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Louisgod posted:Yeah, at the least the gamepad should've had two points of contact. As it stands it just seems like outdated tech and limiting compared to tablets and smartphones. The WiiU is not very futureproofed, which is one of my main issues with it. They're right in the middle of a push to get developers to port their mobile apps to the Wii U, and not having multitouch is going to rule out a bunch of them. And yes, a lot of the design decisions they made were very shortsighted. The amount of RAM is the biggest one, to me.
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May 18, 2013 22:16
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NewtGoongrich posted:What else are people with a WiiU going to buy? Lets not be totally unreasonable. Lego City is a whole lot of fun, and Monster Hunter has been pretty much the only thing other than Super Metroid I've played on my system for the last two months. ZombiU appeals to Survival Horror fans/people who aren't sick of zombies right now. If you ONLY HAVE A WII U, Arkham City is a a great game despite framerate issues (its a great game anywhere, really). Everyone should buy Tekken Tag 2 for whatever system they own because Tekken owns. Injustice...sure is a fighting game with DC characters. The problem here is that the games unique to the Wii U apparently have no mass appeal, especially when combined with the price point of the system. For games like Arkham City and Tekken...well those are also out on cheaper hardware that more people already own.
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May 18, 2013 22:16
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computer parts posted:What has mass market appeal these days aside from shooters?
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May 18, 2013 22:18
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OneEightHundred posted:Sandbox, hack-n-slash, racing, fighting... Yeah there's a load of genres that do really well. Take Uncharted for instance, three very solid action adventure games that all did well.
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May 18, 2013 22:19
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fivegears4reverse posted:Lets not be totally unreasonable. Lego City is a whole lot of fun, and Monster Hunter has been pretty much the only thing other than Super Metroid I've played on my system for the last two months. When did those games come out Vs when NSMBU came out?
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May 18, 2013 22:20
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WendigoJohnson posted:Yeah there's a load of genres that do really well. Take Uncharted for instance, three very solid action adventure games that all did well. I often read Japanese forums' comments on the Western game biz, from their perspective the only thing the West makes is shooters, and the occasional fantasy RPG like Skyrim.
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May 18, 2013 22:20
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OLIVIAS WILDE RIDER posted:When did those games come out Vs when NSMBU came out? Monster Hunter came out like 5 months after launch as did Lego City.
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May 18, 2013 22:20
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Crowbear posted:They're right in the middle of a push to get developers to port their mobile apps to the Wii U, and not having multitouch is going to rule out a bunch of them. Yup, the RAM is the main one for me too. Yes, while 2 GB may kiiiiiinda seem good, when you consider the sluggish OS hogs 1 GB at all times, you're pretty limited in what you can do and now you've included an unnecessary hurdle for developers with the intent of saving money. Horribly shortsighted and I feel it's already coming back to bite them in the rear end.
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May 18, 2013 22:20
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Regardless of 3rd party support, I know Monolith's game and Smash are going to be system sellers for me. 
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May 18, 2013 22:23
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OneEightHundred posted:Sandbox, hack-n-slash, racing, fighting... Two of which Nintendo has contributions in and one of which is notoriously expensive?
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May 18, 2013 22:23
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Louisgod posted:Yup, the RAM is the main one for me too. Yes, while 2 GB may kiiiiiinda seem good, when you consider the sluggish OS hogs 1 GB at all times, you're pretty limited in what you can do and now you've included an unnecessary hurdle for developers with the intent of saving money. Horribly shortsighted and I feel it's already coming back to bite them in the rear end. The ram is also amazingly slow compared to the PS3/360. Like, half as fast.
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May 18, 2013 22:23
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OLIVIAS WILDE RIDER posted:The ram is also amazingly slow compared to the PS3/360. Which is strange, hasn't Nintendo included fairly fast ram in their past consoles, or at least made it so the console is efficient with what it has?
