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With the way the world is going I bet Disney will buy Nintendo at some point.
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May 18, 2013 20:08
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Samara posted:The Wii U is Nintendo's Waterloo, I think they are done in home consoles. Meh. So was the N64 for not going discs. So was the GameCube for not being a DVD player. So was the Wii for not being HD. If the Internet is to be believed you'd think they just make consoles out of spite at this point.
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May 18, 2013 20:10
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Quest For Glory II posted:I mean everyone right now assumes that Wii U will be just like the 3DS. But Wii U can't keep up with the 3DS in first party support, because the 3DS is a handheld that allows for smaller budgets and smaller teams and smaller ambitions, and Nintendo has already admitted that they have no idea how to staff or budget an HD production for U. In addition, unlike the Wii U, the 3DS had no real competitors.
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May 18, 2013 20:18
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WendigoJohnson posted:I dunno most of their new franchises have been Mario Spinoffs or stuff like Pikmin. People like Metroid and Zelda because they're action games with a lot of exploration. I think when people say they want a new Nintendo IP they want something along those lines. They just want more action games. I don't understand all these complaints about no new IPs. First, Nintendo has such a huge backlog of franchises that they could fill an entire generation of games with basically nothing but revivals of their old franchises that haven't seen use in forever and most people would be none the wiser because they might as well be new IPs at this point. And second, Nintendo has been making new IPs. Lots of them in fact. Just off the top of my head: Pushmo/Crashmo, Dillon's Rolling Western (and its sequel), HarmoKnight, and Sakura Samurai, all within the last two years on the 3DS eShop alone. If you're going to bitch about their IP use - and there are plenty of legitimate things to bitch about, like how they shoehorn existing IPs into what was an original property (see Kirby's Epic Yarn, Star Fox Adventures) - fine. There's no need to make things up on top of it.
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May 18, 2013 20:22
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Here is my take on the entire situation. I've played and owned every Nintendo console every created in chronological order (NES, SNES, N64, NGC, Wii). However, I do not own a Nintendo Wii-U. I bought the Gamecube and the Wii at 12:01AM on their respective launch days. I still love Nintendo, but here is my take on everything: 1) The Wii-U is too darned expensive and doesn't have any great games for it I feel I must own right now. 2) I am having too much fun with my Nintendo 3DS. It gives me all the fun I need. 3) When the Wii came out, it was on the news, people talked about it and everyone was playing. Mom, grandma, little kids, etc... I have heard zero people "on the street" talking about the Wii-U. Zero! That is scary. 4) I played the Wii-U at a friend's house. I played the multiplayer Nintendo Land games and I seriously had fun! It really is a fun machine. However, said fun isn't worth $350. 5) The Wii-U fails to wow me. The NES was ****ing amazing! Played it at a friend's house and instantally wanted it! The Super Nintendo had Super Mario Land! I was NOT going to buy a Nintendo 64 back in the day. I saw and played Super Mario 64 at Toys R Us at a demo kiosk and I just knew I had to have this! It was Mario in 3D doing Mario Stuff!!! The Nintendo Gamecube had some interesting game demos. I was stoked when I saw the 2000 Spaceworld Zelda Vs Ganondorf fight footage. I was crushed when I saw "Celda" and almost didn't buy the Gamecube. But, it was a worthy purchase. It had Pikmin! It had Super Smash Bros Melee! Wind Waker turned out to be pretty good in retrospect but I didn't care for it a lot when I beat it. The ending was pathetic in my opinion. It has grown on me. The Nintendo Wii was a "Twilight Princess" playing device and the motion control promise seemed kickass. Wii Sports with 2-4 people was some of the most gaming fun I'd had in years!! Each console from NES to the Wii offered something. It had "something new" that made me feel I had to have this! The Wii-U is *fun* but it just doesn't have that "you must have this" element to it. What does it bring to the table? It brings a LOT of non-gaming stuff to the table: Netflix, Hulu, Miiverse, Video Chat, etc... these are nice features, but they are NOT games! The Wii-U has no killer app. The graphics are pretty in Nintendo Land, but I feel all these games could just have easily been jazzy Wii games. So, I still love Nintendo and the 3DS is the bomb, but the Wii-U, man... it just lacks that special something that grabs my heart and says "buy me!" Sure it has New Super Mario Bros U, and it is fun to play and is in HD, but, it is still JUST a 2D Mario game. It is NOT a giant jump forward in game play or technology. If they can deliever a great looking Zelda or 3D Mario game then we can talk. So in short, Wii-U doesn't grab my heart and urge me to buy it. $350 is way too expensive. No killer games right now. I don't like the giant touch pad idea. I hope Nintendo turns things around, they probably will. They just need a Smash Bros game that is Melee 2.0 and a 3D Zelda game that doesn't suck and they'll be doing good for themselves. If Nintendo wants to save the Wii-U, make a new deluxe bundle for $299. Include a pro-controller and a copy of Smash Bros U and/or New Zelda U. That will sell units. Runaway Five fucked around with this message at 20:27 on May 18, 2013 |
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May 18, 2013 20:22
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The 3DS has 2 competitors, one of which is the big Apple. There's a reason Nintendo takes pot shots at them and won't release anything on the iOS. There's thousands of cheap entertainment ready to be bought over the air. Bored with one game? Buy the next one for just $0.99 without having to go to the store. There's an entire generation of kids who don't know what a game boy was but do know the iPhone has Angry Birds on it. The 3DS pulling itself up is honestly a miracle.
