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U.S. Barryl posted:I've got a lot of "natural remedy" people on my feed lately. I'm user #3 and nobody will listen to me. I don't want to come on too strong and tell them that I'm actually studying medicine, since they seem to distrust medicine anyway. My favorite response to these types is that the 'evil industry' wouldn't suppress a cure for cancer that involved eating raw foods/putting homeopathic candles in your butt/whatever, they would study what makes that work and how it works, create a better method of doing that with medicine, THEN gently caress you up the rear end economically with their new cure. It's just retarded to think that everyone all over the world; nay even just this country can and will keep 'miracle cures' under wraps to keep their current industry going without changing it one bit. Then, after they openly admit they will believe anything based on an internet marketing landing page's claims and a YouTube music video or two, they are arrogant enough to claim that their eyes are 'more open' and they are 'free' compared to the rest of us moronic, closed minded idiots who tend to more strongly believe in things that can be observed, repeated, and confirmed. (and didn't happen to see the same YouTube music video) If I were a judge I would declare a restraining order to keep the right brains of these people separate from their left brains at all times, because that's all that kind of poo poo is: fantasy based poo poo that makes them feel good and enlightened that they can't separate from reality because they are unwilling to consider that they themselves might be loving retards. Omglosser fucked around with this message at 13:15 on May 1, 2013 |
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May 1, 2013 13:12
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Mo_Steel posted:To expand upon this with program data instead of first hand accounts, here Quoting this so hopefully I remember to download when I have the chance. First thing I'm going to search for is 'lobster'.
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May 1, 2013 13:13
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Omglosser posted:Then, after they openly admit they will believe anything based on an internet marketing landing page's claims and a YouTube music video or two, they are arrogant enough to claim that their eyes are 'more open' and they are 'free' compared to the rest of us moronic, closed minded idiots who tend to more strongly believe in things that can be observed, repeated, and confirmed. (and didn't happen to see the same YouTube music video) Later on in the conversation she finally linked me to one peer reviewed study by the doctor in the original image macro. The study was from 1956 and the hypothesis has been thoroughly debunked since then. I provided several studies to disprove the "Warburg Theory," but of course, just because science disproved it, it doesn't refute the claims of "literally millions of people all over the world who have cured their cancers by healthy eating." Also, I got dogpiled by more of her vegan hipster friends, so I just quit responding.
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May 1, 2013 14:48
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e: this belongs in the political cartoons thread. Carry on... aBagorn fucked around with this message at 15:25 on May 1, 2013 |
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May 1, 2013 15:19
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I think you'll find that arguing with people that believe in natural remedies is almost futile. There's like this whole world view built on the belief that medicine is out to kill you and take all your money. Here's a terribly depressing example that was posted in a Goon Doctor thread.  http://peacelovemelanoma.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/dont-look-if-you-have-weak-stomach.html It's a woman with stage IV melanoma that does natural treatments in Europe and a whole bunch of other stuff. In this particular example she is documenting her experience with black salve, a "remedy used by the Native Americans" to cure cancer. She thinks the necrotic eschar that forms is the cancer being pulled out of her body. If actually starts off with a lower stage cancer and then metastasizes to her brain (!), which she gets surgery for and then promptly goes back to getting massages and poo poo to cure her. She even makes a frank display of denial when she gets PET scan results that shows metastasis all over her body and she's like, "I don't believe it because I feel so good!" I stayed up late one night reading almost all of her posts and it really bummed me out.
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May 1, 2013 15:20
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U.S. Barryl posted:Later on in the conversation she finally linked me to one peer reviewed study by the doctor in the original image macro. The study was from 1956 and the hypothesis has been thoroughly debunked since then. I provided several studies to disprove the "Warburg Theory," but of course, just because science disproved it, it doesn't refute the claims of "literally millions of people all over the world who have cured their cancers by healthy eating." "Your research is invalid because it is not my research." I had this same kind of debate with this hippie I work with about the dangers of GMO's. She kept insisting that I was too closed minded/stupid to consider who funded the studies that say GMO's are so far known to be completely safe. All of the studies she provided were funded by organizations who, by their namesake, exclusively are out to prove that GMO's are dangerous. I just shook my head and wandered off. Laminator posted:I think you'll find that arguing with people that believe in natural remedies is almost futile. There's like this whole world view built on the belief that medicine is out to kill you and take all your money. Jesus. If you just look at the before and after pictures and nothing else, it's easy to see what difference that black salve made. Omglosser fucked around with this message at 15:29 on May 1, 2013 |
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May 1, 2013 15:20
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Well this is a refreshing change of pace. Global Warming. Here's what's been linked so far: https://tiny.iavian.net/wzd http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySV_NNKbWnQ
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May 1, 2013 15:21
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Soonmot posted:Facebook just informed me that the crazy right wing cop I went to highschool with has "liked" Lifelock. Lifelock is a good service if you've had your identity stolen.
