Ask us about SCUBA (and other forms of) diving!

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Ask us about SCUBA (and other forms of) diving!

Bishop: Aug 15, 2000

Isin't the standard octo hose only about 4 inches longer than the primary? Life and death poo poo right there.

All of my stages, one yoke first stage then 4 DIN first stages for doubles/deco. I think I have 8 different hose lengths among this set so I've played with hoses a time or two:

My single tank stages, which are about as boilerplate as you can get. Is the octo hose longer enough to make a difference? I don't think so:

What bugs me is not taking issues with someone's setup, but "I would not let you in the water as a DM" is a pretty strong statement, especially for something I see as a minor modification that makes his rig overall more streamlined.

Edit for some non-snarky content: In a real OH poo poo ALL OF THE SUDDEN I CANT BREATHE type OOG emergency, the diver (If we are talking about the type of divers who need instructors and DMs with them) is much more likely to panic and bolt, plus they are probably 5-10 feet from their buddy so the swim towards them is much more of a danger than that last few inches. If it's a situation where someone knows they are about to run out, I think the diference in hose length is trivial.

Sivores posted:

Thank you for the info and to be unfathomably honest I had forgotten how many dives I had. Its been awhile since some and I have a lost logbook containing like twelve dives somewhere, anyways you are correct I do indeed have 60. In retrospect I now feel more than a bit stupid.

It's all good. We had a guy that did underwater bridge inspection or something. I don't know if he posted recently but I'll try and look up his username. He might be the person to ask about commercial diving.

gently caress it i'm editing again: "Diver Dick" is the poster who does commercial stuff although others around here might as well. He has plat if you want to PM him.

Bishop fucked around with this message at 03:14 on May 27, 2013

# ? May 27, 2013 00:21

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# ? May 10, 2024 20:48

SlicerDicer: Oct 31, 2010; PAILOLO CHANNEL

East gales to 35 kt. Wind waves 17 ft. Scattered showers.

Its time to DIVE

Bishop,

After diving with bail gasses and redundant gas sources. I get highly paranoid without redundant gas sources..

But you know reality is that OOG is not common unless you are a absolute idiot. Even if you blow a hose something fierce.. you can grab your own octo breathe it and then let the gasses go as they may and swim to your buddy. This wont just bleed instantly it takes time.

Thanks for showing your hoses too thats educational

# ? May 27, 2013 08:50

Tomberforce: May 30, 2006

Aquila posted:

Well actually I am feeling that my OW course didn't have enough safety stuff. I will probably do what you suggest though. I am thinking of doing my AOW in a few months, maybe I will convince one of the DM's or DMC's from my LDS to come out a day early and help me practice safety stuff.

Note that I don't feel like I'm unsafe in the water, I just think since nothing's really gone wrong on any of my dives I could stand to practice safety stuff more.

Nah it's great that you're thinking about these things as a new diver. As I said before, they are skills that need practising in real diving situations, not on your knees in a circle with an instructor next to you.

Ideally you want to be to a level of comfort where, should an errant fin from another diver smack you in the face, knock your reg out and flood your mask(it happens) you are comfortable enough to deal with it appropriately. You should find an enthusiastic DMC who wants to go and practise skills. I'm sure if you live near anyone from this thread they'd be happy to dive with you.

# ? May 27, 2013 14:24

Bangkero: Dec 28, 2005; I baptize thee
not in the name of the father
but in the name of the devil.

Bishop posted:

What bugs me is not taking issues with someone's setup, but "I would not let you in the water as a DM" is a pretty strong statement, especially for something I see as a minor modification that makes his rig overall more streamlined.

Edit for some non-snarky content: In a real OH poo poo ALL OF THE SUDDEN I CANT BREATHE type OOG emergency, the diver (If we are talking about the type of divers who need instructors and DMs with them) is much more likely to panic and bolt, plus they are probably 5-10 feet from their buddy so the swim towards them is much more of a danger than that last few inches. If it's a situation where someone knows they are about to run out, I think the diference in hose length is trivial.

Well said. Plus seriously no one gives a poo poo who you will and who you won't dive with.

# ? May 27, 2013 17:45

DeadlyMuffin: Jul 3, 2007

pupdive posted:

Using a standard length hose and an inflator reg will bite you hard in the rear end some day.

You would certainly not be getting in the water as a DM with me with that rig. There is a reason why octo regs have long hoses.

My understanding is that one of the original reasons for a long hose was to allow people to share air while swimming single file, like in a cave. Personally I've found them nice for casually sharing air between divers who are mismatched on consumption during recreational dives. However, in an emergency in open water I fail to see how the long hose provides much of an advantage. You're still vulnerable if a panicked diver has you by the long hose.

And really, since most recreational rigs I've seen have short hoses doesn't it make sense for the DM to match your students if they're going to be demoing?

# ? May 27, 2013 17:56

SlicerDicer: Oct 31, 2010; PAILOLO CHANNEL

East gales to 35 kt. Wind waves 17 ft. Scattered showers.

Its time to DIVE

Hope you guys enjoy, this is 3 months of the same dive site over and over and over

https://vimeo.com/67077955

# ? May 27, 2013 21:07

pupdive: Jun 13, 2012

DeadlyMuffin posted:

My understanding is that one of the original reasons for a long hose was to allow people to share air while swimming single file, like in a cave. Personally I've found them nice for casually sharing air between divers who are mismatched on consumption during recreational dives. However, in an emergency in open water I fail to see how the long hose provides much of an advantage. You're still vulnerable if a panicked diver has you by the long hose.

