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Samurai Sanders posted:I've heard the argument that what is called a "gimmick" is just an innovation that in retrospect didn't take off, but I still think you can make a distinction before the fact, based on an analysis of whether it really makes games better to play, enough to justify its extra cost and complexity. I don't think hardly anything Nintendo has done recently fulfills that condition. So you...don't think Nintendoland plays better for having the controller screen?
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May 19, 2013 03:18
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Rocketlex posted:So you...don't think Nintendoland plays better for having the controller screen? Anyway, it's mostly used for the same kinds of things as the second screen on the DS/3DS, right? That didn't do anything for me either, the minor convenience it offered by having some kind of menu or something that you could see without hitting start didn't even come close to justifying the extra cost and complexity of having a second screen.
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May 19, 2013 03:21
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Personally, I like to call it "Wii U-Gate". I figure that name calls to mind a certain other scandal you might remember. A certain blunder w/r/t foresight that ended a dynasty similar to Nintendo and Sega. Watergate
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May 19, 2013 03:26
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I cheat to win posted:Watergate Watergate-gate Samurai Sanders posted:I haven't played it but Wikipedia says it's a minigame compilation like Wii Sports? So, not exactly a system mover then. The screen utilized properly, ala NintendoLand/ZombieU/Rayman, changes the gameplay. Just wait til you try it.
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May 19, 2013 03:34
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bushisms.txt posted:The screen utilized properly, ala NintendoLand/ZombieU/Rayman, changes the gameplay. Just wait til you try it. Honestly, it sounds like the same kind of stuff I saw in early DS games, before they realized they didn't need to use hardware gimmicks to make good games for that platform.
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May 19, 2013 03:50
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Rocketlex posted:So you...don't think Nintendoland plays better for having the controller screen? I think the real problem with Nintendoland is that it exists to help teach gamers about the Gamepad, and the Gamepad itself is something only a portion of the early adopters of the system really give a poo poo about. Even games that make clever use of the Pad, like ZombiU and Rayman, clearly haven't done enough to show why this "new" method of playing videogames is worth the money right now, because the system's sales are in the toilet.
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May 19, 2013 03:58
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OLIVIAS WILDE RIDER posted:The world was going to end tomorrow but Nintendo pushed it back until November. Speaking of advertising, are they out of their goddamned minds?
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May 19, 2013 04:11
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Midee posted:Speaking of advertising, are they out of their goddamned minds?
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May 19, 2013 04:15
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Runaway Five posted:One of Ocarina of Time's original ideas was to be a first person view for Link doing swordplay. An animator had already gone through the trouble of making a cool 3D Model of Link, and was then told they were going to try a first person view. He really wanted to use his model as much as possible (Link looked so cool!) so they ended up going with 3rd person Link when he uses his sword. Or touchscreen only for the DS zelda titles. Or the waggle crap in the DKCR.
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May 19, 2013 04:21
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Samurai Sanders posted:I've seen this before but I don't understand why it is an issue. Youtube is already ad-driven, why does it matter so much if it's Nintendo ads when watching Nintendo content? It's more that the ad revenue doesn't go to the channel owner, it goes entirely to the copyright owner. Some LPers are understandably pretty upset, especially the more notable LPers who put in a lot of effort into their LPs. There's nothing actually WRONG with Nintendo doing this, its totally legal and understandable even, but it does put them at odds with a community that was more or less capable of doing free advertising of Nintendo products. At the same time, not all LPers are out to represent Nintendo's interests. Its a pretty weird situation, and there are assholes on all sides of the issue.
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May 19, 2013 04:23
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Samurai Sanders posted:I've seen this before but I don't understand why it is an issue. Youtube is already ad-driven, why does it matter so much if it's Nintendo ads when watching Nintendo content? You're misunderstanding it. Previously, the person posting the video (the LPer) got the ad revenue from Youtube for their videos. Not a huge deal, but a nice little bonus for people who actually bother making LP videos. Now, Nintendo is stepping in and claiming all ad revenue from LP videos for their games. While certainly within their rights, it's a bit of a dick move considering that such revenue will be negligible toward their bottom line, and disincentivises LP makers from doing anything Nintendo-related. Which, considering a lot of people don't even know their new console exists or is a wholly new console, is probably not the best idea.