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May 1, 2013 15:31
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:Lifelock is a good service if you've had your identity stolen. Didn't the CEO get his identity stolen 10 times or so after publicly posting his SSN?
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May 1, 2013 16:11
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Have you seen my apex seals? I seem to have lost them.
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DarkHorse posted:Well this is a refreshing change of pace. Global Warming.  ") Good luck with getting him to stop moving the goalposts!Also,  at all that "optimal" temperature bullshit. He might as well have said, "... but what about all the the good things that come with desertification and rising sea levels?"
Tibeerius fucked around with this message at 16:21 on May 1, 2013 |
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May 1, 2013 16:15
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DarkHorse posted:Well this is a refreshing change of pace. Global Warming. I commend your tenacity in the face of apathy and ignorance. I myself would have bailed after he posted a video from noted intellectual and accomplished scientist Michael Crichton.
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May 1, 2013 16:16
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I hope the Michael Crichton video doesn't foreshadow the rest of the argument. When a critic panned his anti-AGW techno thriller, Crichton inserted him as a child molester with a small penis in his next book.
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May 1, 2013 16:32
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:Lifelock is a good service if you've had your identity stolen. I thought it was one of those protection money scams that run on right wing radio?
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May 1, 2013 17:20
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Soonmot posted:I thought it was one of those protection money scams that run on right wing radio? It's identity theft protection that runs on all talk radio, generally, it just so happens the most listened to shows are of course right wing talk radio. I think they might specifically not advertise with Rush because of the Sandra Fluke thing.
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May 1, 2013 17:25
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greatn posted:It's identity theft protection that runs on all talk radio, generally, it just so happens the most listened to shows are of course right wing talk radio. I think they might specifically not advertise with Rush because of the Sandra Fluke thing. They definitely still advertise on Rush. He constantly pivots from news into stories about some lady getting her identity stolen and "Hey, this is a big problem, shoulda got lifelock."
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May 1, 2013 17:53
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Laminator posted:I think you'll find that arguing with people that believe in natural remedies is almost futile. There's like this whole world view built on the belief that medicine is out to kill you and take all your money. This is so sad.
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May 1, 2013 18:01
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I don't know what's worse: Internet libertarians using dog whistle racism or their spelling. 
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May 1, 2013 18:11
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DarkHorse posted:Well this is a refreshing change of pace. Global Warming. 97% of actively-publishing climatologists, 36 national science academies and NASA all agree that anthropogenic global warming is a thing. Point that out and ask if all those scientists are either lying or stupid. Don't let them avoid the question. Right now you are typing waaaay too much.
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May 1, 2013 18:12
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baw posted:97% of actively-publishing climatologists, 36 national science academies and NASA all agree that anthropogenic global warming is a thing. Point that out and ask if all those scientists are either lying or stupid. Don't let them avoid the question. Right now you are typing waaaay too much. Pretty much this. Ask them what their threshold is for consensus among scientists before they'll agree. What % of scientists need to agree eating paint chips is bad before you'd stop doing it?
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May 1, 2013 18:15
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Tibeerius posted:Also, A Montana state politician, a number of years ago and I forget the specifics, made a statement that global warming represented a positive thing for the state of Montana, moving arable land further North, increasing the average rainfall for Montana, and overall moderating their climate through increased humidity. I'm sure in his head he added a mental "Just sayin'." baw posted:97% of actively-publishing climatologists, 36 national science academies and NASA all agree that anthropogenic global warming is a thing. Point that out and ask if all those scientists are either lying or stupid. Don't let them avoid the question. Right now you are typing waaaay too much. I find the best way to phrase that, since giving a number like 97% kind of intimidates some people into calling BS, is to phrase it like this: The same percentage of climate scientists agree that global warming is caused by mankind as the percentage of medical researchers who agree that second-hand smoke causes cancer. It works as a great parallel, because no one denies that tobacco companies pay scientists to deny cancer. XyloJW fucked around with this message at 18:19 on May 1, 2013 |
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May 1, 2013 18:17
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Global warming deniers have been inoculated against the oil money argument by accusations that climate scientists are somehow in the business of claiming anthropogenic climate change for the money; you know those limitless big government research grants.