And really, since most recreational rigs I've seen have short hoses doesn't it make sense for the DM to match your students if they're going to be demoing?

People who don't longer hoses are necessary for OOA situations have simply never been in an actual OOA situation, and have only done the kneeling in a pool practice.

Recreational gear (hell all scuba gear) has a longer hose for the donated reg, which is usually the octo. (Especially for the American setup where the octo is uselessly mounted on the right, making a huge loop that pulls the reg out of the OOA divers mouth in actual times pof need.)

People (who think about their gear and) use an alternate inflator reg realize they need to put their primary on a octo or greater length hose to restore a safe air sharing length, and then run the hose under their arm usually with a swivel, or use a Hogarthian loop on a 5 footer. At the DM level, it should be a given that this does not need to be explained. Fake vomit for rescue courses is fun, but safely being able to share air in an actual OOA situation is far, far more important. The reason I criticized the level of planning in fancying up a rescue course comes from things like this: the basics have to be sound, or the fancy stuff is just silly. Spending time worried about fake vomit instead of first making sure one's own gear is squared away first, is missing the point of the rescue course: To prepare and dive so as to prevent problems and then handle them smoothly, and then after that is squared away to do the theatre stuff. But that's what happens when training is not focused on the details. Open Water Divers are allowed to make low function gear choices. By DM, they should have figured this poo poo out themselves, but certainly that's where a well-run Rescue Course should be working these problems out for both students and staff.

Bishop posted:

What bugs me is not taking issues with someone's setup, but "I would not let you in the water as a DM" is a pretty strong statement, especially for something I see as a minor modification that makes his rig overall more streamlined.

If you think OOA is not life and death, then you have not seen it in real life. Diving is safe and easy, but a big part of why it is that way is because pros who do it for a living think about this stuff. Someone who is a DM is nominally a professional level diver, and their gear needs to reflect the other diver's needs not theirs.

As a recreational diver, I don't care if you even have an octo. That's my job. But ss a pro, having a useless length octo is not OK. It's like put a Comfo-Bite on a primary one gives away: It's just not thinking about others. An Open Water diver should be concerned mostly about themselves. A DM, or even just a Rescue Diver, needs to have their focus outwards.

# ? May 28, 2013 04:59

SlicerDicer: Oct 31, 2010; PAILOLO CHANNEL

East gales to 35 kt. Wind waves 17 ft. Scattered showers.

Its time to DIVE

Pupdive, if for nothing else they need to be concerned about others for liability standpoint alone.

# ? May 28, 2013 05:29

Frozen Pizza Party: Dec 13, 2005

The way I was instructed was octo on the left, primary over the shoulder and secondary below that as to not cause any entanglement when pulled.

# ? May 28, 2013 05:38

Orions Lord: May 21, 2012

pupdive posted:

Using a standard length hose and an inflator reg will bite you hard in the rear end some day.

You would certainly not be getting in the water as a DM with me with that rig. There is a reason why octo regs have long hoses.

For shallow dives just looking at coral and some fish this is a ok setup for me.
But I have to be honest doing other stuff then that I would not be an happy bunny having this setup next to me.

# ? May 28, 2013 08:54

Bishop: Aug 15, 2000

pupdive posted:

(Especially for the American setup where the octo is uselessly mounted on the right, making a huge loop that pulls the reg out of the OOA divers mouth in actual times pof need.)

Not on Crunkjuice's rig... he donates his primary which he knows is working while switching to his secondary on the BCD hose. Does that make up for the four inches?

pupdive posted:

If you think OOA is not life and death, then you have not seen it in real life. Diving is safe and easy, but a big part of why it is that way is because pros who do it for a living think about this stuff. Someone who is a DM is nominally a professional level diver, and their gear needs to reflect the other diver's needs not theirs.

Well of course a sudden OOG situation is a big deal, what I meant by "life and death" is the hose length difference. Making hay over 4 inches is some sort of weird new recreational version of being a GUE kool aid drinker.

Once again:

This is a reg setup I bought in full from a shop, so I'm assuming the hoses are all standard, at least in America. Other basic scuba setups I come across back that up.

I played with it for a minute and quite frankly found donating either hose a bit awkward, but most open water divers in OOG situations are lucky enough to hug onto the person with gas and make a safe ascent.

Now... I'd lay a lot of money on the swim to the person with gas while resisting the urge to bolt being much more dangerous than having 4 less inches of hose to work with, especially if the donor is DM level or above.

Bishop fucked around with this message at 22:34 on May 28, 2013

# ? May 28, 2013 22:18

Crunkjuice: Apr 4, 2007; That could've gotten in my eye!
*launches teargas at unarmed protestors*

I THINK OAKLAND PD'S USE OF EXCESSIVE FORCE WAS JUSTIFIED!

I'm of the opinion that 4 inches of hose is not a life or death difference. In all my OOA experiences (probably around a dozen), not once have i thought "my god 4 inches of extra hose would have made a huge difference in my ability to give air and save this persons life". Its a 36 inch miflex hose, and it works just fine. Hell, the fact that its a miflex hose alone makes it easier to use than a standard hose for how flexible it is.

Not putting a comfo bite mouthpiece on your primary for the possibility of a rescue scenario is overkill too. 99.99% of my dives are incident free (as are yours most likely) and to have an uncomfortable mouthpiece 100% of the time is unnecessary. And for the record, i don't actually use comfo bites on my gear so thats not applicable to me. I use http://www.scubatoys.com/store/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=Comfort_Cushion_Mouthpiece .

