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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Tier I are most likely to win a game and are the Elf teams, Dwarf, Human, Orc, Skaven, Undead, Amazon, and Norse. Tier II are average, and are expected to win about half of their games, and are Chaos, Chaos Dwarf, Necromantic, Khemri, Lizardman, Nurgle, and Vampire. Tier III are like the gimmick teams that can be a lot of fun but are still expected to lose most of their games, and are Ogre, Goblin, Halfling, and Underworld. Weinertron posted:Thank you so much for this. I'm starting a small tournament with half new players, so the experienced guys are playing B-teams. Take the 2nd tier with a grain of salt. Most of those teams are highly competitive. An experienced player will have no trouble winning with them. I've seen a different tier list somewhere that I like better: T1: Every team not in lower tiers T1.5: Underworld, Khorne, Slann, Chaos Pact (the last two aren't in Cyanide) T2: Vampires T3: Goblins, Halflings, Ogres The T1.5 and below teams listed here actually have a clear disadvantage compared to the other teams. For example Nurgle and Khemri can easily overcome their slowness by conservative play, while teams in the lower tiers cant do a lot about their negatraits.
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May 13, 2013 23:11
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I think Chaos Pact are pretty cool, it's a shame they're not in cyanide.
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May 13, 2013 23:18
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a!n posted:Take the 2nd tier with a grain of salt. Most of those teams are highly competitive. An experienced player will have no trouble winning with them. So far our experienced guys are playing Halflings (me!), Ogres, Lizardmen without Sauri, Skaven without throwers or blitzers. Do the crippled normal teams sound too terrible and they'd be better off playing a gimmick?
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May 13, 2013 23:20
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I kind of feel like Skaven without blitzers could still run circles around some newbie coaches because of all that gutter runner MA.
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May 13, 2013 23:24
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I've made a mistake. I was led to believe that the tiers I posted were the ones proposed by the BBRC but it turns out they were just a community made tier list. And it's a pretty lovely one too, if you ask me, for many of the reasons already discussed. The BBRC did create a tier list and proposed to Games Workshop that they include inducement based bonuses and penalties based on tiers, but GW rejected that concept (probably for the best), and I'm not sure the "official" tiers were ever made public.
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May 13, 2013 23:25
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All skinks can be a git as well. They're fast and don't fall down enough.
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May 13, 2013 23:25
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:I've made a mistake. I was led to believe that the tiers I posted were the ones proposed by the BBRC but it turns out they were just a community made tier list. And it's a pretty lovely one too, if you ask me, for many of the reasons already discussed. The BBRC did create a tier list and proposed to Games Workshop that they include inducement based bonuses and penalties based on tiers, but GW rejected that concept (probably for the best), and I'm not sure the "official" tiers were ever made public. The "official" tier list is pretty much what a!n posted. Which is to say, GW just lumps most teams together and only really distinguishes the deliberately gimped ones.
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May 13, 2013 23:33
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Weinertron posted:So far our experienced guys are playing Halflings (me!), Ogres, Lizardmen without Sauri, Skaven without throwers or blitzers. Do the crippled normal teams sound too terrible and they'd be better off playing a gimmick? Nah, those sound fine to me. I agree with LibbyM that the Skaven team will still be able to do a lot of its bullshit, but going entirely without blitzers is really harsh for them as they have to roll a lot of dice naturally. That alone will result in plenty of turnovers from skulls on blockdice. If you really want to make sure, restrict them to 3 GR. VVVVVVVVVVVVVVV When I first saw that video I thought the league had to be played at 4x speed, which would explain the a!n fucked around with this message at 00:30 on May 14, 2013 |
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May 13, 2013 23:47
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So cknoor posted this video a couple hours ago of a match that he and Ethan ran across. It hurts to watch. Like, I know that I was new at one time, but these guys play like the ai. No, no, worse than the ai. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0Aulu7AybE Think he stops the speed up around a few minutes or something, but seriously, look at it.
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May 13, 2013 23:51
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Weinertron posted:So far our experienced guys are playing Halflings (me!), Ogres, Lizardmen without Sauri, Skaven without throwers or blitzers. Do the crippled normal teams sound too terrible and they'd be better off playing a gimmick? Lizardmen without Saurus is brutal. All Str 2 and AV 7 means most of your team is going to get sidelined every match. I would say let the guy have at least a line worth (3 Saurus) so he doesn't have to sacrifice so many skinks.
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May 14, 2013 03:45
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The big thing is that skinks are rubbish on their own. They function excellently as support units, using their high mobility to set up screens, mark squares, and adapt rapidly to a changing environment. However, their low strength, merely average agility, and limited skill access means they have trouble capitalizing on the situations they set up. Without a set of strong players capable of capitalizing, they have no defense against several opposing players on the ball for instance.
