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Sheep posted:since Japanese men are the only people that can actually get into 99% of those places. Thanks for checking up on this, sorry you can't get any.
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May 13, 2013 15:34
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Stringent posted:Thanks for checking up on this, sorry you can't get any. Surely you can do better than that.
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May 13, 2013 15:49
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The weird obsession old racist Japanese dudes have about the sexual habits of European and American men (of any ethnicity) is incredibly creepy. The whole leering, "You like Japanese girls?" thing makes my skin crawl.
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May 13, 2013 20:30
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Sheep posted:The foreign crime rate in Japan, including people covered by SOFA, is a fraction of the Japanese crime rate. I last did the math in 2010, and found that Japanese commit either ~4x or 16x as many crimes as foreigners, depending on if you include visa-related offenses or not. To play devil's advocate, though, isn't that the foreigner crime rate in general? I could see the crimes committed by SOFA personnel only being much higher than the overall foreigner crime rate.
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May 13, 2013 21:24
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LimburgLimbo posted:To play devil's advocate, though, isn't that the foreigner crime rate in general? I could see the crimes committed by SOFA personnel only being much higher than the overall foreigner crime rate. You're right, the numbers I found at the time didn't differentiate, but the crime rate among service personnel in both Korea and Japan is actually really low - it's just that every minor incident gets blown way out of proportion by the press.   From here. "Foreign crime" in Japan hasn't been a thing in decades no matter how you cut it. Edit: here's one on USFK crime. Also note that SOFA number also includes families and associated civilians, so if we're looking at just people serving then it's even lower. Sheep fucked around with this message at 23:19 on May 13, 2013 |
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May 13, 2013 23:13
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I thought the main anger was that they suspects get whisked away to the States where they get the military trial so the anger is more over suspected rapists and/or murderers getting slapped on wrist in their own system with zero input from the locals.
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May 13, 2013 23:18
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Read ROK Drop - that whole "getting off with no punishment" thing is pretty much a myth. I'm sure it does happen, the military being what it is and all, but it's nothing like what people think where you can go gangrape a Filipino hostess and be back in the States in 2 days. Remember those two guys who were on terminal leave last year who thought they'd pull a maneuver like that and wound up in a Japanese prison instead? Edit: Japan's SOFA states that if servicemembers are charged in a Japanese court, they will be turned over. And the US military is really good about giving police and prosecutors, both Korean and Japanese, access to suspects. quote:(f) Members or employees of the United States armed forces, excluding those employees who have only Japanese. nationality, shall not be subject to any proceedings for the enforcement of any judgment given against them in Japan in a matter arising from the performance of their official duties. Sheep fucked around with this message at 23:26 on May 13, 2013 |
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May 13, 2013 23:21
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That's terrifying, the Japanese justice system being what it is. But I guess extraterritoriality is a sore spot for Asia.
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May 14, 2013 02:21
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Bloodnose posted:But I guess extraterritoriality is a sore spot for Asia.
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May 14, 2013 02:30
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More from that delightful chap Hashimoto:"Osaka Mayor: Wartime Sex Slaves Were Necessary posted:TOKYO (AP) — Osaka's outspoken mayor has said the system in which Asian women were forced to become wartime prostitutes before and during World War II was necessary to "maintain discipline" in the Japanese military. It's tough being male, that's for sure!
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May 14, 2013 04:19
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It really worries me to see a right wing nutcase politician as young as he is. I mean, seriously.
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May 14, 2013 04:20
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At least he acknowledges that many women were forced into it against their will.  In all seriousness though, Hashimoto's definitely a looney tune but you would be shocked at how many people would agree with him here in Japan, whether right or left. I've heard many justifications for the comfort women and that's probably the one I hear second-most.
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May 14, 2013 05:23
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Isn't he considered as a new age darling to revitalize Japan? Here's a bbc article "bbc. [url posted:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-22519384#?utm_source=feedly[/url]"]
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May 14, 2013 05:32
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Has anyone mentioned to him that the US didn't use comfort women yet still managed to win the war?
