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Limits seem like just more bookkeeping and math in an already number-crunchy game. There were things that needed fixing with SR4, but Limits aren't those things.
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May 30, 2013 11:40
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Yes, it really seems like their solution to cutting down the rule bloat was to...add more rules. I guess we'll see when the actual rules are released in a few weeks.
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May 30, 2013 12:58
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Preview #3 is out, this time it's character gen. http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/115061/Shadowrun%2C-Fifth-Edition-Preview-%233 Trolls pay an extra 50% for everything. RIP troll PCs.
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May 31, 2013 02:51
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Bigass Moth posted:Yes, it really seems like their solution to cutting down the rule bloat was to...add more rules. They've stated that they want to streamline character creation while simultaneously upping the gear porniness. You know, often the longest part of chargen.  ... Oh hey speaking of which. Does that include gear? I don't feel like looking through it myself. 
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May 31, 2013 02:54
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I'm glad this is still a preview because one page says trolls pay +100% on lifestyle costs and then the very next page says trolls pay +50% on gear and lifestyle costs. Which is it? Who knows! edit: There's nothing about gear except a list of it in a sample character sheet.
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May 31, 2013 03:09
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Bigass Moth posted:Preview #3 is out, this time it's character gen. Holy poo poo. I guess they had to do something to counterbalance the huge amount of melee damage they can do, now that Strength now directly affects damage output. A troll adept is going to have a shitload of melee damage dice even with the new Physical Limit.
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May 31, 2013 05:46
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I am looking forward to building a troll adept, but between likely having Resources E, and the Troll extra cost for equipment the character is likely going to be in little more than rags. Let's see: Race A, Magic B, Attributes C, Skills D, Resources E. Or Race A, Attributes B, Magic C spending special points from Race A to get Magic up, Skills D, Resources E.
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May 31, 2013 05:52
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Looks like melee adepts and mystic adepts got a few boosts, which is what they needed.
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May 31, 2013 06:46
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Hmm looks like I could actually go Magic D for Adept, then just spend the 5 special ability points from Race A Troll to up Magic to 6 and Edge to 1, unless Magic can actually go up to 7. Someone on another forum said that magic could be raised to 7 but I am not sure where they got that. When there was first the talk about the limits I was worried the melee adept would be screwed, but it sounds like that may have just been for individual premade characters.
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May 31, 2013 07:20
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The confusion between splitting your magic and all that for mystic adepts is also gone. So it looks like they're non-astral mages who can also buy adept powers, while adepts get their powers for "Free" and mages are fully astral, unless I'm wrong. Also trolls will start with bare bones because...well, consider a troll with that big fat gently caress-off axe. We may be back to the era of "THE TROLL HAS AN AXE - FORGET THE CAR, IT WON'T HELP."
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May 31, 2013 07:34
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Yes, if Mystic Adepts actually operate how they are presented in this preview, every team will have several of them. 6 Magic and a bunch of spells for casting, spend 12 karma and also receive 6 power points? Can you say broken??? But you can't astrally project...darn, I guess your team of spirits will have to do recon for you.
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May 31, 2013 11:34
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Bigass Moth posted:spend 12 karma and also receive 6 power points? Can you say broken???
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May 31, 2013 14:15
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Nyaa posted:You start Char gen with 25 karma, so that's half of your creation points to buy that 6 power point, which is drat expansive. So I think it's fair on paper compare to adept getting it for free. You can get more karma from Negative Qualities. Until we see the full rules it's hard to speculate exactly what value can be placed on anything, but it immediately looks like Mystic Adepts are overpowered since they can cheaply get the best of both worlds.
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May 31, 2013 14:22
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Bigass Moth posted:You can get more karma from Negative Qualities. Until we see the full rules it's hard to speculate exactly what value can be placed on anything, but it immediately looks like Mystic Adepts are overpowered since they can cheaply get the best of both worlds. But I agree the magic is too good on the M. Adept. Edit: Looking at the comparison chart again, Magician gets free formula at char gen. So that's another extra cost for M. Adept to spend karma on. Edit 2: So M. Adept is overall better but it needs to pay for a lot of karma to be catch up to the other 'class' which they get stuff for free. Nyaa fucked around with this message at 16:21 on May 31, 2013 |
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May 31, 2013 16:13
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Nyaa posted:Yes, Negative Quality is limited to 25 karma, so you effectively got 50 karma in char gen if you want to take all the Neg. Quality. You're missing the point. A Mystic Adept can start with (Priority A) 6 Magic, 2 rt 5 magic skills, and 10 spells PLUS 6 points of Adept powers for an extra 12 karma (a drop in the bucket). A full-on Magician would never have access to those adept powers. I'm not going to bother going through the thought exercises at this point since we don't know the value of skills or qualities, but you can potentially do some screwy things by taking Magic at B or C and using your racial special attribute points to raise the Magic right back to 6 (for humans especially). Even better, aside from roleplay reasons, every Human in the game should be at the very least an Adept or Aspected Magician, since those are Priority D choices and you can make race an E.