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May 19, 2013 04:25
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Oh okay, I didn't realize ad revenue went to the people uploading, I thought it all went to Youtube. Any idea how Sony is going to handle that, since it's an integral part of the PS4?
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May 19, 2013 04:25
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Samurai Sanders posted:I've seen this before but I don't understand why it is an issue. Youtube is already ad-driven, why does it matter so much if it's Nintendo ads when watching Nintendo content? - LPs are pretty much free advertising for their games - any "revenue" they would make off of it would be laughably small - it makes them look like a bunch of assholes
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May 19, 2013 04:25
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Samurai Sanders posted:I've seen this before but I don't understand why it is an issue. Youtube is already ad-driven, why does it matter so much if it's Nintendo ads when watching Nintendo content? The thing is Nintendo is totally in the right. They are fully entitled to the ad revenue money from those videos since they are using their games and showing footage from their games. The problem is, Nintendo makes assloads of money, and the amount the youtubers are getting from these LPs isn't even comparable. It just kind of seems like a dick move for a small amount of money for what is essentially free advertising (you can argue that Nintendo doesn't really need someone to do free advertising for them I guess but I don't believe that) and I think from a PR perspective it's just kind of petty.
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May 19, 2013 04:27
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Samurai Sanders posted:Any idea how Sony is going to handle that, since it's an integral part of the PS4? They haven't officially said anything, but considering the initial positive reaction to the feature and the resultant backlash from Nintendo's decision, hopefully they'll take notice and not do anything stupid. Microsoft, that's anyone's guess.
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May 19, 2013 04:28
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Yeah I don't understand what their angle is. Just another example of Nintendo being out of touch I guess, I wouldn't have thought the ad revenue from LPs on Youtube would be anything more than a drop in the ocean to them, it certainly doesn't seem to be worth the negative PR they get from it. I doubt they thought about it that hard though, seems to just be a case of Nintendo execs realising people are making money on youtube off their stuff and moving in to take their cut. They're not going to have any consequences for doing it of course, it's just indicative of why Nintendo are falling further behind, they don't exactly have their finger on the pulse of the market, if the whole 'friend code' thing wasn't a big enough tip off.
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May 19, 2013 04:32
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Macaluso posted:Nintendo makes assloads of money Still, they should be chalking up the money they aren't making from advertising the videos as an advertising expense in and of itself (and far more effective I think) and call it good. edit: vvv oh yeah, forgot about that part. Samurai Sanders fucked around with this message at 04:45 on May 19, 2013 |
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May 19, 2013 04:34
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It's been pretty much proven that if you let something like your entire game or movie be aired on the internet without you pursuing any kind of legal action for long enough, most courts will side against you if you change your mind way down the road. This is why Disney is crazy aggressive about that kind of thing, they profit huge off tight control of their IPs and losing any kind of legal ability to enforce that control would affect their entire business model, and the story is the same with Nintendo. As far as I know Nintendo isn't forcing anyone to run ads, they're just stopping people who do from profiting, which is basically the least aggressive thing they can do while retaining that legal control.
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May 19, 2013 04:38
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Samurai Sanders posted:Uh...not recently they don't, hence the topic of this discussion. Right. It still doesn't make this look particularly good, especially when the most common defense of Nintendo's decisions lately is that they have "a lot" of money in their warchest, built up from years and years and years of continuous operational profits, so they can more than easily survive the Wii U being the Wii U. That's part of why the comparison of the Wii U to the Dreamcast is silly. The Dreamcast was Sega's hail mary that was destined to never succeed (  ). Considering that every single Nintendo console from the NES on was seeing fewer and fewer sales in the face of growing competition, culminating in the Gamecube being one of the lowest selling consoles Nintendo ever produced, I'd say the Wii was closer to the Dreamcast...except it actually worked out and Nintendo became super relevant again to game publishers and developers for about five years.I mean, compared to how much money companies like Nintendo and Sony are dealing with in terms of operating profits and losses, what some asshat on Youtube makes from ad-revenue is less than pennies on the dollar to them.
