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api call girl posted:e: too flippant and off-point Yeah, I'm not sure that comparing real-world ethnic groups to fictional alien planets is the coolest analogy.
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May 16, 2013 19:06
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smashthedean posted:Saw the movie last night and enjoyed it. I'd really like to see some more even space battles in these new Trek movies rather than just the Enterprise versus a giant gently caress off supership all the time though. I'm hoping the next movie with the hinted Klingon War theme will give us some straight fights. I'm also hoping we get a really badass Klingon villain and maybe some Romulans making an appearance. Oh I think this movie was pretty much a setup for exactly that situation. I'm not a huge Abrams hater but I think the studios left him in charge to kick-start the new movies and it wouldn't surprise me to see them handing off to a new writer a la Iron Man 3. I just wish they'd bring in Q or Data. Those were my favourites.
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May 16, 2013 19:06
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DFu4ever posted:Not entirely. Sulu is Japanese, but is played by a Korean. I could be wrong but I don't think Sulu's ethnicity has ever been specifically stated. Sulu isn't even a Japanese name, or at least it isn't here in the 21st century. Roddenberry supposedly intended it as a reference to the Sulu Sea to avoid identifying the character as any specific nationality.
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May 16, 2013 19:12
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ComposerGuy posted:I cannot understand this thought process at all. Is there some group of people on this planet that feels like the Star Wars franchise can get worse than the Prequels? counterpoint: fan-films.
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May 16, 2013 19:14
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Bolian Blues posted:I could be wrong but I don't think Sulu's ethnicity has ever been specifically stated. Sulu isn't even a Japanese name, or at least it isn't here in the 21st century. Roddenberry supposedly intended it as a reference to the Sulu Sea to avoid identifying the character as any specific nationality. I'm pretty sure Hikaru, his first name, is a Japanese name.
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May 16, 2013 19:14
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DFu4ever posted:I'm pretty sure Hikaru, his first name, is a Japanese name. Yeah. The character was created to represent all of Asia (thus, Sulu, named after the sea), but Hikaru is a Japanese name made up of Japanese phonetics. Still, though, there's no reason people can't have first names from other places - so I guess the only issue is a Korean American actor getting more work than a Japanese American actor (and they do, in general, as Koreans often play Japanese people (even though they don't really look anything like what a native of Japan looks like)).
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May 16, 2013 19:17
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I think it would be awesome if the next film had them finding Data's head in San Francisco, who could help with the apparent fight against the Klingons due to his advanced technical knowledge.
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May 16, 2013 19:22
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Ooooo. Who do they cast as Data? Let's go with Terry Crews. He can even move like one. This is an action universe after all.
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May 16, 2013 19:24
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They could open a casting call to anyone who's got argyria.
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May 16, 2013 19:26
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Darko posted:Yeah. Not to mention that Hikaru was only established as his first name in Star Trek VI, the last movie with the original cast. Until that point there was nothing to identify him as being Japanese other than him being played by a Japanese actor (maybe there's some lines in TOS or TAS that reference it, but I don't remember any). So pretty much everything iconic about the character existed before we learnt anything about him that suggested Japanese identity.
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May 16, 2013 19:27
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In this diverse world there's nothing to stop a guy being called Khan Singh having an English accent and being white either, tbf. There's so much breeding between races that in 300yrs we're all gonna be one skin colour (I guess some kind of brown-ish) with indistinguishable accents, I reckon. In my second line seems racist then I apologize - it's just speculation that we'll homogenize as we become a more cohesive world nation.
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May 16, 2013 19:32
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As long as everyone is pretty and can get laid. And achieve their dreams like a beautiful butterfly...like kids who want to be cats when they get older...
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May 16, 2013 19:37
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WastedJoker posted:In this diverse world there's nothing to stop a guy being called Khan Singh having an English accent and being white either, tbf. We already are, via DNA, at least. It's just going to take a bit more breeding to change our colors and facial shapes to be more homogeneous because the extreme ends of looks tend to stay at the fringes more when they reproduce for various reasons. For instance, the average American "black" (and I hate those terms) person has something like 30% traced European, which is why, on average, they look so much different than central-western African natives. One thing to remember was that the OS of Star Trek was extremely progressive for its time. The networks wouldn't allow Kirk to be in a relationship with Uhuru and have kids with her (outside of maybe alternate universe stuff), but even a mind-controlled kiss was ridiculously pushing the boundaries at the time. "The perfect superbeing" wouldn't be Mandingo Mandela, but you could make him the "visually closest" "non-white."