Also, thanks for making me laugh when talking about hogarthian anything for recreational scuba gear dude. Talk about red flags on identifying divers...

edit: Seriously, i'm just going to rail on that loving hogarthian method bullshit. http://aquatec.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/explanation-of-hogarthian-way-billy-williams.pdf I'll save you the trouble but read this excerpt.

A huge arrogant piece of poo poo posted:

Finally, the First Rule of Hogarthian diving is possibly the most important piece of wisdom in the diving world, and is something we should all apply to all of our diving. It is, simply, 'Don't dive with strokes.'
The term 'stroke' refers to someone who, knowing there is a better system, chooses to dive in a less than optimal way. It applies to those instructors who encourage students (who know no better) to exercise Personal Preference, in order to sell more equipment; it applies to those who don't plan their dives; those who dive beyond their abilities; who dive deep on air; who take unnecessary risks; who do big dives using unfamiliar gear; who's only reason for diving is depth.
Diving with strokes moves us into an area where our safety is no longer in our own hands. Strokes are sometimes highly 'qualified'. Often they seem very confident - usually because they have no concept of the danger they are getting themselves, and you, into. Strokes appeal to your sense of adventure while pretending to adhere to some standard of common sense. In groups, strokes are capable of exerting extreme peer pressure. And in case you believe you are immune to strokism, just remember that two of the leading diving explorers of our times, Rob Palmer and Rob Parker, recently succumbed to peer pressure and died on deep-air dives. So whatever else you do, remember the penultimate rule of Hogarthian diving and apply it with no exceptions: Don't dive with strokes. They're out there. And they will kill you.
Billy Williams

The sheer loving arrogance of this method is appalling. Oh, and if you dive a computer for nitrox without a laminated set of tables with you? You are a stroke and are excercising "personal preference" and will kill someone. Do you dive without a backplate and wing? Well obviously you are just dumb as gently caress and let the hogarthian method tell you why! I loving hate arrogant tec divers for this loving reason and pupdive is THE PERFECT EXAMPLE of this by telling me he wouldn't let me in the water because my primary hose is 4 inches shorter than he wants. Recreational divers want to go play with pretty fish and have a good time, not get yelled at by wannabe navy seals for not diving exactly the way they want.

But don't listen to me kids. Listen to uncle billy williams when he says "There is Hogarth, and there is second best".

Crunkjuice fucked around with this message at 22:50 on May 28, 2013

# ? May 28, 2013 22:32

Bishop: Aug 15, 2000

I dive a rig that beyond the deco computer, is pretty much HOG/DIR/GUE (the terms are interchangable) and I have to actually reassure people that I don't care that they do things a bit different. It happens almost every time I dive with new people and they see my rig and Halcyon branded stuff. God help me if I bring up fundies. It's actualy kind of annoying that the well has been poisoned so much because I love my setup. This isin't directed at anyone. I was reminded because I just dove with a new shop last week and had to do the "I promise I'm not a DIR NAZI" speech again because they made me take a guide so they could feel me out as a diver.

e: Oh and the stereotype IS real, sadly. I learned that the hard way visiting the GUE nerve center in High Springs, FL.

Bishop fucked around with this message at 23:00 on May 28, 2013

# ? May 28, 2013 22:56

Unimpressed: Feb 13, 2013

Crunkjuice posted:

I'm of the opinion that 4 inches of hose is not a life or death difference. In all my OOA experiences (probably around a dozen), not once have i thought "my god 4 inches of extra hose would have made a huge difference in my ability to give air and save this persons life". Its a 36 inch miflex hose, and it works just fine. Hell, the fact that its a miflex hose alone makes it easier to use than a standard hose for how flexible it is.

Not putting a comfo bite mouthpiece on your primary for the possibility of a rescue scenario is overkill too. 99.99% of my dives are incident free (as are yours most likely) and to have an uncomfortable mouthpiece 100% of the time is unnecessary. And for the record, i don't actually use comfo bites on my gear so thats not applicable to me. I use http://www.scubatoys.com/store/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=Comfort_Cushion_Mouthpiece .

Also, thanks for making me laugh when talking about hogarthian anything for recreational scuba gear dude. Talk about red flags on identifying divers...

edit: Seriously, i'm just going to rail on that loving hogarthian method bullshit. http://aquatec.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/explanation-of-hogarthian-way-billy-williams.pdf I'll save you the trouble but read this excerpt.

The sheer loving arrogance of this method is appalling. Oh, and if you dive a computer for nitrox without a laminated set of tables with you? You are a stroke and are excercising "personal preference" and will kill someone. Do you dive without a backplate and wing? Well obviously you are just dumb as gently caress and let the hogarthian method tell you why! I loving hate arrogant tec divers for this loving reason and pupdive is THE PERFECT EXAMPLE of this by telling me he wouldn't let me in the water because my primary hose is 4 inches shorter than he wants. Recreational divers want to go play with pretty fish and have a good time, not get yelled at by wannabe navy seals for not diving exactly the way they want.

But don't listen to me kids. Listen to uncle billy williams when he says "There is Hogarth, and there is second best".

You guys made me wiki GUE and DIR. Seems that the above quote about "strokes" is from a George M Irvine III. Now, I've only done just over 40 dives so I'm in no way experienced enough to have a sound opinion. But I'm old enough to say that someone who talks in such certainties and in such a way, and calls himself "the Third" to boot, is a right wanker.

