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Rodrigo Diaz posted:Sorry if it felt like I was picking on you, but the popular misconceptions surrounding the Middle Ages have influenced, and in turn been influenced by, Game of Thrones. The fact that it is, to varying degrees, based on the Wars of the Roses makes this even more annoying. So whenever I see someone saying that it is a good facsimile I tend to go all Siege of Manila on them. I've heard that GoT has a lot in common with the Wars of the Roses. Which side ended up with more dragons, then Lancastrians or the Yorkists?
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May 27, 2013 04:30
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Game of Thrones, bah. War in a fantasy setting is most accurately depicted in the works of Terry Pratchett. And so are Famine, Pestilence and Death.
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May 27, 2013 04:40
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Koesj posted:Matterhorn is harrowing. One of the best books I've ever read. Agree 100%. Also "The Things They Carried"
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May 27, 2013 05:17
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Grand Prize Winner posted:I've heard that GoT has a lot in common with the Wars of the Roses. Which side ended up with more dragons, then Lancastrians or the Yorkists? The tudors. One of them even married a witch. sullat fucked around with this message at 06:26 on May 27, 2013 |
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May 27, 2013 05:40
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Best fictional book about War is Blood Meridian.
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May 27, 2013 06:03
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sullat posted:The tudors. One of them even married a witch. That's a mean thing to call Anne Boleyn.
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May 27, 2013 06:27
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Frostwerks posted:Best fictional book about War is Blood Meridian. "It makes no difference what men think of war, said the judge. War endures. As well ask men what they think of stone. War was always here. Before man was, war waited for him. The ultimate trade awaiting its ultimate practitioner. That is the way it was and will be. That way and not some other way."
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May 27, 2013 09:13
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Alekanderu posted:"It makes no difference what men think of war, said the judge. War endures. As well ask men what they think of stone. War was always here. Before man was, war waited for him. The ultimate trade awaiting its ultimate practitioner. That is the way it was and will be. That way and not some other way." This is a war movie literally without blood in it. The main character is a man who's most famous to history for grabbing a candelabrum while they were chopping his leg off to give them more light, and screaming at them that they were doing it wrong, and we show this scene with no blood. I don't know. It's bad from deliberate choice, not out of incompetence. At every turn, they do something different from what I would have done. But there are scenes that stay with me. I will never forget Giovanni laid out in state in the Vatican, alone in vast rooms, with a metallic voice echoing above him, telling out his titles as he lies dead in his armor. I think about this scene every now and then and I am saddened. As the scene is framed he is small, small. Also, I'm pretty sure the director, when he's showing the damage that the new artillery (stand in for nuclear weapons, I think) can do to armor, makes at least one reference to The Terminator. I'm going to go ahead and say that you guys should see this, but I don't know why. HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 10:25 on May 27, 2013 |
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May 27, 2013 09:59
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I actually do want to see it now. It's a well crafted read the whole way through but honestly it was really the small stuff that stuck with me in BM. Also, the combat actually seems really, really realistic. Not your typical western. I still want an HBO series. Found the first part and presumably the rest on youtube: http://youtu.be/OZM4HDRK55s Frostwerks fucked around with this message at 16:01 on May 27, 2013 |
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May 27, 2013 15:58
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HEGEL SMOKE A J posted:There's a movie out there called The Profession of Arms, about the death of Giovanni of the Black Bands. It's not a good movie. I came to post this same exact movie in this thread. In my opinion Profession of Arms is an excellent movie. Good acting and slow scenes. Awesome action when they get there. There is something great about a movie that tells its story slowly and does not resort to fast cut scenes and explosive action. It is a slow, European art movie and good on its own.
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May 27, 2013 20:20
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I pretty much only lurk this thread and I had to crosspost a link to it in CineD for a series I'm doing about great movies on Youtube. Profession of Arms is a great movie.
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May 27, 2013 21:12
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The filming is what bugged me, I think. And not the lack of "explosive action," the lack of any action at all. On the other hand, like I said, any European art movie that quotes The Terminator is a movie you should see at least once.
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May 27, 2013 22:00
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It does come off like an unusually artful TV movie, luckily it's unusual enough that it warrants attention. It reminds me of Peter Watkins' brilliant Edvard Munch or the equally great Barry Lyndon, though that raises expectations a great deal it's well worth your time. Thanks for directing my attention to this bad boy, this is an awesome thread.
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May 28, 2013 15:25
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Oxford Comma posted:
Tywin is Joffrey's grandfather, not his father.