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May 19, 2013 04:44
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Samurai Sanders posted:Uh...not recently they don't, hence the topic of this discussion. They are making assloads of money in comparison
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May 19, 2013 04:47
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Macaluso posted:They are making assloads of money in comparison edit: no wait that was 2011, 2012's loss was only 366 million. Samurai Sanders fucked around with this message at 04:54 on May 19, 2013 |
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May 19, 2013 04:49
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I said come in! posted:For me, Nintendo needs to do original, new, exciting I.P.'s. I'm tired of seeing the same games from them over and over again, with nothing new happening. Right now all of the games they have coming out or are in development, are sequels or remakes of classic SNES games. Even though Zelda: A Link to the Past is one of my favorite Nintendo games, I couldn't have been more underwhelmed if I tried at the announcement of the remastered version for the 3DS. I know Nintendo can do better then this. This is from a couple pages back but I think it's important to bring up that Nintendo does actually release a decent number of original games, but some don't come to the US or at least needed a huge kick to do so: Xenoblade, Denpa Men, Crashmo, Western Dixon, Steel Rider, Pandora's Tower, Ouendan.. and others I can't think of. You're just not paying attention.
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May 19, 2013 04:54
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WendigoJohnson posted:I dunno every single big release pretty much gets some form of spoken dialogue, you could say the same thing about Metal gear Solid. But the voice actors/actresses in Metal gear made the game more memorable so it could be argued that it made the game more appealing and hence created more sales. Metal Gear is an inherently story driven game. There is next to no one who would have bought Mario because of "witty dialog" that hasn't already bought a copy.
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May 19, 2013 04:57
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Samurai Sanders posted:They suffered a 5.32 billion dollar loss in 2012. To be fair, for all of Sony's success in gaming the company as a whole has done a LOT worse than that and they've never stopped being frontrunners, despite being downright aggressively anti-consumer more often than not across every division.
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May 19, 2013 04:58
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Louisgod posted:This is from a couple pages back but I think it's important to bring up that Nintendo does actually release a decent number of original games, but some don't come to the US or at least needed a huge kick to do so: Xenoblade, Denpa Men, Crashmo, Western Dixon, Steel Rider, Pandora's Tower, Ouendan.. and others I can't think of. You're just not paying attention. That's also kind of a problem too, they don't give the west enough of their Japan-centric stuff. Xenoblade was one of the best releases on the Wii but it got a real limited release in America. Like they should be using the Digital services to deliver Japanese stuff like that. Hell Sony did that with Tokyo Jungle and that took minimal effort and Nintendo has a TON a literal TON of real good Japanese Exclusive games that just never made it to America. Hell they were never even given a chance as a test to see if they would take on US shores. It was also why for years we never got Fire Emblem until the Gameboy Advance. They tend to be extremely conservative when it comes to western audiences and really take almost next to no chances with them as far as games go. Mind you Nintendo was also the company that had a franchise of Love Motels way back when. It's not like they've always been this way, they used to be into some really weird businesses and the people who OK'd it later went on to do the games and consoles they released. The Taint Reaper fucked around with this message at 05:12 on May 19, 2013 |
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May 19, 2013 05:00
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Louisgod posted:This is from a couple pages back but I think it's important to bring up that Nintendo does actually release a decent number of original games, but some don't come to the US or at least needed a huge kick to do so: Xenoblade, Denpa Men, Crashmo, Western Dixon, Steel Rider, Pandora's Tower, Ouendan.. and others I can't think of. You're just not paying attention. If i'm not seeing them, that's Nintendo's problem, not mine.
