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folgore posted:What were the demographics like for the rank and file of the Army of Northern Virginia during the ACW? I assume the leadership were mostly Southern aristocrats, but what about the average infantryman? I'm reading Battle Cry of Freedom and find it remarkable how this army kept its cohesion in the shittiest conditions while the CSA government was having difficulty retaining troop numbers elsewhere. I guess this is also asking the probably complicated question about why so many poor, non-slave holding white men were willing to give up everything for the Southern cause. This is from the appendix of General Lee's Army: From Victory to Collapse by Joseph Glatthaar:  Technical details about the sample and how it was analyzed here: http://i.imm.io/16gOB.png http://i.imm.io/16gOV.png Some of the tidbits from the book, getting to an answer to your last question: One-third of the people who served in the army or their families had slaves, and almost half lived in a household that had slaves. Moreover, slave owners frequently "lent" slaves to many of the poorer Southerners who couldn't afford slaves themselves.
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May 17, 2013 01:39
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man
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I think (think) that he just means Snackbar ain't posted in a year.
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May 17, 2013 01:41
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gohuskies posted:Especially when some of those officers are already on the record being caught in demonstrable lies about their participation in atrocities. Rodrigo Diaz's post mentions two officers who claimed to be anti-Nazi caught lying about killing commissars. If they'd lie about the commissars, they couldn't lie about their general feelings on Hitler? Yo I won't fully address HSAJ's arguments, because the post I had for that got deleted and I honestly can't be arsed writing another, but you should read my post again. Crüwell was a Nazi, and a fairly ardent one at that, as he led the 'Nazi clique' at Trent Park. This strong association with National Socialism is what makes concealing his enforcement of the Commissar Order and his disbelief over the mass executions remarkable. If you were talking about Hennecke, he never committed any war crimes that we know of, being only in charge of surface ships and the coastal defences at Normandy.
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May 17, 2013 05:25
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Frostwerks posted:Wait did Admiral Snackbar die? He got involved in a argument about tank destroyers that got violent.
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May 17, 2013 19:47
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A review of the Stalingrad trailer:quote:Love story - check;
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May 18, 2013 00:04
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coolatronic posted:A review of the Stalingrad trailer: I'm with you that the Stalingrad movie isn't going going to be very good. In fairness though, some of that stuff has been done by good war movies/TV series, too. Band of Brothers did several of those, as did The Pacific. So including those elements doesn't mean it's automatically going to be lovely. In fact, there's case were doing so is actually faithful to the facts. It's just that filmmakers generally rehash those tropes poorly and/or gratuitously. Which is how drivel like U-571, the Patriot or Memphis Belle get made. They take the whole "based on a true story," check off all the war movie boxes and fly it into the ground. It's not that they aren't entertaining films, but they miseducate viewers about important events in human history. And I get it, there's some degree of artistic license required to make a story flow better and be visually appealing. That's fine, even commendable. The Pacific illustrates how twisting events slightly actually brings them into clearer focus. But cutting corners, exhibiting willful ignorance or just flat-out not doing your homework is inexcusable. The part that really pisses me off about this is that there is a shitload of good source material for good, historically-faithful war films. Adapt some of Rick Atkinson's books, make The Bedford Boys, make a movie about the St. Nazaire raid or the Bruneval raid. Do something about the Bataan Death March or the campaign in New Guinea. There's some stuff in Beevor's Crete book that would make a decent movie. Heck for Stalingrad, we have Vasiliy Grossman's journals, which give some really neat vignettes into the human dimensions of the fighting there. It's all just sitting there, ready to be used. But Hollywood just goes "gently caress it" and warps a real event into something unrecognizable, botches the execution and gets patted on the back for it. I'm looking at you The Hurt Locker. And I crazy for thinking that Hollywood could be doing way better when it comes to making historical films? And if they did things better, what stories should they make into movies?
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May 18, 2013 02:27
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Bacarruda posted:But cutting corners, exhibiting willful ignorance or just flat-out not doing your homework is inexcusable. The Company of Heroes movie.  Here, I'll show you a "Panzer", according to it. Or an MG42! 