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May 28, 2013 17:05
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Rodrigo Diaz posted:Sorry if it felt like I was picking on you, but the popular misconceptions surrounding the Middle Ages have influenced, and in turn been influenced by, Game of Thrones. The fact that it is, to varying degrees, based on the Wars of the Roses makes this even more annoying. So whenever I see someone saying that it is a good facsimile I tend to go all Siege of Manila on them. This discussion is probably better suited to whatever thread about GoT, but then again you might just get drawn into a quagmire with a bunch of fans getting defensive. One possible excuse I can think of for the weaknesses you identified in GoT's depiction of feudal society is that the setting was conquered by a foreign dynasty about 200 years ago, who forcefully turned a fractured continent into a single despotic monarchy before settling into a long decline. The Targaryans may have broken up many of the systems under which society in Westeros had been organized, and tried to replace them with an absolutist "do as we say or face the dragons." With the organized church, we it, and the church is only now (as of the most recent book) reestablishing its former influence. After they lost the dragons they hung on through inertia and conventional military power, but that eroded as well by the time of the books. It's possible that they had simply left no one else strong enough to fill the gap, leaving a broken society where might made right and no one group was strong enough to truly rule. Joffrey's absolutist behavior may just kingship in the Targaryan style, for example. Obviously this is an apology for the setting under it's own logic, and doesn't absolve it for the sin of misrepresenting feudal society to the wider audience. Pop culture is probably a source of frustration for a medievalist!
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May 28, 2013 19:59
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EvanSchenck posted:Obviously this is an apology for the setting under it's own logic, and doesn't absolve it for the sin of misrepresenting feudal society to the wider audience. Pop culture is probably a source of frustration for a medievalist! I'm assuming this is tongue in cheek, but it's a fantasy book. It has no obligations whatsoever to represent feudal society accurately.
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May 28, 2013 20:01
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Let's break out of GRRMchat for a while. Who built and maintained the roads in medieval Europe? I get the impression that the old Roman paving was frequently torn up for building materials, but what about the roadbeds themselves. Who kept the navigable? At what point after the fall of Rome did people start maintaining and building them again, and how was that organized? edit: wrong thread, my bad. Grand Prize Winner fucked around with this message at 00:41 on May 29, 2013 |
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May 28, 2013 20:10
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Grand Prize Winner posted:Let's break out of GRRMchat for a while. Who built and maintained the roads in medieval Europe? I get the impression that the old Roman paving was frequently torn up for building materials, but what about the roadbeds themselves. Who kept the navigable? At what point after the fall of Rome did people start maintaining and building them again, and how was that organized? HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:It does come off like an unusually artful TV movie, luckily it's unusual enough that it warrants attention. It reminds me of Peter Watkins' brilliant Edvard Munch or the equally great Barry Lyndon, though that raises expectations a great deal it's well worth your time. Thanks for directing my attention to this bad boy, this is an awesome thread.
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May 28, 2013 20:25
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Grand Prize Winner posted:Let's break out of GRRMchat for a while. Who built and maintained the roads in medieval Europe? I get the impression that the old Roman paving was frequently torn up for building materials, but what about the roadbeds themselves. Who kept the navigable? At what point after the fall of Rome did people start maintaining and building them again, and how was that organized? Perhaps you want to ask this thread.
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May 28, 2013 20:29
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Lester B. Pearson posted:Tywin is Joffrey's grandfather, not his father. His only one, to boot 
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May 28, 2013 20:37
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HEGEL SMOKE A J posted:If you like that, you should really, really see The Duelists. Ridley Scott's first movie, and the screenplay's based on a short story by Joseph Conrad. Except for the 70s facial hair, it's period too. Also a good option in the "Napoleon's-soldiers-go-completely-insane" genre, Passion in the Desert. Course I've seen The Duelists and I agree it's essential. However, I've never seen Passion in the Desert (but I have seen Abel Gance's silent classic Napoleon). e: The Duellists HUNDU THE BEAST GOD fucked around with this message at 23:59 on May 28, 2013 |
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May 28, 2013 21:19
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I enjoy The Duelists myself also.
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May 28, 2013 22:24
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If we're talking fiction books, The 13th Valley by John M. Del Vecchio is a pretty solid read. There's plenty of combat scenes, but it's really great at showing the day to day life of the American infantryman in Vietnam.
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May 29, 2013 01:22
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VikingSkull posted:If we're talking fiction books, The 13th Valley by John M. Del Vecchio is a pretty solid read. There's plenty of combat scenes, but it's really great at showing the day to day life of the American infantryman in Vietnam. Yeah, I'm sure I'm not the first person to make this comparison, but Matterhorn reminded me of the 13th Valley.
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May 29, 2013 01:32
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The Merry Marauder posted:Yeah, I'm sure I'm not the first person to make this comparison, but Matterhorn reminded me of the 13th Valley. I had actually never heard of Matterhorn until I just read the thread, plan on picking it up this weekend. However, if it's like the 13th Valley, I'm not sure I want to read it. 