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May 14, 2013 06:21
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Stringent posted:Has anyone mentioned to him that the US didn't use comfort women yet still managed to win the war? Well they did bang a lot of European prostitutes. There's tons of those WWII 'watch out for the clap, boys!' posters out there so something was happening. I don't think the US is any less hypocritical in that regard at least. And in fact that's how a lot of Japanese justify it -- that these girls were prostitutes anyway. And of those who were actual Japanese comfort women, many were legit prostitutes and went perfectly willingly. The problem with comfort women is in assuming that these already-oppressed people are being willing prostitutes, and also the fact that even if US troops slept with prostitutes in their own right, I'm pretty sure they weren't being held on brothels near the front line (it's possible we did? But I sorta doubt that)
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May 14, 2013 06:46
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Reverend Cheddar posted:Well they did bang a lot of European prostitutes. There's tons of those WWII 'watch out for the clap, boys!' posters out there so something was happening. I don't think the US is any less hypocritical in that regard at least. And in fact that's how a lot of Japanese justify it -- that these girls were prostitutes anyway. And of those who were actual Japanese comfort women, many were legit prostitutes and went perfectly willingly. The problem with comfort women is in assuming that these already-oppressed people are being willing prostitutes, and also the fact that even if US troops slept with prostitutes in their own right, I'm pretty sure they weren't being held on brothels near the front line (it's possible we did? But I sorta doubt that) The closest thing to this happening I am aware of was actually organized by the Japanese government when the occupation first started. They expected the American troops to start raping and pillaging when they arrived, so they set up the Recreation and Amusement Association (RAA) and put out newspaper ads that used appeals to self-sacrifice in the name of the nation to convince women to volunteer to work as prostitutes for the Americans. The point of this was to protect upper class Japanese women from being raped. Many of the women weren't experienced prostitutes, and they had to work in abysmal conditions. Dower states in Embracing Defeat that they weren't given any beds or futons to lie on, and they had to service upwards of 20 men a day, sometimes in a building hallway. Some of them either ran away or committed suicide after their first day of work. EDIT: After that of course the prostitution continued - it's estimated roughly half of GI income was spent on prostitution during the occupation - but the working conditions were generally better than what happened with the RAA. MaterialConceptual fucked around with this message at 07:07 on May 14, 2013 |
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May 14, 2013 06:59
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I was thinking more about the comfort women during WWII itself (in which they cited one of the notions you talked about, that those girls weren't pure ladies anyway so go hog wild) but you're right, that was also a thing.
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May 14, 2013 07:12
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Reverend Cheddar posted:At least he acknowledges that many women were forced into it against their will. Just to reiterate a point I posted previously about how poor their education regarding WW2 is becoming: Sheep posted:Just how far to the right Japan has swung was really driven home for me last week when I went into the storeroom and looked at the new history textbooks we have for the 2013-14 school year. I only had about an hour and a half to go through them, but here's some numbers I jotted down: With education like this, we can really only expect those numbers to grow.
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May 14, 2013 07:35
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I was reading about western princesses in Korea the other day, which sounds pretty much like a 'comfort women' system set up for US troops there. But again they were set up by Korea, not the US.
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May 14, 2013 07:49
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I guess the US is just enlisting them now anyhow. (This is a comment on some of the male soldiers' behaviour, not the women enlisting btw.)
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May 14, 2013 07:57
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More Japan-Chinachat!"Japanese tabloids' reports of tourist sex habits 'vent anti-Chinese feeling' posted:Reports about the supposed sexual habits of Chinese tourists and the problems they are causing in Japan's red-light districts have been dismissed as simply another way for the tabloids here to belittle the Chinese.
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May 14, 2013 10:15
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Sometimes I've wondered, do Japanese give more credence to tabloid journalism than Westerners do? It seems like that but it may just be a perception thing on my part, since I read a lot of really lowbrow stuff on Japanese sites compared to the rest of the sites I use.
