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Any of you guys ever watch TheClaude on Twitch? He's got a retardedly fast speedrun of FFT that is fun to watch (once he's done resetting the game 52 times to get the perfect starter party) by battle 6 or 7 Ramza is a godlike calculator entity that can wack the objective/ most of the enemies on the screen with Holy, Bolt 4, or Flare or whatever right on turn 1, haha. I think his best time right now is 4hrs15mins or something, and its a record.
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May 21, 2013 05:28
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Pyroxene Stigma posted:Yeah you did, holy poo poo. One more push like that and you'll be at the final dungeon. Probably not, I've hit the part of the game where good materia starts pouring in so there's a lot of AP grinding and a lot of Side-quests/extra bosses to cheese/beat.
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May 21, 2013 05:34
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Probably not, I've hit the part of the game where good materia starts pouring in so there's a lot of AP grinding and a lot of Side-quests/extra bosses to cheese/beat. I always save my AP grinding for the final dungeon actually, Movers are excellent combined with 2x/3x AP weapons.
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May 21, 2013 05:39
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Loving Life Partner posted:He's got a retardedly fast speedrun of FFT that is fun to watch (once he's done resetting the game 52 times to get the perfect starter party) Wait, what? FFT on PSone? I haven't played it in 10 years, but I've never seen a starting party that wasn't all Squires and other lowest-level jobs. Not to mention it takes hours to grind the levels for something like a Calculator. What am I missing?
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May 21, 2013 13:33
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Pyroxene Stigma posted:I always save my AP grinding for the final dungeon actually, Movers are excellent combined with 2x/3x AP weapons. I always do this too, the other stuff in the area isn't bad either.
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May 21, 2013 13:59
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Fryhtaning posted:Wait, what? FFT on PSone? I haven't played it in 10 years, but I've never seen a starting party that wasn't all Squires and other lowest-level jobs. Not to mention it takes hours to grind the levels for something like a Calculator. What am I missing? He uses the "JP scroll" glitch that dumps huge amounts of job points into certain classes when you manipulate the menu a certain way. The starter characters basically have to have enough JP to be a wizard right after the first battle, he also likes to have females of a certain zodiac sign (this dude talks about zodiac compatibility like every other breath, haha). So basically he turns the 2 chemists into wizards, JP scrolls, gets them bolt 3 and some other stuff, then he kills all the enemies and manipulates the last enemies position so that it just does "Wait" endlessly, and Ramza uses some Yell's and Accumulates to level all the required classes to unlock calculator. During the second battle with Miluda, he grinds Calc up for all the formula skills, sheds the wizards (they crystallize and are dead to save him time to not "Wait" them) and then its off to the races.
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May 21, 2013 14:01
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Loving Life Partner posted:He uses the "JP scroll" glitch that dumps huge amounts of job points into certain classes when you manipulate the menu a certain way. Ah man that's super dissapointing that he uses JP Scroll, though I guess it is in the original game.
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May 21, 2013 14:05
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I'm generally lukewarm toward glitches, but at a certain point there's no real way to run the game any faster without using it, and its doable with just the vanilla game, so yeah. Aside from that, the number crunching that these FFT guys have done is nuts. Especially the positioning to get enemies to indefinitely "Wait"
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May 21, 2013 14:11
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Loving Life Partner posted:Any of you guys ever watch TheClaude on Twitch? Having a speed of 6 means that CT/4 hits everything on the map on the character's first turn. It's amazing even if it does completely trivialize the game.
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May 21, 2013 22:48
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The further I get into FFVII, the more surprised I am at the sheer number of games they tried to cram into this thing. I just finished up with the Gold Saucer and looked up some info on Chocobo Racing only to realize that it's kind of like an entire game by itself. Another cool bit was that marching mini-game with TV ratings but I couldn't figure out the timing for the life of me and had to walk away with nothing special. The games slight weirdness just does not let up.