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May 18, 2013 22:26
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Lack of Backwards Compatibility is gonna cost them at least one sale (mine, obviously). The Virtual Console might actually be worth a drat if it was half as good as the PSN's PSOne Classics. When I got a new PS3, I had a ton of games I could download instantly at no extra cost. If my Wii tanks then that's it. Those games that I paid real money for are gone forever. Someone earlier said the whole console market may be in trouble - and I could see that. The next generation seems like it's long on horsepower, short on innovation. And the Wii U doesn't even have the horsepower.
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May 18, 2013 22:26
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To reiterate, the VC on the Wii is absolutely fantastic. It's a shame you can't bring it out of the Wii Menu, but a few clicks doesn't really grind my gears (although keeping the Wii Shop and Wii U Shop accounts separate does).
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May 18, 2013 22:44
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Full Battle Rattle posted:Lack of Backwards Compatibility is gonna cost them at least one sale (mine, obviously). The Virtual Console might actually be worth a drat if it was half as good as the PSN's PSOne Classics. When I got a new PS3, I had a ton of games I could download instantly at no extra cost. If my Wii tanks then that's it. Those games that I paid real money for are gone forever. Someone earlier said the whole console market may be in trouble - and I could see that. The next generation seems like it's long on horsepower, short on innovation. And the Wii U doesn't even have the horsepower. What do you mean? The WiiU is fully backward compatible. Likewise, Nintendo will replace the games on a lost system, it's just a more annoying process.
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May 18, 2013 22:52
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That loving Sned posted:Requiring hours for the absolutely colossal patch isn't consumer friendly, and the system is pretty crippled without it. I don't think you could even play Wii games without the day 1 patch. I got a Wii U about 2 weeks ago and that day 1 patch was already installed, by the by. So while it sucked for early adopters, it shouldn't be an issue now.
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May 18, 2013 22:52
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Quest For Glory II posted:That's an excellent write-up. I'd be curious to hear from people who don't own a Wii U and aren't interested in one, and why. And whether they'd ever be interested. I was. Seeing ZombiU really got me interested in it and honestly, had they released more I would've gone for it. I think for most people who have an interest in consoles they were probably weary of the promise the Wii initially showed before being revealed for the crap that it actually was. Had the WiiU came out strong with more original games and less ports that were already a year old by that point AND performed worse than their original counterpart then I think Nintendo would've seen a big boost. But the more time that passed the more I just saw it as a failure. Hell comparing it to the Dreamcast doesn't even work because the Dreamcast had some great games on it - though 3rd party support similarly hosed it, as did Sega riding high and thinking they could do no wrong - Ok so maybe it is comparable to the Dreamcast after all. I would've said the Saturn instead because that was similarly dead in the water. Nintendo almost seized onto a great opportunity because people were desperate for something new. Had they really brought out a 'next gen' console I think they would've cleaned up. Instead they matched specs with current gen consoles and brought it out a year before next gen consoles were due to launch (And Nintendo would've known that, it was the worst kept secret) and then set the worst marketing team in the world on it. Christmas was crazy because I overheard so many shoppers ask about the 'new remote' for their kids Wii. It just all seemed so half assed. It was like Nintendo thought they just had to get something out of the door. I can't see Nintendo making a comeback with a new console. Except: The casual market has no real idea that this exists, so they could still bring out a next gen console and most people would be none the wiser to the giant fuckup that this was.
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May 18, 2013 23:05
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Louisgod posted:Yup, the RAM is the main one for me too. Yes, while 2 GB may kiiiiiinda seem good, when you consider the sluggish OS hogs 1 GB at all times, you're pretty limited in what you can do and now you've included an unnecessary hurdle for developers with the intent of saving money. Horribly shortsighted and I feel it's already coming back to bite them in the rear end. fivegears4reverse posted:Backward Compatibility has never, ever been a deciding factor in the console market. Like ever. That's the primary reason why BC is ultimately treated as an afterthought by all console makers. Sony had to take it out to cut costs. The 360's BC outside of repurchasing the games on their market place is basically poo poo. I think it was a pretty big contributor to the PS2's success too, it put it in a very strong position at launch at a time when the GameCube could have otherwise been a strong competitor. OneEightHundred fucked around with this message at 23:14 on May 18, 2013 |
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May 18, 2013 23:06
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OneEightHundred posted:RAM's not as important as it used to be, modern games almost all do resource stream-ins and if the game can drop and reload assets effectively, then a large working set is a lot less useful. I have no idea what the gently caress they're doing with that OS if they reserved 1GB for it though. The ram is also shared video memory, so unless Nintendo has managed to make magic textures that are stored in the aether, large amounts of fast ram Still Matter. Also for AI, etc.