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May 29, 2013 01:33
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Is there any go to book or series of books covering the entirety of the Napoleonic Wars?
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May 29, 2013 01:44
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VikingSkull posted:I had actually never heard of Matterhorn until I just read the thread, plan on picking it up this weekend. However, if it's like the 13th Valley, I'm not sure I want to read it. It ain't uplifting, but gently caress it, man, doan' mean nuthin'. Shimrra Jamaane posted:Is there any go to book or series of books covering the Napoleonic Wars? Historical fiction? A bunch. A huge number if you enjoy sea stories.
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May 29, 2013 01:46
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Can someone tell me about Grenadier regiments? I've not seen them shown in any popular media so I'm having a hard time working out what they did exactly. Am I to understand they had no guns, but threw grenades into enemy troops in Napoleonic battles? Or had they already switched to being a normal regiment by this time?
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May 29, 2013 02:21
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Bitter Mushroom posted:Can someone tell me about Grenadier regiments? I've not seen them shown in any popular media so I'm having a hard time working out what they did exactly. Am I to understand they had no guns, but threw grenades into enemy troops in Napoleonic battles? Or had they already switched to being a normal regiment by this time? Rent-A-Cop fucked around with this message at 02:36 on May 29, 2013 |
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May 29, 2013 02:33
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Rent-A-Cop posted:19th century grenadiers didn't actually use grenades, they were the designated shock troops. Soldiers in grenadier companies were selected for size and experience and used when getting in on top of the enemy and beating him to death with a musket butt was the preferred offensive tactic. And you don't just throw them, you can also fire them out of grenade launchers:   http://therifleshoppe.com/catalog_pages/hand_mortar/hand_mortar_(819).htm
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May 29, 2013 02:51
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Is there any go to book or series of books covering the entirety of the Napoleonic Wars? The Patrick O'Brian novels start in, I think, 1803 and go until the end. Of course, the Napoleonic Wars is sort of what's going on in the background, but still, it's a good series.
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May 29, 2013 03:27
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I recommend this if you like alternate history fiction, by harry turtledove. http://www.amazon.com/The-Iron-Heart-Harry-Turtledove/dp/B007MXWE2K
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May 29, 2013 03:57
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Rent-A-Cop posted:19th century grenadiers didn't actually use grenades, they were the designated shock troops. Soldiers in grenadier companies were selected for size and experience and used when getting in on top of the enemy and beating him to death with a musket butt was the preferred offensive tactic. Napoleonic Grenadiers were also usually held in reserve during the battles and sent in at critical moments. They were more Shock Elite troops in this era that demolitions specialists of the past.
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May 29, 2013 03:59
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sullat posted:The Patrick O'Brian novels start in, I think, 1803 and go until the end. Of course, the Napoleonic Wars is sort of what's going on in the background, but still, it's a good series. What the, no I mean actual nonfiction history.
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May 29, 2013 04:13
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:What the, no I mean actual nonfiction history. Osprey Publishing had a four book series on the Napoleonic Wars. They're short books and not particularly in depth, but they're a good place to get you footing before reading something more weighty. http://www.ospreypublishing.com/store/The-Napoleonic-Wars-(4)_9781841764313
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May 29, 2013 05:28
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I'd like to make a strong warning about buying Osprey milhist books on Kindle. I can't speak to the quality of the print material but the way they format maps (chopping up a large map into 6 or so pages without any concern for if the cut lines run right through a valuable piece of information like an X or a squad) makes them unreadable on Kindle. I basically have to screenshot each page and photoshop it into a coherent map to actually make sense of it. There is a little "thumbnail" on each page that shows the entire map but it's zoomed out so far and is so low res that it's basically useless.  Like what the poo poo am I supposed to do with this "page"? It's just super lazy and not acceptable for a digital product that costs  They didn't respond to my polite and constructive email about this matter either 
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May 29, 2013 06:42
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Osprey, A decent light source of mil hist stuff but a lot of us will agree they do need to try harder sometimes. They have a pretty good drat artists with an eye for detail though. Look at all them ~uniforms~ and ~weapons~.
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May 29, 2013 15:42
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SeanBeansShako posted:Osprey, A decent light source of mil hist stuff but a lot of us will agree they do need to try harder sometimes. Oh, for sure. I wouldn't use them for anything beyond a "hey that looks interesting, I'd like to learn more about that" *goes and buys a proper, in-depth history book* And yes, they do have pretty pictures.
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May 29, 2013 17:27
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I'm always more interested in the tables of organization and equipment. I don't care too much for the uniforms.
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May 29, 2013 19:55
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I really enjoyed the one on the Reiselaeufer. And the one on the earliest history of handguns. But I don't read books with pictures in them on Kindle either.
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May 29, 2013 20:54
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