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Eldjarn posted:I just realized you like the vegetarian map, so you might be a vegetarian - I would highly recommend trying not to be one(if possible) for your stay here. As insensitive as that sounds, I wholeheartedly agree. People without major dietary restrictions who visit me have an amazingly great time trying the food, whereas people who can't eat all meat and/or fish and/or drink alcohol find creative ways to tolerate Korean cuisine, but don't get to experience it fully and have a far, far less fulfilling experience. You'll probably break your edge anyway unless you're good at Korean or have a Korean guide--most restauranteurs don't consider things like ham to be a meat--and beware that even foods that don't look like they contain meat often do (such as most types of kimchi, soups, and kimbap). Otherwise, get used to getting food from Starbucks or western fast food joints that offer vegetarian options. If you're next to Ewha Womans University, the market there is very entertaining and my favourite place for finding Konglish clothes. You'll also be close to Hongdae where pretty well 95% of Korea's live music is centered. http://koreagigguide.com is a helpful resource for shows going on there. You're lucky you didn't end up stuck in Gangnam, anyway.
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May 14, 2013 06:11
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I did stuff like this all the time in school. Props to your kids.
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May 14, 2013 06:22
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Temple food is awesome and vegetarian, and Seoul in general has a pretty huge amount of food that is without meat. If food is just lubricant for surviving socially, then yes vegetarianism is hell, but otherwise you're fine.
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May 14, 2013 06:30
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I'm not going to get in to some argument here because you're all going to think I'm retarded for asking this question in the first place, but the thing I could never answer for myself is WHY I would learn Korean. I could not see a big upside at all to learning the language for the amount of effort required where I had other places in my life where I would rather spend the energy/time. Why do foreigners from first world countries learn a little-used language in a country that has poo poo media to consume and whereby learning the language gives you no new opportunities (usually)? Is it mostly a glut of free time and a "might as well" attitude? I could just never find the motivation. I always say it was a lack of time and energy (which is partially true), but I know if I were even remotely interested in learning Korean, I would know it at a conversational level by now. What do you expect to accomplish by knowing Korean? Why is it enjoyable to you to learn it? etc. I suppose what I'm saying here is, "because you get to talk to Koreans!" and "it shows respect for the culture/country" are really lovely answers when you're trying to motivate yourself. It may be true, but that doesn't work for me.
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May 14, 2013 07:49
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For me it was being able to do things without having to have someone hold my hand. That, and being able to better communicate with the people around me all the time. It wasn't really fun for me to be sitting in a room full of people talking and having no idea what was going on.
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May 14, 2013 07:55
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TreFitty posted:I'm not going to get in to some argument here because you're all going to think I'm retarded for asking this question in the first place, but the thing I could never answer for myself is WHY I would learn Korean. I could not see a big upside at all to learning the language for the amount of effort required where I had other places in my life where I would rather spend the energy/time. Why do foreigners from first world countries learn a little-used language in a country that has poo poo media to consume and whereby learning the language gives you no new opportunities (usually)? The average American spend something north of 3 hours watching TV. Do you think that's a better outlet for ones time? Some people like some things and some people like others. Maybe language learning isn't for you if you can't motivate yourself to try to learn the language of your country of residence.
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May 14, 2013 07:56
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Even if there were zero benefit (there certainly isn't) learning a language is a fun and cool thing to do and those are pretty legit reasons for doing almost anything in my opinion. also re: meat talk, I have recently been taking advantage of living near a handful of butchers and have never been eating better in Korea. Buy some delicious Korean beef today! pricey though.
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May 14, 2013 07:58
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The Gay Bean posted:The average American spend something north of 3 hours watching TV. Do you think that's a better outlet for ones time? In any case, I appreciate the honest answers. I may now be out of the woods yet even though I'll be on a plane within a month or two. edit: may NOT be out of the woods. I still need to learn Korean when I get to America if I'm to marry the girl I've been dating for over 3 years now. TreFitty fucked around with this message at 08:04 on May 14, 2013 |
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May 14, 2013 07:59
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TreFitty posted:Understood - so I'll take it as "I find it interesting". For me, I'd rather read a book on programming or whatever. Besides that, I'm headed home and could already take care of what I needed 95% of the time (I know likely multiple thousands of words - it's not like I can't ask and understand simple questions). The more I learned, though, the less motivated I became, actually. I realized how much effort it took me to get just an inch ahead, looked at my ability as a whole, and said, "gently caress this poo poo." Yeah, I didn't mean to be snarky at all. It's just not for everyone.