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May 19, 2013 05:03
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Utgardaloki posted:To be fair, for all of Sony's success in gaming the company as a whole has done a LOT worse than that and they've never stopped being frontrunners, despite being downright aggressively anti-consumer more often than not across every division. However, a lot of that is now doing awful, while the game biz is apparently doing ok for them, so I guess nothing to say about that really. Nintendo is in very good company, almost no Japanese game publishers are in the black these days, unless they are pumping out browser/social games like crazy.
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May 19, 2013 05:06
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Samurai Sanders posted:Sony has a huge business outside of games though. Yeah, that's what I meant. Sony in general isn't as wildly successful as it was in it's early days and a lot of the time it was floated by the gaming division.
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May 19, 2013 05:13
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Miyamoto has been fairly open about the fact that these days he's trying to groom Nintendo's devs to be able to function without him, even if the WiiU doesn't kill them I have no idea what they're going to do once Myamoto retires (or, god forbid, dies); there would be something oddly poetic about Nintendo dying with him.
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May 19, 2013 05:15
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Midee posted:- LPs are pretty much free advertising for their games -Nintendo has a marketing department and there's no data proving that what works for Indie devs works for Nintendo, which typically releases the same sorta games over and over, and people have already made up their mind whether to get them or not. -Arguably. -"Waaah, why can't I make money off your IP without your permission! I'm gonna tell everyone on the Internet that makes you big jerks and never put the entirety of your games up on Youtube again!" People keep making this "free advertising" claim and have yet to bring up a single piece of relevant data to back it up. It's really quite frustrating to hear, over and over again, in some sort of weird, old wives tale that presumes Nintendo needs Heroic Youtube Personalities like PewDiePie to sell their product. quote:Yeah I don't understand what their angle is. Just another example of Nintendo being out of touch I guess, I wouldn't have thought the ad revenue from LPs on Youtube would be anything more than a drop in the ocean to them, it certainly doesn't seem to be worth the negative PR they get from it. I doubt they thought about it that hard though, seems to just be a case of Nintendo execs realising people are making money on youtube off their stuff and moving in to take their cut. They're not going to have any consequences for doing it of course, it's just indicative of why Nintendo are falling further behind, they don't exactly have their finger on the pulse of the market, if the whole 'friend code' thing wasn't a big enough tip off. The actual effect on their bottom line for this negative PR will be as people have the attention spans of goldfish when it comes to videogame companies on the Internet.
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May 19, 2013 05:18
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I said come in! posted:If i'm not seeing them, that's Nintendo's problem, not mine. Cool, thanks. My point is that they are releasing original IPs that are new and exciting, which is the point you brought up. Also, as an aside, the Link to the Past sequel on the 3DS is a completely standalone game that just takes place in the same world and isn't remastered. While you can feign a little ignorance due to Nintendo's inability to market their poo poo at least remotely adequately, that doesn't mean they aren't releasing new poo poo. They just blooooow at messaging though occasionally get lucky when the quality of the game propels it's popularity (Pushmo).
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May 19, 2013 05:20
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Jefferoo posted:People keep making this "free advertising" claim and have yet to bring up a single piece of relevant data to back it up. It's really quite frustrating to hear, over and over again, in some sort of weird, old wives tale that presumes Nintendo needs Heroic Youtube Personalities like PewDiePie to sell their product. Not every LP'er is a piece of poo poo like PewDiePie. There's countless people on SA alone who have bought games simply because an LP convinced them the game is worth a purchase. I've got to imagine that there's similar cases with Youtube LP'ers producing the same effect.
