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Hav posted:Yeah, the ramp start for the DCS A-10 is the gold standard for over-simming, closely followed by Black Shark, but it's worth pointing out that the buttons that you're pressing actually have an effect. Forgetting the EKRAN or autopilot channels on Black Shark before takeoff is it's own reward. I'm with you, and I think that there's space in the market for differing levels of engagement from different projects. In Black Shark you're actually learning to fly a piece of real world machinery complete with mechanical foibles, whereas your starfighter is a vaguely abstract concept. And even the DCS games include easy start-up modes and non-sim flight models if you just want to fly the drat things and not preemptively qualify for military service. But its a lot easier to develop those things when they already exist in the real world. Developing a worthwhile 15 minute start-up sequence for completely fictional technology is a waste of time to any size of team.
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May 10, 2013 00:54
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On the subject of detailed start up sequences, most games don't need them, but having them in there gets you to feel more involved and more immersed in the game itself. Everything you are doing in that start up sequence reaches an end result that you created. The plane/helicopter/ship takes off because you pressed the buttons to make it move, and its a very rewarding feeling of completeness. It helps you focus and enter a zone where you pay attention to the little dials and switches and kbobs and takes you away from the whole experience of just watching a score number rack up.
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May 10, 2013 01:09
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Ringo Star Get posted:On the subject of detailed start up sequences, most games don't need them, but having them in there gets you to feel more involved and more immersed in the game itself. Everything you are doing in that start up sequence reaches an end result that you created. The plane/helicopter/ship takes off because you pressed the buttons to make it move, and its a very rewarding feeling of completeness. It helps you focus and enter a zone where you pay attention to the little dials and switches and kbobs and takes you away from the whole experience of just watching a score number rack up. This goes so well with your avatar.
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May 10, 2013 01:14
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Ringo Star Get posted:On the subject of detailed start up sequences, most games don't need them, but having them in there gets you to feel more involved and more immersed in the game itself. Everything you are doing in that start up sequence reaches an end result that you created. The plane/helicopter/ship takes off because you pressed the buttons to make it move, and its a very rewarding feeling of completeness. It helps you focus and enter a zone where you pay attention to the little dials and switches and kbobs and takes you away from the whole experience of just watching a score number rack up. A good portion of the player base just wants to shoot things and focus on the actual battle, not hitting 50 buttons to leave a docking bay. I can be immersed in a military style game without having to scrub toilets or wake up at dawn to run 15 miles. I certainly don't need to learn a startup sequence for a spaceship that doesn't exist.
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May 10, 2013 01:19
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Kibayasu posted:And even the DCS games include easy start-up modes and non-sim flight models if you just want to fly the drat things and not preemptively qualify for military service. But its a lot easier to develop those things when they already exist in the real world. Developing a worthwhile 15 minute start-up sequence for completely fictional technology is a waste of time to any size of team.
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May 10, 2013 01:26
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Zaodai posted:A good portion of the player base just wants to shoot things and focus on the actual battle, not hitting 50 buttons to leave a docking bay. I can be immersed in a military style game without having to scrub toilets or wake up at dawn to run 15 miles. I'm not saying that ES needs a start up sequence, just making a point that start up sequences can be fun as hell. I think even just an interesting "launch" from the ship will be more than enough, most games just plop you right in space. Bruxism posted:This goes so well with your avatar. Ahyup. One of my favorite things to do in DCS Black Shark was to pretend I am a five year old that got onto an airbase and I have to get the helo to take off as soon as possible by jamming buttons and hitting switches.
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May 10, 2013 01:29
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Insert name here posted:I don't really care much for intricate start-up sequences, but what I wish for is games to be really spergy about damage modelling. I want to fly my multi-engine fighter around, take a burst to an engine which kills it, and then suddenly have to deal with asymmetrical thrust as I skid around space at an odd angle. Instead of just reducing an arbitrary hull percentage to 0% you kill enemy fighters by hitting important things to knock em out and/or make em explode. Stuff like that. Most space sims are all or nothing when it comes to your ship where a 1% hull ship is just as functional as a 100% hull ship. The closest a space sim has come to this is probably Wing Commander where your fighter can get real hosed up with your targeting systems, engine, radio and such just bugging out. I know Freespace 2 technically has modules on fighters but in all my years of playing that game I'm pretty sure I can count the amount of times I've seen modules destroyed in that game on one hand. I want this from all kinds of games. I want granularity of damage: Take a burst of fire to the front right of my ship, and I want the stuff located up there to spark and sizzle and not work. I want to know what's happening, but in a way that doesn't feel like a health bar, or a schematic that turns darker red as I get blowed up. I want a destroyed thruster to cause me to only be able to turn left, and have to work around that failure to get away with my skin. EDIT: Ringo Star Get posted:I'm not saying that ES needs a start up sequence, just making a point that start up sequences can be fun as hell. I think even just an interesting "launch" from the ship will be more than enough, most games just plop you right in space. Even if it was as simple as flying out of the mothership/carrier, it lends a sense of ownership to whatever you're defending.