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May 18, 2013 23:13
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OneEightHundred posted:RAM's not as important as it used to be, modern games almost all do resource stream-ins and if the game can drop and reload assets effectively, then a large working set is a lot less useful. I have no idea what the gently caress they're doing with that OS if they reserved 1GB for it though. For Nintendo specifically though, its probably just an overcompensation. The DS and the Wii had no appreciable OS and it became kind of a pain in the rear end for them in the end. The 3DS dedicates half of its memory map and 1 of its 2 cores to the OS, just like the Wii U.
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May 18, 2013 23:27
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OneEightHundred posted:RAM's not as important as it used to be, modern games almost all do resource stream-ins and if the game can drop and reload assets effectively, then a large working set is a lot less useful.
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May 18, 2013 23:34
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OneEightHundred posted:RAM's not as important as it used to be, modern games almost all do resource stream-ins and if the game can drop and reload assets effectively, then a large working set is a lot less useful. I think you're confusing developers working around limited resources with those resources not being important. Yeah, they can accomplish a lot without much RAM. They could accomplish a lot more with a decent amount, and much more easily.
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May 18, 2013 23:35
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OneEightHundred posted:RAM's not as important as it used to be, modern games almost all do resource stream-ins and if the game can drop and reload assets effectively, then a large working set is a lot less useful. I have no idea what the gently caress they're doing with that OS if they reserved 1GB for it though. The PS2's success came from properly leveraging properties that had jumped ship from Nintendo onto the Playstation platform, as well as improving upon games and franchises that really got their start on the PSOne. Backward Compatibility does not replace a host of good games originally built for a given platform, and it certainly didn't do so for the PS2. I think you forget just how many 'big' games came out for the PS2, and how many genres grew in popularity on the PS2. By the end of the PS2's life, Backward Compatibility wasn't even a concern for most owners, because it had a library all of its own. At best, BC is a desirable feature, but as far as the PS2 is concerned it could never be considered a driving force in sales compared to the following: God of War 1 and 2, Tekken 4, 5, and Tag, Final Fantasy 10, 10-2 and 12, Metal Gear Solid 2 and 3, Persona 3 and 4, Dragon Quest 8, Ace Combat 4, 5, and Zero, Gran Turismo 3 and 4, Grand Theft Auto 3, Vice City, and San Andreas, Kingdom Hearts 1 and 2, Devil May Cry 1 and 3, and the list really does go on. I understand that BC is a really awesome feature, and occasionally I use it myself, but the ultimate success of every console that has ever had BC did not start or result from the existence of BC, and to argue that it did ignores the fact that these consoles also had amazing libraries or mass appeal based on their own merits. Even if we only focus on the early life of the PS2, its impossible to claim that BC is what set it up to completely destroy the GameCube saleswise because now you're failing to take into account the overall power of the PS brand by the time the PS2 was rolling around. Like with Nintendo fans who buy a Nintendo system because they know there will be 'Nintendo Games', PSOne owners picked up a PS2 not just for BC, but because Sony had convinced people with the PSOne that great games were going to come to their future platforms. In one console generation they managed to build a trustworthy name for themselves. The fact that you could still play PSOne games on your PS2 was a bonus feature, not a primary selling point. The reason the GameCube sold less than 22 million consoles worldwide wasn't that it lacked BC. It was that it lacked compelling games for the greater market, a market that Sony was more or less directly responsible for creating due to the success of the PSOne and 2. Likewise, the Wii was not successful because of the existence of BC, it was successful because it was a system that appealed to more than just the 21 million gamers who bought a Gamecube worldwide.