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May 22, 2013 16:27
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Great Lakes Log posted:The further I get into FFVII, the more surprised I am at the sheer number of games they tried to cram into this thing. I just finished up with the Gold Saucer and looked up some info on Chocobo Racing only to realize that it's kind of like an entire game by itself. Yeah, Chocobo racing is kind of a joke though because you can hold down the shoulder buttons to recover stamina a lot quicker and constantly boost so you'd pretty much have to lose a race on purpose. Unless that prick on the black chocobo shows up. The game purposely makes his chocobo better than yours so you have to actually be careful and use your boost efficiently when he shows up.
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May 22, 2013 21:25
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SpazmasterX posted:Unless that prick on the black chocobo shows up. The game purposely makes his chocobo better than yours so you have to actually be careful and use your boost efficiently when he shows up.
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May 22, 2013 22:05
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The White Dragon posted:Well the trick to that fucker is, because of his top speed formula, you can never choose the Long track and you gotta cut him off in the first half of the race. He still uses the same behavior as a regular aggressive jockey, though, so if you sprint the latter half, he won't be able to catch up to you on account of his sprint being scripted. He'll come in a "close" but guaranteed 2nd about three seconds after you do. This works consistently for me on everything except when I use a green chocobo (or maybe it was blue...I forgot). For some reason, their ability to sprint at the end half just doesn't work out as well. It might be my perception, but it also seems that certain chocobos will experience some sort of resistance while sprinting during that segment at the end which looks like some sort of space wind tunnel. That is what makes it hard for me. Otherwise, your strat works and I still use it while just hoping for the best.
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May 23, 2013 14:54
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Xavier434 posted:This works consistently for me on everything except when I use a green chocobo (or maybe it was blue...I forgot). For some reason, their ability to sprint at the end half just doesn't work out as well. It might be my perception, but it also seems that certain chocobos will experience some sort of resistance while sprinting during that segment at the end which looks like some sort of space wind tunnel. That is what makes it hard for me. Otherwise, your strat works and I still use it while just hoping for the best. Yeah, the space segment slows down most chocobos.
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May 23, 2013 15:19
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So what's the general view of the quality of Final Fantasy English dubs? Like, which are the best amd which are the worst? I just finished Star Ocean 4 about a week ago and while I'd take it over FFXIII in almost any other area, XIII's dub was certainly superior. (I compare SO4 and FFXIII simply because they're the newest JRPGs I've completed) And I'd say XIII's dub was inferior to XII's by a lot and I almost prefer X's over XIII's simply because X had such a larger cast of characters. I'm kinda curious about IV DS' dub because it has quite a few names I recognize from my animes.
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May 25, 2013 08:16
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NikkolasKing posted:So what's the general view of the quality of Final Fantasy English dubs? Final Fantasy was better when you didn't have to worry about this kind of bullshit. Also, Star Ocean 4? Someone actually played that to the end?
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May 25, 2013 08:41
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Pyroxene Stigma posted:Final Fantasy was better when you didn't have to worry about this kind of bullshit.  I've never heard a good FF dub. Even Lost Odyssey's English language track is really crappy and loses a lot of the emotion found in the Japanese language track. Plus it completely cuts out non-script interjections and changes all the jokey mumbling into weird grunts. Jansen has a shitton of mumbly complaints that aren't in the printed script in Japanese, but in English all those lines are converted to stuff like screams or disappointed sighs; Kaim has a bunch of these too but they're completely cut out in the English script which makes him come off as a standoffish Squall II rather than a dude who's slowly remembering his heartbreaking past. The closest thing FF has come to having a good dub was FF12, and that was ruined by sounding like they recorded it in a loving tin can. That DVD has at least a good gig left on it--I wanna say it's even in the gigs plural territory--so compression is no excuse. Non-native dubs just aren't a thing you can rely on is all. Unless you're going from English to Japanese, because holy poo poo Fur20 fucked around with this message at 09:03 on May 25, 2013 |
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May 25, 2013 08:49
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Kingdom Hearts is pretty good mostly...but I suppose that's cheating isn't it?