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May 10, 2013 01:30
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Far from a sim I know, but in X3 docking manually with stations once in a while gave me a quiet little smile. Most of the time yeah, just set SETA to max autopilot come on get on with it already, but as an optional thing it was kinda nice. 
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May 10, 2013 01:37
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Ringo Star Get posted:I'm not saying that ES needs a start up sequence, just making a point that start up sequences can be fun as hell. I think even just an interesting "launch" from the ship will be more than enough, most games just plop you right in space.  to me.
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May 10, 2013 02:13
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Yep, definitely an awesome, exciting sequence to throw the player into the flight part of the game.
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May 10, 2013 02:35
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Ciaphas posted:Far from a sim I know, but in X3 docking manually with stations once in a while gave me a quiet little smile. Most of the time yeah, just set SETA to max autopilot come on get on with it already, but as an optional thing it was kinda nice. This is something the various Elite ports did quite well, it was satisfying as hell manually flying a the docking sequence and totally nailing it. I never bothered with the autopilot. On the other hand, the physics in Frontier Elite II made autopilot an absolute necessity.
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May 10, 2013 02:41
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Ringo Star Get posted:On the subject of detailed start up sequences, most games don't need them, but having them in there gets you to feel more involved and more immersed in the game itself. Everything you are doing in that start up sequence reaches an end result that you created. The plane/helicopter/ship takes off because you pressed the buttons to make it move, and its a very rewarding feeling of completeness. It helps you focus and enter a zone where you pay attention to the little dials and switches and kbobs and takes you away from the whole experience of just watching a score number rack up. I want the illusion of this without having to do anything. Like the startup sequence in Mechwarrior 2, with the computer voice saying stuff and the displays bleeping up.
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May 10, 2013 15:42
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What about quicktime events for things like reactor ignition and launch catapults? 
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May 10, 2013 16:17
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Kairo posted:One ship right now (the Executor), which is mostly because I will only have to make one functioning cockpit. However, I am going to make loadouts go beyond weapon selection and have both pros and cons. So in the end you can make your ship feel like something different. I get where you're coming from though! I may have been beaten here, but you can just give all ships the same cockpit and handwave it as a modular cockpit system. Like in Space: Above and Beyond!
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May 10, 2013 16:26
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Bistromatic posted:What about quicktime events for things like reactor ignition and launch catapults? Press X to
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May 10, 2013 16:28
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doctorfrog posted:I wonder if Rogue System will make it. I like the complications and realism that they plan on putting in it, but any time I have to use a mouse to hit toggle switches, I start to lose interest. I guess there's a sweet spot. I really wanted Rogue System to succeed, I plugged the kickstarter repeatedly to my fanbase who generally adore anything with spaceships, I think I brought in a few thousand in KS pledges, but that was still1% of the goal. Still I'm looking forwards to playing ES
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May 10, 2013 20:46
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ROCKET SCIENCE
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Kairo posted:I love the Homeworld games! I think I skipped a week of class in college just to play the drat game when it came out (drat I'm old). My copy of Spacecraft, 2000-2100 A.D.: Terran Trade Authority Handbook should be arriving any day now. This book, along with Chris Foss's, evidently inspired a lot of their designs. Good god I used to read my dad's copy of this all the time, I spent most of my childhood designing ships inspired by this.