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May 14, 2013 08:02
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I finished level 2 at Yonsei, and while I'd really like to go a little farther (the next course finally introduces 반말), I don't know if it's worth the investment of most of my free time for the next few years to become fluent. I was talking with the girl who had my job before me, and she actually got a lot more work, had a lot more arguments, and quit a lot earlier simply because she was better able to communicate with her supervisors (though why anyone thought it was a good idea to put Koreans who know zero foreign languages in charge of foreign media relations is beyond all of us). For me, learning Korean would mainly be done to get the few irritating fluent foreigners to stop nagging me on it, and also possibly to expand the dating pool, neither factor which really heavily motivates me. That said, anyone who wants to stay here longer than a year should at the very least learn how to read Hangeul. It doesn't take a lot of effort.
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May 14, 2013 08:05
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terivinix posted:That said, anyone who wants to stay here longer than a year should at the very least learn how to read Hangeul. It doesn't take a lot of effort. Heck, I've recommended to my coworkers to learn it on the flight over. It's more than possible and what else do you do on a boring Pacific flight?
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May 14, 2013 08:13
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A bit more to add. It's worth noting that you can new opportunities from learning Korean. Your situation might not have worked out, and even without knowing you I can say that there's a strong chance it was through little to no fault of yours. However, don't make the mistake to generalize and say that English teaching is the only thing to do here. I'm getting paid about 2/3 of what an English teacher makes to do research in my field and get a masters, and that wouldn't have happened if I couldn't speak Korean to a certain degree. edit: I don't plan to work here for the rest of my life, in general, because gently caress Korean work culture.
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May 14, 2013 08:21
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The Gay Bean posted:edit: I don't plan to work here for the rest of my life, in general, because gently caress Korean work culture.
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May 14, 2013 08:29
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I'm learning it because I've always found language learning fun. I honestly don't care about the opportunities or usefulness of the language, I simply find it interesting. Terivinix: If you do find the time and energy to do level 3, I can tell you that is the level most people(including me) suddenly started to feel confident in most conversations. You are not gonna be anywhere near fluency, but you will have learned all the basic grammar constructs needed to deduce the meaning of almost anything you read or hear. The grammar in level 4 and up at Yonsei is mostly just advanced constructions combining the level 1,2 and 3 conjugations in different ways.
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May 14, 2013 08:34
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TreFitty posted:and here we have why I'm leaving: I currently get about double what I did in EPIK (all things considered like bonuses, housing, etc. - although my first year at this job I was about even and working much harder), but if I wanted another job I'd have to live in Seoul (gently caress that) and work like a Korean and speak Korean. Why would I ever do that? Not only that, but there are better opportunities back in America, not just sidegrades or downgrades. What is your plan on learning Korean since you are going back to the States soon?
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May 14, 2013 08:34
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One of my sixth graders is like, passively bullying me. He keeps sneaking up behind me when I'm wearing headphones and spooking me. He knows by my reactions that I want to backhand him across the room and he knows I can't. Giggling little fucker.
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May 14, 2013 08:58
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Dead Man Posting posted:What is your plan on learning Korean since you are going back to the States soon? edit: oh, and maybe try to take a local Korean class. Seattle seems to have a huge asian population.
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May 14, 2013 09:12
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Toussaint Louverture posted:... How the hell do you get the "g" sound out of face? I swear they were loving with me. If they are anything like a lot of the students I have had, it's because they are trying to learn spelling my remembering what a word looks like. It's gotten a lot better since I first came to Korea, but public school curricula still do a crap job of teaching phonics.
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May 14, 2013 10:16
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joedevola posted:One of my sixth graders is like, passively bullying me. He keeps sneaking up behind me when I'm wearing headphones and spooking me. Make his life miserable in class until he stops. Or shame him in front of his homeroom teacher. You can't backhand him but you can make his life hard if he doesn't stop loving with you. Yeah, it's kind of petty but so is bugging people for fun.
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May 14, 2013 10:23
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What is a consignee and what do I do with it for iherb? Why is it asking me for one?