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May 14, 2013 10:19
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Bloodnose posted:More Japan-Chinachat! Except that attitude from China tourists isn't isolated to Japan and the sex industry. The stereotype of a Chinese tourist is one who is loud, demanding, disrespectful and expects to get away with anything and or use money to change the rules. My friend travels a lot and he told a story of one time in some major city, probably New York walked into a really fancy, extremely busy restaurant to wait for a table, and a group of Chinese showed up and loudly demanded to be seated immediately and simply tried to pay the server to jump the waiting list. It's part China's inherent grey market, where almost everything is controlled by bribes, and that most Chinese people who can take vacations are probably high enough on the economic ladder that they receive special treatment in China and expect it to be the same overseas. Anyone who hasn't read the China megathread won't know it but Hong Kong refers to them as 'mainlanders' and absolutely loving hates them.
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May 14, 2013 11:05
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Well, the weeklies are the only ones who actually do hardcore (snicker) investigative journalism anymore, so while they may focus their attention on filth and scandal, they cover poo poo the dailies won't touch for fear of losing access. The major papers are all huge corporations, so they don't want to go alienating people, which lets the tabloids carve out a niche doing hatchet jobs on people who don't cover their tracks well enough.
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May 14, 2013 11:05
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Bloodnose posted:More Japan-Chinachat! It's funny because this quote "Interviewing sex industry workers, the story claims Chinese men often bring their computers to brothels, show the woman a Japanese adult video and then demand the same sort of service." shows that what they are demanding is actually illegal in Japan, you can do anything but gently caress (the vagina). So I can understand how "cultural differences" can arise.
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May 14, 2013 11:34
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Bloodnose posted:I thought the Japanese sex industry was always off-limits to foreigners.
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May 14, 2013 11:38
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Samurai Sanders posted:It really worries me to see a right wing nutcase politician as young as he is. I mean, seriously. There's a lot of young far-right politicians in European politics, too
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May 14, 2013 12:16
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Wow, just when you think the Japan Restoration Party can't get any dumber, they manage to outdo themselves. http://ajw.asahi.com/article/behind_news/politics/AJ201305170093 Shingo Nishimura posted:'Comfort women' is erroneously translated as 'sex slaves,' which might encourage anti-Japanese riots and conspiracies," he said. "We better fight back by telling them that the words 'comfort women' and 'sex slaves' are completely different and that there are numerous South Korean prostitutes roaming around Japan." mystes fucked around with this message at 20:10 on May 17, 2013 |
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May 17, 2013 20:07
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I guess the part that's common to all politics is this:quote:The uproar over Hashimoto's comments, and Nishimura's predicament, typify the difficulties Japanese politicians can create for themselves when commenting on sensitive topics without considering how those outside their own circles might react. Hey guys, welcome to the information age. What you say in your old boy's club doesn't stay in your old boy's club anymore.
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May 17, 2013 20:26
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Samurai Sanders posted:I guess the part that's common to all politics is this: But but my privilege to be a disgusting old man who needs to die horribly.  Jesus loving poo poo this is some amazing stuff though. At least there's this. Female lawmakers blast Hashimoto, call him the 'shame of Osaka' posted:A multipartisan group of female lawmakers demanded that Osaka Mayor Toru Hashimoto retract his remark about wartime “comfort women,” saying he has embarrassed Japan and shown the world he does not understand human rights. So there's that...  ...not that it's likely to change anything.
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May 17, 2013 20:36
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Osaka mayor accuses U.S. military of using women for sex in postwar Japan Hey, Hashimoto, that's an indictment against America, not a vindication of what you said.
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May 17, 2013 20:42
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Jerry Manderbilt posted:Osaka mayor accuses U.S. military of using women for sex in postwar Japan http://ajw.asahi.com/article/behind_news/politics/AJ201305140086 quote:Toru Hashimoto, co-leader of the Japan Restoration Party, stunned and flustered a U.S. military commander in Okinawa earlier this month with a suggestion that legalized sexual services be used to keep Marines’ sexual appetites under control.