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May 25, 2013 09:06
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Pyroxene Stigma posted:Also, Star Ocean 4? Someone actually played that to the end? Yep. Had a lot of fun with it. Post-game is probably not worth it though as I'd just get my rear end kicked by all the optional bosses. I can honestly say I've never been that dissatisfied with a FF dub. I like that Square gives chances to a lot of non-standard VAs. They could just fill up their ranks with the typical dub choices like Johnny Yong Bosch or Yuri Lowenthal but for better or worse they are more experimental. Paid off splendidly in FFXII I thought. I don't know who the heck voiced Gabranth or Dr. Cid but they were amazing. RagnarokAngel posted:Kingdom Hearts is pretty good mostly...but I suppose that's cheating isn't it? The KH dub is like, millions of times better than it deserves. Christopher Lee and Leonard Nimoy? FF could use some of that. KH probably got all that because it has the Disney name tagged onto it or something. I'm sure the dub budget concerns come into play more with other Square RPGs than they do with KH. Could easily explain why SO4 used the same three voices-actors so much. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 09:16 on May 25, 2013 |
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May 25, 2013 09:12
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Xenoblade had excellent voice work for a similar reason, but they didn't need such a massive budget - the game was greenlit for release in Europe long before the US, so they got British celebrities to voice the characters.
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May 25, 2013 09:26
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Splitting hairs but I dunno about "celebrities." Although now I'm imagining something like Simon Pegg and Nick Frost as Shulk and Reyn, or Emperor Jeremy Clarkson, and I can't say that wouldn't have been pretty great.
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May 25, 2013 09:46
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My Lovely Horse posted:Splitting hairs but I dunno about "celebrities." You're likely right, all I know about the cast is Melia's voice is on Doctor Who. EDIT: Simon Pegg would make a fantastic Reyn.
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May 25, 2013 09:55
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The KH Dub is easily the best thing Square-Enix has ever done, likely because of Disney. The casting choices they made (especially for KH1) were legit good, often better than the guys Square got later. I'd say the worst is FF13. They got talented actors and (from what I've seen) completely failed to direct them in any meaningful way and completely changed several characters for no clear reason. That on top of the lovely translation turned an already problematic game worse. FFX's dub was pretty bad but had the excuse of being an early effort and also the Japanese version was really bad so it was hard not to be at least on-par.
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May 25, 2013 10:18
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The White Dragon posted:The closest thing FF has come to having a good dub was FF12, and that was ruined by sounding like they recorded it in a loving tin can. That DVD has at least a good gig left on it--I wanna say it's even in the gigs plural territory--so compression is no excuse. I believe it must have went like this: They recorded the dialogue for the Judges. They added a metallic filter to make them sound authentic in their helmets. They forgot to stop adding the filter for everyone else's lines. Then when they realized their mistake, they covered their asses by adding another lair of metallic muffling to the Judges' lines. Alternative explanation: Ivalice is populated entirely by robots. This might explain Vaan's pants. The only other really good JRPG dub out there is probably NieR, and it may not be a coincidence that the tone and setting felt a lot less anime-influenced. Xenoblade clearly was, but the actors took to it like they were doing live theater, not taking themselves overly seriously (which logically could have led to Xenoblade being a musical somehow  ). Cheesy as it often was, it didn't make you feel embarrassed to be enjoying it. I'm curious how the dubbing will turn out in FF14:ARR. Being an MMO it's bound to be just a lot of incidental stuff, but that might work in its favor.
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May 25, 2013 10:22
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Mazed posted:I believe it must have went like this: They recorded the dialogue for the Judges. They added a metallic filter to make them sound authentic in their helmets. They forgot to stop adding the filter for everyone else's lines. Clearly this makes more sense than they decided they needed to compress the poo poo out of the voicework to make it fit on a single disc. Why do you add an extra space after every punctuation mark?