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May 14, 2013 04:16
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deathbagel posted:Lizardmen without Saurus is brutal. All Str 2 and AV 7 means most of your team is going to get sidelined every match. I would say let the guy have at least a line worth (3 Saurus) so he doesn't have to sacrifice so many skinks. To be honest, I feel like it would probably be best for the newbies if they played against actual regular teams rather than absurd gimmicks. All skink lizardmen will make things harder for the vets, but playing against that will also not really teach the new guys anything valuable. So just have the vets play the shittier teams normally. You know, like Khemri, Vamps, Ogres, Gobbos. The later three will also probably be more fun to play against than something silly like an all skink team. Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 04:24 on May 14, 2013 |
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May 14, 2013 04:22
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Keep in mind the all-skink player is going to get piles of inducement money for most matches. If you allow star players, that's going to do a lot to make up the difference. Also, the strength disadvantage will matter a lot less against really inexperienced players who do not really "get" things like not dodging constantly, how to set up block assists, doing nonrisky things before risky things, paying attention to the turn counter, and that passing is usually really really hard. An experienced vet can reliably beat a rank newbie with any team at all. I would field a team of 11 halflings against a newbie with a 1000tv orc team and still assume I'd win three times out of four. (Especially if I induce a halfling chef!)
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May 14, 2013 06:39
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This is a good point, going halflings in a newbie league is going to be a real awful thing to do if you induce halfling chefs. They're not going to learn the importance of starting a team with rerolls if they don't actually get there rerolls.
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May 14, 2013 06:45
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Weinertron posted:Thank you so much for this. I'm starting a small tournament with half new players, so the experienced guys are playing B-teams. I will totally play vampires in this league, chris.steen@gmail.com, send league information or post in this thread.
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May 14, 2013 09:00
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Are Necro really a tier 2 team? I've always found them easier to play well with than Undead.
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May 14, 2013 14:32
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cmndstab posted:Are Necro really a tier 2 team? I've always found them easier to play well with than Undead. Those tiers are unofficial and appear to be geared towards 1000TV tournaments. Notice that skill-heavy teams that peak early (e.g. Humans/Amazons/Norse) are all listed in tier 1, while slow-developing teams that are devastatingly effective later on (e.g. Chaos/Chaos Dwarves/Lizardmen) are all counted as tier 2. If these tiers were for 2000+ TV teams these would be reversed. Undead is definitely a much better tournament candidate out of the box: undead teams are cheaper to build and will be more "complete" at 1000TV, and necromantic positionals are more SPP hungry (and in the case of flesh golems, vastly worse at getting SPP than their undead counterpart.)
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May 14, 2013 14:47
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Leperflesh posted:Keep in mind the all-skink player is going to get piles of inducement money for most matches. If you allow star players, that's going to do a lot to make up the difference. This is true but the thing is, are you teaching the new players anything worthwhile? Take the all-skink team for example. They've got basically one play: grab the ball and dodge through a million tacklezones to score. Either it fails and the newbie learns nothing, or it succeeds and the newbie learns that hey dodging isn't as risky as I thought, I should do more of that. If it's just for getting them to learn super-basic stuff like how to move and throw the ball then it's fine but otherwise I don't know if the experience would be all that valuable. If it's going to be a continuous league that goes on a while I might suggest that the vets play normal teams (excluding frustrating ones like dwarves, of course) but they're restricted from taking block, dodge, and guard on skill ups (maybe mighty blow too). This gives the new players a distinct advantage (especially if they're being advised by the new players on skill-ups so they have the 'good' skills) while at the same time keeping things interesting for the vets by getting them out of their comfort zones and playing with skills they might otherwise ignore and trying out skill combinations they might not do in a 'real' league. The new players would see more or less normal play which they could learn from and start developing strategies for, but not have to worry about running up against a blodging murder squad. Basically everybody gets something out of it.
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May 14, 2013 16:35
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I think if you're going to play a mixed league with veterans and brand newbies, it's very difficult to handicap the vets in an effective way that also still produces "normal" bloodbowl games which the newbies can learn from. You could give large inducement bonuses to the newbies, restrict cash for the oldbies, restrict teams, etc. but whatever you do is going to mostly be guesswork and it will also tend to be confusing for the newbies. A good way to learn bloodbowl is to be taught, by a veteran, in individual matches with throw-away teams so you can learn the ropes with nothing at stake. The veteran should not try to just crush the newbie, but instead act as a tutor. Once the basics are there, a newbies-only tournament can work, and once everyone has a dozen games or so under their belts, it starts making more sense to run a mixed tournament with some kind of handicap for the long-time vets. But a vets-vs-newbies mixed tournament is goign to come down to the vets winning, unless you so thoroughly cripple their ability to play that it becomes a farce.
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May 14, 2013 20:08
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So this just happened:
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May 15, 2013 23:11
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Ha! you might have lost all but two of your guys to that invasion, bu he lost... a single goblin! You got this one in the bag.
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May 16, 2013 00:24
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You only need two elves to score a point.
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May 16, 2013 00:37
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I just picked this up from the Be mine 8 bundle and I"m loving it so far. I can see that it's all about planning / timing your moves, position your folks, then move your "sure things" then do your risky moves. I'm stil learning the ropes on who can attack/shove folks and who can't (I had a bunch of ppl with block ability that couldn't "Attack") I can't wait to figure out the mechanics of the game and start playing against goons.. My guess is that Multiplayer is 1 session only.. LIke say we can't take a few turns then come back later in the day and play.