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May 17, 2013 20:48
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Jerry Manderbilt posted:Osaka mayor accuses U.S. military of using women for sex in postwar Japan Also isn't he basically talking about the RAA (and the hosed up attitude that led to its creation) there? 'Cause if I'm understanding his argument correctly then we're kinda' back to the problem of Japan being run by and for terrible old men.
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May 17, 2013 20:56
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mystes posted:Make up your mind, Hashimoto: Haha I think this is the first article written in English since this scandal blew up that accurately translated what Hashimoto said.
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May 17, 2013 21:20
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Ernie Muppari posted:Also isn't he basically talking about the RAA (and the hosed up attitude that led to its creation) there? 'Cause if I'm understanding his argument correctly then we're kinda' back to the problem of Japan being run by and for terrible old men. He was talking about the RAA, S. Korea's Korean War comfort women system, Korean rape camps during the Vietnam War, and "others" that he didn't specify but said happened throughout history or something. And I don't think he's come out with this directly but I think he's basically trying to go down this road with his argument..."dudes are hypocrites, they did the same thing as us, but have done far less than we have to address it." Of course his argument isn't going to get any traction abroad but the right wing in Japan is going to love it.
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May 17, 2013 21:31
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Womacks-JP-23 posted:Of course his argument isn't going to get any traction abroad but the right wing in Japan is going to love it.
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May 17, 2013 22:28
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Womacks-JP-23 posted:And I don't think he's come out with this directly but I think he's basically trying to go down this road with his argument..."dudes are hypocrites, they did the same thing as us, but have done far less than we have to address it." "But they did it too!" stops being a valid excuse when children turn... I dunno, five years old or so? At least now we see at what level Hashimoto's reasoning skills stopped developing. Samurai Sanders posted:Like I think I said before in this thread, the right wing in Japan is the only people this comment was ever intended for, he doesn't know or care who else hears it or what they think. I want to say that he should, that ignoring the wider audience is going to bite him in the rear end, but it may not... The more dumb stuff these guys say, the better, in my opinion. Better that they come out and say what they really think than keep it behind closed doors and do one thing while telling the world something else.
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May 18, 2013 02:05
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Womacks-JP-23 posted:And I don't think he's come out with this directly but I think he's basically trying to go down this road with his argument..."dudes are hypocrites, they did the same thing as us, but have done far less than we have to address it." If you can stand to read the guy's Twitter -- all two hundred or whatever tweets he vomited out about this (and keep in mind you can say a lot more in Japanese with 140 characters than you can in English) -- he actually did say that this was his reasoning. Other countries used prostitutes, don't just harp on Japan!!1 I was mistranslated! They didn't listen to me in context! Foreign media rrrarrblaattghhrhrhffffff. It's not just Japan that likes calling other kettles black; this kind of circular argument gets tossed about in Asia a lot from what I can see as a means to justify their actions. In any stretch of logical reasoning this would be knocked down but we're also dealing with a school system that actively discourages critical thinking.
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May 18, 2013 03:41
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Reverend Cheddar posted:If you can stand to read the guy's Twitter -- all two hundred or whatever tweets he vomited out about this (and keep in mind you can say a lot more in Japanese with 140 characters than you can in English) -- he actually did say that this was his reasoning. Other countries used prostitutes, don't just harp on Japan!!1 I was mistranslated! They didn't listen to me in context! Foreign media rrrarrblaattghhrhrhffffff. Wouldn't the concept of Guilt vs. Shame play into it? Bascially the idea that in the west people are taught that they have an internal set of morals and if they violate it, they did wrong even if no one ever knows about it. In Japan/Asia people are taught that they have to behave as others expect it from them. So if others (the US in this case) apparently don't care about sex slaves (because they use them themselves) then it isn't wrong. That said, I recently learned that the Wehrmacht used forced prostitution in the East and had its own share of massrapes, and there is literally nothing being taught about it. So much for being the shining example of dealing with our past, I guess...
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May 18, 2013 06:21
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mystes posted:Wow, just when you think the Japan Restoration Party can't get any dumber, they manage to outdo themselves. Was Nishimura going to call all the Japanese johns "soldiers" in his racist fantasy?
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May 18, 2013 06:25
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