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May 16, 2013 19:43
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Saw this last night. I thought most of the homages were pretty good, except for one notable one that felt out of place: I get what they were trying for with Spock doing the 'KHAAAAAAAN' bit, but I think it would have come across better if he hadn't let it rip right at the door - it just felt like it was strong-armed in there for nostalgia. Now, instead if he had started silently to lose his poo poo when Kirk died, then we have the scene where they locate Khan and Spock beams down, looks over and spots him, then goes 'KHAAAAAAN!' and the ensuing chase/fight is just him cutting loving loose, no Vulcan logic or control, just augmented human versus stronger-than-human half-alien. Yeah, where's my money Abrams?
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May 16, 2013 19:55
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Gatts posted:As long as everyone is pretty and can get laid. And achieve their dreams like a beautiful butterfly...like kids who want to be cats when they get older... Darko posted:For instance, the average American "black" (and I hate those terms)
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May 16, 2013 19:59
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Cingulate posted:I loved the chubby, black, bald woman on the bridge. Just loved her. Perhaps in some Trek future all the regular looking people including fat people, are culled to make the dilithium crystals that fuel the ships.
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May 16, 2013 20:02
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Boatswain posted:^^^ I guess it's hard to watch this movie if you had to high expectations? I think they did everything you've come to expect in movies out of Hollywood and they did it well in addition. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qORYO0atB6g&t=200s
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May 16, 2013 20:04
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Cingulate posted:I loved the chubby, black, bald woman on the bridge. Just loved her. In casual conversation, I'll reference black and white and Asian or whatever because people get a general idea of what is referred to, but those terms are really stupid and shouldn't be taken seriously (like some people do). They come from a mix of colonization, The Bible (aligning things according to three races which all came from Noah's three sons), and bunk 19th century science, and basically only exist to categorize and segregate between large swaths of people. Race has been debunked - science uses ethnicity now, which is much more specific - and, even still, it's used as vaguely as possible. This is the example I typically use: Three friends of mine - who would be cast in extras casting as black, Asian (since we don't say "yellow" any more), and white/hispanic:  And that's how they are viewed by the American public en-large. However, they're all "Asian," because they're all Filipino. Yet, someone from Aboriginal-Asian + Spanish + chinese decent like the "darker" Filipinos are categorized as the same group as people from the middle of South America, who are categorized as the same group of people who come from West Africa. It's just silly. /derail
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May 16, 2013 20:26
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Gatts posted:Ooooo. Who do they cast as Data? Let's go with Terry Crews. He can even move like one. This is an action universe after all. Cumberhatch would have made an excellent Data. Too late now. EDIT: Guinan must be aware of the time shift, right? As soon as the Kelvin was taken down? monster on a stick fucked around with this message at 20:35 on May 16, 2013 |
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May 16, 2013 20:28
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monster on a stick posted:EDIT: Guinan must be aware of the time shift, right? As soon as the Kelvin was taken down? She probably got super weirded out when she turned into a white woman.
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May 16, 2013 21:07
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She might feel something is off, or she developed that ability due to her time near the Nexus.
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May 16, 2013 21:10
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bobkatt013 posted:She might feel something is off, or she developed that ability due to her time near the Nexus. I always thought that was her (retconned) deal? That being in the Nexus, then leaving it, left her 'connected' to all the other versions of her who had been in there, and that explained her weird intuition stuff. Although that doesn't explain why Soren didn't have something similar going on.
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May 16, 2013 21:21
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WarLocke posted:I always thought that was her (retconned) deal? That being in the Nexus, then leaving it, left her 'connected' to all the other versions of her who had been in there, and that explained her weird intuition stuff. Yes so at this point she would not know anything is off since it would be years before the Borg attack and Kirks death. Soran could have it, and that is one of the reasons he went crazy. Still I forget do they ever explain why she was on Earth hanging with Mark Twain?
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May 16, 2013 21:24
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bobkatt013 posted:Still I forget do they ever explain why she was on Earth hanging with Mark Twain? IIRC that was before Generations when her character was just a nebulous incredibly knowledgable alien who may or may not have been around for centuries and/or is immortal *wink wink*. Remember how Q reacted to her?