# ? May 29, 2013 00:28

raffie: Feb 28, 2004; hopeless incompetent

Hot drat i didn't know asking about hoses would bring about this ongoing discussion.

Just to clarify, i stuck to the learner/rental style setup for my primary and octo when i switched over to the miflex hoses. The only change was to use a shorter spg hose so that i can clip it my chest d-ring without the excess length flopping all over. I'm diving on saturday with another friend who has less experience and hasn't dived for at least six months, so i thought i'd just stick to the usual setup for both her sake and mine, plus i haven't had the time to get a pool session in.

My buddy was still disapproving of my wanting to change up the lengths of the primary/octo, right up till when we got to the shop. He was still telling me to get training first and understanding why the hose lengths were chosen blah blah blah, i figure it's either to GUE kool-aid he's drank in the past or maybe people around here just aren't used to newbie divers doing their own research and deciding on equipment configurations (this is Southeast Asia after all, where all dives are guided dives!).

He's a good friend and i know he's just concerned, so i'll let it drop for now. I don't wanna cause friction in the friendship just because of diving stuff. He's the one who's also been bugging me to sign up for the GUE fundies course/get a Halcyon infinity backplate and also to get a camera so that i can join him in the photography thing, but i'm not really interested in taking pictures and i think i'll be giving the GUE thing a miss (don't drink the kool-aid). I'm still interested in doing some sort of tec intro to build up my skills underwater, but will discuss it with an operator i know who does TDI courses. I might still decide to switch out my hoses when i have the time to do a pool session after but i probably won't be inviting him along to the shop when i do it. We don't dive together often anyways, i'm usually going on dives trips alone (instabuddies!) or with other friends.

# ? May 29, 2013 02:23

SlicerDicer: Oct 31, 2010; PAILOLO CHANNEL

East gales to 35 kt. Wind waves 17 ft. Scattered showers.

Its time to DIVE

Crunkjuice posted:

The sheer loving arrogance of this method is appalling. Oh, and if you dive a computer for nitrox without a laminated set of tables with you? You are a stroke and are excercising "personal preference" and will kill someone. Do you dive without a backplate and wing? Well obviously you are just dumb as gently caress and let the hogarthian method tell you why! I loving hate arrogant tec divers for this loving reason and pupdive is THE PERFECT EXAMPLE of this by telling me he wouldn't let me in the water because my primary hose is 4 inches shorter than he wants. Recreational divers want to go play with pretty fish and have a good time, not get yelled at by wannabe navy seals for not diving exactly the way they want.

But don't listen to me kids. Listen to uncle billy williams when he says "There is Hogarth, and there is second best".

I am a arrogant rear end when it comes to diving at my normal dive site.

1) the current was so strong today that it was literally a bastard to get around. The OC guys went halfway to Halawa Valley LOL.. Maybe 1 mile in a 30 min dive? No matter the current my buddy and I MAKE it work and come up the same spot... even if that means working harder than any human being should
2) there is crazy sized sharks.. people panic, freak, whatever...
3) We took a diver with us who ran a dive shop and he nearly got killed.
4) Its hard to jump into workload like that and just dive.
5) crapton more reasons.

Having said that most any other dive site I have very few issues with diving with other people. I will just do it and not be all whiney whiney!

DIRtards are exactly the reason I carry a big rear end knife! Ohh and I should have died long ago I am the anti-dir/gue

Mr.AARP posted:

Could you make a post (in this thread or your shark thread) detailing just how you got into rebreather diving/advanced tec diving? I feel like it would be really informative and entertaining to see the process of going from open circuit to, as Crunkjuice very accurately puts it, the Tony Stark of tec diving.

Posted in Shark Thread

SlicerDicer fucked around with this message at 05:44 on May 29, 2013

# ? May 29, 2013 04:04

Bishop: Aug 15, 2000

Still waiting to see if I get any pics of me (I should), but here is one from a dive I did last week. Me and my buddy found two Moray eels and a Nurse shark engaged in a "non-traditional" relationship. Photo taken around 130' under the Duane wreck. This is what happens when you let the gays marry! Eel on shark action.

I know nothing about underwater photography so I wasn't sure if I should be helping to light the subject or not so blame me for using my can light to make the lighting a little odd.

E: It just occured to me that the eel on the left is telling us to :frogout:

before things get too freaky.

Bishop fucked around with this message at 15:12 on May 29, 2013

# ? May 29, 2013 14:02

Unimpressed: Feb 13, 2013

Bishop posted:

Still waiting to see if I get any pics of me (I should), but here is one from a dive I did last week. Me and my buddy found two Moray eels and a Nurse shark engaged in a "non-traditional" relationship. Photo taken around 130' under the Duane wreck. This is what happens when you let the gays marry! Eel on shark action.

I know nothing about underwater photography so I wasn't sure if I should be helping to light the subject or not so blame me for using my can light to make the lighting a little odd.

E: It just occured to me that the eel on the left is telling us to before things get too freaky.

Is it just me, or might the eel be a necrophile? The shark looks dead. That's some powerful light you have there, my photos at that depth (with a pathetic little torch) are all heavily blue-green tinged. Great shot!

