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Ah, ok then. It has been a while since I used the old tech screen. E: Dull new page, sorry :/
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May 11, 2013 18:31
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Darkrenown posted:Sure, that's part of having an economy, I'm not sure what you're getting at though. The problem is that it's frustrating and not fun to go through the trouble of setting up a factory based on your domestic products and demands and predicted profitability, only to find that it runs at a loss because your poo poo is being sold at a reduced price for ~*mysterious reasons*~
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May 11, 2013 18:41
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gradenko_2000 posted:What would be a set of goals to set for oneself as the UK in terms of keeping close to or beating historical performance? I get what most other countries need to do (Germany wins WW1/dismantles France/has a colonial empire, Russia industrializes/doesn't go Communist/goes super-Communist, France doesn't fall behind everyone else/dismantles Germany). Retake the rebellious American colonies?  e: Or, why not go reverse-William-The-Conqueror and reclaim your rightful holdings in Normandy? Mister Bates fucked around with this message at 18:49 on May 11, 2013 |
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May 11, 2013 18:45
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YF-23 posted:You can see the top 5 producers of goods. Go to the trade screen, and hover over the tradegood icons (not the price, the actual icons). The tooltip will display the top 5 producers of each.
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May 11, 2013 18:54
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Cumfart Vortex posted:Again: why would you want to manage it when the AI does a good enough job? There is no good incentive to manage your economy yourself, quite frankly, because if we actually turned AI control off it's the equivalent of video game busy work - work that you and I both know you don't actually need to do. That isn't a game. In a game all about the economy, just flat out ignoring the economy should not be the default and best option. It shouldn't even be an option to begin with. Why not just say "okay, Victoria 2's economy isn't all that fun to play with" and just resolve to make a simpler and more fun Victoria 3 (or whatever) economy, instead of arguing this weird line of thought that honestly seems alien to me. Micromanaging your economy is critical if you play a smaller country? I've managed to have a bigger economy than France as Belgium, something the AI could never pull off. You say that it's busywork and that idea is alien to you, the idea of playing a game like V2 and picking a country like France and going "this is easy" is alien to me, of course it is. V2 is all about picking poo poo countries and joining the top 8, and maybe destroying the British Empire in the process. gradenko_2000 posted:As Austria, how am I supposed to knock Prussia out of GP status? I already took all of German minors into my sphere and hit Prussia with a Cut Down to Size and Humiliate CB, but they still have 118 industry points and 190 prestige so they're still #4 overall. Force them to release more nations to split up the industry score even smaller? The only releaseables in Prussia proper are Danzig (irrelevant) and Poland (way too expensive for the relatively mild damage you're doing. As Austria, it's in your best interests to conquer Silesia from Prussia: that's one of their two coal-and-iron industrial heartlands and you're way too far away from the Rhineland to take that. Also, do as previously mentioned and occupy them for a while: 100% war exhaustion= -50% Factory throughput, and they'll be suffering from severe shortages due to the lack of RGO production in the provinces you're occupied. Within a year or a year and a half of 100% occupation, Prussia will almost completely deindustrialize. I actually forget how expensive Acquire Silesia is...if it's cheap enough, you can keep the war going until Prussia hits #9 and then add "Add Prussia to Sphere" and avoid having to wait the five years to sphere Prussia, time when it could get back on its feet.
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May 11, 2013 18:56
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DerLeo posted:Declare war and occupy them for a good while. You loose prestige passively if large parts of your nation are occupied, so if you sit on them for long enough they'll drain out of prestige and that should be enough. Thanks, this worked perfectly and I was able to convert into the South German Federation. Now I just need to fight France and take Alsace-Lorraine 
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May 11, 2013 19:07
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gradenko_2000 posted:Thanks, this worked perfectly and I was able to convert into the South German Federation. Now I just need to fight France and take Alsace-Lorraine Wait, are you playing with a mod (NNM, perhaps)? Because Austria is explicitly not able to form SGF in vanilla HOD (the "Form SGF" decision for Austria merges Bavaria, Baden, and Wurtemburg into a satellited puppet and is a trap because that state will go GP and become independent).