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May 18, 2013 20:24
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Samara posted:The Wii U is Nintendo's Waterloo, I think they are done in home consoles.
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May 18, 2013 20:26
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:Yes you could. What part of your rear end did you pull that from? No you certainly couldn't run wii games out of the box. For proof look up the Giantbomb Wii U day long stream where they show you couldn't run Wii games, run netflix, youtube, or the eshop until the update.
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May 18, 2013 20:39
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:Meh. So was the N64 for not going discs. So was the GameCube for not being a DVD player. So was the Wii for not being HD. If the Internet is to be believed you'd think they just make consoles out of spite at this point. All of those consoles sold well enough to keep the company stable. Is the Wii U selling well enough? It's certainly selling far worse than Nintendo anticipated. I keep seeing the "Everyone discounted the previous consoles!!" defense and it just comes off as people trying to handwave away the very real and terrible numbers for the Wii U. They aren't done in the home console market though, that's an absurd statement to make. They'll try again if the Wii U continues to bomb.
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May 18, 2013 20:43
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:The 3DS has 2 competitors, one of which is the big Apple. There's a reason Nintendo takes pot shots at them and won't release anything on the iOS. There's thousands of cheap entertainment ready to be bought over the air. Bored with one game? Buy the next one for just $0.99 without having to go to the store. There's an entire generation of kids who don't know what a game boy was but do know the iPhone has Angry Birds on it. The 3DS pulling itself up is honestly a miracle.
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May 18, 2013 20:46
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:The 3DS has 2 competitors, one of which is the big Apple. There's a reason Nintendo takes pot shots at them and won't release anything on the iOS. There's thousands of cheap entertainment ready to be bought over the air. Bored with one game? Buy the next one for just $0.99 without having to go to the store. There's an entire generation of kids who don't know what a game boy was but do know the iPhone has Angry Birds on it. The 3DS pulling itself up is honestly a miracle. This isnt true, I think theres a clear tiering of the marketplace. Nobody expects the sort of games you can get on the 3DS on any iOS platform. The business model on iOS is firmly entrenched to the casual market and money gets wrung from that market through IAP. Square experimented with releasing some final fantasies on the iOS and android markets and as far as I can tell, they were complete flops. Everyone wants phone gaming to be something you do in waiting rooms and on the bus, and phones have pretty shamelessly exploited that market. Like Matt Wilson said, nobody is going to pay more than 2 dollars for an iOS game. There are still people expecting a more traditional game, and thats the niche 3DS is surviving in. From all the sales reports Ive seen, it seems to be thriving, and considering the death of the Vita it looks like that particular niche only has room for one person. You cant cater to every genre of games with touch controls, and 3DS is the only place you can go to get games that actually use buttons. These games are expected to be higher in production value, and expected to cost more though. Thats the psychological barrier that prevents people from buying FF4 for 14 dollars on iOS but people pay 25 dollars for it as a gameboy remake.
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May 18, 2013 20:57
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While Apple (and to a lesser extent Android) have the potential to be serious competitors, I do think it's pretty silly to say that they're the sole kings of casual gaming. Multiplayer is a big appeal of Nintendo's games, as shown by them forcing it into even Super Mario Bros, and while Apps can do multiplayer, they're not as welcoming to just "pop in Mario Kart and play"-style stuff. That, combined with the pricing issues that Apps have, give other systems meaningful niches to play around in.