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May 25, 2013 10:24
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i still don't get how you can say Xenosaga's dub wasn't really good, Mazed. We're both fans of the Trilogy (although perhaps to different degrees) but it seems almost unfeasible to me that anyone could enjoy Xenosaga without enjoying the dub. There is just way too much talking in those games and if you don't like the voices talking, you probably aren't going to like the games very much. (Unless you played the Japanese version I guess.) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auh20RPuftg That guy - Dave Wittenberg - needs to be in more stuff. He was apparently Kefka in Dissidia. ImpAtom posted:FFX's dub was pretty bad but had the excuse of being an early effort and also the Japanese version was really bad so it was hard not to be at least on-par. That reminds me - Auron is another example of why Square's policy of using a lot of lesser known VAs works. Tara Strong and John DiMaggio are in that game but Auron is almost always listed as everyone's favorite vocal performance. And the guy was really good. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 11:19 on May 25, 2013 |
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May 25, 2013 11:10
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NikkolasKing posted:i still don't get how you can say Xenosaga's dub wasn't really good, Mazed. I can't say it was really good, but fairly good, sure. That series was so inconsistent in quality as a whole that it bleeds into the impression of everything*. When you take the actors' actual performances on their own merit, it was actually pretty fantastic, but sometimes the ultra-serious tone that the dialogue took clashed with the over-the-top anime action going on all the time. With a few exceptions (particularly Albedo, Margulis, Allen, and somehow KOS-MOS), it felt like they weren't having as much fun with it as they could have. This is a strange kind of criticism, probably, but this impression struck me hard as the series progressed. *even the music, somehow -- not so much the actual soundtracks, but the way they chose to work them into the package, particularly in the first game. How do you gently caress up Mitsuda armed with a whole live orchestra? Give all bosses standard battle music, use all the really cool stuff in just cutscenes, barely use any music at all in the game world, because running through featureless metal corridors to the tune of ambient engine hum is very compelling. Then fix this in the second game by just tacking in some bloopy electronic synth, which doesn't at all clash with Kajiura's careful, inspired, highly atmospheric cutscene music. ...all good in the third one, though. Xenosaga 3's score loving owned. NikkolasKing posted:That reminds me - Auron is another example of why Square's policy of using a lot of lesser known VAs works. Tara Strong and John DiMaggio are in that game but Auron is almost always listed as everyone's favorite vocal performance. And the guy was really good. It seems like Auron got a pass due to being the one guy who's mouth was rarely visible. Everyone else sort of mangled their own performances struggling to match up with the mouth movements. I wonder if they're redubbing anything in the HD rerelease. One could only hope. The voicework has aged much worse than the graphics. Pyroxene Stigma posted:Why do you add an extra space after every punctuation mark? The things you never notice yourself doing. 
Mazed fucked around with this message at 12:00 on May 25, 2013 |
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May 25, 2013 11:58
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All of the Disney characters sound fantastic in Kingdom Hearts, which is no surprise. The only disappointing voice is the Genie from Aladdin, because I'm used to hearing Robin Williams. There are three characters which are much worse than any of the others. The first is Aerith from KHII. Her actress for the first game was good, and sounded like you might imaging her talking in FFVII. In KHII, she was replaced by someone who sounded like they just recovered from a lengthy coma. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzM5vqLYGZo This is great. Everyone's together again.  Kingdom Hearts: Birth by Sleep has three main characters, and one of them is basically Roxas, who has pretty decent acting. The other two, Terra and Aqua, have below average performances. Terra's actor sounds bored and monotone, but there are some scenes where he manages to carry emotion well. Aqua's actress often mumbles her lines, and makes it sound like she has a slight lisp.
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May 25, 2013 11:59
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That loving Sned posted:There are three characters which are much worse than any of the others. The first is Aerith from KHII. Her actress for the first game was good, and sounded like you might imaging her talking in FFVII. In KHII, she was replaced by someone who sounded like they just recovered from a lengthy coma. See, this kind of thing loving kills me. In that interview, Mena Suvari's natural speaking voice sounds like a more believable Aeris than the performance she puts on.
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May 25, 2013 12:04
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ImpAtom posted:I'd say the worst is FF13. They got talented actors and (from what I've seen) completely failed to direct them in any meaningful way and completely changed several characters for no clear reason. That on top of the lovely translation turned an already problematic game worse. I've heard you mention this a few times, and I'd love to learn more about how the translation hosed everything up if you ever have the time (or if someone else has already written about it). I'm curious how badly SE hosed up a translation of their biggest game in years, and if the Japanese version didn't have some of the issues of the US version (or had other issues).
