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Quarex posted:* Why do most, but not all, National Guard positions require membership in the National Guard? What are they so worried about?!?! Those are Miltech positions, where the person works as a civilian in a role typically occupied military personnel in an active duty unit (admin/S1, supply/S4, maintenance/S4 etc.) and then drills in that same position as member of the unit on drill weekends. The idea behind it is continuity of responsibility and forcing the civilians to understand the impact they have on unit operations by making them actually participate as a military member on a part time basis.
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May 22, 2013 13:41
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Quarex posted:Late night thoughts for the day: 1. Yes. Apply anyway. Also check out the defense contractor thread (I think it's in GIP?) as it may give you an idea about things you could potentially study. 2. Either what psydude said, or they are AGR (basically "active" guard, full time NG positions) billeted positions. NG has all sorts of weird quirks by virtue of being both state and federal that you won't see in the reserves.
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May 22, 2013 14:45
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Unrelated: My favorite thing about the rejection letters from USAJobs is that I can never tell which job they are for, so it is like never being 100% disappointed!CherryCola posted:1) Yes. Many people get hired straight out of college. An MA helps. Just apply for everything and be able to get and maintain a clearance. Diplomaticus posted:1. Yes. Apply anyway. Also check out the defense contractor thread (I think it's in GIP?) as it may give you an idea about things you could potentially study.  (; more like  )Every time I find an intelligence job it says you need experience in SIGINT CYBINT PARTYTIMEINT and have a year spent analyzing geospatial intelligence data, but I would hardly be surprised if I had the wrong job criteria in my saved searches. I gotta check out that contractor thread to learn more! psydude posted:Those are Miltech positions, where the person works as a civilian in a role typically occupied military personnel in an active duty unit (admin/S1, supply/S4, maintenance/S4 etc.) and then drills in that same position as member of the unit on drill weekends. The idea behind it is continuity of responsibility and forcing the civilians to understand the impact they have on unit operations by making them actually participate as a military member on a part time basis. Diplomaticus posted:2. Either what psydude said, or they are AGR (basically "active" guard, full time NG positions) billeted positions. NG has all sorts of weird quirks by virtue of being both state and federal that you won't see in the reserves. Those jobs actually sound extra-interesting because of the whole "military training" aspect. Not, like, interesting for me to join, but interesting like if I were the sort of person who would do that then it would be an added appeal.
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May 23, 2013 00:48
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Quarex posted:
You most likely won't get hired as an intelligence contractor without an active security clearance. If you want in, I wouldn't bother with USAJobs, go straight to the agency websites and apply there. Most of them have entry-level positions requiring no experience, although they do look for certain things like languages. But yeah, there are some ultra-specific job postings out there where there really can't be that many qualified applicants.
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May 23, 2013 00:58
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Quarex posted:The "both state and federal" thing makes a lot of sense, and is actually kind of fascinating to think about. Certainly that could explain the focus on making sure their federal-oriented positions go to someone already in or willing to join the state branch. The Reserve uses a similar model for its civilian miltechs and AGRs, but they're all GS or on Title 10 orders.
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May 23, 2013 16:38
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psydude posted:The National Guard of the United States is actually a federal organization headed by the National Guard Bureau, which is staffed by federal employees and guardsmen serving under Title 10 and is considered part of the Reserve Component. That being said, only a small portion of National Guard civilians and AGRs at the state level are federal employees or are under Title 10 Orders. The rest are all state employees or on Title 32. I used to be an IT contractor at the NGB in Virgina. They are all really good people to work with, and the headquarters facility is SUPER nice. Parking sucks there though. Nearly all the civilian employees were at some point active duty or reservists. I really wanted to continue working there, but the commute sucked.
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May 23, 2013 17:25
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Quarex posted:* Is there any way to get a job in intelligence without already having had a job in intelligence? I assume this is the kind of thing where if you are not a military person you just have no way to get the requisite skills? I did. I'm on a 7/9/11/12 internship. As somebody else said, I wouldn't bother too much with contractors if you don't have a clearance already, especially with so many already-qualified, already-cleared people getting out of the military. Check USAJOBS every day. Check Federal Soup every day. Check agencies' websites every day. I can't emphasize these enough. The billet I ended up filling opens up annually and they accept applications for less than a week. The only reason I shot off the initial application was because I had a profile ready to go on USAJOBS and I happened to see people talking about it on Federal Soup. Keep in mind, this was probably my 30th or 40th application overall so be persistent. I know for sure my department isn't the only one in the IC that offers these 7/9/11/12 deals - keep an eye out for them. They can be competitive, but my boss straight up told me after I was hired that he was specifically looking for somebody with little to no experience. Play up your strengths, always be looking to make yourself as competitive as possible, customize whatever resume you end up submitting to the position, and don't be modest (at all) when answering the "qualified/very qualified/expert" pre-screen questions.