# ? May 29, 2013 23:49

Bishop: Aug 15, 2000

Thanks! It wasn't my shot, it was my dive buddy's. It was a clear day so there was a good deal of ambient light (even tucked under the wreck like that) but the rest is a combination of my primary cannister light and the strobes on his camera. The beam of my can light is basically on the shark's face. Also everything was very much alive in that pic, nurse sharks tend to settle down on the sand like rays and eels do. We spent about 10 minutes on those fish alone, as well as another eel on the oppisite side. There were some other good shark encounters as well. I'm hoping to get more of his pictures, most importantly the ones of me diving

Bishop fucked around with this message at 00:06 on May 30, 2013

# ? May 30, 2013 00:02

SlicerDicer: Oct 31, 2010; PAILOLO CHANNEL

East gales to 35 kt. Wind waves 17 ft. Scattered showers.

Its time to DIVE

Unimpressed posted:

Is it just me, or might the eel be a necrophile? The shark looks dead. That's some powerful light you have there, my photos at that depth (with a pathetic little torch) are all heavily blue-green tinged. Great shot!

Ambient is powerful if you know how to use it. 90% of my stuff is ambient at 30-35m

Older shot of mine sadly vis has been awful this year.. 80ft at best.. LOL

# ? May 30, 2013 00:16

cheese: Jan 7, 2004; Shop around for doctors! Always fucking shop for doctors. Doctors are stupid assholes. And they get by because people are cowed by their mystical bullshit quality of being able to maintain a 3.0 GPA at some Guatemalan medical college for 3 semesters. Find one that makes sense.

So I've been doing a lot of reading about freediving and have convinced a friend of mine to get started with me. The breathing exercises (breath up, apnea walk training, etc) have been going great, and family friend of mine who did SCUBA back in the day is so excited about me getting involved in watery adventures that hes offered to pay for a 7mm suit for me (I live in the SF bay area). We went to a place with a 12 foot pool to do some practice/get our feet wet (I had to say it) and I'm having a big problem with equalization - namely, my left ear just WILL NOT loving equalize.

I should add that I have done some reading and understand that Frenzel is the preferred method, especially if you ever want to go deep. I'm working on some tips for controlling the two thingy's in your mouth but am not there yet. My right ear equalizes like a champ with very little effort with Valsalva and I can pop it rapidly with only a modest exhale on my closed nose. The left just gives no fucks and generally refuses to go. When it does, its because I'm blowing as hard as I can and its a very sharp and strange pop. The only way I can usually get it to go is without that is the Toynbee (pinch nose and swallow) but that feels uncomfortable after the first clear.

After researching it further, I've come to the conclusion that my bad spring allergies (I take a benedryll each morning) and a series of bad ear infections when I was kid (I had tubes put in) could be the culprits. I wanted to ask for help before coughing up for a doctor visit. I'm still having a lot of fun with the breathing and relaxation, and we can do that stuff in the pool, but I'm going to have to get this solved before I go any deeper than ~10 feet (the depth at which I don't feel comfortable doing the Toynbee). Thoughts? Help, I want to swim in the pacific and shoot things with spears while being one with nature.

# ? May 30, 2013 00:51

Bishop: Aug 15, 2000

Slicer I really like that shot. The guy I was diving with was on an ambient photography kick but I think he did appreciate me adding some light in the eel/shark threesome photo.

Cheese, If you are in the bay area there should be a doctor around that knows hyperbaric medicine as it applies to divers. I don't feel qualified to say anything but this: I had a lot of ear infections when I was like 2-6 years old and that did not effect me. Also it seems that with time, equalizing becomes easier. Probably because I abuse my sinuses so much. Anyways look up a doctor in your area and ask for some advice. DAN's website can probably get you a contact. If you want to get an opinion without spending any money check scubaboard and post a question there. Also maybe somebody can chime in here.

In other news I just ordered a pair of Dive Rite fins, no need to specify the model, they only make one fin. I got to try them out on a couple dives and they are exactly what I like. Spring heel, stiff as poo poo and long (lol), but not as heavy as jet fins. Buying new fins was an ordeal for me as strange as that sounds. My last pair gave me 16 years of service. The Dive Rite fin gives me the stifness to execute the more complex kicks and is still long enough to generate power in open ocean diving.

Bishop fucked around with this message at 01:48 on May 30, 2013

# ? May 30, 2013 01:26

cheese: Jan 7, 2004; Shop around for doctors! Always fucking shop for doctors. Doctors are stupid assholes. And they get by because people are cowed by their mystical bullshit quality of being able to maintain a 3.0 GPA at some Guatemalan medical college for 3 semesters. Find one that makes sense.

Thanks. I think I'm just not 100% if blowing that hard to clear the other ear with Valsalva is ok. It feels like I'm REALLY hammering it before it goes and it feels not only dangerous, but exhausting.

# ? May 30, 2013 01:37

Bishop: Aug 15, 2000

I'm not going to go hunting around for you (I'm not that bored.... yet.), but here's a thread on scubaboard that looks like a good place to start. http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/norcal/87155-san-francisco-dive-doctor-wanted.html

Also Cru Jones: is it OK if I throw one of your pics into the OP?

Bishop fucked around with this message at 01:54 on May 30, 2013

# ? May 30, 2013 01:47

Crunkjuice: Apr 4, 2007; That could've gotten in my eye!
*launches teargas at unarmed protestors*

I THINK OAKLAND PD'S USE OF EXCESSIVE FORCE WAS JUSTIFIED!

cheese posted:

Thanks. I think I'm just not 100% if blowing that hard to clear the other ear with Valsalva is ok. It feels like I'm REALLY hammering it before it goes and it feels not only dangerous, but exhausting.

