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And V'Ger has already been encountered in this alternate universe. By Nero.
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May 20, 2013 06:29
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It's a very minor thing, but did anyone else feel that the set design of the Vengeance's bridge was very mid 90's Trek? The flashing panels behind Robocop in particular looked like something straight out of an episode of DS9. Even the uniforms the Section 31 guys wore had an almost TV-quality to them. It looked cheesy as hell, but in a good way. Contrasted nicely with the more modernized glass screen display theme of the Enterprise's bridge.
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May 20, 2013 06:30
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I had fun with the movie, but something fell a little flat with me after one of my predictions kind of fell flat. When Admiral Marcus was clearly psyched up about the upcoming Klingon war and gave Kirk the torpedoes that contained an unknown substance, I fully expected them to contain red matter to build on the previous movie. If he's so worried about the war, an apocalyptic weapon like that would have won the war before it began.
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May 20, 2013 06:42
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I think the movie drops the ball hard on its stated moral questions in relation to its not so subtle War on Terror commentary: why exactly was it wrong to blow Harrison up from the other solar system? Of course for anyone with a brain a phrase like "drone strike with a surgical precision" in real world should put up a giant sceptical warning. But at the same time too many people believe in a clean war, so the very idea needs more criticism in the movie than just some angry protests from a comic relief and an emotionless buzzkill. Klingons, who are here a substitute for every nation that was harmed by the devotees of "dicks, pussies and assholes" ideology, are presented as monsters. They don't really respect the "honor" that Uhura speaks of and they try to gut Uhura without much discussion so that we don't feel bad for the faceless stormtroopers when Indian Superhuman Napoleon fries them with that totally sweet laser cannon from Akira. Why not bomb them all indeed?
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May 20, 2013 07:39
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I enjoyed the living hell out of this movie. That said, once it was revealed who Harrison actually was, and therefore became pretty obvious that someone was going to scream someone else's name eventually, I found myself really hoping that Kirk was going to thwart Kahn's plans and get under his skin enough that Kahn would yell KIRRRRRRRRRKKKKK!!!.
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May 20, 2013 07:55
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I knew that the final quarter's Kirk/Spock death inversion was coming from the moment that Scott talked about the reactor being out of alignment and there being no way to fix it, but goddamnit, I still bawled like a baby while Kirk did his self-sacrifice thing. I also loved the hell out of the tribbles, the reference to the "Mudd incident", and Sulu liking the captain's chair. I got so into the corniness of it that during the final scene, when a crewmember asked "where to?", I whispered to myself, "First star on the right, straight on 'til morning"
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May 20, 2013 07:57
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I really enjoyed this movie. Things I liked: (I'm just going to put all of it in spoiler text so I don't have to go in and put in a million different tags in various places) It did a really great job of putting the characters into dangerous situations and I couldn't wait to see how they got out of them, and it was usually quite satisfying. (Except Kirk dying, it was obvious that he was going to get revived by Khan's blood.) I liked how pretty much every character got a moment to shine and save the day in their own way. It's funny, towards the end of the film I remember watching Kirk and Scotty running around and I thought to myself "You know, it's kind of cool that every major character got a chance to save the day in some fashion...well, except Chekov." And then literally less than a minute after I had that specific thought, Chekov appears and saves the two of them. Also each character got plenty of screentime and I liked a lot of them. I especially liked how much focus we got on Scotty, it was cool that he was the one running around with Kirk and Khan at the end. Although Kirk and Spock were obviously the most important characters it really worked well as an ensemble film. Everyone talks about how great Quinto is as Spock, but I have to say (and I said this after the first film as well) honestly I think the reason the movies work so well is how good Chris Pine is. The films wouldn't work nearly as well if he wasn't so likable and entertaining onscreen. REALLY liked the reveal that the Admiral guy was a villain, and was the one with the grandiose plan. Khan was just a dude who wanted his crew back. When the Admiral came to confront them that was one of the major "oh S***, how are they going to get out of this?" moments. The head of Starfleet is trying to kill them, even if they make it back they're going to be branded as traitors. Spock's "KHAAAAN!" was a little cheesy, especially since its in reference to a scene that has notoriously became mostly known an internet meme, but it caught me off guard (especially Spock being the one to say it) so I actually kind of liked it. It had a purpose, too, it was showing him losing control of his emotions. Things I didn't like: I wasn't super upset by the Kirk death thing and I thought it was kind of cool as an homage to Wrath of Khan, but that being said I just kept thinking to myself, "Get this over with already, we all know Khan's blood is going to revive him" and I got pretty impatient with it. Uhura in general, especially her completely unnecessary relationship with Spock. What's the point of all that? At least there wasn't a love triangle this time and nothing between her and Kirk is ever mentioned or hinted at, which is good. But how on earth could she even be in a relationship with Spock at all since he never shows emotions? She gets mad at him for being emotionless and stuff, but, um, didn't you know that going into it? Why does Alice Eve's father have an American accent and she has a British one? That was odd. Did they really want those two actors so bad (and didn't want either of them to fake an accent) that they were willing to ignore this weird discrepancy? There are millions of actors who could have fulfilled either role, they're both pretty much replacement-level actors. This is SUPER nitpicky, but at one point someone says that the civilization from the beginning of the movie "hasn't even invented the wheel," (and maybe that was an exaggeration but it seemed like it was stated as fact) but they had a pretty impressive looking pyramid building built which would almost certainly require the use of the wheel (and other more complicated rudimentary technologies, like pulleys).