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May 24, 2013 04:22
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How do you recommend using Federal Soup? For any type of federal job not just intelligence. I'm in the peace corps right now and am really leaning towards a federal job when I finish my service. How difficult is it to get a job with department of education? I get the impression that it is a smaller agency from the lack of ED postings on usajobs.
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May 24, 2013 04:30
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menpoop posted:I did. I'm on a 7/9/11/12 internship. As somebody else said, I wouldn't bother too much with contractors if you don't have a clearance already, especially with so many already-qualified, already-cleared people getting out of the military. I was an intel analyst in the military but got out and went to school for IT security and it seems I never see any entry level IT stuff above a 5, if I see anything at all. I might just be doing a bad job of searching USAJOBS. This is really making me think I should just keep an eye out for a 7/9/11/12 track intel thing. I dunno, might just be late night job search frustration.
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May 24, 2013 11:20
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hitachi posted:I was an intel analyst in the military but got out and went to school for IT security and it seems I never see any entry level IT stuff above a 5, if I see anything at all. I might just be doing a bad job of searching USAJOBS. The vast majority of IT personnel working the government, like probably 90%, are contractors. The non-manager federal employees themselves almost always fall more into an administrative function anyway due to the various regulations prohibiting contractors doing things like interfacing with vendors and asset control. It'll be a lot easier to get in as a contractor and convert to a federal position later.
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May 24, 2013 15:08
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psydude posted:The vast majority of IT personnel working the government, like probably 90%, are contractors. The non-manager federal employees themselves almost always fall more into an administrative function anyway due to the various regulations prohibiting contractors doing things like interfacing with vendors and asset control. It'll be a lot easier to get in as a contractor and convert to a federal position later. Probably depends Department to Department. At mid-high grades, Fed IT employees are almost always managers of projects/resources.
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May 24, 2013 15:50
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TCD posted:Probably depends Department to Department. At mid-high grades, Fed IT employees are almost always managers of projects/resources. That's why I qualified it as non-managers. But yeah, contractors generally aren't PMs or managers unless they're working in a consulting capacity.
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May 24, 2013 17:17
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Xandu posted:You most likely won't get hired as an intelligence contractor without an active security clearance. If you want in, I wouldn't bother with USAJobs, go straight to the agency websites and apply there. Most of them have entry-level positions requiring no experience, although they do look for certain things like languages. This sort of brings me back to my earlier question about job series numbers; it increasingly does not seem like they are helpful for the "substituting education for experience" crowd, since there seems to be no real way to know ahead of time whether the substitution is functionally useful. Por ejemplo: Two jobs in the same job series and the same grade that let me substitute my graduate education for work experience. One was like "all right, so you are finishing your doctorate, that is awesome, just check these boxes acknowledging that you are a computer expert and are good at finishing projects with no supervision and you are good to go!" and the other one was like "and how much experience do you have designing budgets for national-level agencies? How about members of Congress, how often do you meet with them on the job?" I wish there were a checkbox for "do not bother showing me job postings that ask 50 questions about work experience if I say I am substituting education for work experience." But by the same token--am I just kidding myself that education is actually a substitution if you do not have the typical work experience of a job series? (I was also wondering if anyone is actually going to hire someone for a supervisory position if that person has never worked for the federal government in the first place; ignoring those jobs would save me lots of time) As for ultra-specific postings, there are some great stories about this in academia, but I will try to stay on topic for a change. menpoop posted:I did. I'm on a 7/9/11/12 internship. As somebody else said, I wouldn't bother too much with contractors if you don't have a clearance already, especially with so many already-qualified, already-cleared people getting out of the military. I have seen the "only reason you applied is because you were ready to go" thing--I have applied to two or three "first 50 applicants only" postings as a result of checking USAJobs at like 4 A.M. Pacific time when the jobs had seemingly just been posted out East. Edit: Oh right, I did not actually finish this part of the post. But yeah, I have applied to like ~150 jobs at this point, so I certainly have the stick-to-itiveness to figure this thing out.
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May 26, 2013 10:29
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Quarex posted:I am curious as to what a 7/9/11/12 internship means--just one that is open to four different grades, or one where you start at 7 and expect to be at 12 by the time you finish? That latter sounds pretty dumb when I type it, but how would I know?