I would say spend more time trying. Comfort level/experience could play into it. It shouldn't need to be said but go slowly. If you think you're blowing to on hard then you probably are.

If you can't figure it out on your own, find an ent doc who's familiar with dive medicine. Being the bay area that won't be a problem. Equalization is a bitch for some people and its tough to really know what's going on since everyone's sinuses are so different.

# ? May 30, 2013 02:16

SlicerDicer: Oct 31, 2010; PAILOLO CHANNEL

East gales to 35 kt. Wind waves 17 ft. Scattered showers.

Its time to DIVE

Bishop posted:

In other news I just ordered a pair of Dive Rite fins, no need to specify the model, they only make one fin. I got to try them out on a couple dives and they are exactly what I like. Spring heel, stiff as poo poo and long (lol), but not as heavy as jet fins. Buying new fins was an ordeal for me as strange as that sounds. My last pair gave me 16 years of service. The Dive Rite fin gives me the stifness to execute the more complex kicks and is still long enough to generate power in open ocean diving.

Pfft what kinda tec diver does not use jets.

And yes they are heavy as all hell my buddy keeps trying to convince me to use the plastic OMS variant.

# ? May 30, 2013 02:21

Tomberforce: May 30, 2006

So I'm thinking about migrating over to some fairly mild tech-diving by doing the TDI advanced nitrox and deco procedures course. I'm more interested in carrying out deco dives at recreational depths on air (30 - 40 metres) with accelerated decompression on nitrox then I am in doing any crazy mixed gas deep diving for the moment.

The problem is that I'm probably going to have to replace most of my dive gear! I imagine it's going to necessitate me buying a twinset, though maybe I could save some money by sidemounting - but am I right in thinking then I lose the redundancy that comes with an isolation manifold? Also I imagine if I'm carrying some stage bottles side mounting my main tanks on the side would get pretty clunky? I also need to change my BC over to a backplate wing setup, and probably buy another reg set, and possibly an o2 clean reg for my deco gasses? And then there's the hose length issue, but I don't really want to open that can of worms again, haha! I don't use jets, but I've got a pair of the Hollis F1 tech fins, which are pretty much the same thing but more badass looking!

I've also got a question for the instructors here - do you reckon if I migrate my setup over to a tech orientated one, do you think I'd also be able to run that system while working as a recreational divemaster? I guess I can always grab hire stuff from the shop, which I do for pool sessions anyhow, but I wouldn't really like to dive guide wearing hire gear.

# ? May 30, 2013 02:43

Mongoose: Jul 7, 2005

cheese posted:

So I've been doing a lot of reading about freediving and have convinced a friend of mine to get started with me. The breathing exercises (breath up, apnea walk training, etc) have been going great, and family friend of mine who did SCUBA back in the day is so excited about me getting involved in watery adventures that hes offered to pay for a 7mm suit for me (I live in the SF bay area). We went to a place with a 12 foot pool to do some practice/get our feet wet (I had to say it) and I'm having a big problem with equalization - namely, my left ear just WILL NOT loving equalize.

I should add that I have done some reading and understand that Frenzel is the preferred method, especially if you ever want to go deep. I'm working on some tips for controlling the two thingy's in your mouth but am not there yet. My right ear equalizes like a champ with very little effort with Valsalva and I can pop it rapidly with only a modest exhale on my closed nose. The left just gives no fucks and generally refuses to go. When it does, its because I'm blowing as hard as I can and its a very sharp and strange pop. The only way I can usually get it to go is without that is the Toynbee (pinch nose and swallow) but that feels uncomfortable after the first clear.

After researching it further, I've come to the conclusion that my bad spring allergies (I take a benedryll each morning) and a series of bad ear infections when I was kid (I had tubes put in) could be the culprits. I wanted to ask for help before coughing up for a doctor visit. I'm still having a lot of fun with the breathing and relaxation, and we can do that stuff in the pool, but I'm going to have to get this solved before I go any deeper than ~10 feet (the depth at which I don't feel comfortable doing the Toynbee). Thoughts? Help, I want to swim in the pacific and shoot things with spears while being one with nature.

I haven't posted in this thread yet, but I'm a hobbyist freediver in central TX (yeah, it sucks). I'm in agreement with everyone saying to practice more with soft pressurization and possibly see a doctor if you can't figure it out safely. This is the most comprehensive instructions with practice exercises and frenzel technique that I've found - http://liquivision.com/docs/Frenzel_Fattah_English_r2006.pdf.

A few other things that no one has mentioned yet: proper hydration will make a world of difference with your ability to equalize, practice popping your ears with muscle control on land to work on eustachian tube elasticity ("shrugging" the tissues at 10-11 o'clock and 1-2 back and up, also moving your jaw forward), when in water equalizing with your head up for a couple descents to make it easier.

Also as a matter of mindset, when preforming the frenzel I find it counter productive to think about palate and epiglottis position. They really tend to sort themselves out once you've practiced a bit on land. Instead I would focus entirely on moving your tongue upwards to get the appropriate effect. If you can successfully control the tongue in the back of the throat and resist the reflex to blow air, it should come together.

Equalizing is a pretty personal thing so you may find different cues help you more, just trying to give you some ideas.

# ? May 30, 2013 02:58

Crunkjuice: Apr 4, 2007; That could've gotten in my eye!
*launches teargas at unarmed protestors*

I THINK OAKLAND PD'S USE OF EXCESSIVE FORCE WAS JUSTIFIED!

