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Korak posted:A giant gently caress you to every 'collector' type of person?
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Jun 1, 2013 02:07
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signalnoise posted:The thing that kills me about it is that, well I forget where I read it, but I read something about the guild bank basically being the equivalent of when you and your friends pool your cards. I did this when I was a kid with Magic, and our collection suddenly filled a duffel bag. It was a huge selection. They're really trying to limit that, and it's bullshit. I think they probably have to. The more power they give the guild tools, the bigger of an issue eve online style scamming is going to be, because ultimately online guild-mates are not your childhood friends.
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Jun 1, 2013 02:10
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I think they probably have to. The more power they give the guild tools, the bigger of an issue eve online style scamming is going to be, because ultimately online guild-mates are not your childhood friends. I suppose this is just a particular problem for me then, because my guildies ARE my childhood friends.
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Jun 1, 2013 02:12
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Veyrall posted:Nah, collectors go apeshit over things with limited availability. It's competitive, non-collector players (such as myself) who despise things with limited availability. I'm in this primarily for the PVP and as long as limited availability things stay out of PVP I am not only okay with it, I actively encourage it. I don't want this to turn into a thing where, just for the sake of example, the Best Deck is some orc rushdown deck. So you go to face a raid boss and you and both of your friends are all running that same orc rushdown deck. It would be really, really boring. With limited availability cards, the faction and reputation system and things like that, it means a group of players will have a more diverse cardset to work with so it will be extremely unlikely for three players to go at a raid with the same deck. But keep that poo poo way the hell out of PVP.
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Jun 1, 2013 02:20
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Korak posted:
When he said this in the podcast, he said some people would shed a tear or be furious with the move. I'm kind of one of them. My initial visceral reaction was to yell "bullshit!" And maybe not combine my two pledges. But in the end, it is what it is. As to the guild bank, I believe the goal is to avoid a situation where someone quits and steals the guildbank.
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Jun 1, 2013 02:39
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I think they probably have to. The more power they give the guild tools, the bigger of an issue eve online style scamming is going to be, because ultimately online guild-mates are not your childhood friends. I disagree, for one simple reason: Cards are not currency. The way the guild bank was described, you could simply "check in" any of your cards, and anyone in the guild could "check out" any card in the guild bank for use in decks which could only be played against other members of the guild. That's not something which has an analogue in real currency. They can't abscond with your cards because they're your cards and all you have to do is revoke the loan and voila, you have them back. No one can steal the guild bank because the guild doesn't actually own anything in it, it's all owned by the individual players.
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Jun 1, 2013 02:41
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Zurai posted:I disagree, for one simple reason: I think this is just a bad business move. Putting in a deck is one thing because it theoretically will eventually prompt playtesters to buy their own copies. If you make infinite sandbox mode (in guild), you'll see a lot of people not doing much else. From a player perspective, I can appreciate that people want all the good things, but I can see a business reason for their decisions. EDIT: Again, I highly recommend listening to this podcast if you want to hear about Dungeon and Raid content. http://ec.libsyn.com/p/3/c/a/3ca29e...ac&c_id=5728845 VVVV I would assume the rewards are non-tradeable. Cory said it would be IMPOSSIBLE to have every card on one account Karnegal fucked around with this message at 02:56 on Jun 1, 2013 |
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Jun 1, 2013 02:44
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Korak posted:A giant gently caress you to every 'collector' type of person? Isn't this what the AH would be for? I mean, if you REALLY want it, I'm sure you could find a way to get it.
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Jun 1, 2013 02:54
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Korak posted:A giant gently caress you to every 'collector' type of person?
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Jun 1, 2013 03:05
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BambooEarpick posted:Isn't this what the AH would be for? I mean, if you REALLY want it, I'm sure you could find a way to get it. It sounded like picking on of the mutually exclusive cards would block your account from obtaining the other card, by any means.
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Jun 1, 2013 03:07
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Some Numbers posted:It sounded like picking on of the mutually exclusive cards would block your account from obtaining the other card, by any means. Yeah. It also sounded like they would be PvE only. Collectors will just adjust and a "full set" will be considered everything but the mutually exclusive cards.
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Jun 1, 2013 03:10
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Some Numbers posted:It sounded like picking on of the mutually exclusive cards would block your account from obtaining the other card, by any means. If that's true then that's unfortunate. I figured for the Arena cards or whatever you could buy from the AH whatever card you didn't choose. As for factions, I thought you'd probably be getting cards from doing quests or grinding rep with them and able to put the reward on the AH if you choose. If your entire account is locked out from a card that'd be,... pretty crappy. That being said, the Kickstarter rewards will never be attainable again so I guess there's precedent for being locked out of cards. Edit: Yeah, PvE only, I imagine. If there were PvP cards that were exclusive that would be terrible.