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May 26, 2013 14:45
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FYI not all agencies have their poo poo together and promote you exactly one year after when it's due. I was hired early January but my next ladder grade the following year didn't become effective until early March. I have a feeling my next ladder will become effective sometime May next year. Your results may vary.
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May 26, 2013 18:00
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For myself, my promotion was backdated to my one year mark, and I received a lump sum of back pay that was owed to me.
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May 27, 2013 14:50
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It's also one year of hours worked. I started as part time (30 hours/week) and it was like 14-16 months until I got my step increase.
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May 27, 2013 16:14
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Is Transportation Security Officer really something I should be considering? It is one of the few at-all-appropriate jobs with openings near me, and I advanced to the screening exam (though that is likely not terribly challenging), but now I am thinking "does this job somehow come with political baggage of which I am unaware?" Clearly there is no better place in the entire world to ask this than here. I just have this probably-irrational fear that this is like the federal equivalent of the dead-end security guard job.
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May 30, 2013 10:01
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Quarex posted:Is Transportation Security Officer really something I should be considering? It is one of the few at-all-appropriate jobs with openings near me, and I advanced to the screening exam (though that is likely not terribly challenging), but now I am thinking "does this job somehow come with political baggage of which I am unaware?" Clearly there is no better place in the entire world to ask this than here. I just have this probably-irrational fear that this is like the federal equivalent of the dead-end security guard job. I think it would be a good move to take it if you get it. I know more than one person at my agency (USCIS) who got their start in fed employment at TSA. I think most people doing the hiring would understand you're just trying to get your foot in the door. Also you will have had a background check (and maybe status? Don't remember if TSA gives you competitive status) which could really help you in leapfrogging to another fed job.
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May 30, 2013 18:07
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My agency just hired someone from TSA, FWIW...but to be fair, for him it was a part-time job while he finished his computer engineering degree, and now my agency has hired him as a computer engineer.
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May 30, 2013 19:00
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Quarex posted:"does this job somehow come with political baggage of which I am unaware?" Oh, yes. Yes it does... TSA Lead here. Just go into this job with a plan for moving up, or moving on. The job has gotten somewhat better since TSA got some union representation. It's not as horrible as it used to be. If you do get the job and get to training, when they ask "how many of you want to go to baggage screening?" for the sake of your sanity, raise your hand! You will work harder by lifting heavy bags (which is a plus in my book) and not have to deal with passengers.
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May 31, 2013 01:28
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Otten posted:I think it would be a good move to take it if you get it. I know more than one person at my agency (USCIS) who got their start in fed employment at TSA. I think most people doing the hiring would understand you're just trying to get your foot in the door. Also you will have had a background check (and maybe status? Don't remember if TSA gives you competitive status) which could really help you in leapfrogging to another fed job. According to this thing as of 2008 anyone who works for a full year is eligible for competitive status (though why is it not called "non-competitive status?"). It also sounds like a significant percentage of Transportation-folk have clearance (the claim on the random 2010 article I just saw was that they wanted about 1/6 of the workforce to have it), so that is interesting, though that would logically be for more senior people. Justus posted:My agency just hired someone from TSA, FWIW...but to be fair, for him it was a part-time job while he finished his computer engineering degree, and now my agency has hired him as a computer engineer. Of course, now that I get to the "scheduling the exam" part, it says the job is part-time, even though the opening made it sound like it was full-time. Weak. Particularly since I just read that part-time employees do not get competitive status. Maybe I will pass on this after all. Edit: Aw crap new response Delorence Fickle posted:Oh, yes. Yes it does... TSA Lead here. Just go into this job with a plan for moving up, or moving on. The job has gotten somewhat better since TSA got some union representation. It's not as horrible as it used to be.
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May 31, 2013 01:40
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Quarex posted:According to this thing as of 2008 anyone who works for a full year is eligible for competitive status (though why is it not called "non-competitive status?"). TSA employees are, upon completion of one year, eligible to apply for competitive service positions. This eligibility is due to an interchange agreement between TSA and OPM. The agreement does not convert the TSA positions from excepted service to competitive service, and it is possible the agreement could expire at some point without being renewed. This is a slight but important distinction from what you wrote.