Tomberforce posted:

I've also got a question for the instructors here - do you reckon if I migrate my setup over to a tech orientated one, do you think I'd also be able to run that system while working as a recreational divemaster? I guess I can always grab hire stuff from the shop, which I do for pool sessions anyhow, but I wouldn't really like to dive guide wearing hire gear.

For open water classes i say technical gear is a poor choice for a divemaster. For AOW/Rescue classes and guided tours? Depends. Its not a bad thing for continuing ed students to be familiar with tec gear (especially for rescue classes) and guided tours do your own thing. I would say if you do wear it for classes/tours, you better be able to explain everything to your students and make sure they are all familiar with emergency procedures of your gear. If its an AOW class with a bunch of new divers? Probably not. Someone doing a photography specialty with 50+ dives and got a new camera? Probably not a big deal.

Open water students though, thats a lot of crazy poo poo they won't really understand the reasons for, and you'd be better off demonstrating skills/teaching from something they are familiar with. Things like scuba unit remove/replace, weight removal, buddy checks will get complicated for the student.

Crunkjuice fucked around with this message at 03:26 on May 30, 2013

# ? May 30, 2013 03:22

SlicerDicer: Oct 31, 2010; PAILOLO CHANNEL

East gales to 35 kt. Wind waves 17 ft. Scattered showers.

Its time to DIVE

Tomberforce posted:

So I'm thinking about migrating over to some fairly mild tech-diving by doing the TDI advanced nitrox and deco procedures course. I'm more interested in carrying out deco dives at recreational depths on air (30 - 40 metres) with accelerated decompression on nitrox then I am in doing any crazy mixed gas deep diving for the moment.

The problem is that I'm probably going to have to replace most of my dive gear! I imagine it's going to necessitate me buying a twinset, though maybe I could save some money by sidemounting - but am I right in thinking then I lose the redundancy that comes with an isolation manifold? Also I imagine if I'm carrying some stage bottles side mounting my main tanks on the side would get pretty clunky? I also need to change my BC over to a backplate wing setup, and probably buy another reg set, and possibly an o2 clean reg for my deco gasses? And then there's the hose length issue, but I don't really want to open that can of worms again, haha! I don't use jets, but I've got a pair of the Hollis F1 tech fins, which are pretty much the same thing but more badass looking!

I've also got a question for the instructors here - do you reckon if I migrate my setup over to a tech orientated one, do you think I'd also be able to run that system while working as a recreational divemaster? I guess I can always grab hire stuff from the shop, which I do for pool sessions anyhow, but I wouldn't really like to dive guide wearing hire gear.

Just a thought why not just ignore the twinset.. bypass the costs of getting a really nice wing and backplate setup.. And snag a manual rebreather? I mean the KISS does fantastic for those depths you are talking about

Running a BP/Wing with a single then turning it to twinny could be done. I have no idea on what a dive shop would say about a rebreather and leading. I do know that it meets the standard for me as a instructor to LEAD certified divers, teach all but IDC stuff and Open Water on Rebreather. Meaning that I can do everything on a rebreather except Open Water as I am not a course director. The rest is semantics with your dive op.

# ? May 30, 2013 03:34

Mr.AARP: Apr 20, 2010; I was born after Kurt Cobain died. Now you feel old.

Looks like I'll be picking up a Dive Rite Transpac and Rec wing for about $180.

Can't wait to get out of this jacket BC :frogout:

# ? May 30, 2013 03:51

SlicerDicer: Oct 31, 2010; PAILOLO CHANNEL

East gales to 35 kt. Wind waves 17 ft. Scattered showers.

Its time to DIVE

Crunkjuice posted:

Open water students though, thats a lot of crazy poo poo they won't really understand the reasons for, and you'd be better off demonstrating skills/teaching from something they are familiar with. Things like scuba unit remove/replace, weight removal, buddy checks will get complicated for the student.

And thats why its prohibited by PADI Standards.

# ? May 30, 2013 05:47

Crunkjuice: Apr 4, 2007; That could've gotten in my eye!
*launches teargas at unarmed protestors*

I THINK OAKLAND PD'S USE OF EXCESSIVE FORCE WAS JUSTIFIED!

SlicerDicer posted:

And thats why its prohibited by PADI Standards.

Never knew that since i don't dive tec. Looking at the PADI standards now it doesn't specifically outlaw tec gear per se, but standard tec gear violates their equipment standards correct? Only thing i see that violates PADI standards is you need to have a quick release weight system and weights, which in tec is done with steel tanks and your backplate right? Other than that everything tec meets padi standards, so technically if you wear a weight belt with weights with tec gear (or a dui weight harness or something) you'd be within standards.

And of course i'm looking at the old instructor manual and trying to get the new one, i messed up my login and cant look at the current instructor manual for 30 minutes

Crunkjuice fucked around with this message at 06:07 on May 30, 2013

# ? May 30, 2013 06:03

StopShootingMe: Jun 8, 2004; I can't believe I spent $5 on this title.

Just bought my first set of gear, I've gone for a pretty conventional recreational setup which leans towards lightweight for travel, hopefully my first dive with the new kit will be on Saturday on the Ex-HMAS Brisbane.

Oh Jesus, while searching for that page I found that PADI offer an Ex-HMAS Brisbane specialty course with card :psyduck:

Is there any sub-sub-sub specialty PADI won't try to make a dollar off of?