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May 16, 2013 02:00
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tater_salad posted:I'm stil learning the ropes on who can attack/shove folks and who can't (I had a bunch of ppl with block ability that couldn't "Attack") The rules are that any of your players can either move (standing up counts as a move, so players who start the turn on the ground normally can't block) or block an adjacent enemy. You can do as many of these as you want, until you run out of players or gently caress up and get one of your own players knocked over (a turnover, which ends the turn.) Note that if a player gets knocked down hard enough then they'll be stunned and unable to get up for an extra turn (of course, if they're knocked down even harder they can get KOd, injured, or killed.) Once per turn you can select one of your unmoved players and use your "blitz" move to have them move and block in the middle of the move. There's no special qualifications for a blitz and any player who's not stunned can do it, but only one per turn. If you try to attack an enemy player who's not adjacent and you haven't used your blitz yet the game will automatically trigger it, otherwise there's a lightning bolt button you can press before a move to indicate that you're attempting a blitz. The "block" skill just increases your odds when blocking/being blocked. One of the 6 results on the block die is "Both Down" (the one that has a small skull and a small yellow "pow" burst), if a player who doesn't have Block rolls that then they're hosed and it's as bad for them as rolling a skull, but if you have Block you're more or less immune to Both Down results and can throw Both Downs with impunity.
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May 16, 2013 02:17
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Gabriel Pope posted:but if you have Block you're more or less immune to Both Down results and can throw Both Downs with impunity. The exception to this is an opponent with wrestle can make you lie down with him. Won't cause a turnover though.
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May 16, 2013 04:51
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tater_salad, poke around in your install directories and find the manual for the game. It's got a pretty good introduction to the rules. You might also want to check out cKnoor's introductory videos on YouTube.
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May 16, 2013 05:28
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I have a friend who legit never understood blood bowl at all when myself and some of our other friends would talk about it, and really couldn't be bothered to sit there and read a rulebook or have it explained to them, and now knows how to and does play the game solely because he learned watching those cknoor chaos videos.
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May 16, 2013 05:36
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LibbyM posted:I have a friend who legit never understood blood bowl at all when myself and some of our other friends would talk about it, and really couldn't be bothered to sit there and read a rulebook or have it explained to them, and now knows how to and does play the game solely because he learned watching those cknoor chaos videos. They're great too, but in the last month cKnoor has been posting some "how to play bloodbowl" tutorials specifically aimed at the new player. Start with this one
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May 16, 2013 05:44
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Leperflesh posted:They're great too, but in the last month cKnoor has been posting some "how to play bloodbowl" tutorials specifically aimed at the new player. Thank Christ. I keep trying to get into Blood Bowl, and I keep failing.
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May 16, 2013 05:57
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And if you're trying to get a better feel for strategy, watch the LPs. Agent's current one is a little less education-focused, but Cknoor's and Yapo's both went into pretty solid detail about how and why they did what they did.
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May 16, 2013 06:14
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Muscle Tracer posted:And if you're trying to get a better feel for strategy, watch the LPs. Agent's current one is a little less education-focused, but Cknoor's and Yapo's both went into pretty solid detail about how and why they did what they did. Muscle tracer is my only bro in this thread 
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May 18, 2013 05:31
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Blackmage Yapo posted:Muscle tracer is my only bro in this thread Your LP was what 1) got me into Blood Bowl and 2) gave me a horrible phobia of playing as AV7 teams 
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May 18, 2013 17:54
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Yapo taught me that 1DBs are good.
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May 18, 2013 18:40
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is there a link to it? tried finding it, and it wasn't on lparchive, unless i'm an idiot.
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May 18, 2013 18:43
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E-Money posted:is there a link to it? tried finding it, and it wasn't on lparchive, unless i'm an idiot. https://www.youtube.com/user/blackmageyapo?feature=watch Yapo's was interesting because he ran it as a tournament style league over the open play style the other lps have used.
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May 18, 2013 19:35
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Corbeau posted:Yapo taught me that 1DBs are good. And even -2dbs are fine! If it weren't for all the poo poo he gets in the videos for doing it, I'd say it wasn't the best tool for learning Blood Bowl, but he gets a ton of poo poo, and then backs up his reasoning, with math!
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May 19, 2013 03:24
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I watched some of Yapo's LP and noticed he had player numbers above each player, which seem like a great way to identify positional players or those with particular skills quickly. Does anyone know how to get those numbers to appear? Is it a mod? Thanks!
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May 19, 2013 21:04
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FlyFishinInnuendo posted:I watched some of Yapo's LP and noticed he had player numbers above each player, which seem like a great way to identify positional players or those with particular skills quickly. Hit 'n' a few times. It'll cycle through displaying player types, names, numbers, and how much SPP they have/need.
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May 19, 2013 21:09
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Hit "n". You can cycle through numbers, positional names, and player names.
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May 19, 2013 21:09
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You can also hit g to turn on the grid.
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May 19, 2013 21:50
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