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Jun 1, 2013 03:13
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Karnegal posted:I think this is just a bad business move. Putting in a deck is one thing because it theoretically will eventually prompt playtesters to buy their own copies. If you make infinite sandbox mode (in guild), you'll see a lot of people not doing much else. From a player perspective, I can appreciate that people want all the good things, but I can see a business reason for their decisions. Again, you could only use decks with guild bank cards in friendly games against guild members. How is that a bad business move? They don't get any money from friendly games against guild members anyway, and the free-to-play business model specifically wants lots of people playing even if 90% of them never spend a single cent on the game. They don't make their money by nickel and diming everyone, they make their money by getting a small percentage of the players to pay tons of money on a consistent basis. This is a win-win for a free to play game: it keeps people around and playing and introduces them to new cards which they can only use in non-tournament, non-dungeon, non-raid gameplay. If they find a card they like which they don't actually own themselves, and they want to do anything with it except friendly games with people in their guild, they have to get their playset off the auction house or from boosters, just like everyone else.
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Jun 1, 2013 03:25
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signalnoise posted:The thing that kills me about it is that, well I forget where I read it, but I read something about the guild bank basically being the equivalent of when you and your friends pool your cards. I did this when I was a kid with Magic, and our collection suddenly filled a duffel bag. It was a huge selection. They're really trying to limit that, and it's bullshit. Well, bear in mind at the end of the day their goal is to sell you more cards. If they let a bank for an entire guild of dozens of anonymous internet strangers work like this they'd have people being able to field top tier competitive decks without spending a dime. The larger the guild got, the fewer cards its members would have to buy. It sucks for people who would have been in the "handful of friends with a duffel bag full of cards" category, but I guess that might be one of those ways in which a digital TCG is worse than a physical one. I suppose if you're dealing with people you'd trust with your black lotus you could just give them your account info and ask them to keep track of what they're borrowing.
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Jun 1, 2013 03:31
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The Moon Monster posted:I suppose if you're dealing with people you'd trust with your black lotus you could just give them your account info and ask them to keep track of what they're borrowing. Yeah I think the way it's going to go is we're going to have a "bank" account that every just knows the info for. That, or make a spreadsheet of who has what rares/legendaries and then make sure everyone has 4 of each common/uncommon.
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Jun 1, 2013 03:43
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What would amuse me is if they do move to a "bind on account" for cards. Would take that whole TCG part to an absurd level. On the plus side selling your entire account would become very profitable.
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Jun 1, 2013 03:55
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I'm pretty sure we'll have a clarification sooner or later so I'm not worried about it for now (I am the kind of person who wants to have 1 of everything but if I can't trade for it then I'll just get over it) Anyway I am really looking forward to the game, I have probably pledged more money than is wise but that's just part of the fun! I'm already enjoying myself just thinking about spreadsheets and sperging out hard over stuff - it's gonna be great!
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Jun 1, 2013 05:57
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I just listened to that podcast Karnegal linked, and Cory Jones talks about an Arena dungeon where there's giant firebreating squirrels vs dinosaurs. You pick a side and get a preconstructed deck depending on what side you play, and as you accumulate "points" (not detailed how you do it) you can buy new Star Players for your team/deck.Cory Jones posted:And then eventually, once you get enough points, you unlock the final Grand Championship and if you win, you get an exclsuive squirrel card. And if you have the squirrel card in your collection - which means you chose the squirrels and played them all the way through - you can NEVER OWN THE EXCLUSIVE CHAMPION DINOSAUR CARD. So you have to make a choice. It will be
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Jun 1, 2013 07:38
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literally impossible
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Lone Goat posted:I just listened to that podcast Karnegal linked, and Cory Jones talks about an Arena dungeon where there's giant firebreating squirrels vs dinosaurs. You pick a side and get a preconstructed deck depending on what side you play, and as you accumulate "points" (not detailed how you do it) you can buy new Star Players for your team/deck. Thanks for quoting this at length. This is what I was referencing. Hieronymous Alloy posted:Yeah. It also sounded like they would be PvE only. This is a good point. If you talk about Magic, no one really considers the 1996 world champion card (of which there is 1) part of a complete collection. Similarly the Garfield proposal and children cards, or the dragon card from the one place in Asia. Realizing this make me feel a little better about the cards. My only real concern is that you won't know the relative quality of cards until it's too late. So, if I go dinosaurs (because they are way cooler than squirrels) and the champion card blows compared to the broken squirrel card, I'm out of luck.
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Jun 1, 2013 08:37
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Karnegal posted:This is a good point. If you talk about Magic, no one really considers the 1996 world champion card (of which there is 1) part of a complete collection. Similarly the Garfield proposal and children cards, or the dragon card from the one place in Asia. Realizing this make me feel a little better about the cards. My only real concern is that you won't know the relative quality of cards until it's too late. So, if I go dinosaurs (because they are way cooler than squirrels) and the champion card blows compared to the broken squirrel card, I'm out of luck. Why would this ever be an issue? SOMEBODY will spoil these cards long before the average player manages to complete the dungeon. If other MMO communities are any indication, any upcoming cards will be datamined and posted on the internet long before the patch drops. And failing that, the World First crowd will have screenshots of the new cards up within hours of release.