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May 20, 2013 08:03
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bbf2 posted:This is SUPER nitpicky, but at one point someone says that the civilization from the beginning of the movie "hasn't even invented the wheel," (and maybe that was an exaggeration but it seemed like it was stated as fact) but they had a pretty impressive looking pyramid building built which would almost certainly require the use of the wheel (and other more complicated rudimentary technologies, like pulleys). Barely invented the wheel.
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May 20, 2013 08:41
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I do how like the movie kinda reverses things from Wrath of Khan. Besides all the obvious switches between Kirk and Spock, the movie starts with Kirk seeking revenge against Khan (although not knowing it's Khan), whereas WoK is about Khan's revenge against Kirk. Plus Khan and Kirk teaming up, and the ultimate sacrifice not being the end of the film. Although that felt more like if they had ended it there Khan wasn't really all that utilized as a villain until that point. I don't really understand what his plan was after he teleported to the Klingon planet. I guess it was an emergency thing and he didn't necessarily expect Kirk to interfere so well. Or something. I guess he's pretty confident in his ability to infiltrate Earth since he walks off the ship and seems to be just trying to disappear into the crowd. Or something. Khan's motives are fine, and it's hard to match WoK when those characters had history and these didn't. But some of his actions don't hold to scrutiny. If that's important to your watching of the film.
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May 20, 2013 08:46
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bbf2 posted:
Pike actually says "They've barely even invented the wheel" Plus there's a good shot of the Pyramid right before it gets trashed, and you can see it's some sort of non fully enclosed rickety looking woven together thing that seems to be built from giant wicker.
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May 20, 2013 08:48
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For everyone who keeps asking "why would he teleport to Kronos?" Think about it this way: if you wanted to hide from the US, wouldn't you go into some country with piss poor US diplomatic relations, assuming there's pretty much zero risk of the US chasing you because it could spark a major loving war/retaliation/diplomatic nightmare? And it all went according to plan for Khan, and tits up Kirk, but Khan had to abandon this plan A and saved them when he figured out the torpedo thing from Sulu's message.
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May 20, 2013 09:53
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I saw it dubbed in 3D, and I'll try and watch it in English and 2D again if possible. That'd be the first time I've seen a movie in cinema twice. TAKE THAT, HATERSfatherboxx posted:I think the movie drops the ball hard on its stated moral questions in relation to its not so subtle War on Terror commentary: why exactly was it wrong to blow Harrison up from the other solar system? Of course for anyone with a brain a phrase like "drone strike with a surgical precision" in real world should put up a giant sceptical warning. But at the same time too many people believe in a clean war, so the very idea needs more criticism in the movie than just some angry protests from a comic relief and an emotionless buzzkill. You can question how convincing it is here, but I think the movie is very much trying to make the point that it's bad to blindly follow orders, or to lynch people instead of granting them due process. It's of course okay with the kidnapping of criminals hiding in other sovereign nations. Cingulate fucked around with this message at 10:53 on May 20, 2013 |
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May 20, 2013 10:46
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bullet3 posted:Edit: I come down harsh because I expect better of Star Trek. This ended up being a merely average movie when it could've been great. Why would you expect better from Star Trek? The Franchise was so badly mutilated that the only way to keep doing anything with it was a reboot. I went in to this movie the same way I'm going to go into the Disney Star Wars reboot, expecting nothing and hoping I might be pleasantly surprised. Let's face it, Star Trek and Star Wars have churned out so much horrible, cash grabbing poo poo over the past fifteen years that they've nearly killed their own genre.
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May 20, 2013 10:55
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Did a few shots look like they were stretched into WideTorsoVision to anybody? Karl Urban's and Chris Pine's heads seemed oddly wide a few times.