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May 18, 2013 03:43
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Azran posted:The Company of Heroes movie. That T-34 does look kinda cool and modern looking though, this Company of Heroes movie a thing?
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May 18, 2013 04:01
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Yeah, it was released like a year ago I think. It's a moneygrab from the now-defunct THQ, the previous owners of the Company of Heroes IP. Just to give you an idea of how awfully good it is. There's an scene in a bar where a RAF captain kills a couple of germans barehanded, and then he asks for fish and chips. I'd give it a  out of
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May 18, 2013 04:10
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Azran posted:The Company of Heroes movie. I hard to stare at it for a minute before I realized what it was. Christ, that poor T-34. The best part about that is the driver's hatch being open in the middle of a firefight. This is the oldest war movie trick in the book. Don't have period-correct armor, use what you have. Sometimes it works out ok and the VFX guys do decent vismod work and make existing vehicles look pretty convincing. Saving Private Ryan for example. In other cases, the filmakers just get lazy or rushed and you get stuff like Patton where both sides end up using M-26 Pershings, but the Germans had Iron Crosses on theirs so they're the Nazis, see. Azran posted:Just to give you an idea of how awfully good it is. There's an scene in a bar where a RAF captain kills a couple of germans barehanded, and then he asks for fish and chips. There goes my evening. Amazon Prime here I come.
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May 18, 2013 04:14
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Are there any Peter Jacksons out there who will go insane and get every single detail nailed down?
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May 18, 2013 04:23
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Bacarruda posted:The part that really pisses me off about this is that there is a shitload of good source material for good, historically-faithful war films. Adapt some of Rick Atkinson's books, make The Bedford Boys, make a movie about the St. Nazaire raid or the Bruneval raid. Do something about the Bataan Death March or the campaign in New Guinea. There's some stuff in Beevor's Crete book that would make a decent movie. Heck for Stalingrad, we have Vasiliy Grossman's journals, which give some really neat vignettes into the human dimensions of the fighting there. It's all just sitting there, ready to be used. Oh man I heard about the Bruneval raid from the historynetwork.org podcast and it sounded like just the most  commando thing ever. Part of the team got dropped late? No they're just really the flanking force for the beach!
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May 18, 2013 04:50
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Phobophilia posted:Are there any Peter Jacksons out there who will go insane and get every single detail nailed down? In Cross of Iron, pretty much all of the equipment is correct and the ending battle has a Russian attack with long and wide camera shots of very realistic combined arms tactics. It's Sam Peckinpah so you know it'll be very violent and dark. A very "Eastern Front" movie.
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May 18, 2013 04:59
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gradenko_2000 posted:Oh man I heard about the Bruneval raid from the historynetwork.org podcast and it sounded like just the most I think my favorite, "gently caress it, we'll improvise" story comes from the otherwise disastrous Dieppe raid in 1942. No. 3 Commando is assigned to take out the Berneval Battery on the right flank of the Dieppe landings. The main force gets jumped offshore, lands in broad daylight, gets cut to pieces. Meanwhile, one boat with twenty guys lands at the second beach. Major Peter Young, looks around, doesn't see the rest of the landing craft. What does he do? Lands anyways. So Major Young and nineteen other guys are huffing inland during broad daylight with 200 very pissed of Germans tipped off that they are coming. The only approach inland is blocked by barbed wire. Do they give up? No, the just use the ladder to climb the ravine and keep going. Finally, they get to the battery, outnumbered ten to one. They don't have enough men to storm the battery, but Major Young deploys his men and starts sniping away. They manage to pin down the Germans. Pissed off, the Germans swing around their big guns. They fire. Young's commandos duck. The shell flies overhead. The Germans try again. Again it flies overhead. They can't depress the guns low enough! So, Young keeps shooting, which he does for an hour and a half. Finally, the commandos run out of ammo and book it back to the beach, where an intrepid landing craft commander whisks them away. Oh, this guy had been loitering offshore for over two hours, with the Luftwaffe buzzing overhead and S-boats on the prowl. Twenty guys accomplished a mission that had been assigned to over four hundred commandos and did it without taking a single casualty. Pretty much my favorite example of + 
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May 18, 2013 05:16
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Personally, I still can't believe no one's made a movie based on the Battle of Leyte Gulf. It's a story that seems ready-made for Hollywood, yet the only time I can remember seeing it depicted in any form of media was the game Heroes of the Pacific for the original Xbox. It's a shame, I'd love to see the Johnston charging straight at the IJN fleet in glorious 3D.