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May 11, 2013 19:21
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Patter Song posted:Wait, are you playing with a mod (NNM, perhaps)? Because Austria is explicitly not able to form SGF in vanilla HOD (the "Form SGF" decision for Austria merges Bavaria, Baden, and Wurtemburg into a satellited puppet and is a trap because that state will go GP and become independent). Yeah, I'm playing NNM, sorry if that wasn't clear. At first the slow speed bothered me, but then I realized it was all good since I was fighting so many wars that needed micro-managing anyway. I just wish they had an Italian decision similar to The Baltic Union and Yugoslavia (formed from Serbia+Bosnia/Herzegovina), because I have all the Italian sub-states sphered/puppeted but then I keep having to fend off Pan-Nationalists.
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May 11, 2013 19:26
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Fister Roboto posted:The problem is that it's frustrating and not fun to go through the trouble of setting up a factory based on your domestic products and demands and predicted profitability, only to find that it runs at a loss because your poo poo is being sold at a reduced price for ~*mysterious reasons*~ I don't see what's mysterious about it. If a good is overproduced the price drops, which seems pretty logical to me. You can see this both on the trade screen, look at prices going up/down and/or the demand/supply tooltips, and on the production screen via the "x goods not sold" tooltip. I can see how it could be frustrating if your whole economy collapsed, but that either means you over-specialised your economy, or the whole world having a recession.
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May 11, 2013 20:01
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I just had a fun bit of the economy - The French are absolutely trouncing the UK in a war, and have occupied all of the British Isles (!). I am playing Imperial Japan (in NNM). Now, because the UK is producing no goods for a time, the world economy absolutely shits itself. None of my pops are getting any of their life needs, and this is probably the same in most uncivs around the world - No exports available. Now, it's completely out of my control, and that make make it unfun for you, but I really like seeing the knock-on effects like that. And I guess it would be mysterious if I didn't know to look for major wars between the GPs for the reason I wasn't importing anything.
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May 11, 2013 20:12
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Do any of you play Vic2 on mac? I'm wondering if it's worth purchasing. My main concern is that, as a port, it'll be just like mac EU3: Looks like poo poo, runs like poo poo, is poo poo.
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May 11, 2013 20:18
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Noreaus posted:I just had a fun bit of the economy - The French are absolutely trouncing the UK in a war, and have occupied all of the British Isles (!). I am playing Imperial Japan (in NNM). Now, because the UK is producing no goods for a time, the world economy absolutely shits itself. None of my pops are getting any of their life needs, and this is probably the same in most uncivs around the world - No exports available. Ok, I admit the fact that it's now a few years later and my POPs are still getting none of their needs, and I can't buy or build anything, is getting a touch irritating. What could be causing it? Has the occupation of the UK (now ended) caused a global economic meltdown?
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May 11, 2013 20:23
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Noreaus posted:Ok, I admit the fact that it's now a few years later and my POPs are still getting none of their needs, and I can't buy or build anything, is getting a touch irritating. What could be causing it? Has the occupation of the UK (now ended) caused a global economic meltdown? What's your prestige like? Countries get "dibs" on goods depending on their prestige rank. There might just not be enough building materials on the market for every country that has more prestige than you.
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May 11, 2013 20:34
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Noreaus posted:Ok, I admit the fact that it's now a few years later and my POPs are still getting none of their needs, and I can't buy or build anything, is getting a touch irritating. What could be causing it? Has the occupation of the UK (now ended) caused a global economic meltdown? Global economic meltdowns can happen in V2, though since sphereing China was taken off the table they're pretty rare unless India is force-released. Are Britain's factories still closed? Is Britain Lassiez-Faire? Also, what year is it?
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May 11, 2013 21:05
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I've formed Germany for the first time! Thanks PatterSong and Der Leo and everyone else for all the advice  As for what's next: I need to catch up on naval techs and build a big fleet so I can challenge French colonial possessions. A second war with France to destroy the rest of their prestige and release Occitania. Russia still gets uppity every once in a while but I'm not sure how I can break them further. I think an invasion of the Ottoman Empire to liberate the rest of Yugoslavia's cores is needed as well. EDIT: Oh god I need to manually build and organize 115 new brigades 
gradenko_2000 fucked around with this message at 00:34 on May 12, 2013 |
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May 12, 2013 00:09
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I'm going to stop using NNM, which is a shame because it seems very good, but its proved very crash-prone. As well as a game-stopping bug in my Japan game, I now get a crash every time I click on the Release Nations tab in my Scandinavian game. Am I the only one getting these problems, or is it really this unstable?