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May 18, 2013 23:38
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Fallom posted:I think you're confusing developers working around limited resources with those resources not being important. Yeah, they can accomplish a lot without much RAM. They could accomplish a lot more with a decent amount, and much more easily. Realistically though, it's probably not going to be enough to make up for being outdone in non-OS RAM by a factor of seven, and it's probably going to result in a pretty heavy visual downgrade for things that work. OneEightHundred fucked around with this message at 00:13 on May 19, 2013 |
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May 19, 2013 00:08
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I think the most important thing when it comes to relative specs is going to be whether PS4 -> Wii U ports are going to be possible. I don't mean parity, because there won't be, I mean possible at all. A big problem of the Wii was that it was so much weaker than the PS3/360 that ports from those systems literally weren't possible. To scale a game down to Wii level, you basically had to create an entirely new game with the same engine and assets (see the terrible port of Dead Rising to the Wii). If ports to the Wii U are possible without jumping through massive hoops like that, I think it will be harder for developers to ignore that install base when crafting next-gen titles. EDIT: In a larger sense I'm not worried about Nintendo. Even if they don't maintain the massive casual base they had last generation, their fallback angle of "Hey, it's way cheaper than the other systems and you're not gonna get Smash Bros anywhere else," is no less powerful. It's probably not gonna sell Wii numbers, but I don't see it putting them out of business either. At worst this is Gamecube: Part II. Rocketlex fucked around with this message at 00:18 on May 19, 2013 |
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May 19, 2013 00:12
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fivegears4reverse posted:Backward Compatibility has never, ever been a deciding factor in the console market. Like ever. That's the primary reason why BC is ultimately treated as an afterthought by all console makers. Sony had to take it out to cut costs. The 360's BC outside of repurchasing the games on their market place is basically poo poo. The Wii's success didn't come from being able to keep playing GameCube games or its joke of a Virtual Console, it came from appealing to people who weren't into videogames in the first place. I agree, since backwards compatibility is only essential for handheld devices. You're likely to only carry one handheld with you at a time, so having access to its previous iteration's games is very important, especially at the start of its life when there are very few games available. I was annoyed that the GBA cartridge slot wasn't included in the DSi, since it still had amazing games that I enjoyed playing, like Metroid and Mother 3. There are other benefits to having backwards compatibility on handhelds compared to using the original device. The Vita lets you play PSP and PSOne games on its OLED screen, and since it's exactly 4X the PSP's resolution, the scaling is very good. The second analogue stick support makes some games like MGS Peace Walker much more enjoyable. The 3DS has the benefit of letting you use the analogue pad as a replacement for the D-pad, which can be more comfortable for certain games. However, there's not much you'd gain from playing PS3 and Xbox 360 games on the next hardware, since they already support wireless controllers and HDMI. Unless you wanted to sell them off, the only thing you'd get is a little more space under the TV. Samurai Sanders posted:To me, Uncharted is as much a shooter as Call of Duty is. I wonder what they think of games like Journey and LittleBigPlanet, or even western-developed Nintendo titles like Metroid Prime and Donkey Kong Country. That Fucking Sned fucked around with this message at 00:28 on May 19, 2013 |
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May 19, 2013 00:17
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Samurai Sanders posted:I often read Japanese forums' comments on the Western game biz, from their perspective the only thing the West makes is shooters, and the occasional fantasy RPG like Skyrim. I'd put as much stock into those forum comments as I would for people on these forums who say all Japanese games feature underaged women in compromising positions. In the real world, it turns out that there are pretty awesome games being developed everywhere across a variety of genres, but its a lot easier to circlejerk about how (x) only produces (y). It's kinda like how some folks say "Nintendo only makes kid games", ignoring or discounting anything that doesn't fit their criticism. fivegears4reverse fucked around with this message at 00:48 on May 19, 2013 |
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May 19, 2013 00:44
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That loving Sned posted:I wonder what they think of games like Journey and LittleBigPlanet, or even western-developed Nintendo titles like Metroid Prime and Donkey Kong Country. fivegears4reverse posted:I'd put as much stock into those forum comments as I would for people on these forums who say all Japanese games feature underaged women in compromising positions. In the real world, it turns out that there are pretty awesome games being developed everywhere across a variety of genres, but its a lot easier to circlejerk about how (x) only produces (y). Samurai Sanders fucked around with this message at 00:54 on May 19, 2013 |
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May 19, 2013 00:48
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computer parts posted:What has mass market appeal these days aside from shooters? Its Nintendo, they have some of the most amazingly talented people with them, I'm sure they could come up with something amazing in any genre.