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May 18, 2013 05:28
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Acebuckeye13 posted:Personally, I still can't believe no one's made a movie based on the Battle of Leyte Gulf. It's a story that seems ready-made for Hollywood, yet the only time I can remember seeing it depicted in any form of media was the game Heroes of the Pacific for the original Xbox. It's a shame, I'd love to see the Johnston charging straight at the IJN fleet in glorious 3D. I think Battleship sunk any chance for a while 
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May 18, 2013 05:34
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Acebuckeye13 posted:Personally, I still can't believe no one's made a movie based on the Battle of Leyte Gulf. It's a story that seems ready-made for Hollywood, yet the only time I can remember seeing it depicted in any form of media was the game Heroes of the Pacific for the original Xbox. It's a shame, I'd love to see the Johnston charging straight at the IJN fleet in glorious 3D. Bruce McKenna, one of the writers/producers on HBO's Band of Brothers and The Pacific is apparently working on a Midway project. So we may get some dramatic carrier-on-carrier action one day.
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May 18, 2013 05:45
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Anyone happen to know what Soviet unit(s) were involved in the liberation of Terezín/Theresienstadt?
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May 18, 2013 05:50
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coolatronic posted:A review of the Stalingrad trailer:  You're doing it wrong!   EVEN FINNS YOU MAKE HÄYHÄ CRY  I do wonder if modern gun afficianados with all their tactilol expertise are unreliable sources when it comes to estimating the authenticity of a historical flick.
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May 18, 2013 10:14
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Nenonen posted:
Yeah that popped out at me too. It's probably not that good for the feed mechanism to be yanking on the magazine, but anyone why knows the weapons of the time knows that they were often held by the magazine. So to answer your question, yes, gun aficionados are pretty good with authenticity, but only providing they know their poo poo.
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May 18, 2013 10:39
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Nenonen posted:
Barely-trained conscripts handling their weapons wrong? How unrealistic!
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May 18, 2013 16:40
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It's not like there's a lot of options with a ppsh. Holding it between the drum and the trigger looks like it'd feel like rear end, and the barrel shroud will burn your fingers off in a short order.
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May 18, 2013 16:54
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The Merry Marauder posted:Anyone happen to know what Soviet unit(s) were involved in the liberation of Terezín/Theresienstadt? It looks like they were armored units, likely from the 1st Ukrainian Front as it made its way from Berlin to Prague. I'll see if I can find anything else.
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May 18, 2013 17:03
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Bacarruda posted:Bruce McKenna, one of the writers/producers on HBO's Band of Brothers and The Pacific is apparently working on a Midway project. So we may get some dramatic carrier-on-carrier action one day. I wonder if it will carry through all of Fuchida's bullshit. Of course it will.
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May 18, 2013 17:14
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MothraAttack posted:It looks like they were armored units, likely from the 1st Ukrainian Front as it made its way from Berlin to Prague. I'll see if I can find anything else. Appreciate it.
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May 18, 2013 19:24
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ArchangeI posted:Barely-trained conscripts handling their weapons wrong? How unrealistic! The soldiers at Stalingrad were not very well trained other than the Red Guards if i'm not mistaken.