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May 25, 2013 12:22
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Hope... You are hope
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May 25, 2013 12:31
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Is that really bad translation, though? What could Lightning have possibly said to make that not sound stupid?
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May 25, 2013 12:35
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"Hope, you inspire us. I say this so that the message isn't literally punching the player in the face with how blatant it is, as far as having a character named Hope giving hope by wanting to kill Snow or something."
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May 25, 2013 12:43
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Mega64 posted:I've heard you mention this a few times, and I'd love to learn more about how the translation hosed everything up if you ever have the time (or if someone else has already written about it). I'm curious how badly SE hosed up a translation of their biggest game in years, and if the Japanese version didn't have some of the issues of the US version (or had other issues). The only case that was ever clearly and openly made for this was that one interview with Vanille's actress, talking about how they instructed her specifically to make those little noises all the time and give herself this weird lilt, because that's how she sounds in Japanese. Apparently the director considered it an intrinsic part of the character rather than, you know, a quirk of the Japanese language that sounds perfectly natural there, but when brought into English, sounds really bizarre and forced. Hope means hope.  Wonder if the line in Japanese was actually "Hope means [Japanese word for 'hope']", which might not be as dumb a line.Mega64 posted:"Hope, you inspire us. I say this so that the message isn't literally punching the player in the face with how blatant it is, as far as having a character named Hope giving hope by wanting to kill Snow or something." Lightning has few reservations about punching people, so this scene could have been saved by her immediately turning towards the screen after delivering that line and decking it, resulting in a brief camera flip-out before transitioning back to Sazh and Vanille's rad adventure in the J-pop jungle.
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May 25, 2013 12:46
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Mega64 posted:"Hope, you inspire us. I say this so that the message isn't literally punching the player in the face with how blatant it is, as far as having a character named Hope giving hope by wanting to kill Snow or something." Wasn't Hope's line complaining that his name annoyed him? Even if you don't have her literally say the phrase, it's still talking about a person's name, which is stupid from the beginning.
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May 25, 2013 12:51
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Momomo posted:Wasn't Hope's line complaining that his name annoyed him? Even if you don't have her literally say the phrase, it's still talking about a person's name, which is stupid from the beginning. Let's try something else, then. "Shut up, Hope."
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May 25, 2013 12:59
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Mega64 posted:I've heard you mention this a few times, and I'd love to learn more about how the translation hosed everything up if you ever have the time (or if someone else has already written about it). I'm curious how badly SE hosed up a translation of their biggest game in years, and if the Japanese version didn't have some of the issues of the US version (or had other issues). I've written about it before but I'll try to summarize it here: The #1 problem with the translation is that it is extremely overly-literal. Like extremely overly-literal. I've seen scenes from the game where it's clear they translated a Japanese idiom literally without bothering to change it. This isn't a good thing because that isn't how translations work. You don't insert Word A and get Word B and basically any competent translator should know this. There are arguments to be made about the specifics but there's nobody who knows what they're talking about who argues in favor of hyper-literal translations. So right off the bat you've got an overly-literal translation. On top of that there was clearly no editing done on the script to actually make the dialogue sound like dialogue. Things like the Hope means Hope thing were goofy even in the Japanese version but they're extra-goofy here because (thanks to the aforementioned over-literalness) they don't even carry the same connotation. Hope is just named Hope (the English word) in Japanese and so you have an intentional language barrier there which (while it's still a dumb scene) at least avoids that particular thing. None of the dialogue is given a once over to give it more naturalistic dialogue or to alter jokes and puns or... really anything. This makes the game feel even more dry and overly-serious than it already is. Now even ignoring all that, it's also clear that they kept the Japanese dialogue tics for the English version which is such a mind-numbingly stupid idea that I can't believe nobody told them to go jump off a cliff. The English voice actors are specifically being told to act like Japanese actors... not in dialogue or tone, but just in the little breathy pauses or small noises they make. This