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May 31, 2013 16:26
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Bigass Moth posted:Explainations 
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May 31, 2013 18:05
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Bigass Moth posted:Trolls pay an extra 50% for everything. RIP troll PCs. "Oh no! My 400 nuyen sword now costs SIX HUNDRED Nuyen! How will I live?!" If other factors stay the same, this won't even come close to balancing trolls against humans in the "effective Shadowrunner" stakes.
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May 31, 2013 21:03
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Gort posted:"Oh no! My 400 nuyen sword now costs SIX HUNDRED Nuyen! How will I live?!" Have fun buying Synaptic Boosters, ever, as a troll. Any high-end gear/ware really. Also their lifestyles are +100% which is just another pain in the rear end for a race that really only benefits from two of the less useful attributes in the game (at least in SR4).
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May 31, 2013 21:40
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Ugh. The more I read, the more it looks like SR5 will be an absolute must-skip. Back to SR3 it is. 
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May 31, 2013 22:18
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It has been said that the +50% gear cost is a typo, a holdover from a previous version they were playtesting, and that the only one for dwarf and troll now is the +100% lifestyle cost. I assume Body will still have some importance, not sure how much, but it seems like Strength will play a larger part in melee at least.
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May 31, 2013 22:43
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Ryuujin posted:but it seems like Strength will play a larger part in melee at least.
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May 31, 2013 22:49
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Well it seems like Str may no longer be halved for melee damage, but we will have to see once more stuff is revealed. Is there any indication of when the playtest previews are revealed?
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May 31, 2013 22:51
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Ryuujin posted:Well it seems like Str may no longer be halved for melee damage, but we will have to see once more stuff is revealed. Is there any indication of when the playtest previews are revealed? Quick start rules are supposed to be available in print form at Origins on the 15th, so I assume the actual core rulebook will be available then (or at least the PDF).
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May 31, 2013 22:59
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Oh is the actual game that close to being released? That is cool.
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May 31, 2013 23:00
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Bigass Moth posted:Have fun buying Synaptic Boosters, ever, as a troll. Any high-end gear/ware really. Who needs bio when you've a Trukk O' Drugs 
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Jun 1, 2013 01:14
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Ryuujin posted:Oh is the actual game that close to being released? That is cool. Ugh $60 list price. At least Amazon has it cheaper.
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Jun 3, 2013 20:09
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I need some help coming up with mission types for my players. I currently have: Combat Mage Face Weapon Specialist Generic Combat Monster Troll Drone Rigger Infiltration Specialist My main problem is coming up with missions where everyone (or at least most of the players) has something to do. They're mostly new players so I want their first handful of missions to cover the various common mission types in Shadowrun. Next session I'm good. I have them making a choice between hijacking a truck and doing bodyguard duty for a VIP. Both of those work fine in terms of having something for everyone to do. However one of the things I'm struggling with is putting together a B&E mission. Basically the Face would meet with the Johnson, the Rigger would do some recon, the NPC hacker would do some of the legwork (maybe one of the other party members would hit up contacts too), and the Infiltration Specialist would put on his Chameleon Suit and solo the extraction while everyone else sat in the van and waited for anything to go wrong. That would be boring for half the party. I get kind of the same vibe for a counter-kidnapping mission. It seems like the exact same thing would happen and the combat-oriented people would get bored. Any suggestions?
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Jun 3, 2013 21:10
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Limits explained: http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=38902&view=findpost&p=1230917
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Jun 3, 2013 21:52
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Elephant Ambush posted:Any suggestions? Those simple missions they were doing for some money? Well, now they are doing them as part of the legwork. That way you can make the legwork phase more complicated by adding different type of challenge in order to force your team to work together on the legwork phase instead of just working alone until the run. Your face needs the other to play bodyguards while he is getting some needed info from some criminal source, the contact of a contact. Make the rival of the criminal attacks while they are having a chat with the criminal contact. Your hacker knows where the old as hell data is: in a old municipal outdated database. Some gangs is just next door and they hate your team for whatever reasons. You need the help of some unhelpful politician for your run to work? You need some dirt to get it out of the scumbag: Infiltration, hacking, drone surveillance, astral surveillance, leg breaking. Toplowtech fucked around with this message at 22:33 on Jun 3, 2013 |
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Jun 3, 2013 22:16
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Bigass Moth posted:Have fun buying Synaptic Boosters, ever, as a troll. Any high-end gear/ware really. Sounds like this isn't the case anyway, but even if it were it would just mean you'd see a lot more troll adept and mage PCs.