# ? May 30, 2013 12:21

Tomberforce: May 30, 2006

StopShootingMe posted:

Oh Jesus, while searching for that page I found that PADI offer an Ex-HMAS Brisbane specialty course with card Is there any sub-sub-sub specialty PADI won't try to make a dollar off of?

Nahhh, surely not! It must be either a wreck or nitrox speciality offered on that dive site, PADI don't do specialities focussed on a single site!

edit: Also hi fellow Aussie diver

Tomberforce fucked around with this message at 14:00 on May 30, 2013

# ? May 30, 2013 13:24

StopShootingMe: Jun 8, 2004; I can't believe I spent $5 on this title.

Tomberforce posted:

Nahhh, surely not! It must be either a wreck or nitrox speciality offered on that dive site, PADI don't do specialities focussed on a single site!

edit: Also hi fellow Aussie diver

Oh hi! Here's the link: http://www.sunreef.com.au/padi-learn-to-dive-scuba-courses-with-sunreef/padi-ex-hmas-brisbane-speciality/

I hope it's just a poorly written course guide, and not that PADI are allowing local operators to mint entirely new specialties... Really wouldn't surprise me all that much.

# ? May 30, 2013 14:28

Tomberforce: May 30, 2006

StopShootingMe posted:

Oh hi! Here's the link: http://www.sunreef.com.au/padi-learn-to-dive-scuba-courses-with-sunreef/padi-ex-hmas-brisbane-speciality/

I hope it's just a poorly written course guide, and not that PADI are allowing local operators to mint entirely new specialties... Really wouldn't surprise me all that much.

Whaa! Yeah it certainly sounds like it. That's weird. In WA we have two comparable dive wrecks to the Brisbane, the HMAS Swan and the HMAS Perth but no-one runs speciality courses about them that I've seen here.

PADI's well known for its joke speciality courses though. I wonder how many people a year they get paying for a 'boat diver' course...

# ? May 30, 2013 14:41

Cru Jones: Mar 28, 2007; Cowering behind a shield of hope and Obamanium

Bishop posted:

I'm not going to go hunting around for you (I'm not that bored.... yet.), but here's a thread on scubaboard that looks like a good place to start. http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/norcal/87155-san-francisco-dive-doctor-wanted.html

Also Cru Jones: is it OK if I throw one of your pics into the OP?

Absolutely.

# ? May 30, 2013 14:47

Bishop: Aug 15, 2000

/\ Thanks! /\

Tomberforce posted:

So I'm thinking about migrating over to some fairly mild tech-diving

...The problem is that I'm probably going to have to replace most of my dive gear!

EJECT! EJECT! (poo poo isn't cheap, I'll have a more substantive response when I have time later

)

SlicerDicer posted:

Pfft what kinda tec diver does not use jets.

And yes they are heavy as all hell my buddy keeps trying to convince me to use the plastic OMS variant.

I think divers that often dive dry like jets more because they offset some of the weight. When diving wet, I've always found jets too heavy. They tend to make me drop my fins too low. I could probably get used to them but why do it when another spring heel stiff fin is out there made for tech divers. Plus I think it generates more power due to being longer than the jets. I also can't see the difference in length being an issue in any overhead situation. If "poo poo I can't fit through here because my fins are too long" enters your head, you probably should not be going through that restriction.

Bishop fucked around with this message at 16:04 on May 30, 2013

# ? May 30, 2013 15:44

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# ? May 10, 2024 20:48

macado: Jun 3, 2003; How to keep an idiot busy, Click here.

Tomberforce posted:

I've also got a question for the instructors here - do you reckon if I migrate my setup over to a tech orientated one, do you think I'd also be able to run that system while working as a recreational divemaster? I guess I can always grab hire stuff from the shop, which I do for pool sessions anyhow, but I wouldn't really like to dive guide wearing hire gear.

I'm not an instructor but I'm a DM who often assists with open water classes in the pool and also assists with open water checkout dives off the boat.

In the pool I like to be in the same equipment as the students so I always grab a rental jacket BCD. It makes it easier to demonstrate PADI skills (E.G. removing BCD, removing weight system, gear assembly/disassembly, etc). It's kind of hard to demonstrate these skills to students if you're in different gear. Plus, I don't like chlorine destroying my own personal gear so I use shop rental gear.

When I'm diving off the boat assisting with students or diving purely for myself then I always dive with my backplate/wing. At this point in the game I feel it's nice to be able to introduce students to another type of setup they may encounter in the wild. If they ask I will briefly explain the differences.

I am not a backplate/wing zealot but I feel they are a good choice, especially for cold water diving.

Getting into tech is certainly not a cheap endeavor. I'm a big fan of traditional backmounted doubles (aka twinset). I'm not sold on sidemount yet to be honest and I don't believe it to be any cheaper than diving a twinset. Used twinsets can be found cheap, at least in the United States.

You'll need at least 3 regulator setups (3 first stages and 3 second stages). Two first stages for your twinset and two second stages plus an additional first and second stage for your deco cylinder (or more..)

This is not including additional deco bottles, stage bottles or backup regulators. In short, you'll have a poo poo load of regulators eventually.

Hollis F1 fins are awesome. You'll be fine with those. Others may argue this but only your deco regulators need to be o2 clean since they're the only regulators that will be seeing high o2 content. Your twinset regulators are fine without being o2 clean.

# ? May 30, 2013 17:37

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