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May 10, 2013 20:49
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MrYenko posted:I want this from all kinds of games. I want granularity of damage: Take a burst of fire to the front right of my ship, and I want the stuff located up there to spark and sizzle and not work. I want to know what's happening, but in a way that doesn't feel like a health bar, or a schematic that turns darker red as I get blowed up. I want a destroyed thruster to cause me to only be able to turn left, and have to work around that failure to get away with my skin. Tie Fighter had some of this. I forget all the effects, but I definitely remember that your radar could be destroyed. I don't remember if there was an intermediate state before that. The side and back cameras could also get damaged. I don't remember if the map could ever get knocked out. Could shields or weapon systems on your ship get taken out? That I don't remember. Just having the radar system go down was a real "oh poo poo" moment, though, whenever it happened. I also loved being able to shunt laser energy into engines on the missile boats (who needs lasers when you have more concussion missiles than God?), turn on the afterburners and zip around like a mobile platform of death.
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May 10, 2013 21:40
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My favorite part of Tie Fighter was spending 15 minutes in a mission getting all of the secondary and hidden objectives, and then dying from a broken part of an X-Wing I just killed. I hope this game has a similar mechanic so I may impact test my xbox controller more effectively.
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May 10, 2013 22:44
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Bolow posted:My favorite part of Tie Fighter was spending 15 minutes in a mission getting all of the secondary and hidden objectives, and then dying from a broken part of an X-Wing I just killed. At least it's realistic! Tie-anythings usually have the strength of a paper plane in every Star Wars game I've played. e: Or rather, a paper plane packed with explosives that go off the instant someone so much as farts. doctorfrog posted:Starshatter Oh man, I still have that game installed. Twenty Drunk Apes fucked around with this message at 00:11 on May 11, 2013 |
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May 10, 2013 23:23
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Given that the game has permadeath, having to nervously "limp along home" on a malfunctioning ship could provide some memorable moments. I could also see some people really complaining about it, like breakable weapons in Far Cry 2 or System Shock. You don't necessarily want to make a player feel helpless and frustrated, you want them to feel god drat magnificent when they figure out a daring escape. It's been over a year since I played Starshatter (open source and freeware now, check it out*), and I wouldn't advocate this exact model for this game, but it had individual systems that could be crippled and no magic bubble shields, and no magical repair meters. If something broke, you'd have to deal with it. (The fighters and bombers were also as delicate as butterflies, like TIE fighters. When you "died" you simply flew another fighter/bomber/frigate/carrier, but that spacecraft was forever taken out of the war, so you'd be affecting attrition rate.) Like IL-2, I'd had to limp home more than once on thrusters alone, or with overheating systems, or get my weapons shot out before striking anything. Likewise, I was able to do that to enemy fighters (or so the game convinced me). I've also been completely boned and have had my control or drive system shot out, and unfortunately, there were no automated rescue craft  * Read about it on my lovely blog here: https://drfrog.wordpress.com/2012/02/06/starshatter/
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May 10, 2013 23:45
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animatorZed posted:Tie Fighter had some of this. I forget all the effects, but I definitely remember that your radar could be destroyed. I don't remember if there was an intermediate state before that. The side and back cameras could also get damaged. I don't remember if the map could ever get knocked out. Important systems like weapons and shields could definitely be knocked out. I still remember doing one mission where I stupidly went into a head-to-head pass against an X-wing in my TIE Avenger, killed him but suffered some nasty damage, half the cockpit displays were busted out and much more worryingly, my engines had been knocked offline. It was quite tense sitting there at the edge of a dogfight for the minute or so it took the engines to auto-repair.
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May 10, 2013 23:50
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Galaga Galaxian posted:Important systems like weapons and shields could definitely be knocked out. I still remember doing one mission where I stupidly went into a head-to-head pass against an X-wing in my TIE Avenger, killed him but suffered some nasty damage, half the cockpit displays were busted out and much more worryingly, my engines had been knocked offline. It was quite tense sitting there at the edge of a dogfight for the minute or so it took the engines to auto-repair. Pfft auto repair. You should have to get out and fix it during EVA.
