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TOOT BOOT posted:But that's not the whole story because ADWD took another 5+ years to come out. The Meereeneese Knot was what got him stuck on ADWD. It would have been the same thing if they were both still combined into one book -- he'd be stuck on Dany's arc all the same.
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May 23, 2013 22:19
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Just to chime in, I thought the interleaved order worked very well, structurally and thematically. Really seemed at times that they were part of one integrated work in the way that subjects and themes of a FFC chapter would be important and reflected in the next, ADWD, chapter.
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May 23, 2013 23:17
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AFFC is actually a good read if you skip every Ironmen chapter and every Brienne chapter except for her last, which I've done on every reread. All of the other story arcs are interesting. I'm halfway through ADWD right now. It's sad to say but I can see myself having to skip every Tyrion chapter on rereads of it. I don't know what happened there to make his story so boring in this book.
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May 23, 2013 23:45
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As someone who just finished the AFFC/ADWD mix I think it works a hell of a lot better than the two books independantly. One of the biggest problems I had with each book is that they felt super overwrote; the books were dominated by characters (Cersei/Brienne in AFFC, Daenerys/Tyrion in ADWD) who had fairly isolated and repetitive character arcs. Combining the two books together opens up a ton of breathing room, and I never thought 'Oh God, not this character, I just left them!' when I read the mix while I know for sure I felt that a ton when reading the books individually. Also, the two books parallel really well. A ton of PoVs take on the burdens of leadership, or go on a long journey, or take on a false identity - the plot threads are different, but the thematic links are certainly there. Scrree fucked around with this message at 00:12 on May 24, 2013 |
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May 24, 2013 00:10
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Super Ninja Fish posted:AFFC is actually a good read if you skip every Ironmen chapter and every Brienne chapter except for her last, which I've done on every reread. All of the other story arcs are interesting. This would be pretty moronic for someone on their first read-through though.
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May 24, 2013 00:28
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Super Ninja Fish posted:AFFC is actually a good read if you skip every Ironmen chapter and every Brienne chapter except for her last, which I've done on every reread. All of the other story arcs are interesting. Aside from his last couple, Tyrion's chapters in ADWD are some of his best in the series (The trip down the Rhoyne and the Aegon reveal are AMAZING). It really only sours towards the end, but TWOW will make Tyrion overall great again.
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May 24, 2013 01:17
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webmeister posted:This would be pretty moronic for someone on their first read-through though. I think someone could just read the summaries for those chapters on Tower of the Hand and not lose out on anything. This is how the Ironmen AFOC story should have been presented in the books - as a summary. Perhaps said in Asha's first chapter of ADWD. I see those chapters as a total waste of time.
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May 24, 2013 13:02
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Super Ninja Fish posted:I think someone could just read the summaries for those chapters on Tower of the Hand and not lose out on anything. This is how the Ironmen AFOC story should have been presented in the books - as a summary. Perhaps said in Asha's first chapter of ADWD. I see those chapters as a total waste of time. I have found the Ironmen chapters featuring Victarion Greyjoy to be quite enjoyable as long as I play 80s metal while reading them. Soylent Pudding fucked around with this message at 19:04 on Jun 17, 2013 |
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May 24, 2013 20:13
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I sort of enjoyed the Kings Moot, it fleshed in the world of the Ironmen. I really liked all of Brienne's and Pod and friends merry travels. 90% of the entire series is pretty much a mismatched buddy/cop travel action-comedy. AFFC is better upon re-reads.
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May 24, 2013 20:32
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Which are the Seven Kingdoms? Does that refer to the time of the First Men or the Andals?
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May 24, 2013 21:42
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Baron Porkface posted:Which are the Seven Kingdoms? Does that refer to the time of the First Men or the Andals?
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May 24, 2013 21:47
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Why isn't Kingdom of The Rock on that list? And what about the Riverlands?
Baron Porkface fucked around with this message at 21:54 on May 24, 2013 |
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May 24, 2013 21:49
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Baron Porkface posted:Why isn't Kingdom of The Rock on that list?
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May 24, 2013 21:54
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Baron Porkface posted:Why isn't Kingdom of The Rock on that list? and what about the Riverlands? Technically the Westerlands were known as the kingdom of the rock. The official names were, per the wiki: The Kingdom of the North, the Kingdom of Vale and Sky, the Kingdom of the Isles and Rivers, Kingdom of the Rock, Kingdom of the Reach, Kingdom of the Stormlands and Dorne. The Riverlands were held by the Iron Islanders (kingdom of the isles and rivers).