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May 14, 2013 10:46
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TreFitty posted:I'm not going to get in to some argument here because you're all going to think I'm retarded for asking this question in the first place, but the thing I could never answer for myself is WHY I would learn Korean. I could not see a big upside at all to learning the language for the amount of effort required where I had other places in my life where I would rather spend the energy/time. Why do foreigners from first world countries learn a little-used language in a country that has poo poo media to consume and whereby learning the language gives you no new opportunities (usually)? You are right in principle but it really depends alot on your personal situation. For instance, when I studied at Kookmin I was friends with this guy who was doing an internship in a law office. Obviously, he worked long hours and he was only there for a total of six months. He could order food but beyond that he had no real reason to study Korean. On the other hand, I now work with a guy who taught in Korea for four years before arriving in China and he doesn't speak a word of it. Obviously working a fulltime job does cut into study time (an issue I've had here in China) but even than, its certainly doable. I guess the question you need to ask yourself is, do you want to spend a large portion of your life with your social interactions strait-jacketed? Are you content limiting yourself to social settings where English is spoken? Even more importantly, are you willing to keep yourself in a bubble of mostly foreigners? Self-hating Waygooks ITT. If you are, that's ok, but I'd suggest considering other options. Its my personal theory that these groups are hotbeds of drama due to the fact that people are essentially stuck with each other. My first few months in Japan were pretty lackluster until my skill was up to the point I could hold an engaging conversation. For me personally, its a mix of things. I found after I started studying Latin in HS that learning languages was really interesting for me. It has legit become a hobby of mine (although I am in no way one of those people who are gifted at it) and I find it really enjoyable. I ended up first going to Korea on a summer semester program because I didn't feel like sitting around my folk's place all summer before courses in Japan began, as well as excess scholarship money which couldn't be used for a fall/spring program. It was right next door to Japan so I figured I'd go for it. I found I really enjoyed it, the food was great, I met some cool people and overall it seemed like a pretty neat place to live. It was so good when my program in Japan was finished I went back to the same school over the next summer (turned out to be a godsend, as those courses let me graduate a semester earlier and save myself 11K). Again it was an excellent experience. My third time was almost two years later, I worked at a company in rural Japan over the year doing translation and I was pretty wiped Plus my family had some issues and couldn't afford for me to go back to University so I took Kookmin's intensive course for a semester before I returned to the states. Again, had an awesome time and in just one semester everyone's progress was very obvious. Now I'm coming back again in June mainly for two reasons. First, I'm tired of working for a while and would really like a slightly less demanding lifestyle, and second I am angling for a more long-term translation-gig in Japan, but I feel that two languages just isn't going to cut it. I get if you've worked at learning before and felt like you weren't making any progress, but I can tell you as someone who has no natural talent for languages whatsoever that its entirely doable, it just takes time. Believe me I know how that feels. I studied Japanese for well over a year before I felt any confidence whatsoever in the language. Sorry for the  , but thats just my take.
EasternBronze fucked around with this message at 03:08 on May 15, 2013 |
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May 14, 2013 12:35
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Is there a Gumi goon here still? Going back to my old stomping grounds this weekend.
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May 14, 2013 13:15
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TreFitty, I think when the time comes in Seattle to learn Korean, you'll have a new excuse to give then. It'd be super cool if I'm wrong.
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May 14, 2013 13:57
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I'd also say that learning any language naturally helps you to understand your own language and others - It's one of those things that helps you to understand a vast variety of other things in the world, and allows you to build upon that to really develop your brain. I mean, you could learn Esperanto, but it wouldnt just teach you Esperanto. If you see 
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May 14, 2013 14:47
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I need to check out the Foreign Service page and see how difficult the language requirements are, if I end up stagnating in Korea for another year, it might be worth it to at least get enough to pass their language test. There was a minor bit of 'scandal' last year with the British one when it was revealed how little you had to score to qualify for Mandarin. I am getting to that point where my desire to do things by myself is running strongly against my ability to communicate, I somehow managed to do it in Suwon where I could go a long time without hearing any English outside of school. My Korean is poo poo, but I can still function in it for the things I need, but now I'm running into things like booking spaces for events and dealing with tax rules and my Korean is no where near that level and realistically, it probably won't be for another year, but I might as well give a short course a try to see what it is like. Even though I have no time for it and I'll probably not renew a course. I remember the Sinica podcast where they were talking about learning Chinese in China and like TreFitty said it depends on how you interact with your neighborhood. They used Beijing as a base and came to the conclusion that if your goal is IT/Business advancement then your time is better spent learning a program language since most people in a hiring position will have better English than your Chinese and your Chinese will not be good enough on a technical level, almost ever. Learn enough to order and give directions, but intensive study beyond that would be useless for that class of person. AmbientParadox posted:TreFitty, I think when the time comes in Seattle to learn Korean, you'll have a new excuse to give then. It'd be super cool if I'm wrong. EasternBronze posted:... Now I'm coming back again in June mainly for two reasons. ...