isn't how any dub should work because vocal and body language tics don't translate like that. Despite that they seriously tried to get Vanille's poor voice actress to mimic all the little "cutsey" noises that the Japanese actress makes. This isn't even a guess. She's said as much in interviews that she was told to do that. This is something no voice actor in any language should be told because that isn't something that you can do without sounding horribly forced and out of place. Now this is bad enough, but it's also clear that whoever was doing the voice acting direction had no idea what they were doing. They were trying to get the actors to mimic the vocal tics but not the actual characterization. The fact that Lightning comes across as a heartless ice queen requires absolutely hilarious amounts of poor direction. Lightning, in the Japanese version, is insanely hot blooded and pissed off basically all the time. Her body language is entirely someone who is loving furious at the world and she repeatedly hauls off and punches people, screams angrily, or charges off to kick the poo poo out of people. Her Japanese voice matches this pretty drat well while her English voice (who otherwise is a good actress) basically sounds cold or bored which is not remotely what you should get. The other characters are not quite as dramatic but there's still some obvious problems there. Snow is a really bizarre thing because they cast the absolute best possible voice acting choice for him (Troy Baker) and then proceeded to poo poo down their leg by failing to translate his dialogue properly. Snow isn't a complex character. He is basically them intentionally redoing Locke from Final Fantasy 6, only he talks about being a Hero instead of a Treasure Hunter. However they sucked any trace of charisma from his lines. The writing is bad but Snow's original actor, Daisuke Ono, at least put his full rear end forward into trying to make it work because Daisuke Ono does his best to salvage poo poo roles in awful products and was allowed to act. Troy Baker was obviously hamstrung by the awful direction. Now, none of this means that FFXIII is a secret gem ruined by a bad translation. It isn't. It's a bad game but easily could have been improved by putting a bare minimum of effort into the dialogue. A game like Nier or Fire Emblem: Awakening would be far less enjoyable if they hadn't gotten a good translation team onboard. Even something hyper-loving-Japanese which keeps senpai and -san in its dialogue like Persona 3 and 4 knows when and how to make the dialogue sparkle. FFXIII has no excuse except laziness and ineptitude. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 13:38 on May 25, 2013 |
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May 25, 2013 13:10
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The White Dragon posted:
Hey TWD, you keep bringing up LO and I hate to break your heart like this (I do not hate to break your heart like this), but the English track for that game came first. The animations were deliberately synched to the English dialogue. Soooooo, you're totally backwards and misremembering things like crazy! For anyone else, Lost Odyssey VA work is fantastic and totally a selling point for the game, assuming that any of you are on the fence after the last seven years or so.
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May 25, 2013 13:15
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ImpAtom posted:I've written about it before but I'll try to summarize it here: Thanks for that! Translations always interest me for some reason, and it's neat to see the differences between some of the actual characters and the way they're portrayed in the English version. I'd certainly like the Japanese version of Lightning more, at any rate, since her being pissed off so much would make more sense than her being constantly stoic. It'd certainly make her more relateable and make her interactions with bravado-filled Snow even more entertaining.
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May 25, 2013 13:29
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Oh it was easy enough to tell Lightning was angry, even in the dub. It's just that she was closer to the Lulu type of bitchy angry instead of furious angry. I liked Baker's Snow but I have nothing to compare it to since I haven't watched the original. I think I just liked Snow as a character. This whole "too literal translation" talk and the benefits of good localization makes me think of MGS1 vs. the remake. Twin Snakes was apparently closer to the Japanese script but it just wasn't as endearing to so many because the dude who originally localized MGS1 was really good at it. Also perhaps some of the returning voices didn't put in quite as good a performance as they did the first time 'round. I wonder how close the translation of Advent Children is. We were talking about this in the FFVII LP thread as I brought up how Jenova is just referred to as "Mother" in the dub but apparently Kadaj and Sephiroth use different ways of saying mother and that was supposed to be significant. But then I talked to Pollyanna about this and apparently people were exaggerating the difference. I guess I kinda like AC as a guilty pleasure. I re-watched it recently and it's still very pretty and sounds good. Well, the music at least. Some of the voice-acting is...not so hot. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 13:39 on May 25, 2013 |
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May 25, 2013 13:36
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