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May 31, 2013 03:40
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Thanks for that clarification, I saw there was an agreement between the agencies but did not know this was a (potentially) temporary thing, nor of course what "excepted service" means. There, now I have Googled it, and I still do not understand, beyond that apparently this is what Delorence Fickle was referring to with the "used to suck" pre-union thing if it is harder to appeal/bargain/et cetera. Edit: I am super-confused that in filling out the questionnaire for Secret Service Special Agent I had more of the "best qualifications" than for basically any other position besides "administrative assistant" positions. Finally, my unique combination of academic research and teaching, risk management, and parking enforcement experience is proving useful! Haha. Not that I expect I still have much of a chance. Particularly as long as the government's Selective Service number lookup program is offline so I cannot finish the application 
Dr. Quarex fucked around with this message at 06:49 on Jun 3, 2013 |
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May 31, 2013 03:52
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Welp, two of my applications to jobs with the Defense Contract Management Agency have been referred to the selection official. Anyone have a feel for how long the lag is between referral and calls for interviews with the people they pick out of the referred applicant pool? This is through their Keystone program, not sure if that matters.
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Jun 3, 2013 16:55
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Operating Rod posted:Welp, two of my applications to jobs with the Defense Contract Management Agency have been referred to the selection official. I actually started last month as a DCMA keystone. Unfortunately, there's no way to really predict lag in the process. It can vary a lot from one office to the next. When I applied, I applied to four keystone positions at different offices all at the same time. One of them, in Carson CA, rejected me outright, but it took a couple of months for the status to update to reflect that. The second, in Denver CO, let me know I had an interview after only a week! The interview happened about 3 weeks after that, and I was rejected about a month later. The next fastest one was Tucson AZ, which is where I work now. Took about 3 weeks to get the interview set up and I had the interview about a month after that, then two weeks before I got a tentative offer...then I was waiting about three months to get my security clearance before setting my start date and getting a final offer. The slowest was Indianappolis IN. Took well over two months before I was contacted for an interview and then another two months when I had the interview (this was while I was in the middle of getting the security clearance, and I just wanted to keep as many balls in the air as I could, just in case). They actually DID make me a tentative job offer...but I had already moved to Tucson and had been working for about a week by the time they had gotten sufficiently in gear! Anyways, I'm a computer engineer keystone for DCMA Raytheon Tucson, so I could probably answer any questions you have about it, or could at least easily find out for you.
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Jun 3, 2013 20:33
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If you hear something along the way about the contract price analyst slots DCMA is trying to fill in Woburn, MA or Nashua, NH I would surely appreciate anything you might pass along!
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Jun 3, 2013 21:30
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I wouldn't hold your breath. We're not really made privvy to hiring details from other offices. However, as chance would have it, I am going to visit the MA office for training at the end of August. So if it's still an open question by then, I may be able to ask around for you. I'd still not count on it though. Honestly I meant more if you had questions about the DCMA in general more than that kind of specific insider information.
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Jun 3, 2013 22:05
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quote:Honestly I meant more if you had questions about the DCMA in general more than that kind of specific insider information.  I know, I was joking. Although it's very funny that you'll be in MA.
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Jun 3, 2013 22:57
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USAJobs Pro(bably Useless)Tip: For those jobs that ask you a half-dozen questions about your high school experiences (despite the fact that you are using your doctoral education to qualify), think back to your awful high school record very carefully, and maybe even look at your yearbooks if you still have them. I say this because after assuming I would always have to shamefully have to answer "no" to "did you have a 3.0+ GPA or membership in an honors society in high school" questions, I discovered that the International Thespian Society is, in fact, an honors society. Ahahaha!!! All those nights spent memorizing lines instead of doing my homework were actually only 99% useless for my long-term prospects! ~~~~~~~~ A different question: the subject of "referred to selecting official" is sort of intriguing to me. I have been referred to the selecting officials for like 25 different jobs out of the ~175 I have applied for; does this actually matter? I kind of thought it was a formality where if you passed the basic qualifications that they sent your application on. I know that some applications say they only send the "best qualified" applications on, and I have never made it into that category--all the ones I am referred for do not seem to use that system. Unless they all do, and they just do not inform you if they do? Oh, I am so confused.