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May 14, 2013 15:00
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I have no idea if I'll succeed at studying Korean in Seattle or not. I'd like to, but I don't know what I'll be like in America anymore. I don't know what grown-up TreFitty with a fiancee living abroad after living Korea for 5 years is like, nor what my responsibilities will be like, what my daily life looks like, etc.
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May 14, 2013 16:49
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EasternBronze posted:Again, had an awesome time and in just one semester everyone's progress was very obvious. Now I'm coming back again in June mainly for two reasons. When are you leaving the Southern China? Man We ought to hang out more. I was in guangzhou for the last 2 weekends and just couldn't find your email or pm  I will send you off before you arrive in the arms of Kant and Lummox 
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May 14, 2013 17:25
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Yay some goons went to the last one last weekend. Tons of fun! Some lovely pics I took (had no good equipment sorry ): https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.157188594454130.1073741830.140752282764428&type=1People should come out to the next one in June! That or stop by and have a rooftop dinner June 1st in Itaewon with some Frenchies and a bunch of others. Not forcing people to go but I'll also DJ an event that night as well as I made the poster for that too: 
aeglus fucked around with this message at 19:20 on May 14, 2013 |
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May 14, 2013 19:16
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TreFitty posted:edit: may NOT be out of the woods. I still need to learn Korean when I get to America if I'm to marry the girl I've been dating for over 3 years now. I've known a whole lotta people who learned a language to get into new and exciting pants. My ol' horn dog buddy was like the only other non-gyopo GI in my warehouse who had a grasp on korean language. A couple other folks are fluent in Tagalog because they love their wife and that seems like a cool reason. I took the effort to learn because I wanted to impress my other mil folks and the locals alike. poo poo was a cool self esteem boost. It's also been like a life goal to re-enact that scene from 13th Warrior.
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May 14, 2013 23:24
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KirbyKhan posted:It's also been like a life goal to re-enact that scene from 13th Warrior. That is rather simple to be honest, just go to Norway. Whenever a foreigner is around in Norway people slowly transition into English in the exact same way.
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May 15, 2013 00:18
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caberham posted:When are you leaving the Southern China? Man We ought to hang out more. I was in guangzhou for the last 2 weekends and just couldn't find your email or pm Dude remember, you are my steam friend!
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May 15, 2013 00:36
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I'm just looking to learn because I'm tired of going to dinners with the lady's friends and being the American monkey who doesn't understand anything and has to hope there's a TV on somewhere to watch while everyone else talks. Also, looks like after a year+ of being married I'm finally going to meet the family in Jeju this weekend, so, this should be entertaining. I'll bring back some penis keychains or something.
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May 15, 2013 01:01
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One advantage of learning Korean is it lets you learn the grammar roughly shared by other Asian languages in an environment where I can practice it with native speakers daily. So then if I pick up a somewhat more useful language like Japanese later, I won't have my brain broken by the grammar so much and can focus on memorizing vocab. But the biggest reason is it's fun.
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May 15, 2013 02:02
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I think we might know tons of the same people.
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May 15, 2013 02:10
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Bugblatter posted:One advantage of learning Korean is it lets you learn the grammar roughly shared by other Asian languages Well, Japanese, Turkish, Hungarian, and Finnish. Chinese grammar is much more similar to English than it is Korean, though Chinese grammar is also really simple in general so it's not a big deal. It's pronunciation/memorization at are the problem there. The reason I'm trying to learn hanja is so I can keep studying Korean while also being able to read Japanese and Chinese, though. I learned German to a reasonable level of fluency and it hasn't helped much with other languages. I think it's too similar to English. Or maybe it has helped and I just have no way of judging that myself since I can't say what it would be like if I never had learned it.