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May 19, 2013 05:30
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I like video games, but I love Nintendo games. I bought way more games for the Wii than I did for the PS3, and a vast majority of them were published by Nintendo. I buy every Nintendo console because I grew up on Nintendo games and I don't want to miss out on the latest Mario or Zelda. However, I think this will be the last time I buy a Nintendo console when it comes out. If they do manage to release another, I think I'll wait a few years until there are a handful of games to pick up so it doesn't just sit there collecting dust for months on end. Part of me enjoys the new and different things that Nintendo tries. It can make games more fun or interesting when used properly. Sadly, these innovations are being paired with less capable machines than the ones they are competing against. The attachment rate suffers and developers don't feel the need to put extra effort into a port to support the Wii U specific features on top of the standard game. The fact that Nintendo can't wise up and create a proper network infrastructure with proper accounts (with purchases tied to them) is ridiculous. Are they just so stubborn of a company that they don't think they could at least do what their competitors were doing six years ago, let alone what they are doing today? The Wii U also can't play blu-rays, it doesn't have Dolby Digital support, etc. I use my PS3 for games and movies (blu-ray and Netflix). I like the idea of a single box to go to for media. I don't want to have to give up on Nintendo, but I think going forward they are going to be an afterthought for me. The one I pick up later in a generation to play the must have Nintendo games and that's it.
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May 19, 2013 05:32
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Jefferoo posted:-Nintendo has a marketing department and there's no data proving that what works for Indie devs works for Nintendo, which typically releases the same sorta games over and over, and people have already made up their mind whether to get them or not. edit: whatever, I'm not saying billymc should be the next EVP of Nintendo sales and marketting, but this is the equivalent of a mustache-twirling villain taking candy from a baby. They can't afford any hits to their public image now, so why even bother? Midee fucked around with this message at 05:37 on May 19, 2013 |
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May 19, 2013 05:34
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TaurusOxford posted:Not every LP'er is a piece of poo poo like PewDiePie. There's countless people on SA alone who have bought games simply because an LP convinced them the game is worth a purchase. I've got to imagine that there's similar cases with Youtube LP'ers producing the same effect. Emphasis on imagine. It's all guesswork and hyperbole and super vague assumptions that are supposed to make Nintendo out to be some sort of bad guy. Nintendo isn't obligated, or hell, even "bad" or "out of touch" for not wanting unrelated individuals to profit off of their creative works by putting the entirety of them up on Youtube in Let's Play form.
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May 19, 2013 05:37
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Jefferoo posted:Emphasis on imagine. It's all guesswork and hyperbole and super vague assumptions that are supposed to make Nintendo out to be some sort of bad guy. Nintendo isn't obligated, or hell, even "bad" or "out of touch" for not wanting unrelated individuals to profit off of their creative works by putting the entirety of them up on Youtube in Let's Play form. The last thing Nintendo wants to be doing is alienating people who actually buy their console/games. You don't seem to understand how far good will goes towards keeping a rabid, consuming fanbase.
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May 19, 2013 05:39
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It sounds more like they are taking their existing fans for granted and only concerning themselves with bringing in new customers. Which is, of course, at odds with the design decisions for the WiiU.
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May 19, 2013 05:40
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OLIVIAS WILDE RIDER posted:The last thing Nintendo wants to be doing is alienating people who actually buy their console/games.  People on the internet have a terrible attention span.
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May 19, 2013 05:43
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The point is that Nintendo is on thin ice if not already sinking with the core gamer. What the gently caress do they benefit from pissing off a shitload of Youtube LP'ers who are making a few measly dollars by making videos of their games? It's just adding more fuel to the fire. The PS4 is practically coming with a Let's Play button on its loving controller, while Nintendo says "gently caress you" once again to its ever-dwindling fanbase.
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May 19, 2013 05:43
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Jefferoo posted:Emphasis on imagine. It's all guesswork and hyperbole and super vague assumptions that are supposed to make Nintendo out to be some sort of bad guy. Nintendo isn't obligated, or hell, even "bad" or "out of touch" for not wanting unrelated individuals to profit off of their creative works by putting the entirety of them up on Youtube in Let's Play form. The value of "free advertising" from LPers is certainly up for debate, and Nintendo may not need it despite the hilarious trainwreck that is their current marketing for the Wii U. They need people like you defending their decisions even less.
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May 19, 2013 05:44
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