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May 16, 2013 21:30
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I watched this at a midnight showing last night, and while I think it was a decent hollywood film, and a good addition to the JJ Trek universe, after thinking about it, I wasn't really happy with the movie. My biggest problem is that the whole thing is cheap. There are too many cheap escapes. Too often, our characters are shown what consequences would look like, but they eventually get away scott-free. Take the whole opening sequence and the way it invokes the prime directive and the fundamental differences of command between Spock and Kirk. At first I was a little upset, thinking this would be just another dumb action sequence in the Star Trek movie universe, a needless run on screen time. But my fears were assuaged when Kirk was reprimanded for blatantly ignoring the prime directive. Ultimately, the pay off from that opening sequence was Pike dressing Kirk down, and Kirk defending his heroic view of himself. That was satisfying. And then came the hammer, Kirk losing command of the Enterprise. You're damned right he should lose the flagship! Kirk thinks of himself as above the chain of command (just look at the first movie), exempt from the rules, god's own gift to humanity. Our captain needs to learn some humility. And what better way for that to happen than to be forced to step out of the command chair and become the ship's first officer? But, of course, then Pike dies, Kirk is reinstated, and Spock goes right back with him. Kirk suffers no consequences for his actions. Pike, his father figure, has died, but this isn't Kirk's fault; Pike was killed by a renegade Starfleet officer. Next, by bringing the torpedoes onboard, Kirk begins down that slippery slope into all out war with the Klingons. In protest, Scotty quits. Spock questions Kirk at every opportunity. It looks for a moment like our captain is losing control of his ship and crew. But of course, Scotty eventually returns to save the day, and any problems the Enterprise faces that might have been attributed to flying without her chief engineer are firmly placed in the realm of plot-contrivance when Admiral Marcus returns to take the blame. Finally there is Kirk's death. While it was wonderfully filmed - a beautiful, poignant moment of growth and loss for our characters - the power of the moment is lost as soon as we return to Bones, his tribble, and Khan's superblood. Every sacrifice Kirk makes - from abandoning the ideals of Starfleet in order to save his friend, to betraying the trust of his crew for the sake of revenge, to ultimately laying down his life for others - is robbed of significance and impact by the cowardice of the filmakers. In this version of Star Trek there are no consequences for our actions. Larger-than-life heroes truly are more important than the rules that govern the Federation. The chaos and destruction caused by Khan crashing into San Francisco is ignored in favor of a shallow foot-chase action scene. The lives lost are brushed away when our intrepid heroes return on screen one year later to forgive themselves, sing their own accolades, and jet off into space. I simply can't enjoy a movie that abandons its own sense of consequence so cheaply.
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May 16, 2013 21:32
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WarLocke posted:IIRC that was before Generations when her character was just a nebulous incredibly knowledgable alien who may or may not have been around for centuries and/or is immortal *wink wink*. Yep called her an imp and worse then him. Also I know and just making fun of how everything that happened on the show was ignored 90% of the time. Like in First Contact where they act this is the first time Picard faced the Borg since Best in Both World and still had serious PTSD ignoring Family and Hugh.
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May 16, 2013 21:32
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Medoken posted:I watched this at a midnight showing last night, and while I think it was a decent hollywood film, and a good addition to the JJ Trek universe, after thinking about it, I wasn't really happy with the movie. What would you have had happen after these key events?
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May 16, 2013 21:37
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Medoken posted:I simply can't enjoy a movie that abandons its own sense of consequence so cheaply. I can't agree with all of your post. Pike was in the conference room because Kirk screwed up and got his ship taken away. Kirk is responsible for him being there in the first place, and while maybe he's not technically responsible for Pike dying (since Khan pulled the trigger) it's obviously still a loss and blow to him. The other thing, yeah I agree. But I can't see how they did the movie they did and not have to resort to something like that at the end.
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May 16, 2013 21:39
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Medoken posted:I watched this at a midnight showing last night, and while I think it was a decent hollywood film, and a good addition to the JJ Trek universe, after thinking about it, I wasn't really happy with the movie. Hold on... I thought Scotty quit because he didn't know what was in the torpedoes and whether they were safe to fire or not; he wanted to open one up to make sure it wouldn't threaten the Enterprise. Am I misremembering?
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May 16, 2013 21:51
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monster on a stick posted:Hold on... I thought Scotty quit because he didn't know what was in the torpedoes and whether they were safe to fire or not; he wanted to open one up to make sure it wouldn't threaten the Enterprise. Am I misremembering? Yes, he specifically mentions being unhappy with the mission of vengeance, pointing out that starfleet should not be a military organisation.
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May 16, 2013 22:01
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monster on a stick posted:Hold on... I thought Scotty quit because he didn't know what was in the torpedoes and whether they were safe to fire or not; he wanted to open one up to make sure it wouldn't threaten the Enterprise. Am I misremembering? That was his stated complaint; but looked at another way it's just an excuse for him to try to hit the brakes before Kirk goes off to start a war with the Klingons.