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May 12, 2013 00:44
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Iseeyouseemeseeyou posted:Do any of you play Vic2 on mac? I'm wondering if it's worth purchasing. My main concern is that, as a port, it'll be just like mac EU3: Looks like poo poo, runs like poo poo, is poo poo. It seems like an alright enough port from the limited time I've spent with it. Real problem is that, to my knowledge, Paradox has no intentions of releasing a port of HoD.
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May 12, 2013 00:56
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Since the devs read this thread, I'm going to throw out a Victoria 2 change request: administrative mapmode should color provinces based on the relative administration efficiency of states in your country. There's little difference in terms of color between 70% and 100%, for example, which makes hunting down those last bastions of 5-10% more difficult than it should be. If the average is like 95% and one state is 70%, that 70% state should be as visible as possible, in my opinion. Edit: see screenshot; Alsace-Lorraine is at 70% and everything else is at 100%, but it's pretty difficult to notice the color difference on those three provinces. 
Sheep fucked around with this message at 01:28 on May 12, 2013 |
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May 12, 2013 01:25
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gradenko_2000 posted:What would be a set of goals to set for oneself as the UK in terms of keeping close to or beating historical performance? I get what most other countries need to do (Germany wins WW1/dismantles France/has a colonial empire, Russia industrializes/doesn't go Communist/goes super-Communist, France doesn't fall behind everyone else/dismantles Germany). The UK's greatest failure during this period was being overtaken economically by Germany and the US. Unfortunately, preventing that doesn't really constitute a challenge in V2. Preventing the breakup of the empire isn't actually outside the period- the white colonies started to drift away during WWI, Ireland left in 1921, there was the Indian Mutiny in 1857 and Gandhi was active from 1915 on. By '36 the breakup was basically inevitable. But there's not a lot of challenge in that, either. Hanging on to Canada, Saafrica et al boils down to not releasing them in the first place, and there's not really anything you can do about India. Well. It might be possible to state-ify some of it, if you beeline for education and medicine techs, and you have no other colonies, and you get a lot of Civil Violence events. And if you worked some jiggery-pokery with the Liberate CB you might be able to get them to assimilate. But it doesn't seem likely. Ireland is slightly more interesting. What counts as a "victory" here is open for debate; "Ireland not independent in '36" would be the obvious option, but again that's hardly difficult. Sculpting the population so that they don't want independence is a little harder. Either you've got to keep the Irish happy enough that they don't start an independence movement/it never grows beyond a nuisance/it never evolves into a general uprising, or you've got to make Ireland majority British. Still not a lot of meat there. British foreign policy during this period (and most other periods, actually) revolved around preventing any single power from dominating the continent, and this does actually take some doing. You need to involve yourself in just about every major European war, trying to hinder or contain anyone that looks to be on the way up (Germany, France, rarely Russia) and prop up anyone that looks to be on the way down (Austria, Turkey, sometimes Russia). Apart from that, there's not a lot to do beyond colonise all the places.
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May 12, 2013 01:32
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Sheep posted:Since the devs read this thread, I'm going to throw out a Victoria 2 change request: administrative mapmode should color provinces based on the relative administration efficiency of states in your country. There's little difference in terms of color between 70% and 100%, for example, which makes hunting down those last bastions of 5-10% more difficult than it should be. If the average is like 95% and one state is 70%, that 70% state should be as visible as possible, in my opinion. A fair point, but do you know you don't need every state to be at 100% as long as your overall Admin eff is 100%? You can have some states over and some under, and IIRC there's a line of techs that helps too. Assuming your nation is at 100% overall, per state bureaucrats only matters in a colony you want to make a state,
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May 12, 2013 01:38
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Kersch posted:This is a 5.2 compatability patch for Miscmods .799. You plop it on top of an existing installation of miscmods .799: Installed fresh Miscmods .799 and the compatability patch, and the game crashes to the desktop instantly on mousing over any build manufactory button. I think it might be because the fixes buildings.txt file is calling for trade goods that don't exist, like hemp? Edit: Yeah, putting the standard miscmods building file back in fixes the crash Fintilgin fucked around with this message at 02:00 on May 12, 2013 |
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May 12, 2013 01:57
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Sorry to break up the HoD chat, but can anyone please tell me what I need to change in CK2's files to make it so women can lead armies? I asked a while back in the dedicated CK2 thread when Paradox first changed the code so that was possible but didn't get an answer there. Thanqol's excellent LP has got me back into the game, but all the brilliant military geniuses in my family get born with the wrong set of gonads and I can't use them in vanilla.