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May 20, 2013 11:05
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I want to be spoiled on this one little detail: does Ensign Cupcake reappear?
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May 20, 2013 13:15
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Baron Bifford posted:I want to be spoiled on this one little detail: does Ensign Cupcake reappear? Yes
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May 20, 2013 13:16
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Presto posted:This wouldn't have worked because the point of the scene was that Spock had to descend... into darkness ( It would have worked better if Spock starts to slowly lose his poo poo as/after Kirk dies. By the time they spot Khan still alive and on the ground he's basically growling. Spock beams down, looks over, spots Khan, -then- we get the 'KHAAAAN!' shout as the last of his control slips, proceed to chase scene and fight.
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May 20, 2013 13:25
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). Earlier, Spock had to talk Kirk out of just killing Harrison and bring him to trial instead. After Kirk dies, Spock is feeling what Kirk felt after Pike died, namely: I'm going to kill the son of a bitch that did this.
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It was kinda nice that not only is the antagonism gone but Kirk picked him for backup on the super-dangerous mission.
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May 20, 2013 13:33
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A GLISTENING HODOR posted:For everyone who keeps asking "why would he teleport to Kronos?" Think about it this way: if you wanted to hide from the US, wouldn't you go into some country with piss poor US diplomatic relations, assuming there's pretty much zero risk of the US chasing you because it could spark a major loving war/retaliation/diplomatic nightmare? The Klingon government has not had the opportunity to say "sure, go ahead and take him, we don't care" since Kirk has not said "would you kindly hand over John Harrison?" Instead, Kirk & co. end up meeting with some random border patrol. The patrol probably doesn't even have the authority to hand over a person on their homeworld to (from their perspective) some people who say they would like him. And their perspective is this: "Why should I let random people take a random person that I don't even know about? It's not like these people are acting in any kind of official capacity since they aren't with Starfleet. Hell, I haven't even seen this random person, maybe the people on this ship are full of poo poo and are up to no good. Not on my planet they aren't!" In any case, if the Klingon government found Khan, there's a good chance they'd kill him for sneaking over the border. That's not really a lesson on how you should treat terrorists, since the Klingons are a sovereign government and can do whatever they like, and aren't killing him for the crimes Khan committed on Earth anyway.
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May 20, 2013 14:20
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Maybe I'm thinking aloud, but I can't help but the think the lack of merchandising might hurt this film. I'm pretty sure Playmates blew it last time around by making 3 different sizes of action figures, 0 playsets, and 1 vehicle. Hasbro has the license now but don't appear to have any plans beyond their Kre-O line. I have, and always will, wonder how you can see aisles and aisles of Star Wars toys and zero Star Trek toys. These movies would be a boon for kids and collectors alike. If someone pumped out a steady line of Star Trek merchandise and toys, there's almost certainly a guaranteed market for it.
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May 20, 2013 14:46
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Hot Sexy Jupiter posted:It's a very minor thing, but did anyone else feel that the set design of the Vengeance's bridge was very mid 90's Trek? The flashing panels behind Robocop in particular looked like something straight out of an episode of DS9. Even the uniforms the Section 31 guys wore had an almost TV-quality to them. It looked cheesy as hell, but in a good way. Contrasted nicely with the more modernized glass screen display theme of the Enterprise's bridge. I thought it was goofy that the bridge was all black, to match the evil exterior of the Evil Enterprise.
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May 20, 2013 15:23
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bullet3 posted:The more likely outcome is that they do another movie, but scale back the budget a bit. Who wants to bet they do a time-travel story where the crew comes back to 2015? They could just do a Klingon War movie. CGI space ships blowing up in space isn't that expensive. But the problem with a third entry won't be the effect budget, but whatever pay increase the actors have in their contracts. If the entire crew wasn't signed up for a 3 picture deal it can become very expensive. STID will also double the first movies foreign BO. So there is that. Trump fucked around with this message at 15:38 on May 20, 2013 |
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May 20, 2013 15:32
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Trump posted:They could just do a Klingon War movie. CGI space ships blowing up in space isn't that expensive. I want a goof. Like all of a sudden there's a fire fight and the engineer team gets knocked out and Ensign Fuckwit is ordered to do something and he goes "Hey, that's a shiny button!" pushes it and then, like, the warp core ejects and the ship powers down. Star Trek as a comedy.