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May 18, 2013 21:01
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:The 3DS has 2 competitors, one of which is the big Apple. There's a reason Nintendo takes pot shots at them and won't release anything on the iOS. There's thousands of cheap entertainment ready to be bought over the air. Bored with one game? Buy the next one for just $0.99 without having to go to the store. There's an entire generation of kids who don't know what a game boy was but do know the iPhone has Angry Birds on it. The 3DS pulling itself up is honestly a miracle. I sort of said this on the last page but I don't think this is true anymore. Yes, I am sure the 3DS would be way more successful if the iPhone wasn't around, but at this point I think the people who are buying 3DS games (and there are quite a few of them) are well aware of the gap in quality between Angry Birds and something like Mario 3D land. I have an iPhone and i used to have a 3DS. I buy iPhone games because they are a dollar and I don't give a poo poo. I bought 3DS games to sit down and play them to competition because I knew they would be good games regardless of portability. It's like comparing Apples and Oranges until iPhone gets proper developer support which it never will.
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May 18, 2013 21:06
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Haruharuharuko posted:No you certainly couldn't run wii games out of the box. For proof look up the Giantbomb Wii U day long stream where they show you couldn't run Wii games, run netflix, youtube, or the eshop until the update. Bah, read that as "Wii U" games. Welp lol.
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May 18, 2013 21:06
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:If you're new electronic device isn't backward compatible it doesn't matter the reason, good or bad, that poo poo is unacceptable in 2013. Backward Compatibility has never, ever been a deciding factor in the console market. Like ever. That's the primary reason why BC is ultimately treated as an afterthought by all console makers. Sony had to take it out to cut costs. The 360's BC outside of repurchasing the games on their market place is basically poo poo. The Wii's success didn't come from being able to keep playing GameCube games or its joke of a Virtual Console, it came from appealing to people who weren't into videogames in the first place. It's a nicety, a really cool one to have, and I've clung onto my BC capable PS3 specifically because I really like having it. However, having BC removed from the PS3 didn't stop the system from eventually selling neck and neck with the 360, despite all of the angry people posting how a lack of BC (and a lack of Linux support, and lovely compared to XBL online, and the PSN disaster, and you-name-your-thing-you-demand-that-isn't-there) was going to kill the PS3. Pretending that BC is somehow going to decide the next console generation is, to put it nicely, misinformed at best. The reason the PS3 and the 360 went on to sell nearly 80 million units apiece is because of NEW CONTENT MADE FOR THOSE SYSTEMS. Old content, either through physical BC or through their respective online stores, might have sold well, but very few people initially invested in a 360 just because you could buy Resident Evil 4 HD, or a PS3 just because you could play PSOne games. Catering primarily to those long-time fans DOES NOT GUARANTEE SUCCESS. You have to have new content to drive interest. Right now, the Wii U's backward compatibility with Wii games is not propping the system up. It's not even a blip on most people's radar. The only people who give a poo poo about it are the early adopters who also have old Wii games, or the early adopters who picked one up knowing they could also play any Wii games they missed. Backward Compatibility will not make the Wii U a success, a price drop and new games that more people want to play will (likely help) make it a success. The 3DS should be ample proof of this to you: it didn't start selling until a price drop and it started getting new software, the fact that it could play every single DS game didn't matter in the grand scheme of things. As far as the actual market is concerned, most people who want to keep playing old games from old platforms don't even bother upgrading to a new expensive piece of hardware right away, particularly if the old system works just fine. That's kinda why the Wii U is struggling right now! The majority of the people who bought the original Wii have NO REASON TO UPGRADE TO THE WII U, even though the system itself works just fine with old Wii titles, even though old Virtual Console games can be transferred to the U to play in Wii Mode.
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May 18, 2013 21:12
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fivegears4reverse posted:
What, you mean people aren't rushing out to the stores to spend $350 to play Wii Sports for 4 months before leaving it to collect dust under the TV?
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May 18, 2013 21:16
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Surlaw posted:This hasn't quite worked even when the games are really good. Hotel Dusk did poorly enough that they never brought its sequel to the US in spite of it getting a full English release, Chibi Robo is pretty much dead in spite of being really fun. I wish this DID work because their few attempts at new franchises have been good. They barely advertised those 2 games. And hotel Dusk is a VN, not exactly something with mass market appeal.
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May 18, 2013 21:28
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E3 will make or break the Wii U. If it gets solid games, the console will be able to coexist with Sony and Microsoft. But they won't fail on the same level as Sega, Nintendo has a solid markethold on handhelds for the near future.