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May 24, 2013 21:56
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I've read GoT and ACoK. Is this thread safe for me to look at? I read the title but I'd swear I saw an unspoilered Book 2 detail in here once.
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May 24, 2013 22:00
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:I've read GoT and ACoK. Is this thread safe for me to look at? I read the title but I'd swear I saw an unspoilered Book 2 detail in here once. Why are you wasting time in here when you could be reading Storm of Swords?
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May 24, 2013 22:05
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Azure_Horizon posted:Aside from his last couple, Tyrion's chapters in ADWD are some of his best in the series (The trip down the Rhoyne and the Aegon reveal are AMAZING). It really only sours towards the end, but TWOW will make Tyrion overall great again. Tyrion's either going to die the most glorious or most embarrassing death out of any character in the series. He's too popular for GRRM not to kill him. The fact that GRRM likes him the most just makes the target even bigger. Although I'll be rather surprised if (later book(s) spoilerish stuff) Cersei is killed by someone other than Jaime when it's time for her to die. The prophecy she was given mentions the Valonquar and while she and Jaime are twins, she was born first out of the two of them and so Jaime's technically her little brother. There's also rifts forming between them to the point that he gets her letter begging for help and just ignores her completely, essentially leaving her for dead.
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May 25, 2013 05:19
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Evil Fluffy posted:Tyrion's either going to die the most glorious or most embarrassing death out of any character in the series. He's too popular for GRRM not to kill him. The fact that GRRM likes him the most just makes the target even bigger. If he does it's not going to be until the end. It makes no narrative sense to kill them while killing Robb et all certainly did (it set up a new antagonist in the Freys and Robb was doomed ever since he married the one girl anyway).
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May 25, 2013 16:25
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:I've read GoT and ACoK. Is this thread safe for me to look at? I read the title but I'd swear I saw an unspoilered Book 2 detail in here once. I'd say no. Just the conversation on this page speaks of characters in the last book and no one bothered to put them in spoilers.
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May 26, 2013 03:06
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Just finished my reread of A Dance With Dragons. Some observations:
Joramun fucked around with this message at 10:42 on May 29, 2013 |
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May 29, 2013 10:32
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GRRM loves writing about people eating capons. The funny thing is that a capon is just a normal chicken by modern standards. No one bothers making capons because they're already huge.
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May 30, 2013 00:36
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Don't forget other favorites like boiled leather and rushes.
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May 30, 2013 02:39
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TOOT BOOT posted:GRRM loves writing about people eating capons.
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May 30, 2013 04:22
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I have devoured this series after picking it up recently. I am just starting dance with dragons and there is one small detail that has bugged me over the course of what I have read so far HOW IS SAMWELL STILL SO GODDAMNED FAT? Seriously, the guy is sent to the wall where the food can't be great, he gets sent out beyond the wall and all that involved and hes done so much stuff that by all rights the dude shouldn't be this big blumpkin of a human being still but apparently he is still huge. Sam why are you so fat?!
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May 31, 2013 08:02
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He's not though, didn't you notice how his swordbelt keeps falling off in Braavos? Clearly he's been losing some weight. .
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May 31, 2013 08:19
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I always assumed Sam was never as fat as he's described. There's just less overweight people in such a lovely place like Westeros so he's really out of place.
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May 31, 2013 08:26
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I had not actually noticed that no. I guess the depiction they have of him in the HBO series is stuck in my head because he is fairly large in that.
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May 31, 2013 08:38
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There's a point in AFFC where Sam straight up says I've lost weight, if the hints about his clothing don't give that away.
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May 31, 2013 09:48
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Evil Fluffy posted:Don't forget other favorites like boiled leather and rushes. Speaking of, what the hell are rushes anyway? Some kind of floor covering I imagine but I can't figure it out any closer than that.
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May 31, 2013 09:49
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Basically long-stemmed plant material that was used as insulation on the floor and to keep your home from stinking up too badly. Once it got dirty, you could just sweep it out and put new material in.
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May 31, 2013 10:15
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I think that some places in the US used to use sawdust/wood shavings in the same way - bars and butchers? If you are looking for a mental image, it would be comparable to spreading a hale bale around in the room, I think.
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May 31, 2013 15:56
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Personperson14 posted:I always assumed Sam was never as fat as he's described. There's just less overweight people in such a lovely place like Westeros so he's really out of place. There's various overweight people mentioned in ASOIAF but they're almost all nobles, merchants, or other well-off types that can afford to stuff themselves instead of working. Robert Baratheon is the shining example of this because it's even mentioned how when he became king he was basically built like a brick shithouse and while king he just lets himself go. Off the top of my head you've got Varys, the Magister guy in Pentos, Manderly, Fat Walda...etc. All of whom, like Sam, are nobles or hold a position of power and influence.