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May 16, 2013 22:01
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Medoken posted:I simply can't enjoy a movie that abandons its own sense of consequence so cheaply. Kirk died with not a hope in hell of being revived, at least from his perspective. His actions in the movie drove his character arc, which ended with him sacrificing himself for his crew. Him being revived doesn't lessen what the sacrifice meant to him and the characters around him, and the respect he gains from the act could be used for future story fodder. Keeping him dead is just another path the writers could have taken, but it isn't inherently superior by any means. WarLocke posted:That was his stated complaint; but looked at another way it's just an excuse for him to try to hit the brakes before Kirk goes off to start a war with the Klingons. Yeah, it was a legitimate complaint tied to a much much larger worry he had concerning the mission itself. He tried to use engineering excuses to change Kirk's mind. DFu4ever fucked around with this message at 22:10 on May 16, 2013 |
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May 16, 2013 22:07
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monster on a stick posted:Hold on... I thought Scotty quit because he didn't know what was in the torpedoes and whether they were safe to fire or not; he wanted to open one up to make sure it wouldn't threaten the Enterprise. Am I misremembering? It was some crazy poo poo about the Torpedo's having chance of destabilizing the warpcore, they also said the same on the U.S.S. Vengeance when they say they can't use their phasers near to the warpcore without destroying the ship - this rule sure did come out of nowhere.
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May 16, 2013 22:13
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Saw it this morning, and I was actually pretty impressed. I liked Star Trek '09, but the promotional material for this one really didn't do much to hype me up for it. So I saw it in the morning for cheap because I didn't know whether I'd like it or not, but it turned out to be great. I had no idea going into it that it was a re-imagining of Wrath of Khan, but then it hit me as the movie went on and I got so excited about it. I actually thought it was better than ST'09. The villain felt more memorable, the story seemed more...I don't know, self-contained? It just seemed to refine what the '09 one did into a more palatable film. Also, I got legitimately giddy when Robocop first showed up on screen 
Rageaholic fucked around with this message at 22:16 on May 16, 2013 |
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May 16, 2013 22:14
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Rageaholic Monkey posted:I had no idea going into it that it was a re-imagining of Wrath of Khan, but then it hit me as the movie went on and I got so excited about it. I'd consider it more a re-imagining of Kirk and Khan's first meeting rather than WoK, since Wrath is about Khan seeking vengeance against Kirk based on how things played out the first time they met.
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May 16, 2013 22:18
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The film is not a remake of WoK. It's a remake of The Undiscovered Country, with a poo poo-ton of callback to WoK..
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May 16, 2013 22:21
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DFu4ever posted:Kirk died with not a hope in hell of being revived, at least from his perspective. His actions in the movie drove his character arc, which ended with him sacrificing himself for his crew. Him being revived doesn't lessen what the sacrifice meant to him and the characters around him, and the respect he gains from the act could be used for future story fodder. I dont think they should have kept him dead, I think they should have come up with another plot. There wasn't a drop of tension in that entire scene, because if you had half a brain cell you already knew what was coming. The fact that it felt so forced and unnatural, an excuse to get spock shouting KHAN, robbed it of any emotion. This is very silly guys, I don't give a poo poo! Just come up with a cool story guys, you don't need to twist the original non stop.[/quote] gently caress sorry that was open for a while ShineDog fucked around with this message at 00:50 on May 17, 2013 |
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May 16, 2013 22:27
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WastedJoker posted:I think it would've been neat if there was a flash-forward of 1000 yrs where it showed the direction the culture had taken as a result of that one event... They kind of did - only in a Voyager episode. The ship got caught in a planet's magnetosphere, and noticed that time accelerated on the planet below. Turns out, the planet's entire civilization revolved around the "Skyship" as a pseudo-deity, since every attempt the crew made to extricate itself caused pretty powerful earthquakes on the planet, so they evolved *around* the difficulties. Ultimately, the civilization evolves to Warp capability and perhaps even beyond what humans were capable of at the time. It was sort of chintzy at times, but it was a good episode.
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May 16, 2013 22:35
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There was also the TNG episode with Ray Wise in which he sees Picard and thinks he is a god, and is about to sacrifice Troi to The Picard. Also if I remember correctly Kirk did not give a gently caress about the Prime Directive. He would break it all the time.
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May 16, 2013 22:38
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scary ghost dog posted:A bunch of stuff I agree with yeah, I also had this problem. The film finds ways around dealing with consequences in favor of keeping the action moving. Great for keeping the movie going, but annoying when you stop and think about it. The worst offender for me was Khan crashing the Vengeance into San Francisco. Like, he must have killed hundreds of thousands of people, right? We've seen plenty of shots of the city before and its densely populated. The ship knocks down multiple skyscrapers in the middle of the afternoon. A lot of people must have died. Yet like, 3 minutes later Spock is chasing Khan through bustling city streets that are full of people who appear to just be going about there day. like "Welp, 350,000 federation citizens and Starfleet personnel just got crushed by a massive spaceship no more then 2 miles from here but I gotta have my 3:00 raktachino!" Chewbacca fucked around with this message at 23:52 on May 16, 2013 |
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May 16, 2013 22:45
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