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May 11, 2013 00:07
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doctorfrog posted:* Read about it on my lovely blog here: https://drfrog.wordpress.com/2012/02/06/starshatter/
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May 11, 2013 00:31
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Galaga Galaxian posted:Important systems like weapons and shields could definitely be knocked out. I still remember doing one mission where I stupidly went into a head-to-head pass against an X-wing in my TIE Avenger, killed him but suffered some nasty damage, half the cockpit displays were busted out and much more worryingly, my engines had been knocked offline. It was quite tense sitting there at the edge of a dogfight for the minute or so it took the engines to auto-repair. Yeah, I remember these now. Good times 
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May 11, 2013 00:44
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Galaga Galaxian posted:Important systems like weapons and shields could definitely be knocked out. I still remember doing one mission where I stupidly went into a head-to-head pass against an X-wing in my TIE Avenger, killed him but suffered some nasty damage, half the cockpit displays were busted out and much more worryingly, my engines had been knocked offline. It was quite tense sitting there at the edge of a dogfight for the minute or so it took the engines to auto-repair. *Cough cough. Enemy Starfighter: Disabled to Recovery Transition
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May 11, 2013 00:54
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In TIE Fighter you'd have to call for a shuttle to come repair you, and you'd pray to Emperor Palpatine as the distance winded down that an A-Wing wouldn't fly by and sneeze on you.
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May 11, 2013 02:03
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So this looks rad as hell and is bringing back all the wonderful memories of the X-Wing Series I'd built up in my youth. Do we have the faintest idea when this comes out?
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May 11, 2013 03:00
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Spiritus Nox posted:So this looks rad as hell and is bringing back all the wonderful memories of the X-Wing Series I'd built up in my youth. Do we have the faintest idea when this comes out? Sometime this year, that's the extent of our knowledge until Kairo says otherwise.
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May 11, 2013 03:10
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Insert name here posted:This game looks cool and I'll probably get around to trying it but you should probably edit this article so it actually points to the working download pages (the one you linked in the comments). Fixed! I did have the correct links up at the beginning of the article, but I was lazy and didn't fix the bottom bits. Should be a lot clearer now. Thanks!
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May 11, 2013 07:33
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I love that little *flik* *flik* sound as the engine tries to restart.
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May 11, 2013 07:34
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Bubbacub posted:I want the illusion of this without having to do anything. Like the startup sequence in Mechwarrior 2, with the computer voice saying stuff and the displays bleeping up. It might be an idea for sloading screens - like it will dump you into battle as soon as the level has loaded anyway, but in the meantime you can sit in the hangar and hit buttons that give messages like "Fusion Engine ignited" "Oxygen tanks stirred" "Master Weapons Switch Armed" etc.
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May 11, 2013 08:24
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Bubbacub posted:I want the illusion of this without having to do anything. Like the startup sequence in Mechwarrior 2, with the computer voice saying stuff and the displays bleeping up.
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May 12, 2013 02:12
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doctorfrog posted:I love that little *flik* *flik* sound as the engine tries to restart. Reminds me of trying to get a gas grill lit on a windy day. Now I have a mental image of the pilot hanging out over the back end of the ship furiously flicking his lighter at the exhaust port and muttering curses to himself.
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May 12, 2013 02:32
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I am so loving stoked for this. I would love for there to be something of a Battlestar Galactica mode for this where fleet supplies are super limited and you're on the run from an overwhelming force while trying to scrounge supplies in any way possible. Make it to where you have to heavily ration things like Missiles and limit fighter casualties because you will only have limited reserves available.
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May 12, 2013 03:02
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DeathSandwich posted:I am so loving stoked for this. I would love for there to be something of a Battlestar Galactica mode for this where fleet supplies are super limited and you're on the run from an overwhelming force while trying to scrounge supplies in any way possible. Make it to where you have to heavily ration things like Missiles and limit fighter casualties because you will only have limited reserves available. So, a 3D, first person FTL? Make sure the RNG screws you at every available opportunity.
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May 12, 2013 03:03
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DeathSandwich posted:I am so loving stoked for this. I would love for there to be something of a Battlestar Galactica mode for this where fleet supplies are super limited and you're on the run from an overwhelming force while trying to scrounge supplies in any way possible. Make it to where you have to heavily ration things like Missiles and limit fighter casualties because you will only have limited reserves available.
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May 12, 2013 05:00
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MrYenko posted:So, a 3D, first person FTL? I hope there are more games like FTL, where limping/losing/dying is taken into account as an element of gameplay. I think it's significant that my favorite memories from FTL involve how I lost the game... I'd love to see that put into a pseudosim like this.
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May 12, 2013 07:08
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Alehkhs posted:[url=https://twitter.com/Tipul]   I don't even care if he adds interior chutes, that is loving awesome on pretty much every level.
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May 25, 2013 22:26
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