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May 19, 2013 00:49
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I would think Japanese perceptions of the Western game market are also a matter of what gets localized and what doesn't. For that matter, what gets a good localization and what doesn't. AAA first-person shooter games are probably some of the easiest games to localize, since they have so little important dialogue to translate. The huge, huge, huge indie game scene in the west is likely completely unknown to the average Japanese gamer. I can see how their view of the Western market might seem a bit...limited. I always find international issues of perception like this really fascinating.
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May 19, 2013 00:53
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Rocketlex posted:I would think Japanese perceptions of the Western game market are also a matter of what gets localized and what doesn't. For that matter, what gets a good localization and what doesn't. AAA first-person shooter games are probably some of the easiest games to localize, since they have so little important dialogue to translate. And of course they don't get much of our indie scene so much over there (or vice versa), it's called an indie scene for a reason. That's not what I am talking about.
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May 19, 2013 01:02
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Samurai Sanders posted:Naw, almost all medium and big budget Western games get a release over there (though often without any advertising really), though the reverse isn't necessarily true anymore. Get released sure, but how much do they sell? My impression was that Japanese gamers really don't give a poo poo about western games anyway.
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May 19, 2013 01:30
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zarron posted:Get released sure, but how much do they sell? My impression was that Japanese gamers really don't give a poo poo about western games anyway.
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May 19, 2013 01:34
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Hacker News is talking about the EA developer's Twitter comments, and there are a few interesting posts like this one: 'I interviewed for a job with them (Nintendo of America), and also did some freelance work over the past couple of years, and I got the feeling whatever they may have been in the past, they currently run on a fairly bureaucratic model, and are not the kind of place that inspires or rewards innovation and creativity. They had video games in the lobby, but the recruiter warned me "Don't play them!" She told me a previous candidate she took there got a job, but was later fired for playing a video game on company time.'
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May 19, 2013 01:39
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Alteisen posted:Its Nintendo, they have some of the most amazingly talented people with them, I'm sure they could come up with something amazing in any genre. In other words, "Nintendo needs to make a shooter"?
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May 19, 2013 01:48
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computer parts posted:In other words, "Nintendo needs to make a shooter"? Miyamoto's said in interviews that he'd love to make a first-person Zelda game if he felt he could get away with it. He loves first-person games, but the rest of the Japanese market doesn't.
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May 19, 2013 01:49
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Samurai Sanders posted:Yeah, they don't, and the reason I am usually given is that they are all about old (by their perception) men and women shooting at each other in a modern setting, when most Japanese customers want cute girls and boys fighting monsters with magic swords in a fantasy setting. Old men and women shooting each other? You mean Grandpa Shooters! 
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May 19, 2013 01:51
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Toady posted:She told me a previous candidate she took there got a job, but was later fired for playing a video game on company time.' This kind of outrage would have never happened at Ion Storm. 
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May 19, 2013 01:52
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WendigoJohnson posted:Old men and women shooting each other? Western games tend to have much, much older characters. I don't know why the Japanese market is so griped by supple young boys and girls.
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May 19, 2013 01:54
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Toady posted:Hacker News is talking about the EA developer's Twitter comments, and there are a few interesting posts like this one: In other words they are a typical Japanese company.
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