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Jun 4, 2013 05:17
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Quarex posted:A different question: the subject of "referred to selecting official" is sort of intriguing to me. I have been referred to the selecting officials for like 25 different jobs out of the ~175 I have applied for; does this actually matter? I kind of thought it was a formality where if you passed the basic qualifications that they sent your application on. I know that some applications say they only send the "best qualified" applications on, and I have never made it into that category--all the ones I am referred for do not seem to use that system. Unless they all do, and they just do not inform you if they do? Oh, I am so confused. The way I understand it is that it's like a first round of cuts, but I could be wrong. I applied to seven DCMA jobs on the east coast and was "referred" for two of them, presumably the ones with the smallest applicant pools (NH and MA). I got my rejection notice from what I am assuming is the on-site DCMA contract administration team at Sikorsky pretty quick (it hit the applicant limit in like 36 hours) which would make sense because everyone on the government side of UTC's Connecticut facilities would be aware of it and all of them are more qualified than I would be.
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Jun 4, 2013 12:41
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Operating Rod posted:The way I understand it is that it's like a first round of cuts, but I could be wrong. In unrelated news, the US Forest Service can buzz off for being the first agency to say that a graduate education can be substituted for work experience and yet then say I am unqualified once I select the "no work experience" box. I suppose it is nice of them to then give me a WITHDRAW APPLICATION button as a result, though!  (Incidentally, this is for a Social Scientist position ... you know ... the thing I am educated to do)
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Jun 4, 2013 23:26
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I have a question regarding a federal resume. For my work experience, I worked under the table in a family run donut shop every summer. Should I put it on my resume applying for a federal job? I was wondering since it required me to put a salary down even though I was just paid periodically at times for helping out. Would they check into whether or not they paid their workers or the taxes they pay? I really don't want to get my family into trouble from me just applying for a federal job. And if I didn't include this on my resume, it would look like I would have zero work experience. Thanks in Advance!
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Jun 7, 2013 23:38
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Pistol Packin Poet posted:I have a question regarding a federal resume. For my work experience, I worked under the table in a family run donut shop every summer. Should I put it on my resume applying for a federal job? I was wondering since it required me to put a salary down even though I was just paid periodically at times for helping out. Would they check into whether or not they paid their workers or the taxes they pay? I really don't want to get my family into trouble from me just applying for a federal job. And if I didn't include this on my resume, it would look like I would have zero work experience. Thanks in Advance! I would put it on your résumé but leave it off any security clearance investigation forms if/when you get the job. I had a job in college that was technically volunteer, I put it on my résumé (not mentioning it was volunteer) and left it off my security clearance so they never got contacted. Worked out okay.
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Jun 8, 2013 00:31
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Otten posted:I would put it on your résumé but leave it off any security clearance investigation forms if/when you get the job. I had a job in college that was technically volunteer, I put it on my résumé (not mentioning it was volunteer) and left it off my security clearance so they never got contacted. Worked out okay. What about the forms needed when applying? Should I put it on their too?
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Jun 8, 2013 04:03
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Lying or deliberately omitting information on clearance forms is a bad idea.
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Jun 8, 2013 06:51
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hitension posted:Lying or deliberately omitting information on clearance forms is a bad idea. Basically, there's no reason not to mention the work experience if requested.
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Jun 8, 2013 12:04
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I hope this is the right thread for this. If it's not please tell me and I'll scoot off somewhere else. I'm a 20 year old sophomore in college. Political Science major, english literature and philosophy double minor at the moment. Asian, if that's relevant. I speak Chinese (as well as English, obviously.) I was recently pointed to the Law School thread by a friend and I realized that, gently caress, I don't want to go to Law School after all. Now I need options. Options and ideas for a career in order to fend off my family members who seem rather set on me being a lawyer or doctor or something along those lines. I was always interested in a Federal Government job though, so I thought I'd ask what are some recommended routes into the field, if a law degree isn't necessary? I'm mostly interested in international politics, but I think I'd be fine with almost anything in government, really. If you guys need more details or clarifications to help me please ask.
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Jun 12, 2013 20:41
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Artificer posted:I hope this is the right thread for this. If it's not please tell me and I'll scoot off somewhere else. I don't know about long term, but one of my coworkers at the DCMA started out working part time for TSA as airport security for four years while he was still in school. Even though he was part time, he still got full benefits, and they even counted all four years, non-prorated, towards his pension and retirement. Plus the fact that he already had his foot in the door with the gov really helped him get his current position.
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Jun 12, 2013 20:52
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Justus posted:I don't know about long term, but one of my coworkers at the DCMA started out working part time for TSA as airport security for four years while he was still in school. Even though he was part time, he still got full benefits, and they even counted all four years, non-prorated, towards his pension and retirement. Plus the fact that he already had his foot in the door with the gov really helped him get his current position. Huh. That's good to keep in mind. I'll have to see if there are any possible positions near where I live, then. Thanks.
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Jun 12, 2013 20:53
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