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May 1, 2013 18:34
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If I've typed a lot, it's because I have no idea what his position actually is just from what he typed and I'm trying to pull him out. I started with the short stuff, and as he gets more engaged I'll pull out the 97% of scientists statistic. I honestly had to hold that fact back, because I know from past experience he'd just ignore it if it wasn't in the right context. It should be clear from his response he isn't arriving at his position as a logical conclusion, just leaping directly to it. If I can get him state exactly what his hang up is I'll be able to bury him with the evidence, including if he says "scientists don't know!" but until then I'll have to build the argument brick by brick. Otherwise he'll be moving the goalposts as someone already predicted. In the meantime I have to play nice and dumb to keep him talking.
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May 1, 2013 18:42
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When it comes to the Global Warming debate, I take a different route. Generally I say "Even if it's true or not, isn't better to push for less pollution anyways?" And bring up real known facts about how air pollution carries health risks such as an increase in asthma, some kinds of cancers, and other lung issues. Hell, it's starting to have an economic impact in China as employers are finding it more difficult to recruit expats to do a foreign assignment there because people don't want to endanger their health in such a way.
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May 1, 2013 19:10
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seiferguy posted:When it comes to the Global Warming debate, I take a different route. Generally I say "Even if it's true or not, isn't better to push for less pollution anyways?" And bring up real known facts about how air pollution carries health risks such as an increase in asthma, some kinds of cancers, and other lung issues. Hell, it's starting to have an economic impact in China as employers are finding it more difficult to recruit expats to do a foreign assignment there because people don't want to endanger their health in such a way. Yeah, and I'm surprised more people don't take that route. I tend to look at it this way, anyway. Reducing pollution in general should be a priority for many reasons, including Climate Change.
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May 1, 2013 19:13
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There was a huge fight even over the classification of CO2 as a pollutant. "Trees need it, how can it be bad?  "
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May 1, 2013 19:18
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Doctor Butts posted:Quoting this so hopefully I remember to download when I have the chance. First thing I'm going to search for is 'lobster'. Ahh, that report was more focused on how and where and when recipients spend their money, not on what specifically; it was more a reference to how people don't typically carry much of a balance over. The most important takeaway from that particular study I think is that a majority of food stamp recipients are expected to spend some of their own money on food each month anyway. This means that even if you were to pass some policy that restricted food stamp usage on steaks (nevermind the administrative hassles of defining what specific products qualify as restricted and all the systematic changes at the store level that would have to go into place to enforce it) then you aren't going to change much because the majority of SNAP recipients will just spend their own money on steaks and spend food stamps on the things they would've normally bought with their cash, when possible. This is the same reason why it isn't a good idea to restrict food stamp usage on snacks or treats: we don't have a broad, clear way to easily judge dietary quality across specific food items, it adds complexity and costs money to implement, and doesn't impact a problem that doesn't really exist because food stamp users eat about as healthy or healthier than other households.
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May 1, 2013 19:38
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seiferguy posted:When it comes to the Global Warming debate, I take a different route. Generally I say "Even if it's true or not, isn't better to push for less pollution anyways?" And bring up real known facts about how air pollution carries health risks such as an increase in asthma, some kinds of cancers, and other lung issues. Hell, it's starting to have an economic impact in China as employers are finding it more difficult to recruit expats to do a foreign assignment there because people don't want to endanger their health in such a way. For perspective, he was skeptical/incredulous about the recent off-the-charts air quality readings in China, and if I remember right eventually ended up blaming it on socialism/regulations somehow. 
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May 1, 2013 19:38
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The Dark One posted:There was a huge fight even over the classification of CO2 as a pollutant. A truckload of manure should be placed in the living room of every person who says that.