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May 18, 2013 20:20
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coolatronic posted:A review of the Stalingrad trailer: I don't understand most of those complaints. It's extremely hard to tell an effective story with emotional investment in characters if you don't focus on a few individuals out of the hundreds of thousands. Complaining that the movie is made as a movie rather than showing tactically correct infantry operations is completely insane. The weapons and tactical poo poo has already been covered here. Some of the other sutff is unnecessary, but how do you make a good and effective war movie without the first two, and the third being something that is actually probably more accurate than the "correct" handling would be? People are fuckin dumb about war movies.
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May 18, 2013 22:30
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Who was that massive armchair general sperg who devoted an entire website to picking out every little inaccuracy minute by minute of Band of Brothers?
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May 18, 2013 22:52
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Who was that massive armchair general sperg who devoted an entire website to picking out every little inaccuracy minute by minute of Band of Brothers? He's got a lot of other content, about Band of Brothers and other WW2 stuff, but the "Historian's Critique of the HBO Miniseries" begins here. It goes on for several pages so if you want to read it all, you have to keep clicking "next page" at the bottom. It's actually kind of fun to read someone sperging this hard.
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May 18, 2013 23:18
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wdarkk posted:I wonder if it will carry through all of Fuchida's bullshit. Of course it will. What was Fuchida's bullshit? I did a quick search but there appears to be quite a bit of leeway all around.
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May 19, 2013 02:34
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Raenir Salazar posted:What was Fuchida's bullshit? I did a quick search but there appears to be quite a bit of leeway all around. This has a broad overview of, but basically he used his first-mover advantage to put out stories to make more or less everyone involved in Pearl Harbor and Midway (but especially himself) look better. It was accepted since when I said he made everyone look better I mean that it appealed to western dramatic sympathies and was thus accepted officially. He seems to have been widely discredited in Japan since the sixties but not in the west until recently.
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May 19, 2013 02:53
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wdarkk posted:This has a broad overview of, but basically he used his first-mover advantage to put out stories to make more or less everyone involved in Pearl Harbor and Midway (but especially himself) look better. It was accepted since when I said he made everyone look better I mean that it appealed to western dramatic sympathies and was thus accepted officially. He seems to have been widely discredited in Japan since the sixties but not in the west until recently. Yeah I clicked on that, you might want to click on the other link there, read to the part that says "On the other hand". I don't think its a good idea to rely 100% on Parshall.
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May 19, 2013 02:59
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Raenir Salazar posted:What was Fuchida's bullshit? I did a quick search but there appears to be quite a bit of leeway all around. If you want a really good overview of it I cannot recommend 'Shattered Sword' highly enough, it spends a lot of time discrediting Fuchida.
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May 19, 2013 03:00
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Raenir Salazar posted:Yeah I clicked on that, you might want to click on the other link there, read to the part that says "On the other hand". I don't think its a good idea to rely 100% on Parshall. About that...
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May 19, 2013 03:10
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They should write a screenplay about the efforts to figure this poo poo out.
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May 19, 2013 03:25
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^^^ They should, it would be awesome. Parshall really doesn't come across well there tbh.
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May 19, 2013 03:27
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Raenir Salazar posted:^^^ They should, it would be awesome. How do you figure? He utterly tears into Bennett, sure, but only because Bennett clearly has no idea what he's talking about.
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May 19, 2013 03:54
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wdarkk posted:They should write a screenplay about the efforts to figure this poo poo out. It would be awesome, but sadly the box office figures for movies about historiography aren't great box office draws. Unless they're National Treasure, that is. 
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May 19, 2013 04:28
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Did Japan commit major war crimes against China or was it to other asian countries as well like Korea? they committed war crimes against everyone I know, but against China it seemed systematic. I don't think there was much systematic war criminal action against the US. It seemed more just usual prisoner abuse than anything else, unless they were specifically targeting POWs based on ethnicity or religion etc. Kingsbury3 fucked around with this message at 05:17 on May 19, 2013 |
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May 19, 2013 05:15
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Raenir Salazar posted:Parshall really doesn't come across well there tbh. Why do you think so?
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May 19, 2013 05:17
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