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Jun 4, 2013 01:04
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Elephant Ambush posted:Any suggestions?  Meeting Johnson and the next 1-2 hours will be the face talking while the combat team sits and wait, in combat it will be all the non-combat (beside hacker) sitting in the van and wait, and hacker digging some dirt on the matrix and everyone else have to wait for his result. My solution is to have the face do the Johnson meeting via PM/mail before game start or until the Johnson decide to shoot the face for some reason, and then the game start with the team going to do stuff. The face can't really do much in the actual mission unless it involve some negotiation, bribing, etc. Maybe let hacker buy hits for all the simple or non-important hacking to speed things up except matrix combat or important hacking. It still take an awful long time though. Leave hacking for pm/mail after the session if possible. Other wise just handle the info dump as fast as you can so everyone else wait less. Nyaa fucked around with this message at 01:12 on Jun 4, 2013 |
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Jun 4, 2013 01:10
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Does anyone know of any good online resources for Shadowrun information? Something like the SRD for D&D?
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Jun 4, 2013 03:34
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Toplowtech posted:Complicate things (but don't over complicate). These are some good ideas. Thanks. The team hasn't gotten too deep into the underworld yet so I'll keep this stuff in mind. If the team chooses the truck hijack mission they'll get involved with some gang warfare and as a result some of your suggestions should work out well.
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Jun 4, 2013 14:07
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Quick question, what's the downside to using Agents? Is it that if they're on your comlink, they take up a software slot, and if they're elsewhere, they don't use your leet comlink stats? I was fooling around with the hacker-adept concept, and I was doing the BP shuffle and thinking about using Multi-Tasking and Improved Reflexes to basically order Agents to do my hacking for me. It could be argued at this point I should play a technomancer, but I wanted to play around with Adept powers. Possibly MAdept powers, though that's definitely stretching things too thin.
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Jun 6, 2013 04:03
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The downside to agents is that their "skill" in doin' poo poo is their program rating, which gets rather expensive after awhile, and they can't get the other sort of upgrades that hackers proper can, which means they're a) harder and more expensive to get near par, and b) will never actually reach or go over par. They're fantastic for non-hackers, really. The downside to hacker adepts is that there aren't really any adept powers that effect or improve on hacking...like, at all. You're spending points on Magic and not really getting much from it. A non-adept meanwhile spends nothing on Magic and has no problem with getting whichever of the two or three increases to Logic skills (but not the increases to Logic, as that doesn't help) that various bits of ware can provide. MAdept is ABSOLUTELY stretching too thin. MAdept is stretching it thin when it's just an MAdept!
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Jun 6, 2013 06:15
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There's nothing hacking specific, but there is Improved Ability: All the hacking skills. It's ... probably less worth it than grabbing all the +hacking augs. You can totally meld the two concepts, but if I did it, I'd have an Adept designed for combat who also happens to know how to hack, probably not as well as my dedicated hacking character. (Maybe it'd be a social adept, though. Ultimate legwork machine.)
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Jun 6, 2013 06:57
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I mean it's not terrible per say, because Hacking tends to be low cost enough that it can be combined with something else (same with being the Face, really), but Adept in general is an exceptionally expensive way to super specialize in one thing...and hacking is like the one thing they cannot specialize in.
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Jun 6, 2013 08:38
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Origins will see a special release of Fifth Edition: http://www.catalystgamelabs.com/2013/06/04/origins-2013-special-edition-shadowrun-release/
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Jun 6, 2013 20:52
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Rockopolis posted:Quick question, what's the downside to using Agents? Is it that if they're on your comlink, they take up a software slot, and if they're elsewhere, they don't use your leet comlink stats? If they're elsewhere they also take up 1 connection.
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Jun 8, 2013 00:34
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Video interview with Jason Hardy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ls8n4GS4AZU One thing that bugs me is he mentions the first adventure book and says it will have gear in it. Come on, keep the crunch to the crunch books. They keep toting the priority system as quicker in character generation, but then they neglect to mention that the real timesink is deciding what gear you need and now that there are set money levels you need to focus on spending it all even more closely. Bigass Moth fucked around with this message at 14:35 on Jun 8, 2013 |
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Jun 8, 2013 14:28
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