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May 12, 2013 02:06
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WeaponGradeSadness posted:Sorry to break up the HoD chat, but can anyone please tell me what I need to change in CK2's files to make it so women can lead armies? I asked a while back in the dedicated CK2 thread when Paradox first changed the code so that was possible but didn't get an answer there. Thanqol's excellent LP has got me back into the game, but all the brilliant military geniuses in my family get born with the wrong set of gonads and I can't use them in vanilla. quote:Go to your CK2 folder, go to Common, then open the job_titles.txt, go to the "Job_Marshal", remove the "is_female = no" line, now women can be general and also have the marshal council position. From the official forums.
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May 12, 2013 02:10
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Fintilgin posted:Installed fresh Miscmods .799 and the compatability patch, and the game crashes to the desktop instantly on mousing over any build manufactory button. Oh hey, I guess at some point I tailored the compatibility patch for the expanded version of Miscmods and then forgot about it. Sorry about that!
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May 12, 2013 02:20
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Qwo posted:From the official forums. Excellent, thank you!
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May 12, 2013 02:22
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Stumiester posted:I'm going to stop using NNM, which is a shame because it seems very good, but its proved very crash-prone. As well as a game-stopping bug in my Japan game, I now get a crash every time I click on the Release Nations tab in my Scandinavian game. Am I the only one getting these problems, or is it really this unstable?
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May 12, 2013 02:43
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I've forced Russia to free Poland. And free Lithuania. And free a chunk of Poland-Lithuania. But I regret the Poland-Lithuania, they have cores goddamned everywhere and won't ally my Germany because of it. Be a little more grateful you jerks.
wukkar fucked around with this message at 03:49 on May 12, 2013 |
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May 12, 2013 03:45
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wukkar posted:I've forced Russia to free Poland. And free Lithuania. And free a chunk of Poland-Lithuania. But I regret the Poland-Lithuania, they have cores goddamned everywhere and won't ally my Germany because of it. Be a little more grateful you jerks. It's honestly kind of frustrating, since now if you have an independent Krakow and Poland, there's no way Krakow will ever join Poland - after all, their cultural union is Poland-Lithuania. 
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May 12, 2013 04:12
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Darkrenown posted:I don't see what's mysterious about it. If a good is overproduced the price drops, which seems pretty logical to me. You can see this both on the trade screen, look at prices going up/down and/or the demand/supply tooltips, and on the production screen via the "x goods not sold" tooltip. I can see how it could be frustrating if your whole economy collapsed, but that either means you over-specialised your economy, or the whole world having a recession. He didn't say he was overproducing it, only that it was selling at a loss for reasons that weren't clear; and very often there isn't a clear link, for me this is especially true in multiplayer where world demand outstrips everything but half your economy needs to be subsidized because of daily price shocks. Best example; I was in a major world war, me (Russia), Austria, and Germany versus everyone else. We could only trade with each other, the whole world's markets were closed to us, our militaries were composed of over 1000 brigades each. Our "expense" economy, and our military was so huge I think we managed to bug it so that we were actually making money off of the tariffs of the stuff we were selling to each other to pay for the war! Our taxes on our economy, paid for the fact that our economy only existed to maintain our war machine, Keynes would've had to change his underwear. By all rights we should've been in massive debt, we were pretty much at or above our army force limits, constructing cruisers like mad, subsidizing our (entire! You HAVE to if its MP) industries and taxing the hell out of everything but we made oodles of cash for no reason out of mid air, no mods. Maybe it makes a weird sort of sense if we pretend the money in our treasuries were actually made up money we printed to pay for the war and inflation was an actual modifier somewhere but it isn't; which would've been unintended fridge brilliance. In MP you can easily see the economy doesn't correspond to logical thinking, so its no surprise if it occasionally happens in SP. quote:Again: why would you want to manage it when the AI does a good enough job? There is no good incentive to manage your economy yourself, quite frankly, because if we actually turned AI control off it's the equivalent of video game busy work - work that you and