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Jun 1, 2013 21:15
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Evil Fluffy posted:Off the top of my head you've got Varys, the Magister guy in Pentos, Manderly, Fat Walda...etc. All of whom, like Sam, are nobles or hold a position of power and influence. To be fair Varys still gets a ton of poo poo done even with his weight. Silently running and climbing behind walls, crossbowing the gently caress out of dudes, that weight is not slowing him down. But yeah there are definitely a fair number of fat people, and the attitude towards them is tinged with a bit of a modern sensibility. At the time some people might have seen a lot of fat as a sign of weakness or decadence, but a lot more people would straight up admire it because it was an indicator of how wealthy and successful you were. We never see anyone hold that second opinion because these days we hate fat people.
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Jun 1, 2013 21:50
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cafel posted:To be fair [spoiler]Varys still gets a ton of poo poo done even with his weight. Silently running and climbing behind walls, At the time some people might have seen a lot of fat as a sign of weakness or decadence, but a lot more people would straight up admire it because it was an indicator of how wealthy and successful you were. We never see anyone hold that second opinion because these days we hate fat people. This is still true in poorer parts of the world. Had a 350lbs+ friend go to Romania about six or seven years ago and women were almost literally throwing themselves at him because they thought he must be a rich American businessman (instead of broke rear end American grad student).
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Jun 1, 2013 22:55
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^^^ You broke the spoiler tag in your quote.cafel posted:To be fair Varys still gets a ton of poo poo done even with his weight. Silently running and climbing behind walls, crossbowing the gently caress out of dudes, that weight is not slowing him down. If it wasn't for the part where he tells Tyrion about what happened to him as a kid that resulted in him being a eunuch, and how he mentions having a fear/hatred of magic, I'd have wondered if Varys was a Faceless Man or was being trained by them at one point but left for some reason. The way they describe his disguises is almost more than a matter of just being extremely good with makeup, costume, and acting. His past as a thief also would imply that while he's fat it's not that he's a lazy fat like Robert/Sam/Manderly but that it's more a matter of them not having a life that is demanding to the point of it keeping them slim while those other 3 were/are just lazy and got fat from it. But having been in the free cities it's always possible he can simply be quiet as a shadow and regardless of his weight gain his years of experience keep him as capable as ever.
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Jun 3, 2013 01:59
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I'm about halfway through Feast, and I've just got to say I'm surprised that I really, really like it. Thanks, I guess, for lowering my expectations, but I really don't see how anyone can call it the worst book in the series. I get that it doesn't really have the  moments from the previous books, but I absolutely love all of the characters it focuses on, the pacing is better, the prose is just plain nice to read, and aside from the glaring lack of Tyrion it may be my favorite book so far. Maybe I just have a soft spot for Brienne. Maybe I'm just really digging Cersei's slow descent into madness. Maybe I'm just not plagued by the endless wait between books. It's weird because usually I don't like character-focused stories without a really strong plot to go with them, but I think because I've gone into it with the perspective of a small part of a greater narrative, it's more like the welcome breathing room after a shitstorm.I'm not sure I'll like Dance as much, though, if it's anything like Feast. Except for Tyrion I don't find the characters I assume will be the focus of that book half as interesting. loving Jon Snow can die in a fire. I kind of regret not doing that two-book chronological chapter order, but I was worried that would screw up the pacing and mess with chapter transitions. Oh well. Low expectations yielded great results for this book, so why not the next?
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Jun 6, 2013 23:28
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The chronological order of Feast/Dance actually preserves pacing and all reveals happen as they naturally would have were the books just one instead of two.
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Jun 7, 2013 02:00
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I liked both AFFC and ADWD and I read them in order. I actually liked ADWD a lot, probably more than the first two books. I think it's easier to stomach when you don't have to wait several years in between books four and five.
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Jun 7, 2013 02:01
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Azure_Horizon posted:The chronological order of Feast/Dance actually preserves pacing and all reveals happen as they naturally would have were the books just one instead of two. If you read AFFC and ADWD together I think it spoils that Davos isn't actually executed, some other condemned person is beheaded and given a stubby hand so that he can appear to be dead and be sent off to find Rickon because having the reality of the situation come up right afterward seems to lessen the whole thing. My biggest problem with AFFC was the characters for the most part. Most of the ones I wanted to read up on were in ADWD.
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Jun 7, 2013 02:07
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Anyone happen to know where I can get a relatively cheap box set of ASOIF Hardcover?
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Jun 7, 2013 16:04
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