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May 20, 2013 15:35
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Things that I found interesting that are callbacks that aren't necessarily "in your face": Putting Checkov into Engineering. In Wrath of Khan, when Checkov is found by Khan on Ceti Alpha V, Khan remembers Checkov and says "I never forget a face". This of course made everyone wonder what the hell was up with that since Checkov was not in the episode Space Seed. It was explained later (and made canon) that Checkov was still in Engineering when Khan showed up and not yet part of the bridge crew. This nods to that and allows for Khan to still remember Checkov in the same way if there is a future revival of Khan. Praxis is already destroyed, and it looks like Kronos (as I guess it's spelled now) is environmentally hosed at this point in time. This negates any kind of future plotline of Star Trek VI if they are going with re-imagining again. I really enjoyed that the Klingons have gotten a big makeover. I have, frankly, been really loving tired of them for quite a while now. And I really am looking forward to seeing them in future movies. I dunno. I'm an old Trek fan and enjoyed the 2009 film, but I'm still not 100 sure on this film. I enjoyed it, but I think all of my old knowledge of the original series kept getting in the way of me just being immersed in this one. I do really enjoy that this and the last film were set ups and the Five-Year Mission is now going to be started. Edit: Why the gently caress wouldn't Star Fleet just use those super transporters ALL THE TIME at this point? Also, I hate that Warp Speed means Kronos to Earth in about 15 minutes.
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May 20, 2013 16:07
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What was the point of Kirk's character arc if once again, his reckless command style was bailed out by blind luck, the very thing Pike him criticized for? Did he learn anything at all? I don't even really understand how his decision to sacrifice himself is even a watershed moment, because selfishness wasn't his problem. Like he said at the beginning, he never lost a crew member. Did Pike die in vain?
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May 20, 2013 16:24
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GATOS Y VATOS posted:Edit: Why the gently caress wouldn't Star Fleet just use those super transporters ALL THE TIME at this point? Also, I hate that Warp Speed means Kronos to Earth in about 15 minutes.
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May 20, 2013 16:30
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Josh Lyman posted:Welp, Into Darkness only grossed $70.6m in its opening weekend compared to $75.2m for Trek 2009. Since the Wednesday night opening, Into Darkness has $84.1m compared to Trek 2009's $86.7m for its first 4 1/2 days. And remember, Trek 2009 didn't have the help of 3D ticket prices. Don't be so hasty; this film broke all sorts of Trek records overseas: http://variety.com/2013/film/news/stark-trek-into-darkness-sets-off-with-84-1-million-stateside-1200483813/ Paramount just overshot the US-based projections. Read this part: "Let’s be clear, however: The film’s total domestic opening weekend (actually 6% better than its predecessor’s), added with an international gross of $80.5 million for a global [take] of $164.6 million and counting, represents a truly solid number for the sequel. It’s only perhaps Paramount was a little too eager for a hit, setting its Stateside expectations too high at $100 million-plus." I guess this is what happens when you release a film with a fanbase with huge internet-based interests a month ahead of the primary market. Aatrek fucked around with this message at 16:33 on May 20, 2013 |
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May 20, 2013 16:30
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Kull the Conqueror posted:What was the point of Kirk's character arc if once again, his reckless command style was bailed out by blind luck, the very thing Pike him criticized for? Did he learn anything at all? I don't even really understand how his decision to sacrifice himself is even a watershed moment, because selfishness wasn't his problem. Like he said at the beginning, he never lost a crew member. Did Pike die in vain? I don't know if this has been mentioned, but I really liked the throw back to ST09 with Kirk's death. It goes back to the Kobayshi Maru test when Spock tells him he failed to get the point of the test: to experience fear in the face of certain death. Which is funny, because I originally thought "how can you be scared in a simulation you know you'll survive?" Then, when he's dying, he tells Spock that he's scared, and really sells it. He doesn't know he's going to survive. Now Kirk gets it. It also goes back to WoK, when Spock is dying and tells Kirk he never took the Maru test, and asks what he thinks of his solution.
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May 20, 2013 16:52
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Also does anyone have any shots of the miniature ships on Admiral Marcus' desk?
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May 20, 2013 16:54
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Zapp Brannigan posted:I don't know if this has been mentioned, but I really liked the throw back to ST09 with Kirk's death. It goes back to the Kobayshi Maru test when Spock tells him he failed to get the point of the test: to experience fear in the face of certain death. Which is funny, because I originally thought "how can you be scared in a simulation you know you'll survive?" Then, when he's dying, he tells Spock that he's scared, and really sells it. He doesn't know he's going to survive. Now Kirk gets it. It also goes back to WoK, when Spock is dying and tells Kirk he never took the Maru test, and asks what he thinks of his solution. There was good emotional punch to the scene, and if you ask me, it all came out of new content that wasn't lifted wholesale from Wrath of Khan. The references did nothing but hinder the melodrama.