I both know you don't actually need to do. That isn't a game. In a game all about the economy, just flat out ignoring the economy should not be the default and best option. It shouldn't even be an option to begin with. Why not just say "okay, Victoria 2's economy isn't all that fun to play with" and just resolve to make a simpler and more fun Victoria 3 (or whatever) economy, instead of arguing this weird line of thought that honestly seems alien to me. Well, in multiplayer this is asking to have your nation burn in a fire as everyone else manages to get 100 times your industry score while you just let things handle themselves because micro'ing your economy is automatically better than letting the capitalists do it. There's some circumstances where the Capitalist AI does a more convenient job (first 20-30 years or so) but mid to late game its too slow and inefficient compared to managing your own steel smelting mill-megacomplexes. I like comparing it to managing 5-Year Plans as that's about as far as the logic goes. Victoria is abstracting the era of where the Industrial Revolution and its transformation of how wars are fought (mechanization), and the post-napeoleonic diplomatic scenery. This can't be done without some form of a economic simulator that responds to intuitive thought. Which makes it hilarious when some Randians I know try to play laissez-faire and set taxes to zero, they lose horribly. Raenir Salazar fucked around with this message at 04:46 on May 12, 2013 |
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May 12, 2013 04:38
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Darkrenown posted:A fair point, but do you know you don't need every state to be at 100% as long as your overall Admin eff is 100%? You can have some states over and some under, and IIRC there's a line of techs that helps too. Assuming your nation is at 100% overall, per state bureaucrats only matters in a colony you want to make a state, I figure you'd know best, but I wanted to make sure I've actually been doing poo poo wrong this whole time. And while I'm asking things I've never understood... what exactly are the practical implications of tariffs (besides free money)? I know this has been asked before, but the various answers have never really made all that much sense to me. Speaking of tariffs and nonsense... all the parties in the antebellum US are free trade except the Southern Democrats. In reality, the Civil War almost started over the subject of tariffs, with South Carolina threatening to succeed over onerous tariffs (that the North liked), rather than slavery. The agricultural South liked free trade, and the industrial North liked protectionism. That difference was nearly as contentious as the issue of slavery between the regions. Feels like Victoria has that totally wrong, just slapping free trade on the "liberal" party and protectionism on the "reactionary" party.
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May 12, 2013 05:55
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Eiba posted:Really? I read (in this topic) that a state's admin efficiency affected the rate at which pops were promoted by a national focus, so you should do bureaucrats and then clergy when you're fixing up a new province.  Mousing over the "27.2%" part of that budget screen brings up your country-wide Bureaucrat population. It's the country-wide Bureaucrat population that determines POP promotion rates. A nation with full admin efficiency promotes POPs twice as fast as a country with 0 admin efficiency. It's also this country-wide number that determines tariff and social reform efficiency. This country-wide number is irrespective of the culture of the Bureaucrats. 1.0% of your total population needs to be Bureaucrats (of any culture) to maximize the country-wide figure, plus another 0.2% for every social reform you've passed. State-wide admin efficiency determines crime-fighting efficiency, to remove those effects that reduce RGO output or affect voting blocs, etc., as well as the number being tracked for converting a colony into a full national state. For both effects, the Bureaucrats have to be of accepted/primary culture. As for tariffs, you're making everything more expensive for your POPs to buy, so it's another layer of taxation. Running tariffs too high can cause your POPs to be unable to meet their needs.
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May 12, 2013 06:28
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Eiba posted:Really? I read (in this topic) that a state's admin efficiency affected the rate at which pops were promoted by a national focus, so you should do bureaucrats and then clergy when you're fixing up a new province. Only national admin efficiency affects POP promotion rates. State efficiency does affect crime fighting on the state level though. quote:And while I'm asking things I've never understood... what exactly are the practical implications of tariffs (besides free money)? I know this has been asked before, but the various answers have never really made all that much sense to me. They make imported goods more/less expensive for your POPs, but they don't offer any form of economic protectionism like you'd think they would. POPs and factories are hard-coded to buy domestically first, even if your tariff slider is at -100%.
