news that your sister has become a candy striper to have your parents weeping and wondering where they went wrong.

Yeah, I just can't read it without adding that silent, additional p.

Radbot
Aug 12, 2009
Probation
Can't post for 3 years!

Tomahawk posted:

Uhh dont you realize we are sitting on top of all the oil we will ever need in our lifetime but Obummer refuses to drill?

If only we had a republican in office, we would drill baby, drill. And through the glory of the free market, that oil would collectively belong to us and not be sold to any other freedom hating country in the world and gas would be .50 cents a gallon just like the goodoledays

Yeah, if you're debating loving idiots, nothing will work. Most conservatives that have an ounce of business sense realize that oil is a commodity to be sold to the highest bidder, and that drilling like crazy will likely only provide China (!!!) with more oil. PV panels and other renewable energy sources still make sense from a purely jingoistic, low-info standpoint.

ProperGanderPusher
Jan 13, 2012




OAquinas posted:

Yeah, I just can't read it without adding that silent, additional p.

I honestly thought it was the name of a porn star. As in, they've never seen a porno with someone in a hijab playing a slutty nurse, like hypothetical porn actress Candy Striper, who everyone fapped to back in the 70s or whatever decade is was when the undoubtedly old-rear end author of the email came of age.

Defenestration
Aug 10, 2006

"It wasn't my fault that my first unconscious thought turned out to be-"
"Jesus, kid, what?"
"That something smelled delicious!"


Grimey Drawer

PleasingFungus posted:

My grandmother, who used to be a perfectly reasonable, liberal East Coast Jew, sent me this email yesterday.

I honestly don't know what's come over her. :(


Some of this is shady (e.g. the exact situation of Persian Jews, which isn't exactly good, as well as including Turkey in a discussion of "Muslim countries"), but I'm just hoping to knock them out of whatever insane Freeper trance they're in and get them to start questioning & using their brains again.

I miss my grandparents :(
I feel you. My liberal east coast jewish aunt has the same problem. She's Zionblind. AKA Racist as gently caress.

She got in a cab driven by an Ethiopian in SF and said that she was worried that this guy was going to "bomb her" so she didn't want to say she was coming from a bar mitzvah. Nevermind that the story ends with the dude explaining that Ethiopia has a large Jewish population and he just wanted to be friends.

We had a lovely conversation about Palestine the other week. For every time I used the term "apartheid" she used "bomb Israel into the sea"

How do they not see?

ProperGanderPusher
Jan 13, 2012




Defenestration posted:

I feel you. My liberal east coast jewish aunt has the same problem. She's Zionblind. AKA Racist as gently caress.

She got in a cab driven by an Ethiopian in SF and said that she was worried that this guy was going to "bomb her" so she didn't want to say she was coming from a bar mitzvah. Nevermind that the story ends with the dude explaining that Ethiopia has a large Jewish population and he just wanted to be friends.

We had a lovely conversation about Palestine the other week. For every time I used the term "apartheid" she used "bomb Israel into the sea"

How do they not see?

It's common among us goyim and our own left-leaning relatives as well. I once had an interest in doing a semester abroad in Malta, and my mother asked "Isn't that close to North Africa? Isn't North Africa filled with Muslims? Oh, Malta is mostly Christian? Well, it's too close to Africa, so it doesn't sound safe."

My stepdad basically said I'd be skinned alive for being white if I went there.

While my mother is still a dyed-in-the-wool liberal Democrat, 9/11 succeeded in making her, along with a lot of other liberals I know, absolutely terrified of anything having to do with Islam.

Mecca-Benghazi
Mar 31, 2012


Defenestration posted:

She got in a cab driven by an Ethiopian in SF and said that she was worried that this guy was going to "bomb her" so she didn't want to say she was coming from a bar mitzvah. Nevermind that the story ends with the dude explaining that Ethiopia has a large Jewish population and he just wanted to be friends.
I'm curious, did she not know about Beta Israelis or is this a "person looks Muslim!!" thing? Or both?

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HiroProtagonist
May 7, 2007

Defenestration posted:

How do they not see?

Upbringing.

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