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May 18, 2013 21:28
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ImpAtom posted:While Apple (and to a lesser extent Android) have the potential to be serious competitors, I do think it's pretty silly to say that they're the sole kings of casual gaming. That, and I literally don't understand the idea that Mario and Zelda are "worn-out" IPs. Honestly the Wii U is a disaster so far and even as someone who typically blows money on a Nintendo console, I don't want it but that's mostly because it's expensive for me as this point. Oh, and it completely lacks games. There's no incentive for me to buy a Wii U until the new 3D Mario or Zelda comes out and I'm absolutely getting it for Smash. Nintendo should absolutely develop new IPs (and honestly, bring back some old ones. Star Fox and F-Zero haven't had a decent game in years and Metroid was doing just fine before the absolute turd that was Other M) but the idea that they should set aside their old ones is pretty dumb. Mario and friends will continue to sell well and be great games whether or not goon #69420 thinks they're worn out or not. Honestly, I almost feel like there's more brand loyalty to Nintendo characters and games than there is systems. It's part of why I felt let down by Nintendo throwing the Wii U out there with NSMBW U and a bunch of garbage. Why do you expect anyone who actually regularly used their Wii to purchase a system at that price point with those games? That and with lovely marketing they're hardly attracting any new customers. I just don't know what Nintendo is doing at this point, but at least they won't be dumb enough to push their already successful IPs aside.
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May 18, 2013 21:30
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Alteisen posted:They barely advertised those 2 games. What has mass market appeal these days aside from shooters?
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May 18, 2013 21:32
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computer parts posted:What has mass market appeal these days aside from shooters? Sports games.
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May 18, 2013 21:34
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Zelda is very worn out, to me. Their LttP reboot isn't exciting like it should be, and 3D Zelda games have just been OoT remakes. Skyward Sword felt like a long tutorial. Mario has similar issues, the New series is impossibly derivative and is an exercise in frustration multiplayer.
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May 18, 2013 21:35
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I would welcome another oldschool Metroid game, or possibly a Prime game (though more exploration and less shooting, so not like 3), with open arms. That was always my favorite Nintendo franchise by a mile.
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May 18, 2013 21:39
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Pyroxene Stigma posted:Zelda is very worn out, to me. Their LttP reboot isn't exciting like it should be, and 3D Zelda games have just been OoT remakes. Skyward Sword felt like a long tutorial. Mario has similar issues, the New series is impossibly derivative and is an exercise in frustration multiplayer. In my opinion, the last great franchise game Nintendo made was Super Mario Galaxy.
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May 18, 2013 21:48
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Pyroxene Stigma posted:Zelda is very worn out, to me. Their LttP reboot isn't exciting like it should be, and 3D Zelda games have just been OoT remakes. Skyward Sword felt like a long tutorial. Mario has similar issues, the New series is impossibly derivative and is an exercise in frustration multiplayer. The thing is, I don't really think most folks share your experience. Outside of the part about the 3D Zelda games being OoT remakes being simply not true, my anecdotal experience with Zelda games is that people still get excited for them! I'm excited for the LttP reboot (and I've never played the original) that given that fanfare and sales with each Zelda release, I'm pretty sure it's still a reliably selling franchise that produces good games. The idea they should set it aside because it's gotten "old" is dumb. And yes, the New Super Mario Series are pretty boring and similar to me, but still somehow manage to sell well because.... 2D Mario games tend to do that. Your line about the multiplayer being simply frustrating is untrue though, it's seriously the best part of those games. Galaxy has awesome level designs, sure, but you can only achieve the Pissed Off Friend experience with the New Super Mario games. Don't be a fun hater!
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May 18, 2013 21:48
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A cool drat horse posted:The thing is, I don't really think most folks share your experience. "Most folks" who bought a Wii don't know what a marios or a zeldon is, nor do they care.
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May 18, 2013 21:50
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OLIVIAS WILDE RIDER posted:"Most folks" who bought a Wii don't know what a marios or a zeldon is, nor do they care. This is true, however most of them did buy The Just Dance Quadrilogy.
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May 18, 2013 21:51
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OLIVIAS WILDE RIDER posted:"Most folks" who bought a Wii don't know what a marios or a zeldon is, nor do they care. I'm pretty sure most people have heard of Mario, just saying
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May 18, 2013 21:56
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Beamed posted:I'm pretty sure most people have heard of Mario, just saying They just don't know which Mario game is which.
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May 18, 2013 21:57
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Tae posted:Sports games. Which Nintendo's been pretty good at making.
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May 18, 2013 21:58
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WendigoJohnson posted:They just don't know which Mario game is which. I don't know why Nintendo ever thought it was a good idea to tack their flagship IP onto every shovelware game they produce. It's confusing as hell to the casual gamer.