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May 12, 2013 06:29
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Cool. That bureaucrat stuff will save me a lot of headache I'd been imposing on myself.gradenko_2000 posted:As for tariffs, you're making everything more expensive for your POPs to buy, so it's another layer of taxation. Running tariffs too high can cause your POPs to be unable to meet their needs. Fister Roboto posted:They make imported goods more/less expensive for your POPs, but they don't offer any form of economic protectionism like you'd think they would. POPs and factories are hard-coded to buy domestically first, even if your tariff slider is at -100%. Does it affect factory buying prices at least, so I could effectively subsidize factories input with those conceptually bizarre negative tariffs? Related: Do high tariffs make factories unprofitable if they buy their input from overseas?
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May 12, 2013 06:59
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Eiba posted:So does this mean that as long as my pops are getting their needs met I might as well run at full tariff? 1. Mostly yes, with the caveat that it makes things more expensive for even the rich strata, which we tend to want to tax as little as possible so they can fund projects. 2. I think yes? Not sure.
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May 12, 2013 07:36
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Eiba posted:So does this mean that as long as my pops are getting their needs met I might as well run at full tariff? Sure, but I'm fairly certain that tariffs also also collected from factory purchases, so high tariffs would make factories dependent on inputs that have to be purchased from outside your sphere have higher market spendings, and thus make them less profitable, or it might even make the difference between them running a profit and running a loss. There's a good chance that actually running subsidies instead of tariffs will pay for itself, by reducing or eliminating your industrial subsidies and increasing incomes (and thus your taxes).
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May 12, 2013 08:41
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I am pretty sure I've seen negative tariffs increase my factories profit. Playing a game as France at the moment, I already forced England to release Canada, Australia and Scotland (Why is Ireland 100% warscore and Scotland only 54%?). Next to having most of their colonies. France is one of those countries that can easily ignore the infamy limit and that's fun as hell. My goal in this game has been to gently caress with all the "old" GPs, making sure there's some random fun nations in the top 8. Sweden has a higher Industrial Score than Prussia and the UK is on a slow decline. Always gently caress with the UK, it's the best thing ever.
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May 12, 2013 09:29
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Raenir Salazar posted:He didn't say he was overproducing it, only that it was selling at a loss for reasons that weren't clear; and very often there isn't a clear link, for me this is especially true in multiplayer where world demand outstrips everything but half your economy needs to be subsidized because of daily price shocks. If you follow the chain of replies back it actually does all start with over-production. Tariff talk: Yes, tariffs affect factories too, and negative tariffs count as import subsidies making imported goods cheaper for them. Although as Fister Roboto points out, everyone buys domestically first so if you produce everything locally negative tariffs won't help.
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May 12, 2013 09:53
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Darkrenown posted:Tariff talk: Yes, tariffs affect factories too, and negative tariffs count as import subsidies making imported goods cheaper for them. Although as Fister Roboto points out, everyone buys domestically first so if you produce everything locally negative tariffs won't help. Of course you also need to produce things internally in sufficient quantity for for subsidies to not matter. And chances are you (your factories) are going to be importing some basic stuff like coal unless you have a piss poor demand or a huge internal supply.
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May 12, 2013 10:11
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Yes the way I see it, negative tariffs are gonna make factory input goods cheaper, if you need to import them. Say you're Brazil, you're steel mill is gonna need its iron and coal from somewhere.
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May 12, 2013 13:40
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Darkrenown posted:I don't see what's mysterious about it. If a good is overproduced the price drops, which seems pretty logical to me. You can see this both on the trade screen, look at prices going up/down and/or the demand/supply tooltips, and on the production screen via the "x goods not sold" tooltip. I can see how it could be frustrating if your whole economy collapsed, but that either means you over-specialised your economy, or the whole world having a recession. Maybe if there were some kind of global economic news characterizing trends all over the world things would be a little clearer? I mean it's nice that the newspapers have "Price of furniture falls precipitously!!" but it hardly tells you anything. If I were able to read the in-game equivalent of the Wall Street Journal, things might make a lot more sense. And are recessions even part of the economy? How's that work?
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May 12, 2013 13:49
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