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Jun 1, 2013 08:56
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Zonekeeper posted:Why would this ever be an issue? SOMEBODY will spoil these cards long before the average player manages to complete the dungeon. If other MMO communities are any indication, any upcoming cards will be datamined and posted on the internet long before the patch drops. And failing that, the World First crowd will have screenshots of the new cards up within hours of release. The issue I was talking about was the inability to collect 1 of every card. I'm not sure what you're talking about.
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Jun 1, 2013 09:21
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Kakesu posted:To be fair, the free draft includes the boosters used in the draft, so it's $7 (3 boosters + draft fee) plus whatever you win, once a week, for life. If you draft every week, that's $364/year + winnings. Zurai posted:Not trying to dispute the rest of your post, but don't you get to keep the cards you drafted? I know you might not end up with 3 rares out of the deal depending on how the draft goes (maybe you just don't see any rares that are worth using with the other cards you've drafted, etc), but I don't think it's right to just assign the value of the three boosters used in the draft as $0.00, either. If nothing else, with a completely free draft you could just draft towards value and sacrifice the tournament completely. Not that I condone that as a matter of course, but it's absolutely going to happen and it does have an impact on the value of the reward. Yeah, you're right. It's hard to assign a value to those rares, but let's call it $3 (half the value of the boosters because unopened boosters always > the cards inside on average). Call it $550/year. If Hex is popular the premium for the account is very, very likely to be somewhere between 6 months to a year of drafts - $275 to 550. If you don't sell it but do play for 2 years, the second year will always save you exactly $364 + cards. Now let's call the overall value of the extra gold and items DC will drop $1 an hour. Those are pretty generic second/third tier MMO numbers. That means it's worth several hundred a month to a gold farmer, which in turn means it's probably worth several grand. Alternatively, even at $1/hour, a nerd who likes PvE and is good enough at drafting to break even on boosters can pretty much draft for free forever. Sure, tou're betting on the PvE being at least a little worth it, but if you're already putting several hundred dollars into the game you're already betting on Cryptologic knowing what they're doing in the first place.
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Jun 1, 2013 10:07
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Karnegal posted:This is a good point. If you talk about Magic, no one really considers the 1996 world champion card (of which there is 1) part of a complete collection. Similarly the Garfield proposal and children cards, or the dragon card from the one place in Asia. Nobody considers 1996 World Champion to be part of a complete collection because it's sealed in the trophy. On the other hand, there are people who consider Garfield's family cards to be part of a complete collection - I know this because I've seen a genuine Splendid Genesis for sale. (Also someone stole Quinton Hoover's copy of Proposal at PT Tokyo in 1999, but nobody will ever know who that prick was because it's the only copy that isn't in the hands of Garfield and his family.)
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Jun 1, 2013 10:19
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As cool as those particular MTG cards are, none of them are actually legal to play. Comparing them to mutually exclusive cards in Hex that'll work in PvE (and presumably in PvE+PvP cardpool events) is not the most apt comparison.
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Jun 1, 2013 10:30
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Amante posted:As cool as those particular MTG cards are, none of them are actually legal to play. Comparing them to mutually exclusive cards in Hex that'll work in PvE (and presumably in PvE+PvP cardpool events) is not the most apt comparison. You realise that some people collect things to have the collection, right? I used to know a guy who hardly played Magic at all, but wanted to have one of everything.
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Jun 1, 2013 10:44
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So of the 10 thousand-plus backers so far there will be 6,084 copies of Spectral Lotus Garden floating around, generating a new Spectral Lotus each day you log in (plus converting Black Tigers back into Lotus') - because non-backer players will take a while to start showing up I can't help but think that Spectral Lotus' will be really common for a long time...
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Jun 1, 2013 11:04
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That just means that people won't be afraid to use them. If they weren't so common, everyone would just put one playset into their pve decks (because they effectively decrease your minumum deck size even if you never activate them), and then just never use them because it's too expensive.
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Jun 1, 2013 11:24
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Grim posted:So of the 10 thousand-plus backers so far there will be 6,084 copies of Spectral Lotus Garden floating around, generating a new Spectral Lotus each day you log in (plus converting Black Tigers back into Lotus') - because non-backer players will take a while to start showing up I can't help but think that Spectral Lotus' will be really common for a long time... On the other hand, if fifty or a hundred thousand people play Hex, six thousand is a drop in the bucket. Plus a lot of people will stop playing and lose interest or only log in rarely or hoard them for friends and guildmembers and not resell.