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May 15, 2013 02:21
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Eldjarn posted:Terivinix: If you do find the time and energy to do level 3, I can tell you that is the level most people(including me) suddenly started to feel confident in most conversations. You are not gonna be anywhere near fluency, but you will have learned all the basic grammar constructs needed to deduce the meaning of almost anything you read or hear. The grammar in level 4 and up at Yonsei is mostly just advanced constructions combining the level 1,2 and 3 conjugations in different ways. Thanks, that was what I inferred. It pisses me off that they keep Banmal hidden until the intermediate level, forcing beginners to learn some of the trickiest verb endings and then just unlearn them later. It means that as long as I've been studying, I haven't learned enough to communicate with my friends. I had a Korean tutor for a while who kept trying to correct my verb endings, and I had to explain to her that this is the level we're learning at and I should really avoid the more useful verb endings for now. It really seems to me like Koreans don't know the best ways to teach their own language.
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May 15, 2013 03:45
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KirbyKhan posted:I've known a whole lotta people who learned a language to get into new and exciting pants. My ol' horn dog buddy was like the only other non-gyopo GI in my warehouse who had a grasp on korean language. A couple other folks are fluent in Tagalog because they love their wife and that seems like a cool reason. I took the effort to learn because I wanted to impress my other mil folks and the locals alike. poo poo was a cool self esteem boost. If that scene was in Korea he would have said "My Mother was a pure woman from a noble family. And I, at least, know who my father is." And the men would look at each other for a minute and then continue talking to each other because foreigners don't speak Korean.  I'm not being entirely serious.
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May 15, 2013 04:29
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terivinix posted:Thanks, that was what I inferred. The reason for this is that verb endings should not be hindering you in any way as long as you learn everything else properly. They keep students on the polite stuff to hammer in how important it is to speak that way to strangers. If you have done level 2 you have also actually learned banmal, you just don't realize it: Drop the 요 from -어/아/여요 endings and you have banmal for the most part. -는/ㄴ다고/다고-(and many many others) clausal connectors are also basically just banmal(the written, default kind that you find in almost every book and you are supposed to write the story portion of exams with), but with -고 added for the connective part. This is all taught in level 2 and your teacher probably explained it. If I remember correctly, it was even on the last exam. The point I'm trying to make though is that endings don't matter when you learn the language. As long as you get the fundamentals down properly you can export it to the new verb endings as they are covered. Looking at my level 3 book though, the 'banmal' grammar they cover there is in 2 texts only. That means 1 day out of 50 covering this new banmal - the reason for this being that it's actually ridiculously easy. This is also part of the reason why I find it ridiculous to read all the reasons for "why Korean is hard" around the net. They usually make two big points: 1. "Korean is hard because it has a different word order compared to English!" - Anyone who still has issues with word order in Korean after the first two weeks is never ever going to learn Korean. 2. "Korean is hard because it has like a bajillion different politeness level conjugations!" - This is slightly more valid, but not because of the actual conjugations. Knowing when to use the different endings is easy enough(except with younger kids/adolescents) - the conjugations are all based on the person you are speaking to(해라체, 하게체, 하오체, 합쇼체, 해체-반말, 해요체). When you have learned one, learning the next is infinitely easier - less than 1 hour probably. Subject/Object/Target based honorifics(으시 additions, and special suffixes and verbs like -께, 드리다 etc.) are harder to remember for most foreigners, but this all comes with practice. I went off on a tangent there, but really - if you know all the polite endings you can learn banmal in less than 1 hour on your own.
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May 15, 2013 05:51
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terivinix posted:Thanks, that was what I inferred. Efl has a bunch of different schools of learning as well. What works for some people won't work for others. Also I'm kind of glad they hold of the banmal. I'm mildly annoyed that at entry levels kids are taught contractions, but don't know what they're contracting.
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May 15, 2013 05:56
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TreFitty posted:I'm not going to get in to some argument here because you're all going to think I'm retarded for asking this question in the first place, but the thing I could never answer for myself is WHY I would learn Korean. I could not see a big upside at all to learning the language for the amount of effort required where I had other places in my life where I would rather spend the energy/time. Why do foreigners from first world countries learn a little-used language in a country that has poo poo media to consume and whereby learning the language gives you no new opportunities (usually)? For me, I want to know Korean because I am living here long-term and because the husband speaks Korean. If I could just get it into my brain and figure it out, then we would be able to have conversations that other people wouldn't understand (like being around family in the States).
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May 15, 2013 06:03
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