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May 18, 2013 22:00
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OLIVIAS WILDE RIDER posted:"Most folks" who bought a Wii don't know what a marios or a zeldon is, nor do they care. I don't think Nintendo could possibly expect all of the soccer moms who left their Wiis to gather dust to buy their new system no matter what features it had, but uh Skyward Sword sold like 3.5 million units despite being a pretty mediocre Zelda game and all of the Mario games for the wii sold hilariously well too. Also I'm pretty sure most members of the general public know who Mario is and that he's a Nintendo character so let's not underestimate the intelligence of Nintendo's consumer base too much. I literally have no idea what they were expecting with Nintendoland, NSMBU, and a bunch of old third party titles as a launch lineup. I don't know how you can say a 3D Mario, Zelda, or a Mario Kart along with a decent marketing campaign wouldn't affect sales.
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May 18, 2013 22:00
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A cool drat horse posted:The thing is, I don't really think most folks share your experience. Outside of the part about the 3D Zelda games being OoT remakes being simply not true, my anecdotal experience with Zelda games is that people still get excited for them! I'm excited for the LttP reboot (and I've never played the original) that given that fanfare and sales with each Zelda release, I'm pretty sure it's still a reliably selling franchise that produces good games. The idea they should set it aside because it's gotten "old" is dumb. I've started to think that the success of New Super Mario depends more on the success of the console they are on, rather than the actual merits of the games themselves. If NSMB was as important to Nintendo gamers in general, part of me thinks that the Wii U ought to be doing a lot better than it is right now. The Wii game sold something like 26 MILLION COPIES. Where is that same response for NSMBU? Its the most refined game of the series, the best looking and playing version of the game. Hell, the fact that it is perfectly compatible with the Wii-mote should make the jump to the Wii U easier for owners of the Wii. I don't think NSMB actually has the same appeal anymore. Not as a game you buy separately from a 300-350 dollar system, at any rate. If it was the pack in I think that might drive sales more than Nintendoland. Fun as that title might be, it's clearly not been the silver bullet that gets folks excited to buy the Wii U.
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May 18, 2013 22:00
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computer parts posted:Which Nintendo's been pretty good at making. I dunno I mean outside of Mario Strikers, I felt the rest were fairly average. They need to add more weapons, variables, and poo poo to really mix it up. That's what separated Mario kart from other racing games. That and they're missing the official sports licenses which is a big deal to many many people.
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May 18, 2013 22:02
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NSMBU has something crazy like a 70% attach rate. It's clearly not a system seller, but most people will pick it up when they do get a Wii U because Mario.
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May 18, 2013 22:04
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Crowbear posted:NSMBU has something crazy like a 70% attach rate. It's clearly not a system seller, but most people will pick it up when they do get a Wii U because Mario. Mario has appeal, but NSMBU is also one of the few recognizable games to play on the Wii U. Kind of a default purchase.
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May 18, 2013 22:07
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AngryCaterpillar posted:So they should have two controllers that respond to touch completely differently, for the same console? The thing is, the touchscreen on the Wii U already seems outdated when put next to literally any smartphone or tablet screen. If it lasts 5 years, imagine how out of date it'll be by then. I understand why they wouldn't want to include a better one for cost reasons, but it won't be long before many will look at the Wii U controller, think "Holy poo poo, that touchscreen is awful", and it may influence some peoples' buying decisions. It's not like the Wii where it feels like a new (though imprecise) novel control method--most people already have a much better touchscreen in their pockets.
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May 18, 2013 22:08
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Crowbear posted:NSMBU has something crazy like a 70% attach rate. It's clearly not a system seller, but most people will pick it up when they do get a Wii U because Mario. What else are people with a WiiU going to buy?
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May 18, 2013 22:09
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waffle posted:That's not an ideal situation, but I think it's possible if you include a capacitative stylus. If that's the case, a new controller should be functionally the same as the current controller (except more precise). Yeah, at the least the gamepad should've had two points of contact. As it stands it just seems like outdated tech and limiting compared to tablets and smartphones. The WiiU is not very futureproofed, which is one of my main issues with it.
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May 18, 2013 22:11
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waffle posted:That's not an ideal situation, but I think it's possible if you include a capacitative stylus. If that's the case, a new controller should be functionally the same as the current controller (except more precise). The touch screen also jacks up the price of a second controller to well over 100 bucks. I've used the controller for a few hundred hours with Monster Hunter and I felt that it just wasn't worth it. Any benefit it had is lost when you realize that you have to look down to use it. In games with a lot of poo poo going on you really can't look down. I really felt like they should have just made the Classic Controller Pro for the system and call it a day rather than a bazillion other attachments. It's like the Four Swords multiplayer that requires 4 system link cables and four Gameboy advances, the great expense and needless equipment stuff ruins it. You could have just used the default gamecube controllers and would have been fine.
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May 18, 2013 22:13
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