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May 1, 2013 19:42
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Even the American Association of Petroleum Geologists affirms Anthropogenic Climate Change. They cannot benefit from a global warming hoax conspiracy. The only reason for their stance is scientific integrity. This is comparable to the NRA saying that guns pose a considerable health hazard and don't offer any measurable increase in security.
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May 1, 2013 19:53
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Guilty Spork posted:Dunno how reputable it is, but it was trivially easy to find this National Review article explaining how the government's large ammo purchase was basically buying in bulk to be more efficient (god forbid the gov't might actually find a way to be efficient once in a while), with a lot of the weirder-sounding destinations (like the USDA) being for obscure sub-agencies' armed agents (like how the Forest Service, which is a part of the USDA, has a relatively small number of armed agents serve as law enforcement on federal lands) to use, and then mainly on the firing range. Also, even the NRA is calling the conspiracy theories about this bunk, and if the NRA is passing up a chance to paint something as a threat to gun owners it's got to be pretty far out there. This was perfect, thank you.
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May 1, 2013 19:57
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The Dark One posted:There was a huge fight even over the classification of CO2 as a pollutant. I wonder who'd be spreading silly ideas li... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAaDVOd2sRQ Oh.
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May 1, 2013 21:08
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DarkHorse posted:He is also a freemarket libertarian and has issues with regulation costing too much, etc., so I wanted to avoid that aspect for now, otherwise I would absolutely use that argument. Heh, nothing illuminates the fevered worldview of the libertarian and the lengths they will go to handwave problems away like the environment (also healthcare). As far as his assertion that global warming could be a positive or a negative, who knows?!? bullshit, you could point out that the US Military and the CIA already consider climate change to be a destabilizing force and an "accelerant of instability or conflict". http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jan/31/pentagon-ranks-global-warming-destabilising-force http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/10/science/earth/climate-change-report-outlines-perils-for-us-military.html
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May 1, 2013 21:31
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800peepee51doodoo posted:Heh, nothing illuminates the fevered worldview of the libertarian and the lengths they will go to handwave problems away like the environment (also healthcare). Here are the two main references I've been using: http://scienceblogs.com/illconsidered/2008/07/how-to-talk-to-a-sceptic/ http://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php
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May 1, 2013 22:27
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quote:This is wrong on so many levels. If this is allowed to survive, it won't stop at Christianity. Freedom of Religion is a Right. Excersiceing that right should be allowed to all U.S. Citizens...ESPECIALLY those who fight to defend that right! Won't someone stand up for the largest religious demographic in the country?
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May 1, 2013 23:26
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borkencode posted:Won't someone stand up for the largest religious demographic in the country? So what the hell is up with this anyway? My Facebook is exploding and I can't find an actual, real, statement from the pentagon about this. Is this just fox and breitbart being dumb? Nobody is writing an original article too, its all copy and paste from Fox it seems.
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May 1, 2013 23:29
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:He's black. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcZ9ku_wInw
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May 2, 2013 00:20
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The Dark One posted:There was a huge fight even over the classification of CO2 as a pollutant.
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May 2, 2013 00:23
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Aeka 2.0 posted:So what the hell is up with this anyway? My Facebook is exploding and I can't find an actual, real, statement from the pentagon about this. Is this just fox and breitbart being dumb? Nobody is writing an original article too, its all copy and paste from Fox it seems.
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May 2, 2013 00:24
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Guilty Spork posted:Well first of all they called Mikey Weinstein an "anti-Christian extremist" when in real life a huge portion of his Military Religious Freedom Foundation's clients are Christians who want to serve in the military without being harassed by evangelicals. There's apparently a serious problem with hardcore evangelicals in the military coercing and harassing people who don't share their very specific flavor of Christianity, and if anything the military is overdue to actually do something about it. He talks a lot about this issue in his book "With God on Our Side" I was really suprised how bad it is in certain branches of the military.
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May 2, 2013 00:32
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http://kfor.com/2013/04/30/governor-signs-food-stamp-reform-into-law/ Oklahoma continues to lead the nation in bring dumb as hell. Read the comments for some typical drivel about welfare queens and how CEOs and corporations deserve tax breaks. Of course my classmates think this is a good thing.
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May 2, 2013 00:42
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