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May 20, 2013 16:57
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I finally saw this, and honestly it felt like someone made a movie out of all of the Star Trek parts of my brain, as well as the grad student in Classics parts. The way different elements of established Trek are incorporated, manipulate, and reinterpreted was extremely rewarding for someone who's been a Trek fan since age 5. Just a few things off the top of my head: - The Vengeance assumes the roles of both the Excelsior from ST3 and the Reliant from ST2 (and Scotty sabotages it) - Section 31 - The Prime Directive is handled much better than in Insurrection - Admiral Robocop is basically Cartwright plus Leyton, incorporating ST6 and practically an entire season's worth of DS9 plots while continuing the proud Starfleet tradition of admirals who are total shitheads - Also the social commentary of fear-based military-industrial complexes versus idealism of space exploration etc etc - The Kirk/Spock death scene reversal was, in my opinion, an awesome way to engage with the original - Khaaaaaaaaan - It would have been awesome if Kirk actually had died permanently (rather than being mostly dead) because it would have given the character a death he deserved, an improvement over Generations - Tribble - Harry Mudd - The Klingons are definitely Klingon, but not overused--I think they are set up well to be the focus of the next (and final?) film This film made me feel like a 16 year old fanboy again. Taking into account the context of my personal Star Trek knowledge and my own tastes, I would put this in the top 3 (i.e. top 25%) of Trek films.
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May 20, 2013 17:00
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The way the top Trek films work is basically 1. The Wrath of Khan 2. Undiscovered Country 3. The one with the Whales . . . 4. Eeehhh, probably First Contact
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May 20, 2013 17:06
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I think the obscure marketing may have hurt the film's opening some but hopefully word of mouth will be solid enough. In any case a slightly lower budget for a sequel wouldn't mean doom. Honestly, isn't the rule for sequels still that they make less than their predecessors? I know that there have been more and more exceptions as of late, but diminishing returns are a thing.
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May 20, 2013 17:10
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I liked it. The callbacks aren't stealing from the earlier films, they're meant to be references for old fans to go "oh cool, the writers watched and loved the films we did". Were the science aspects extremely flakey? Sure but it's there to facilitate the plot so whatever; they traveled to the CENTER OF THE GALAXY in one of the older movies (and to the edge of the galaxy in the series) so it's tradition. Were there some things extremely telegraphed (seriously, I avoided ALL spoilers for this movie but the blood thing I was waiting the entire movie for it to be used to revive Spock^H^H^H^H^HKirk the moment it came up. And then they tribbled it twice to hammer it in). I liked the mirroring of the scene after going into the reactor to fix things, played on my expectation and flipped it. ChronoReverse fucked around with this message at 17:15 on May 20, 2013 |
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May 20, 2013 17:10
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Gatts posted:The way the top Trek films work is basically Aatrek posted:Don't be so hasty; this film broke all sorts of Trek records overseas: http://variety.com/2013/film/news/stark-trek-into-darkness-sets-off-with-84-1-million-stateside-1200483813/
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May 20, 2013 17:12
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ChronoReverse posted:I liked it. The callbacks aren't stealing from the earlier films, they're meant to be references for old fans to go "oh cool, the writers watched and loved the films we did". I agree that it's not stealing but there were some really odd moments where it felt like the emotional context of the references were not replaced well enough to give them independent weight in the new film.
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May 20, 2013 17:20
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gradenko_2000 posted:"First star on the right, straight on 'til morning" I was almost certain they were going to do that bit and was surprised they didn't.
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May 20, 2013 17:26
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Kull the Conqueror posted:I agree that it's not stealing but there were some really odd moments where it felt like the emotional context of the references were not replaced well enough to give them independent weight in the new film. Maybe not as heavy as our memories of the movies they came from but sufficient for those who don't know. My brother at least found it fine even though he never saw any of the original Star Trek movies. The only one that I had to explain was KHAAAAAAAAN which was deliberately out of place (I hope anyway).
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May 20, 2013 17:30
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GATOS Y VATOS posted:Also does anyone have any shots of the miniature ships on Admiral Marcus' desk? I don't...but I think I know where you are going with this; I'm pretty positive there is a Vengeance model at the very end. I saw the Phoenix and what I think was the NX-01 Enterprise as well. Auron fucked around with this message at 17:38 on May 20, 2013 |
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May 20, 2013 17:33
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| # ? May 16, 2024 23:09 |
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In addition to a Saturn V rocket and the Apollo capsule, the other spaceships were the pre-NX-01 ringship Enterprise, the Phoenix, the NX-01, the Kelvin, the movie Enterprise, and I think the Vengeance.
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May 20, 2013 17:41
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