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Jun 1, 2013 11:28
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Grim posted:So of the 10 thousand-plus backers so far there will be 6,084 copies of Spectral Lotus Garden floating around, generating a new Spectral Lotus each day you log in (plus converting Black Tigers back into Lotus') - because non-backer players will take a while to start showing up I can't help but think that Spectral Lotus' will be really common for a long time... There's no way they made this game anticipating a measly 10,000 players if they put two million dollars into it. As with all games, pre-orders are a fraction of actual sales and representation, especially with games like this where it's 100% free to play, so a lot of people question why they would bother backing a kickstarter for a free game that doesn't even exist yet. As for my guess, the first 60 days are going to be a sea of spectral lotuses on the auction house. It will slowly die down after that. Keep in mind these spectral lotuses are PVE only, so I can't imagine them being THAT big of a deal, they'll be something people use rarely to get an edge in a hard dungeon. Then way later when really hard content is being created, people will worry about buying them.
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Jun 1, 2013 11:41
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I don't having a small handful of cards faction-restricted is an issue. It's pretty standard RPG/MMO mechanic. And really, if you wanted to, you could just level a second account and make the opposite choices there. As for the guild bank, putting gauntlet decks into the guild bank is just the beginning. I don't know if you'll ever be able to pool cards due to the issues brought up by others and the always random element of human nature, but we've done a lot to make this game as fan-friendly as possible and even the gauntlet test deck feature is well beyond what any other game is doing out there. We're not doing energy to gate your progress, we're allowing the trading and selling of cards. We're going to take further steps to help our players as a whole play the way they want to play and the game will continue to evolve as we are able to see that when HEX launches and we're adding features to it.
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Jun 1, 2013 16:37
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It seems to me that the 1.8m stretch goal is really going to be a stretch based on how much it's going up daily.
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Jun 1, 2013 16:40
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Rhaegar posted:It seems to me that the 1.8m stretch goal is really going to be a stretch based on how much it's going up daily. I think we'll get to 1.8, but honestly I think they should probably show what the other goals are to potentially increase pledges. ( Assuming they actually know what the other stretch goals are. )
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Jun 1, 2013 16:47
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It's possible that we could do that for the final stretch. The next one is a huge lore piece and something I really want to do, but can get kinda expensive so I hope we get there. =D
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Jun 1, 2013 16:55
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Rhaegar posted:It seems to me that the 1.8m stretch goal is really going to be a stretch based on how much it's going up daily. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people start upgrading their pledges on the last day, in addition to the typical final day surge.
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Jun 1, 2013 17:09
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Blinkman987 posted:I don't having a small handful of cards faction-restricted is an issue. It's pretty standard RPG/MMO mechanic. And really, if you wanted to, you could just level a second account and make the opposite choices there. Why not make them champion bound instead of whole account bound? You can only use faction cards with the champion that joined that faction. So people could still collect all the cards, just not use them all on every champion. Also, I believe we'll, at the very least, hit 1.8m. The projections on Kicktraq, not the trends, are showing we'll get anything from 1.7m to 2m, and Paypal will add at least 100k to that, so, yeah, I think we'll hit it. Might not hit any more after that, though.
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Jun 1, 2013 17:17
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BenRGamer posted:Why not make them champion bound instead of whole account bound? You can only use faction cards with the champion that joined that faction. So people could still collect all the cards, just not use them all on every champion. This sounds like a great idea to me. BenRGamer posted:Also, I believe we'll, at the very least, hit 1.8m. I really hope so. The stuff that comes with the 1.8m goal is just too cool. On one hand, I sort of feel like it's just slowed down a lot. On the other hand, this is my first Kickstarter, so I'll take everyone's word for it that these things surge. All Nines fucked around with this message at 18:05 on Jun 1, 2013 |
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Jun 1, 2013 17:51
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I'm probably deluding myself with the fantasy that they'll drop a bomb and say that Alpha access is going to start after the KS ends, right? I mean, I'm so hard up for a new CCG to pick up that I'll probably upgrade my pledge if it helped to get me in sooner.
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Jun 1, 2013 17:59
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BenRGamer posted:Why not make them champion bound instead of whole account bound? You can only use faction cards with the champion that joined that faction. So people could still collect all the cards, just not use them all on every champion. I think you can play any faction cards you earn in any PvE deck. Faction reputation is character bound (so rolling alts will let you get faction with the other guys). The special arena thing seems to be limited time. Like the squirrels vs dinosaurs is a "season 1" thing or something like that. Actual factions work a little differently. Some ot his is covered here: http://hextcg.com/exclamation-points-and-question-marks/
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Jun 1, 2013 18:11
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Tamba posted:That just means that people won't be afraid to use them.
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Jun 1, 2013 18:20
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http://hextcg.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/CoyotleFemaleMage.jpg This is the worst
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